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While it isn't totally critical, I wish they'd do the same with Siege Tanks, though I don't mind too much either way.
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On March 20 2014 10:32 xxjcdentonxx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 10:22 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol Any upgrade in Terrran can be a timing window. Terran is the only race out of 3 that has a timing window for an upgrade. You have a timing for combat shield, a timing for stim, a timing for concussion, a timing for +1, a timing for +1 +1...etc. Terran is the only race that can do this, duh? But many games involve a "timing window" and players utilize them regardless of race.
You don't get it. Every upgrade in early to mid game for Terran can be used as a timing window. You can't say the same for toss and zerg. I am not saying Toss and Zergs don't have their own timing window, but they cannot use every upgrade like Terran does for their timing window. Terran is the only race that can do this, and this is a well known fact among Korean progamers who are very strict about optimizing their build orders.
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On March 20 2014 12:46 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 10:32 xxjcdentonxx wrote:On March 20 2014 10:22 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol Any upgrade in Terrran can be a timing window. Terran is the only race out of 3 that has a timing window for an upgrade. You have a timing for combat shield, a timing for stim, a timing for concussion, a timing for +1, a timing for +1 +1...etc. Terran is the only race that can do this, duh? But many games involve a "timing window" and players utilize them regardless of race. You don't get it. Every upgrade in early to mid game for Terran can be used as a timing window. You can't say the same for toss and zerg. I am not saying Toss and Zergs don't have their own timing window, but they cannot use every upgrade like Terran does for their timing window. Terran is the only race that can do this, and this is a well known fact among Korean progamers who are very strict about optimizing their build orders.
What Shield timing do you have appart this gambly play from Bomber in TvZ ?
What real timing do you have with stim ? In TvZ, once you got stim, you "might" put some pressure with your marine and hellion, but you will surely never win anything with that.
1/1 push as terran ? never heard of that sorry. But 1/1 roach timing, I did.
I also heard of Blink allin, based solely on the upgrade Blink, same for Storm, same for Warp Gate with gates-allin.
The only real timing terran might have is 2/2 timing in TvZ if the start ebay quickly, and still, zergs usually get 2/2 before terrans.
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On March 20 2014 11:21 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 10:22 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol Any upgrade in Terrran can be a timing window. Terran is the only race out of 3 that has a timing window for an upgrade. You have a timing for combat shield, a timing for stim, a timing for concussion, a timing for +1, a timing for +1 +1...etc. Terran is the only race that can do this, duh? Following your argument, if we remove healing from medivac, and putting it as an upgrade, il would make a new timing. Still terran would be awfully useless as a race. Removing Hellbat from the unit pool and only making them accessible via hellion upgrade is the same. It sucks. Btw, I don't know if this is sarcasm, but all 3 races use timings, timing on upgrades, on blink, speed, storms, etc.
If you put the medivac healing as an upgrade for Terran, yes it will create a new timing window. The game balance may be fucked, but that's not what we are talking about, is it? We are talking about timing window. Like I said previously, all races have their own timing window, but Terran is the only race who has a timing window for every upgrade.
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On March 20 2014 12:51 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 12:46 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 10:32 xxjcdentonxx wrote:On March 20 2014 10:22 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol Any upgrade in Terrran can be a timing window. Terran is the only race out of 3 that has a timing window for an upgrade. You have a timing for combat shield, a timing for stim, a timing for concussion, a timing for +1, a timing for +1 +1...etc. Terran is the only race that can do this, duh? But many games involve a "timing window" and players utilize them regardless of race. You don't get it. Every upgrade in early to mid game for Terran can be used as a timing window. You can't say the same for toss and zerg. I am not saying Toss and Zergs don't have their own timing window, but they cannot use every upgrade like Terran does for their timing window. Terran is the only race that can do this, and this is a well known fact among Korean progamers who are very strict about optimizing their build orders. What Shield timing do you have appart this gambly play from Bomber in TvZ ?
What real timing do you have with stim ? In TvZ, once you got stim, you "might" put some pressure with your marine and hellion, but you will surely never win anything with that.
1/1 push as terran ? never heard of that sorry. But 1/1 roach timing, I did. I also heard of Blink allin, based solely on the upgrade Blink, same for Storm, same for Warp Gate with gates-allin. The only real timing terran might have is 2/2 timing in TvZ if the start ebay quickly, and still, zergs usually get 2/2 before terrans.
