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On April 09 2014 05:21 Broodwurst wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 04:48 Zealously wrote:On April 09 2014 04:29 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 04:12 Zealously wrote:On April 09 2014 03:37 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 02:47 mvdunecats wrote:On April 09 2014 02:35 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 01:52 mvdunecats wrote:On April 09 2014 01:08 Broodwurst wrote:On April 08 2014 23:17 Ragnarork wrote:
[quote]
Well he's made the Ro8 of WCS AM something people outside of America will actually watch :/ He should invite the most popular players, imagine how many people would watch that. What kind of viewership numbers did the Enders Game on Blu-ray tournament draw? no idea, why? Because that's essentially what they did with that tournament. They invited a bunch of established names in the NA scene for most of the participants. If inviting popular NA players is guaranteed to bring in better viewership than a Korean dominated WCS NA, then surely the Enders Game on Blu-ray tournament would proven that. Right? TLDR: Name one reason why we need WCS NA/EU if it's not about players from that region. WCS Europe is played out in Europe, WCS America is played out in America, WCS Korea is played out in Korea. Seems fairly clear-cut. So they could instead name it WCS GSL Studios or WCS ESL studios. Sounds reasonable. Indeed. Doesn't have quite the same ring to it and it doesn't tell you as concisely where and when the tournament is played out, but yes. On April 09 2014 04:38 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 04:22 imrusty269 wrote:On April 09 2014 03:37 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 02:47 mvdunecats wrote:On April 09 2014 02:35 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 01:52 mvdunecats wrote:On April 09 2014 01:08 Broodwurst wrote:On April 08 2014 23:17 Ragnarork wrote:
[quote]
Well he's made the Ro8 of WCS AM something people outside of America will actually watch :/ He should invite the most popular players, imagine how many people would watch that. What kind of viewership numbers did the Enders Game on Blu-ray tournament draw? no idea, why? Because that's essentially what they did with that tournament. They invited a bunch of established names in the NA scene for most of the participants. If inviting popular NA players is guaranteed to bring in better viewership than a Korean dominated WCS NA, then surely the Enders Game on Blu-ray tournament would proven that. Right? I wasn't talking about inviting popular NA players, i was talking about popular players period. People complain that without koreans there aren't enough viewers. By that logic, shouldn't they just invite the most popular players from all around the world (that didn't chose another "region") as that would raise numbers the most? Why even have regions when people only care about the best players worldwide? Just call it "WCS 25, live from Cologne" or whatever. TLDR: Name one reason why we need WCS NA/EU if it's not about players from that region. You're implying that most popular players = best players. Why are players like Polt/Bomber are popular to begin with? Because of their SICK PLAY. To your question : Yes it it about players from that region. There're plenty of them in PL. They just didn't advance to Ro8. TLDR: How many people complaining about WCS NA actually watched the tournament? No I'm not, I'm implying that the most popular players will get the most viewers. What is the purpose of WCS NA if a player that has nothing to do with NA plays in it? You could also call it WCS ballsack. No difference. I know America is probably the worst region out of the three in terms of local talent, but I'm pretty sure ballsacks tend to be worse. So we agree that WCS EU & NA are pointless right now?
How do you go from "WCS AM is not all about homegrown talent" to "WCS AM is useless" without recognizing what a huge leap that is?
WCS AM/EU accomplish everything they're supposed to - they provide battlegrounds for local players, genuine opportunities for local players who are worthy (Scarlett, Nani, Vortix), and they allow local players to watch high profile, high skill SC2 matches live. That's it, mission already accomplished! Not very ambitious, but not everything in the world has to be. They're even fantastic for giving casters much needed practice, exposure, and a day job. Not everybody wants to move to Korea.
