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Our initial thinking with this change was to allow for more consistent control across units that can exist in different modes, such as Siege Tanks and Vikings. While we realize that Hellbats and Hellions require an upgrade to change modes, we still felt at the time that the behavior was similar enough to warrant a change. After monitoring the feedback we’ve received on this change, we’ve decided to revert this change in a future update.
Thank you to everyone who offered constructive posts detailing their opinions on this change.
from battlenet forum us
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11364496425?page=9#174
It seems we will get back to separated hellion/hellbat selection.
The issue was with a recent patch when you double clicked on a hellion it will select both surrounding hellions and hellbats. This will be revert back to only hellion or only hellbat soon.
I know some mech players that will be happy about that !
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That's a good decision. I support it.
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proof they do listen. good revert.
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United States4126 Posts
I'm glad they reverted the change. It was so weird having hellbats/hellions considered the same unit by the ui.
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Hurray! I didn't doubt they would change it back; seems like the wait is [almost] over. Back to more hellion harass and aggressive/fast-paced games.
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And also thanks to avilo for spamming the subject on Bnet forum  . For once it seems to have been useful.
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I'm glad about this. Mech4lyf
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Uh, finally! It's been really shitty to separate them manually!
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Thank god. This was so annoying.
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Jokes on them, I always used hellions over hellbats anyway
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Russian Federation394 Posts
recently I was quite surprised when dropping hellions + hellbats instead of 2 hellbats. my brain just exploded, could not load the hellbats only :O realized a bit later
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Sensible, logical change. Surprised it is being made.
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On March 19 2014 18:59 RandomPlayer wrote:
recently I was quite surprised when dropping hellions + hellbats instead of 2 hellbats. my brain just exploded, could not load the hellbats only :O realized a bit later
always grab one hellbat first then 2 hellions. Drop the hellbat and hope they notice it and pull away the workers, then let the roasting begin with hellions dropped behind lined workers. One of the few things that get better the more advanced your opponent is.
On topic glad they revert it, since I always use both types on different positions in a battle.
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Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning
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Meanwhile in other balance issues...........
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Good, it's annoying as hell trying to split off hellions to go harass (ctrl click their icon currently selects both).
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Oh I thought they were reverting the hellbat nerf lol but this is a good decision. I almost wish they would slightly buff the hellbat again because they really nerfed it into non-existence for awhile. But I don't think it's necessary.
I still think they should consider making Time Warp an upgrade at the Twilight Council or Cybernetics Core. This would slow down the blink timing with TimeWarp that makes Blink builds in PvT and PvZ so strong. Since Blink is normally timed to line up with Warp Gate research it would function the same on either tech building. You couldn't research TimeWarp while Warpgate or Blink was going on so it would either slow down the timing, or nerf the Blink play if they decide to attack without TimeWarp. But would still allow the P to get TimeWarp for later on in the match, effectively nerfing the early-game utility of the MSC.
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oh blizzard u make me laugh
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You're welcome. 
Finally, my mech brothers have been freed! Never again shall we be held down by arbitrary interface changes that allow us to not select our units properly!
Now if only they listen about swarmhosts design and Protoss
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On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning
Not the first time they reverted a thing no ? Fungal i think ? Wasn't there something else ?
On March 20 2014 01:24 synd wrote:
Meanwhile in other balance issues...........
Meanwhile in neverhappyland...
On topic. I don't understand this. (i don't play Terran). Does that mean hellions and hellbat are in the same "tabulation" group ?
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On March 20 2014 01:35 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning Not the first time they reverted a thing no ? Fungal i think ? Wasn't there something else ? Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:24 synd wrote:
Meanwhile in other balance issues........... Meanwhile in neverhappyland... On topic. I don't understand this. (i don't play Terran). Does that mean hellions and hellbat are in the same "tabulation" group ?
fungal had a change that was reverted in a ptr, i don't think it was ever officially live.