LOL, really....
Must be that all the SC2 games I've listened IN KOREAN commentary have been lies. It is not me making up this; it was theMarine (OGN caster) who commented that Terran is the only race with a timing window for every upgrade.
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I don't understand you... Creating a window by restraining the availability of one tool ?
A timing window is a moment in the game where you have "enough stuff" to deal some damage to the opponent. For exemple in TvP, you have a window of attack at around 10' where the protoss hasn't really much AoE and not enough gate unit to deal with your army, so you have a "timing window" where you can deal damage.
Zerg have a timing window with the 1/1 roach push where the terran hasn't his rax kickin in and is vulnerable to heavy aggression.
Terran also have timing window where they got 3/3 and the zerg is still 2/2, it's a window where their units are a bit stronger than the zerg and they "might" deal some damage. But every race have them, I don't care what korean casters say. Hell, if they say that protoss haven't timing attack, they are utterly wrong.
I think you are looking for another word, but I can't help you here because I don't really see your point.
PS : I still want to know some other "shield timing" beside the weird play Bomber did once, which is really gamble and is pretty mucch autolose vs fast speedgling.
Same, you almost never attack with stim alone, you wait medivac and shield to be finished, even +1 in general if you want to hit a "timing attack".
And please tell me what +1/+1 "timing window" terran have please, instead of "loling", give me an example.
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TLADT24920 Posts
This whole timing window, shouldn't you technically be able to say that a protoss has a timing window for any of their upgrades considering the chronoboost mechanism? Same with blink all-ins, colossi all-in(or w/e they are called, herO used this in game 4 against Polt in IEM) and such?
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On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning
Bunkers have something to say to that 
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On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks.
Terrans need to build armory before Factories can produce Hellbats. "Hit the upgrade button"?????
LOL
LMAO !!!
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Good, now increase the cost of the hellbat
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On March 21 2014 00:22 MagnuMizer wrote:
Good, now increase the cost of the hellbat
By 250Gaz ! But make it shoot 360° and have friendly damage.
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On March 21 2014 00:22 MagnuMizer wrote:
Good, now increase the cost of the hellbat
Yeah because it's way too strong in TvP right.
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If you support this change, then you should probably send Avilo a "Thank You" card.
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On March 21 2014 10:27 Joedaddy wrote:
If you support this change, then you should probably send Avilo a "Thank You" card.
Don't bring up that child, I don't want him hijacking another thread
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On March 20 2014 12:57 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 12:51 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 12:46 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 10:32 xxjcdentonxx wrote:On March 20 2014 10:22 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol Any upgrade in Terrran can be a timing window. Terran is the only race out of 3 that has a timing window for an upgrade. You have a timing for combat shield, a timing for stim, a timing for concussion, a timing for +1, a timing for +1 +1...etc. Terran is the only race that can do this, duh? But many games involve a "timing window" and players utilize them regardless of race. You don't get it. Every upgrade in early to mid game for Terran can be used as a timing window. You can't say the same for toss and zerg. I am not saying Toss and Zergs don't have their own timing window, but they cannot use every upgrade like Terran does for their timing window. Terran is the only race that can do this, and this is a well known fact among Korean progamers who are very strict about optimizing their build orders. What Shield timing do you have appart this gambly play from Bomber in TvZ ?
What real timing do you have with stim ? In TvZ, once you got stim, you "might" put some pressure with your marine and hellion, but you will surely never win anything with that.
1/1 push as terran ? never heard of that sorry. But 1/1 roach timing, I did. I also heard of Blink allin, based solely on the upgrade Blink, same for Storm, same for Warp Gate with gates-allin. The only real timing terran might have is 2/2 timing in TvZ if the start ebay quickly, and still, zergs usually get 2/2 before terrans. LOL, really.... Must be that all the SC2 games I've listened IN KOREAN commentary have been lies. It is not me making up this; it was theMarine (OGN caster) who commented that Terran is the only race with a timing window for every upgrade.
hy·per·bo·le [hahy-pur-buh-lee]
1.
obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2.