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On April 09 2014 05:21 Broodwurst wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 04:48 Zealously wrote:On April 09 2014 04:29 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 04:12 Zealously wrote:On April 09 2014 03:37 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 02:47 mvdunecats wrote:On April 09 2014 02:35 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 01:52 mvdunecats wrote:On April 09 2014 01:08 Broodwurst wrote:On April 08 2014 23:17 Ragnarork wrote:
[quote]
Well he's made the Ro8 of WCS AM something people outside of America will actually watch :/ He should invite the most popular players, imagine how many people would watch that. What kind of viewership numbers did the Enders Game on Blu-ray tournament draw? no idea, why? Because that's essentially what they did with that tournament. They invited a bunch of established names in the NA scene for most of the participants. If inviting popular NA players is guaranteed to bring in better viewership than a Korean dominated WCS NA, then surely the Enders Game on Blu-ray tournament would proven that. Right? TLDR: Name one reason why we need WCS NA/EU if it's not about players from that region. WCS Europe is played out in Europe, WCS America is played out in America, WCS Korea is played out in Korea. Seems fairly clear-cut. So they could instead name it WCS GSL Studios or WCS ESL studios. Sounds reasonable. Indeed. Doesn't have quite the same ring to it and it doesn't tell you as concisely where and when the tournament is played out, but yes. On April 09 2014 04:38 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 04:22 imrusty269 wrote:On April 09 2014 03:37 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 02:47 mvdunecats wrote:On April 09 2014 02:35 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 01:52 mvdunecats wrote:On April 09 2014 01:08 Broodwurst wrote:On April 08 2014 23:17 Ragnarork wrote:
[quote]
Well he's made the Ro8 of WCS AM something people outside of America will actually watch :/ He should invite the most popular players, imagine how many people would watch that. What kind of viewership numbers did the Enders Game on Blu-ray tournament draw? no idea, why? Because that's essentially what they did with that tournament. They invited a bunch of established names in the NA scene for most of the participants. If inviting popular NA players is guaranteed to bring in better viewership than a Korean dominated WCS NA, then surely the Enders Game on Blu-ray tournament would proven that. Right? I wasn't talking about inviting popular NA players, i was talking about popular players period. People complain that without koreans there aren't enough viewers. By that logic, shouldn't they just invite the most popular players from all around the world (that didn't chose another "region") as that would raise numbers the most? Why even have regions when people only care about the best players worldwide? Just call it "WCS 25, live from Cologne" or whatever. TLDR: Name one reason why we need WCS NA/EU if it's not about players from that region. You're implying that most popular players = best players. Why are players like Polt/Bomber are popular to begin with? Because of their SICK PLAY. To your question : Yes it it about players from that region. There're plenty of them in PL. They just didn't advance to Ro8. TLDR: How many people complaining about WCS NA actually watched the tournament? No I'm not, I'm implying that the most popular players will get the most viewers. What is the purpose of WCS NA if a player that has nothing to do with NA plays in it? You could also call it WCS ballsack. No difference. I know America is probably the worst region out of the three in terms of local talent, but I'm pretty sure ballsacks tend to be worse. So we agree that WCS EU & NA are pointless right now?
They aren't.
The WCS Korea champion only won I think 1 out of 3 seasonal finals last year. Dear in Season 3.
The 3 regions are doing exactly what they are meant to do. They are increasing the player pool that we're able to see play at the top level. The seasonal finals and Blizzcon all did a ton to justify the way the format is set up right now, all of them were absolutely great tournaments.
That's the whole point. The format is set up so that it builds up into the best tournament possible. It's been successful in that regard.
Where's the local talent then you might ask. Stuck in Challenger league. The only reason we're not seeing more local talent is because they aren't good enough to make it out of challenger league or past the Koreans that are in premiere. It isn't the format that is crippling them it's simply the disparity in skill level.
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Innovation won season 1 aswell. and Bomber won Season 2 both playing in Korea
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On April 09 2014 02:45 sixfour wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 01:31 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2014 23:21 gold_ wrote:On April 08 2014 20:26 NarutO wrote:On April 08 2014 20:25 gold_ wrote:
Viewer base will continue to drop due to no home town heros to cheer for. I am not bashing the koreans at all, but WCS America should've been at least people LIVING in any part of the Americas only. I personally have stopped watching, Koreans have their own WCS FFS. Polt 1/8 then that actually live in the Americas? :/ Noone would watch if WCS NA was actually NA only. Except Totalbiscuit I'd be an undefined amount more likely to watch it than I am at the moment
I would watch an all WCS AM tournament. This is at least the second time someone in this thread comes with this weird idea that no one would watch an all AM tournament (although boxerfred confused NA with AM). I wonder why people is trying to tell me that I wouldn't watch something that I would watch. And yes, I'm not going to watch the WCS AM Bo8 season 1, because honestly I don't care who wins it. 
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On April 09 2014 05:36 NovaMB wrote:
Innovation won season 1 aswell. and Bomber won Season 2 both playing in Korea
Innovation and Bomber weren't WCS Korea Champions.
Soulkey was WCS Korea's Champion when Innovation Won Season 1 WCS and Maru was WCS Korea's champion when Bomber won Season 2.
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I missed the Champions part.