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On March 20 2014 01:41 Rowrin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:35 FFW_Rude wrote:On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning Not the first time they reverted a thing no ? Fungal i think ? Wasn't there something else ? On March 20 2014 01:24 synd wrote:
Meanwhile in other balance issues........... Meanwhile in neverhappyland... On topic. I don't understand this. (i don't play Terran). Does that mean hellions and hellbat are in the same "tabulation" group ? fungal had a change that was reverted in a ptr, i don't think it was ever officially live.
Oh ok. Thanks 
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On March 20 2014 01:35 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning Not the first time they reverted a thing no ? Fungal i think ? Wasn't there something else ? Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:24 synd wrote:
Meanwhile in other balance issues........... Meanwhile in neverhappyland... On topic. I don't understand this. (i don't play Terran). Does that mean hellions and hellbat are in the same "tabulation" group ?
Apparently, yes. Considered as the same unit. I guess this revert is a punch in the face of all the whiners saying blizzard never listens to players.
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Oh wow. I never knew that. Always assumed that they were two different types of unit for tab groups. Because siege tanks needs to be tabbed for siege / unsiege no ? Or is it the same ?
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YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
This shit was so annoying.
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On March 20 2014 01:35 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning Not the first time they reverted a thing no ? Fungal i think ? Wasn't there something else ?
If we include the beta patches, the hydra attack speed buff is actually a reversion of a beta patch 5 nerf. Also, bunker build time changes have been reverted 2-3 times.
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On March 20 2014 01:35 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning Not the first time they reverted a thing no ? Fungal i think ? Wasn't there something else ? Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:24 synd wrote:
Meanwhile in other balance issues........... Meanwhile in neverhappyland... On topic. I don't understand this. (i don't play Terran). Does that mean hellions and hellbat are in the same "tabulation" group ?
Yeah, they're on the same tab when in a group. Just checked--it's both for double clicking in game field and ctrl clicking the icons, where you select all hellions and hellbats. I don't know if Blizzard is changing the tab, or just making it so you can double/ctrl click and get only hellions or hellbats.
FFW, siege tanks are same tab.
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I see how it is, Blizzard.. buff Terran but hang the other races out to dry. I still want to be able to select my HT with storm and without storm separately.
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On March 20 2014 01:49 FFW_Rude wrote:
Oh wow. I never knew that. Always assumed that they were two different types of unit for tab groups. Because siege tanks needs to be tabbed for siege / unsiege no ? Or is it the same ?
It's the same. The hotkey for unsiege is different from the hotkey for siege. The reason why you tab over to tanks is because they're lower on the ability tab (bottom right) priority than most other units. I think it goes ghosts > bio > thors > tanks. This is why the old practice of separating control groups by types of units still has some merit. Tabbing is just a wasted action.
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bring back the warhound... those mutas and blink stalkers are making me crazy...
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If you play mech it's actually quite useful because you can have a separate group of Hellions to harass mineral lines. Right now it just selects all your Hellions and Hellbats together as if they're 1 unit type. Annoying as hell.
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On March 20 2014 01:35 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning Not the first time they reverted a thing no ? Fungal i think ? Wasn't there something else ? Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:24 synd wrote:
Meanwhile in other balance issues........... Meanwhile in neverhappyland... On topic. I don't understand this. (i don't play Terran). Does that mean hellions and hellbat are in the same "tabulation" group ?
The Thor change where there was no mana cost for strike cannon and they started stun locking immortals. They reverted that one and then removed that dumb ability in hots. Stupid stun lock damage dump. It's like if forcefields were also on fire.
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On March 20 2014 01:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:35 FFW_Rude wrote:On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning Not the first time they reverted a thing no ? Fungal i think ? Wasn't there something else ? On March 20 2014 01:24 synd wrote:
Meanwhile in other balance issues........... Meanwhile in neverhappyland... On topic. I don't understand this. (i don't play Terran). Does that mean hellions and hellbat are in the same "tabulation" group ? It's like if forcefields were also on fire.