an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”
Pretty sure every time Artosis says "best player ever" or "sickest plays", it doesn't mean that it's really the best player at that time or the greatest micro ever seen
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On March 20 2014 12:57 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 12:51 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 12:46 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 10:32 xxjcdentonxx wrote:On March 20 2014 10:22 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol Any upgrade in Terrran can be a timing window. Terran is the only race out of 3 that has a timing window for an upgrade. You have a timing for combat shield, a timing for stim, a timing for concussion, a timing for +1, a timing for +1 +1...etc. Terran is the only race that can do this, duh? But many games involve a "timing window" and players utilize them regardless of race. You don't get it. Every upgrade in early to mid game for Terran can be used as a timing window. You can't say the same for toss and zerg. I am not saying Toss and Zergs don't have their own timing window, but they cannot use every upgrade like Terran does for their timing window. Terran is the only race that can do this, and this is a well known fact among Korean progamers who are very strict about optimizing their build orders. What Shield timing do you have appart this gambly play from Bomber in TvZ ?
What real timing do you have with stim ? In TvZ, once you got stim, you "might" put some pressure with your marine and hellion, but you will surely never win anything with that.
1/1 push as terran ? never heard of that sorry. But 1/1 roach timing, I did. I also heard of Blink allin, based solely on the upgrade Blink, same for Storm, same for Warp Gate with gates-allin. The only real timing terran might have is 2/2 timing in TvZ if the start ebay quickly, and still, zergs usually get 2/2 before terrans. LOL, really.... Must be that all the SC2 games I've listened IN KOREAN commentary have been lies. It is not me making up this; it was theMarine (OGN caster) who commented that Terran is the only race with a timing window for every upgrade.
... maybe you need more practice Korean?
it is more like you can expect to take map control, than "timing attack".
It is more like you can be confident taking a fight after an upgrade timing if you have excellent control, than "timing attack".
Sc2 so far has been mostly "timing attack" than a show of skill. TvT has been a show of talent for over a year, but other match ups seems very "timing attack" with control having much less effect than in BW.
BW terminology also may affect how you understand Korean casters.
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When is this happening? I am getting shit on beecause it takes twice as long to select ONLY hellions or hellbats
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On March 30 2014 06:05 EJK wrote:
When is this happening? I am getting shit on beecause it takes twice as long to select ONLY hellions or hellbats
Nah, I was getting hyped as well when this announcement hit, still I have to wait for this minor change to get implemented... Pretty annoying 
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
This is now live.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/12504561582
With the release of Patch 2.1 earlier this year, a change was made to the way Hellion and Hellbat group selection worked. The change made it so that double clicking or ctrl + clicking a Hellion or Hellbat would select all Hellions and Hellbats on screen. After reviewing feedback from the community, we made the choice last month to revert this change.
We wanted to provide an update and let everyone know that the following change is now live in all regions:
Terran- Double clicking or Ctrl + Clicking a Hellion or Hellbat now selects only Hellions or Hellbats and not both.
Additionally, we republished Overgrowth to fix a small terrain issue on the map. The updated map can be found through matchmaking and the Custom Games list.
Thanks to everyone who provided feedback on these issues!
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On March 20 2014 12:51 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 12:46 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 10:32 xxjcdentonxx wrote:On March 20 2014 10:22 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol Any upgrade in Terrran can be a timing window. Terran is the only race out of 3 that has a timing window for an upgrade. You have a timing for combat shield, a timing for stim, a timing for concussion, a timing for +1, a timing for +1 +1...etc. Terran is the only race that can do this, duh? But many games involve a "timing window" and players utilize them regardless of race. You don't get it. Every upgrade in early to mid game for Terran can be used as a timing window. You can't say the same for toss and zerg. I am not saying Toss and Zergs don't have their own timing window, but they cannot use every upgrade like Terran does for their timing window. Terran is the only race that can do this, and this is a well known fact among Korean progamers who are very strict about optimizing their build orders. What Shield timing do you have appart this gambly play from Bomber in TvZ ? What real timing do you have with stim ? In TvZ, once you got stim, you "might" put some pressure with your marine and hellion, but you will surely never win anything with that. 1/1 push as terran ? never heard of that sorry. But 1/1 roach timing, I did. I also heard of Blink allin, based solely on the upgrade Blink, same for Storm, same for Warp Gate with gates-allin. The only real timing terran might have is 2/2 timing in TvZ if the start ebay quickly, and still, zergs usually get 2/2 before terrans.
You can do the the 1/1 2 Medivac timing after initial hellion/reaper harass (where you get 3 rax before double ebay into starport).
After that, whether you wanna do a 2/2 follow up depends on whether your ahead or not.
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EPT