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On April 09 2014 05:31 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 05:21 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 04:48 Zealously wrote:On April 09 2014 04:29 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 04:12 Zealously wrote:On April 09 2014 03:37 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 02:47 mvdunecats wrote:On April 09 2014 02:35 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 01:52 mvdunecats wrote:On April 09 2014 01:08 Broodwurst wrote:
[quote]
He should invite the most popular players, imagine how many people would watch that. What kind of viewership numbers did the Enders Game on Blu-ray tournament draw? no idea, why? Because that's essentially what they did with that tournament. They invited a bunch of established names in the NA scene for most of the participants. If inviting popular NA players is guaranteed to bring in better viewership than a Korean dominated WCS NA, then surely the Enders Game on Blu-ray tournament would proven that. Right? TLDR: Name one reason why we need WCS NA/EU if it's not about players from that region. WCS Europe is played out in Europe, WCS America is played out in America, WCS Korea is played out in Korea. Seems fairly clear-cut. So they could instead name it WCS GSL Studios or WCS ESL studios. Sounds reasonable. Indeed. Doesn't have quite the same ring to it and it doesn't tell you as concisely where and when the tournament is played out, but yes. On April 09 2014 04:38 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 04:22 imrusty269 wrote:On April 09 2014 03:37 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 02:47 mvdunecats wrote:On April 09 2014 02:35 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 01:52 mvdunecats wrote:On April 09 2014 01:08 Broodwurst wrote:
[quote]
He should invite the most popular players, imagine how many people would watch that. What kind of viewership numbers did the Enders Game on Blu-ray tournament draw? no idea, why? Because that's essentially what they did with that tournament. They invited a bunch of established names in the NA scene for most of the participants. If inviting popular NA players is guaranteed to bring in better viewership than a Korean dominated WCS NA, then surely the Enders Game on Blu-ray tournament would proven that. Right? I wasn't talking about inviting popular NA players, i was talking about popular players period. People complain that without koreans there aren't enough viewers. By that logic, shouldn't they just invite the most popular players from all around the world (that didn't chose another "region") as that would raise numbers the most? Why even have regions when people only care about the best players worldwide? Just call it "WCS 25, live from Cologne" or whatever. TLDR: Name one reason why we need WCS NA/EU if it's not about players from that region. You're implying that most popular players = best players. Why are players like Polt/Bomber are popular to begin with? Because of their SICK PLAY. To your question : Yes it it about players from that region. There're plenty of them in PL. They just didn't advance to Ro8. TLDR: How many people complaining about WCS NA actually watched the tournament? No I'm not, I'm implying that the most popular players will get the most viewers. What is the purpose of WCS NA if a player that has nothing to do with NA plays in it? You could also call it WCS ballsack. No difference. I know America is probably the worst region out of the three in terms of local talent, but I'm pretty sure ballsacks tend to be worse. So we agree that WCS EU & NA are pointless right now? How do you go from "WCS AM is not all about homegrown talent" to "WCS AM is useless" without recognizing what a huge leap that is? WCS AM/EU accomplish everything they're supposed to - they provide battlegrounds for local players, genuine opportunities for local players who are worthy (Scarlett, Nani, Vortix), and they allow local players to watch high profile, high skill SC2 matches live. That's it, mission already accomplished! Not very ambitious, but not everything in the world has to be. They're even fantastic for giving casters much needed practice, exposure, and a day job. Not everybody wants to move to Korea.
It's useless because you could call it anything and still have the same tournament, with the same players and the same results.
There's no point in WCS NA because being from NA has very little to do with the tournament.
Same for EU.
Call it WCS 1 & 2. There, done. There's no fucking difference, "NA" and "EU" are just pointless additions to names that don't mean shit. You could call it WCS REDDIT and it wouldn't mean shit because you don't have to be on reddit.
It's not that the games are pointless, it's just that the environment doesn't mean fuck all.
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On April 09 2014 05:38 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 02:45 sixfour wrote:On April 09 2014 01:31 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2014 23:21 gold_ wrote:On April 08 2014 20:26 NarutO wrote:On April 08 2014 20:25 gold_ wrote:
Viewer base will continue to drop due to no home town heros to cheer for. I am not bashing the koreans at all, but WCS America should've been at least people LIVING in any part of the Americas only. I personally have stopped watching, Koreans have their own WCS FFS. Polt 1/8 then that actually live in the Americas? :/ Noone would watch if WCS NA was actually NA only. Except Totalbiscuit I'd be an undefined amount more likely to watch it than I am at the moment I would watch an all WCS AM tournament. This is at least the second time someone in this thread comes with this weird idea that no one would watch an all AM tournament (although boxerfred confused NA with AM). I wonder why people is trying to tell me that I wouldn't watch something that I would watch. And yes, I'm not going to watch the WCS AM Bo8 season 1, because honestly I don't care who wins it.
If you're not interested in Taeja/Bomber/Polt, then you're not going to be very interested in world finals regardless of what WCS AM looks like (because even if only American talent gets through, they all get stomped in the first round and you tune out after that). Do you understand what that means? Blizzard has nothing at all to gain by appealing to you. Unless you think that changing WCS AM will magically make local players able to compete on a global level within 1-2 seasons (and it won't), they'll be sabotaging world finals AND they won't gain you as a viewer for the most important event anyway!