I like the way you think man, offensive forcefields! Forcefield in them workers and watch them cook to death, where do you get these ideas? I hope it's at the Blizzard HQ breakfast meetings?
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I found this to be really annoying, considering they move at drastically different speeds. When I control-click a hellion, I want to control only hellions, not hellbats. I don't know why they had this in the first place. It's like ctrl-clicking a zergling and selecting all lings and banelings; what a nightmare.
Maybe the good folks at Blizzard are actually trying to play Terran for the first time since beta battle reports and realizing how stupid the race plays sometimes. Something like this shouldn't have even been an issue in the first place - they should also do the same for vikings that are flying vs ones that are landed. Thors are ok, because they don't overlap like vikings can, and still move at the same speed no matter the state. Tanks are fine, too, because you're not going to miss-micro a unit that can't move.
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On March 20 2014 01:35 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning Not the first time they reverted a thing no ? Fungal i think ? Wasn't there something else ? Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:24 synd wrote:
Meanwhile in other balance issues........... Meanwhile in neverhappyland... On topic. I don't understand this. (i don't play Terran). Does that mean hellions and hellbat are in the same "tabulation" group ?
Well, comparing it to Hell freezing over may have been a little extreme, but it certainly is a rarity. Also props to the guy who saw the hydralisk "revert to beta" stat O_O
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On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
Kon-Tiki, meet Bunker.
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they listened to the community and acted accordingly in a well timed fashion.
this can only be good, even snide comments aren't necessary.
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On March 20 2014 02:03 Anlo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:55 Plansix wrote:On March 20 2014 01:35 FFW_Rude wrote:On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning Not the first time they reverted a thing no ? Fungal i think ? Wasn't there something else ? On March 20 2014 01:24 synd wrote:
Meanwhile in other balance issues........... Meanwhile in neverhappyland... On topic. I don't understand this. (i don't play Terran). Does that mean hellions and hellbat are in the same "tabulation" group ? It's like if forcefields were also on fire. I like the way you think man, offensive forcefields! Forcefield in them workers and watch them cook to death, where do you get these ideas? I hope it's at the Blizzard HQ breakfast meetings?
I think the question is where do Blizzard get the ideas? Some of them are so ridiculous it's dumbfounding. Also, fungal growth was pretty much this before the projectile - a forcefield that's on fire. Only thing is it didn't do 250mm strike-cannon damage. When you stun-lock a large unit like an immortal or an archon it acts like a forcefield for lack of a better description.
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On March 20 2014 02:06 Greendotz wrote:Kon-Tiki, meet Bunker.
Still disappointed that they never went with the Incontrol idea of the bunkers becoming worth more overtime, such builds! Build them at 2 min, salvage at 15 min to have enough mins to make 5 Thors, such a build!
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On March 20 2014 02:08 dUTtrOACh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 02:03 Anlo wrote:On March 20 2014 01:55 Plansix wrote:On March 20 2014 01:35 FFW_Rude wrote:On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning Not the first time they reverted a thing no ? Fungal i think ? Wasn't there something else ? On March 20 2014 01:24 synd wrote:
Meanwhile in other balance issues........... Meanwhile in neverhappyland... On topic. I don't understand this. (i don't play Terran). Does that mean hellions and hellbat are in the same "tabulation" group ? It's like if forcefields were also on fire. I like the way you think man, offensive forcefields! Forcefield in them workers and watch them cook to death, where do you get these ideas? I hope it's at the Blizzard HQ breakfast meetings? I think the question is where do Blizzard get the ideas? Some of them are so ridiculous it's dumbfounding. Also, fungal growth was pretty much this before the projectile - a forcefield that's on fire. Only thing is it didn't do 250mm strike-cannon damage. When you stun-lock a large unit like an immortal or an archon it acts like a forcefield for lack of a better description.
Except it took one click and the immortal died. It would be like a force field, that is on fire and you only need one trap a unit in the open. Force fields at least require you to pin the unit in some way and are made of cool, soothing glass.