On April 09 2014 05:43 Broodwurst wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 05:31 pure.Wasted wrote:On April 09 2014 05:21 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 04:48 Zealously wrote:On April 09 2014 04:29 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 04:12 Zealously wrote:On April 09 2014 03:37 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 02:47 mvdunecats wrote:On April 09 2014 02:35 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 01:52 mvdunecats wrote:
[quote]
What kind of viewership numbers did the Enders Game on Blu-ray tournament draw? no idea, why? Because that's essentially what they did with that tournament. They invited a bunch of established names in the NA scene for most of the participants. If inviting popular NA players is guaranteed to bring in better viewership than a Korean dominated WCS NA, then surely the Enders Game on Blu-ray tournament would proven that. Right? TLDR: Name one reason why we need WCS NA/EU if it's not about players from that region. WCS Europe is played out in Europe, WCS America is played out in America, WCS Korea is played out in Korea. Seems fairly clear-cut. So they could instead name it WCS GSL Studios or WCS ESL studios. Sounds reasonable. Indeed. Doesn't have quite the same ring to it and it doesn't tell you as concisely where and when the tournament is played out, but yes. On April 09 2014 04:38 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 04:22 imrusty269 wrote:On April 09 2014 03:37 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 02:47 mvdunecats wrote:On April 09 2014 02:35 Broodwurst wrote:On April 09 2014 01:52 mvdunecats wrote:
[quote]
What kind of viewership numbers did the Enders Game on Blu-ray tournament draw? no idea, why? Because that's essentially what they did with that tournament. They invited a bunch of established names in the NA scene for most of the participants. If inviting popular NA players is guaranteed to bring in better viewership than a Korean dominated WCS NA, then surely the Enders Game on Blu-ray tournament would proven that. Right? I wasn't talking about inviting popular NA players, i was talking about popular players period. People complain that without koreans there aren't enough viewers. By that logic, shouldn't they just invite the most popular players from all around the world (that didn't chose another "region") as that would raise numbers the most? Why even have regions when people only care about the best players worldwide? Just call it "WCS 25, live from Cologne" or whatever. TLDR: Name one reason why we need WCS NA/EU if it's not about players from that region. You're implying that most popular players = best players. Why are players like Polt/Bomber are popular to begin with? Because of their SICK PLAY. To your question : Yes it it about players from that region. There're plenty of them in PL. They just didn't advance to Ro8. TLDR: How many people complaining about WCS NA actually watched the tournament? No I'm not, I'm implying that the most popular players will get the most viewers. What is the purpose of WCS NA if a player that has nothing to do with NA plays in it? You could also call it WCS ballsack. No difference. I know America is probably the worst region out of the three in terms of local talent, but I'm pretty sure ballsacks tend to be worse. So we agree that WCS EU & NA are pointless right now? How do you go from "WCS AM is not all about homegrown talent" to "WCS AM is useless" without recognizing what a huge leap that is? WCS AM/EU accomplish everything they're supposed to - they provide battlegrounds for local players, genuine opportunities for local players who are worthy (Scarlett, Nani, Vortix), and they allow local players to watch high profile, high skill SC2 matches live. That's it, mission already accomplished! Not very ambitious, but not everything in the world has to be. They're even fantastic for giving casters much needed practice, exposure, and a day job. Not everybody wants to move to Korea. It's useless because you could call it anything and still have the same tournament, with the same players and the same results. There's no point in WCS NA because being from NA has very little to do with the tournament. Same for EU. Call it WCS 1 & 2. There, done. There's no fucking difference, "NA" and "EU" are just pointless additions to names that don't mean shit. You could call it WCS REDDIT and it wouldn't mean shit because you don't have to be on reddit. It's not that the games are pointless, it's just that the environment doesn't mean fuck all.
OK, change of tactics.
Yes. It is every bit as stupid as you think it is. Feel free to petition Blizzard to get the name changed.
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On April 09 2014 05:45 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 05:38 BaneRiders wrote:On April 09 2014 02:45 sixfour wrote:On April 09 2014 01:31 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2014 23:21 gold_ wrote:On April 08 2014 20:26 NarutO wrote:On April 08 2014 20:25 gold_ wrote:
Viewer base will continue to drop due to no home town heros to cheer for. I am not bashing the koreans at all, but WCS America should've been at least people LIVING in any part of the Americas only. I personally have stopped watching, Koreans have their own WCS FFS. Polt 1/8 then that actually live in the Americas? :/ Noone would watch if WCS NA was actually NA only. Except Totalbiscuit I'd be an undefined amount more likely to watch it than I am at the moment I would watch an all WCS AM tournament. This is at least the second time someone in this thread comes with this weird idea that no one would watch an all AM tournament (although boxerfred confused NA with AM). I wonder why people is trying to tell me that I wouldn't watch something that I would watch. And yes, I'm not going to watch the WCS AM Bo8 season 1, because honestly I don't care who wins it. If you're not interested in Taeja/Bomber/Polt, then you're not going to be very interested in world finals regardless of what WCS AM looks like (because even if only American talent gets through, they all get stomped in the first round and you tune out after that). Do you understand what that means? Blizzard has nothing at all to gain by appealing to you. Unless you think that changing WCS AM will magically make local players able to compete on a global level within 1-2 seasons (and it won't), they'll be sabotaging world finals AND they won't gain you as a viewer for the most important event anyway!
No, you miss the point. Blizzard has everything to gain by appealing to me. You will watch Bomber if he plays in Korea or AM. I will not. You will always watch, my watching comes with a condition.
World finals will always be there for you my friend, no need to worry about it so much.
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On April 09 2014 05:49 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 05:45 pure.Wasted wrote:On April 09 2014 05:38 BaneRiders wrote:On April 09 2014 02:45 sixfour wrote:On April 09 2014 01:31 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2014 23:21 gold_ wrote:On April 08 2014 20:26 NarutO wrote:On April 08 2014 20:25 gold_ wrote:
Viewer base will continue to drop due to no home town heros to cheer for. I am not bashing the koreans at all, but WCS America should've been at least people LIVING in any part of the Americas only. I personally have stopped watching, Koreans have their own WCS FFS. Polt 1/8 then that actually live in the Americas? :/ Noone would watch if WCS NA was actually NA only. Except Totalbiscuit I'd be an undefined amount more likely to watch it than I am at the moment I would watch an all WCS AM tournament. This is at least the second time someone in this thread comes with this weird idea that no one would watch an all AM tournament (although boxerfred confused NA with AM). I wonder why people is trying to tell me that I wouldn't watch something that I would watch. And yes, I'm not going to watch the WCS AM Bo8 season 1, because honestly I don't care who wins it. If you're not interested in Taeja/Bomber/Polt, then you're not going to be very interested in world finals regardless of what WCS AM looks like (because even if only American talent gets through, they all get stomped in the first round and you tune out after that). Do you understand what that means? Blizzard has nothing at all to gain by appealing to you. Unless you think that changing WCS AM will magically make local players able to compete on a global level within 1-2 seasons (and it won't), they'll be sabotaging world finals AND they won't gain you as a viewer for the most important event anyway! No, you miss the point. Blizzard has everything to gain by appealing to me. You will watch Bomber if he plays in Korea or AM. I will not. You will always watch, my watching comes with a condition. World finals will always be there for you my friend, no need to worry about it so much.
But I won't watch AM without Bomber. See how that works? They lose you but gain me by changing absolutely nothing and doing absolutely no extra work on top of what they've already done. Not only that, but I won't watch world finals matches that are expected curbstomps, either. Soulkey vs. desrow? I'm out. Now just imagine two foreigners end up facing each other, guaranteeing one to go through, while Soulkey is off playing Maru. Then one of the foreigners will place higher than SK/Maru and get more cash. Do you think I can take world finals seriously at that point?
And I dare to imagine Blizzard cares more about Blizzcon viewer numbers than they do run of the mill WCS AM numbers.
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On April 09 2014 05:49 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 05:45 pure.Wasted wrote:On April 09 2014 05:38 BaneRiders wrote:On April 09 2014 02:45 sixfour wrote:On April 09 2014 01:31 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2014 23:21 gold_ wrote:On April 08 2014 20:26 NarutO wrote:On April 08 2014 20:25 gold_ wrote:
Viewer base will continue to drop due to no home town heros to cheer for. I am not bashing the koreans at all, but WCS America should've been at least people LIVING in any part of the Americas only. I personally have stopped watching, Koreans have their own WCS FFS. Polt 1/8 then that actually live in the Americas? :/ Noone would watch if WCS NA was actually NA only. Except Totalbiscuit I'd be an undefined amount more likely to watch it than I am at the moment I would watch an all WCS AM tournament. This is at least the second time someone in this thread comes with this weird idea that no one would watch an all AM tournament (although boxerfred confused NA with AM). I wonder why people is trying to tell me that I wouldn't watch something that I would watch. And yes, I'm not going to watch the WCS AM Bo8 season 1, because honestly I don't care who wins it. If you're not interested in Taeja/Bomber/Polt, then you're not going to be very interested in world finals regardless of what WCS AM looks like (because even if only American talent gets through, they all get stomped in the first round and you tune out after that). Do you understand what that means? Blizzard has nothing at all to gain by appealing to you. Unless you think that changing WCS AM will magically make local players able to compete on a global level within 1-2 seasons (and it won't), they'll be sabotaging world finals AND they won't gain you as a viewer for the most important event anyway! No, you miss the point. Blizzard has everything to gain by appealing to me. You will watch Bomber if he plays in Korea or AM. I will not. You will always watch, my watching comes with a condition. World finals will always be there for you my friend, no need to worry about it so much.
No I'm going to take a different approach.
If you're the kind of fan that says he is a fan but checks out the moment the white guys are eliminated then no, Blizzard DOESN'T gain anything by appealing to you.
Anything of value anyway.
There are fans and then there are quality fans. Appealing to fans by showcasing the quality of the game has a far longer term appeal than appealing to fans because hey this guy that's playing is someone you can relate to.
Remember that Blizzard's ultimate motivation is to give exposure to their game. If your whole argument is that you care more about who is playing the game than the game itself, then you aren't the kind of fan that Blizzard has any real use for in the first place.
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On April 09 2014 05:56 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 05:49 BaneRiders wrote:On April 09 2014 05:45 pure.Wasted wrote:On April 09 2014 05:38 BaneRiders wrote:On April 09 2014 02:45 sixfour wrote:On April 09 2014 01:31 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2014 23:21 gold_ wrote:On April 08 2014 20:26 NarutO wrote:On April 08 2014 20:25 gold_ wrote:
Viewer base will continue to drop due to no home town heros to cheer for. I am not bashing the koreans at all, but WCS America should've been at least people LIVING in any part of the Americas only. I personally have stopped watching, Koreans have their own WCS FFS. Polt 1/8 then that actually live in the Americas? :/ Noone would watch if WCS NA was actually NA only. Except Totalbiscuit I'd be an undefined amount more likely to watch it than I am at the moment I would watch an all WCS AM tournament. This is at least the second time someone in this thread comes with this weird idea that no one would watch an all AM tournament (although boxerfred confused NA with AM). I wonder why people is trying to tell me that I wouldn't watch something that I would watch. And yes, I'm not going to watch the WCS AM Bo8 season 1, because honestly I don't care who wins it. If you're not interested in Taeja/Bomber/Polt, then you're not going to be very interested in world finals regardless of what WCS AM looks like (because even if only American talent gets through, they all get stomped in the first round and you tune out after that). Do you understand what that means? Blizzard has nothing at all to gain by appealing to you. Unless you think that changing WCS AM will magically make local players able to compete on a global level within 1-2 seasons (and it won't), they'll be sabotaging world finals AND they won't gain you as a viewer for the most important event anyway! No, you miss the point. Blizzard has everything to gain by appealing to me. You will watch Bomber if he plays in Korea or AM. I will not. You will always watch, my watching comes with a condition. World finals will always be there for you my friend, no need to worry about it so much. But I won't watch AM without Bomber. See how that works? They lose you but gain me by changing absolutely nothing and doing absolutely no extra work on top of what they've already done. Not only that, but I won't watch world finals matches that are expected curbstomps, either. Soulkey vs. desrow? I'm out. I probably wouldn't even watch Soulkey vs. Vortix. And I dare to imagine Blizzard cares more about Blizzcon viewer numbers than they do run of the mill WCS AM numbers.