It was a shitty, dumb ability and I'm glad it's gone.
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The original Strike Cannons were so game-breakingly stupid lol. A unit that does 70 damage attacks but can also one shot kill its direct hard counter....
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On March 20 2014 02:13 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 02:08 dUTtrOACh wrote:On March 20 2014 02:03 Anlo wrote:On March 20 2014 01:55 Plansix wrote:On March 20 2014 01:35 FFW_Rude wrote:On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning Not the first time they reverted a thing no ? Fungal i think ? Wasn't there something else ? On March 20 2014 01:24 synd wrote:
Meanwhile in other balance issues........... Meanwhile in neverhappyland... On topic. I don't understand this. (i don't play Terran). Does that mean hellions and hellbat are in the same "tabulation" group ? It's like if forcefields were also on fire. I like the way you think man, offensive forcefields! Forcefield in them workers and watch them cook to death, where do you get these ideas? I hope it's at the Blizzard HQ breakfast meetings? I think the question is where do Blizzard get the ideas? Some of them are so ridiculous it's dumbfounding. Also, fungal growth was pretty much this before the projectile - a forcefield that's on fire. Only thing is it didn't do 250mm strike-cannon damage. When you stun-lock a large unit like an immortal or an archon it acts like a forcefield for lack of a better description. Except it took one click and the immortal died. It would be like a force field, that is on fire and you only need one trap a unit in the open. Force fields at least require you to pin the unit in some way and are made of cool, soothing glass. It was a shitty, dumb ability and I'm glad it's gone.
As am I. Massing thors is pretty much the lamest way to play terran.
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On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning
Exactly my thoughts..
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sounds great so many games this select all hellion and hellbat by your rally point then having to deselect every single hellbat before sending away the harass hellions
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TLADT24920 Posts
I'm not sure why they would group them together in the first place tbh. I mean, they are 'different' units imo so it seems odd but it's good that they reverted the change
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Yeh ! no more wtfcking brainfart while trying to runby with hellions :D
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It makes sense, I like better this change (Well, I suppose that's why they made it xD)
Well done, blizzard ^^
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Nice ... Please fix protoss now.
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So if i understand right, after this revert, control-clicking a hellion or hellbat will select only hellions or hellbats, instead of both?
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On March 20 2014 03:22 Lobotomist wrote:
So if i understand right, after this revert, control-clicking a hellion or hellbat will select only hellions or hellbats, instead of both?
Yes. :D
In other news, I thought that this was gonna be a balance thing.
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THANK YOU! fucking hated this when meching
On March 20 2014 02:25 MorroW wrote:sounds great so many games this select all hellion and hellbat by your rally point then having to deselect every single hellbat before sending away the harass hellions
exactly
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Finally Geez. Super annoying.
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Very nice change indeed. Gotta keep em separated.
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I'm also still kind of annoyed by Mothership Core taking priority over Sentries, there were complaints in the Beta, do others still feel this way? Or do you like it more the way it is now?
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Oh wow, very good they changed it back. It's unbelievable the change got through in the first place though ):
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On March 20 2014 02:24 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning Exactly my thoughts..
really? do you not remember bunkers?
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I don't know what to think of it. It has both ups and downs.
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Approve - deffinitely..
Next - tab out SHosts that are not from those who are burrowed 
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On March 20 2014 06:54 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 02:24 geokilla wrote:On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning Exactly my thoughts.. really? do you not remember bunkers?
Or Rax build times.
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David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks.
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On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks.
No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies.
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On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning
My thoughts exactly, never thought I would see this with their stubbornness.
And Hell freezing over is pretty bad for their Diablo franchise I feel, we'll have to wait and see how this plays out.
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On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies.
It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats.
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I never noticed the hellbat hellion thing because I don't mech, but its not hard to see how super annoying that must have been.