But would you watch WCS KR without Bomber?
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Was it ever really a question whether this would happen or not?
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On April 09 2014 05:49 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 05:45 pure.Wasted wrote:On April 09 2014 05:38 BaneRiders wrote:On April 09 2014 02:45 sixfour wrote:On April 09 2014 01:31 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2014 23:21 gold_ wrote:On April 08 2014 20:26 NarutO wrote:On April 08 2014 20:25 gold_ wrote:
Viewer base will continue to drop due to no home town heros to cheer for. I am not bashing the koreans at all, but WCS America should've been at least people LIVING in any part of the Americas only. I personally have stopped watching, Koreans have their own WCS FFS. Polt 1/8 then that actually live in the Americas? :/ Noone would watch if WCS NA was actually NA only. Except Totalbiscuit I'd be an undefined amount more likely to watch it than I am at the moment I would watch an all WCS AM tournament. This is at least the second time someone in this thread comes with this weird idea that no one would watch an all AM tournament (although boxerfred confused NA with AM). I wonder why people is trying to tell me that I wouldn't watch something that I would watch. And yes, I'm not going to watch the WCS AM Bo8 season 1, because honestly I don't care who wins it. If you're not interested in Taeja/Bomber/Polt, then you're not going to be very interested in world finals regardless of what WCS AM looks like (because even if only American talent gets through, they all get stomped in the first round and you tune out after that). Do you understand what that means? Blizzard has nothing at all to gain by appealing to you. Unless you think that changing WCS AM will magically make local players able to compete on a global level within 1-2 seasons (and it won't), they'll be sabotaging world finals AND they won't gain you as a viewer for the most important event anyway! No, you miss the point. Blizzard has everything to gain by appealing to me. You will watch Bomber if he plays in Korea or AM. I will not. You will always watch, my watching comes with a condition. World finals will always be there for you my friend, no need to worry about it so much.
Except organizers have appealed to your demographic in the past and they've gotten abysmal viewership. Again, your demographic doesn't turn up come tournament days.
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On April 09 2014 05:58 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 05:56 pure.Wasted wrote:On April 09 2014 05:49 BaneRiders wrote:On April 09 2014 05:45 pure.Wasted wrote:On April 09 2014 05:38 BaneRiders wrote:On April 09 2014 02:45 sixfour wrote:On April 09 2014 01:31 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2014 23:21 gold_ wrote:On April 08 2014 20:26 NarutO wrote:On April 08 2014 20:25 gold_ wrote:
Viewer base will continue to drop due to no home town heros to cheer for. I am not bashing the koreans at all, but WCS America should've been at least people LIVING in any part of the Americas only. I personally have stopped watching, Koreans have their own WCS FFS. Polt 1/8 then that actually live in the Americas? :/ Noone would watch if WCS NA was actually NA only. Except Totalbiscuit I'd be an undefined amount more likely to watch it than I am at the moment I would watch an all WCS AM tournament. This is at least the second time someone in this thread comes with this weird idea that no one would watch an all AM tournament (although boxerfred confused NA with AM). I wonder why people is trying to tell me that I wouldn't watch something that I would watch. And yes, I'm not going to watch the WCS AM Bo8 season 1, because honestly I don't care who wins it. If you're not interested in Taeja/Bomber/Polt, then you're not going to be very interested in world finals regardless of what WCS AM looks like (because even if only American talent gets through, they all get stomped in the first round and you tune out after that). Do you understand what that means? Blizzard has nothing at all to gain by appealing to you. Unless you think that changing WCS AM will magically make local players able to compete on a global level within 1-2 seasons (and it won't), they'll be sabotaging world finals AND they won't gain you as a viewer for the most important event anyway! No, you miss the point. Blizzard has everything to gain by appealing to me. You will watch Bomber if he plays in Korea or AM. I will not. You will always watch, my watching comes with a condition. World finals will always be there for you my friend, no need to worry about it so much. But I won't watch AM without Bomber. See how that works? They lose you but gain me by changing absolutely nothing and doing absolutely no extra work on top of what they've already done. Not only that, but I won't watch world finals matches that are expected curbstomps, either. Soulkey vs. desrow? I'm out. I probably wouldn't even watch Soulkey vs. Vortix. And I dare to imagine Blizzard cares more about Blizzcon viewer numbers than they do run of the mill WCS AM numbers. But would you watch WCS KR without Bomber?
What is your fascination with Bomber? I watch everything that comes out of Korea, and now I'll be tuning in to WCS AM because it's got amazing Korean talent in it.
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I for one enjoy good games, if that means that my region will get overrun with Koreans looking to make it to the world finals, so be it. If they are the same Koreans who didn't make it in their own regions, then as long as they can beat the players from mine, I don't see why they shouldn't be given a spot.
If native AMs want to make it to the world finals, then perhaps they should start training like it.
@Banerider: Do you realize that you are basically saying that someone native to the NA region deserves to go to college more than an asian kid, whose family came to U.S to make something of themselves, and busts his ass to get good scores on exams? Your logic is flawed as fuck, I'm sorry. If one DESERVES something, then one should get it; race, creed, color, or anything else does NOT FUCKING MATTER.
Like pure.Wasted mentioned - I wouldn't watch a desrow vs soulkey finals... it would be a royal stomp. I'd rather watch someone CAPABALE of making it to the finals, I don't care if they are korean or not.
I can quote over 10 interviews where Koreans talk about how lax it is to play SC2 in Europe and NA. Innovation and Dear come to mind, as they were pretty vocal about how fucking lazy progamers outside of korea are.
TLDR: If you want foreigners in the finals, then tell those foreigners to put in some work.
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On April 09 2014 05:58 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 05:49 BaneRiders wrote:On April 09 2014 05:45 pure.Wasted wrote:On April 09 2014 05:38 BaneRiders wrote:On April 09 2014 02:45 sixfour wrote:On April 09 2014 01:31 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2014 23:21 gold_ wrote:On April 08 2014 20:26 NarutO wrote:On April 08 2014 20:25 gold_ wrote:
Viewer base will continue to drop due to no home town heros to cheer for. I am not bashing the koreans at all, but WCS America should've been at least people LIVING in any part of the Americas only. I personally have stopped watching, Koreans have their own WCS FFS. Polt 1/8 then that actually live in the Americas? :/ Noone would watch if WCS NA was actually NA only. Except Totalbiscuit I'd be an undefined amount more likely to watch it than I am at the moment I would watch an all WCS AM tournament. This is at least the second time someone in this thread comes with this weird idea that no one would watch an all AM tournament (although boxerfred confused NA with AM). I wonder why people is trying to tell me that I wouldn't watch something that I would watch. And yes, I'm not going to watch the WCS AM Bo8 season 1, because honestly I don't care who wins it. If you're not interested in Taeja/Bomber/Polt, then you're not going to be very interested in world finals regardless of what WCS AM looks like (because even if only American talent gets through, they all get stomped in the first round and you tune out after that). Do you understand what that means? Blizzard has nothing at all to gain by appealing to you. Unless you think that changing WCS AM will magically make local players able to compete on a global level within 1-2 seasons (and it won't), they'll be sabotaging world finals AND they won't gain you as a viewer for the most important event anyway! No, you miss the point. Blizzard has everything to gain by appealing to me. You will watch Bomber if he plays in Korea or AM. I will not. You will always watch, my watching comes with a condition. World finals will always be there for you my friend, no need to worry about it so much. Except organizers have appealed to your demographic in the past and they've gotten abysmal viewership. Again, your demographic doesn't turn up come tournament days.
Indeed.
I really don't understand why people are so vehement to argue against this when it's a clear cut fact. And they claim that the majority are the ones who would rather root for the "hometown hero" (BUZZWORDS!!! to make it seem remotely true) rather than the best players. That's objectively false, I'm sorry.
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On April 09 2014 05:56 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 05:49 BaneRiders wrote:On April 09 2014 05:45 pure.Wasted wrote:On April 09 2014 05:38 BaneRiders wrote:On April 09 2014 02:45 sixfour wrote:On April 09 2014 01:31 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2014 23:21 gold_ wrote:On April 08 2014 20:26 NarutO wrote:On April 08 2014 20:25 gold_ wrote:
Viewer base will continue to drop due to no home town heros to cheer for. I am not bashing the koreans at all, but WCS America should've been at least people LIVING in any part of the Americas only. I personally have stopped watching, Koreans have their own WCS FFS. Polt 1/8 then that actually live in the Americas? :/ Noone would watch if WCS NA was actually NA only. Except Totalbiscuit I'd be an undefined amount more likely to watch it than I am at the moment I would watch an all WCS AM tournament. This is at least the second time someone in this thread comes with this weird idea that no one would watch an all AM tournament (although boxerfred confused NA with AM). I wonder why people is trying to tell me that I wouldn't watch something that I would watch. And yes, I'm not going to watch the WCS AM Bo8 season 1, because honestly I don't care who wins it. If you're not interested in Taeja/Bomber/Polt, then you're not going to be very interested in world finals regardless of what WCS AM looks like (because even if only American talent gets through, they all get stomped in the first round and you tune out after that). Do you understand what that means? Blizzard has nothing at all to gain by appealing to you. Unless you think that changing WCS AM will magically make local players able to compete on a global level within 1-2 seasons (and it won't), they'll be sabotaging world finals AND they won't gain you as a viewer for the most important event anyway! No, you miss the point. Blizzard has everything to gain by appealing to me. You will watch Bomber if he plays in Korea or AM. I will not. You will always watch, my watching comes with a condition. World finals will always be there for you my friend, no need to worry about it so much. No I'm going to take a different approach. If you're the kind of fan that says he is a fan but checks out the moment the white guys are eliminated then no, Blizzard DOESN'T gain anything by appealing to you. Anything of value anyway. There are fans and then there are quality fans. Appealing to fans by showcasing the quality of the game has a far longer term appeal than appealing to fans because hey this guy that's playing is someone you can relate to. Remember that Blizzard's ultimate motivation is to give exposure to their game. If your whole argument is that you care more about who is playing the game than the game itself, then you aren't the kind of fans that Blizzard has any real use for in the first place.
I dare say blizzard has good use of all the fans. Your argument about low value and high value fans is probably the most ridiculous thing I have ever read here this forum!! 
Yes I agree with your second point about Blizzards motivation though, Blizzard wants as many fans to their game as they can get (which obviously contradicts your first point). America (all of it) has 900 million potential fans. Korea has 50 million potential fans. Which market do you think is the most valuable to invest in? Wanna conquer the American (all of it) with Bomber, Taeja, Oz and another handful of Koreans? Good luck.
If I want to watch the best Koreans play I can watch WCS KR. If I want to watch the best Europeans play, well there are three in the WCS EU still. I'm very exited about that, but should none of the Europeans make it to the final, then I'm not at all bothered if Stardust or Jjakji or MC wins. For me that doesn't really matter. At least I had fun watching the event all the way from the qualifiers, through the challenger (which was a bit shabby this year, I don't like this format) to the PL. So I'm the kind of fan Blizzard doesn't gain anything from catering to? Yeah right. Gosh.
Oh, and by the way, I need to ask a "quality fan" like yourself, what should I watch if I want to see the best Americans play? I bet quality fans know everything about every scene, don't they? Or are quality fans only experts on the very best starcraft has to offer?
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On April 09 2014 05:59 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 05:58 BaneRiders wrote:On April 09 2014 05:56 pure.Wasted wrote:On April 09 2014 05:49 BaneRiders wrote:On April 09 2014 05:45 pure.Wasted wrote:On April 09 2014 05:38 BaneRiders wrote:On April 09 2014 02:45 sixfour wrote:On April 09 2014 01:31 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2014 23:21 gold_ wrote:On April 08 2014 20:26 NarutO wrote:
[quote]
Polt 1/8 then that actually live in the Americas? :/ Noone would watch if WCS NA was actually NA only. Except Totalbiscuit I'd be an undefined amount more likely to watch it than I am at the moment I would watch an all WCS AM tournament. This is at least the second time someone in this thread comes with this weird idea that no one would watch an all AM tournament (although boxerfred confused NA with AM). I wonder why people is trying to tell me that I wouldn't watch something that I would watch. And yes, I'm not going to watch the WCS AM Bo8 season 1, because honestly I don't care who wins it. If you're not interested in Taeja/Bomber/Polt, then you're not going to be very interested in world finals regardless of what WCS AM looks like (because even if only American talent gets through, they all get stomped in the first round and you tune out after that). Do you understand what that means? Blizzard has nothing at all to gain by appealing to you. Unless you think that changing WCS AM will magically make local players able to compete on a global level within 1-2 seasons (and it won't), they'll be sabotaging world finals AND they won't gain you as a viewer for the most important event anyway! No, you miss the point. Blizzard has everything to gain by appealing to me. You will watch Bomber if he plays in Korea or AM. I will not. You will always watch, my watching comes with a condition. World finals will always be there for you my friend, no need to worry about it so much. But I won't watch AM without Bomber. See how that works? They lose you but gain me by changing absolutely nothing and doing absolutely no extra work on top of what they've already done. Not only that, but I won't watch world finals matches that are expected curbstomps, either. Soulkey vs. desrow? I'm out. I probably wouldn't even watch Soulkey vs. Vortix. And I dare to imagine Blizzard cares more about Blizzcon viewer numbers than they do run of the mill WCS AM numbers. But would you watch WCS KR without Bomber? What is your fascination with Bomber? I watch everything that comes out of Korea, and now I'll be tuning in to WCS AM because it's got amazing Korean talent in it.
Yeah, that is what I thought. You are doubly happy because you get to see good koreans in two tournaments instead of one. Glad for you, enjoy the show!
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On April 09 2014 06:09 KingKayzz wrote:
@Banerider: Do you realize that you are basically saying that someone native to the NA region deserves to go to college more than an asian kid, whose family came to U.S to make something of themselves, and busts his ass to get good scores on exams? Your logic is flawed as fuck, I'm sorry. If one DESERVES something, then one should get it; race, creed, color, or anything else does NOT FUCKING MATTER.
Dude, I want a chance to see WCS AM with, you know Americans, because that would be fun to watch. You can have your world finals with all Koreans, I'm totally fine with that.
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EPT