Sort of off the original topic, but when it comes to terran caster units, am I the only one who despises the fact that ghosts and ravens take top priority? When I'm in the late game and rallying across the map, its not always practical to hotkey the new units; I use a lot of box select in these situations and I cant even begin to tell you how many fights Ive lost (vs P especially) because I box selected and went to stim into the army only to find that I caught a ghost, cast emp, and just move commanded a chunk of units into death. Same thing with the raven. Also becomes an issue when trying to run away, its just not good. I wish the casters were lower priority...I think the logic for being the way it is, is that they have powerful spells so you want to be able to box them and quickly use the spells. But for me, playing bio terran is really more about your core units than it is the casters, I would never box to select them... anyone else deal with this?
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On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats.
It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol
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On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol
Stupid Question: What are you talking about, (Hellbats do require an upgrade, Transformation Servos).
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Good change, much needed. So annoying to have to shift-click hellbats out of my hellion control group!
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On March 20 2014 10:02 xxjcdentonxx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol Stupid Question: What are you talking about, (Hellbats do require an upgrade, Transformation Servos).
You can creat both from the factory without Transformation Servos. This guy want to remove Hellbat from the factory and getting them only via the upgrade.
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I understand the idea behind trying to make it more consistent between vikings/siege tanks etc but it was a pain and I'm glad it's going back, it was almost like making zerglings and banelings be the same unit selection because they come from the zergling, they just require completely different control.
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On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol
Any upgrade in Terrran can be a timing window. Terran is the only race out of 3 that has a timing window for an upgrade. You have a timing for combat shield, a timing for stim, a timing for concussion, a timing for +1, a timing for +1 +1...etc. Terran is the only race that can do this, duh?
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On March 20 2014 10:22 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol Any upgrade in Terrran can be a timing window. Terran is the only race out of 3 that has a timing window for an upgrade. You have a timing for combat shield, a timing for stim, a timing for concussion, a timing for +1, a timing for +1 +1...etc. Terran is the only race that can do this, duh?
But many games involve a "timing window" and players utilize them regardless of race.
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On March 20 2014 10:22 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol Any upgrade in Terrran can be a timing window. Terran is the only race out of 3 that has a timing window for an upgrade. You have a timing for combat shield, a timing for stim, a timing for concussion, a timing for +1, a timing for +1 +1...etc. Terran is the only race that can do this, duh?
Following your argument, if we remove healing from medivac, and putting it as an upgrade, il would make a new timing. Still terran would be awfully useless as a race.
Removing Hellbat from the unit pool and only making them accessible via hellion upgrade is the same. It sucks.
Btw, I don't know if this is sarcasm, but all 3 races use timings, timing on upgrades, on blink, speed, storms, etc.
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And a big thank you to AVILO for bringing this to devs attention.
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While it isn't totally critical, I wish they'd do the same with Siege Tanks, though I don't mind too much either way.
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On March 20 2014 10:32 xxjcdentonxx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 10:22 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol Any upgrade in Terrran can be a timing window. Terran is the only race out of 3 that has a timing window for an upgrade. You have a timing for combat shield, a timing for stim, a timing for concussion, a timing for +1, a timing for +1 +1...etc. Terran is the only race that can do this, duh? But many games involve a "timing window" and players utilize them regardless of race.
You don't get it. Every upgrade in early to mid game for Terran can be used as a timing window. You can't say the same for toss and zerg. I am not saying Toss and Zergs don't have their own timing window, but they cannot use every upgrade like Terran does for their timing window. Terran is the only race that can do this, and this is a well known fact among Korean progamers who are very strict about optimizing their build orders.
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On March 20 2014 12:46 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 10:32 xxjcdentonxx wrote:On March 20 2014 10:22 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol Any upgrade in Terrran can be a timing window. Terran is the only race out of 3 that has a timing window for an upgrade. You have a timing for combat shield, a timing for stim, a timing for concussion, a timing for +1, a timing for +1 +1...etc. Terran is the only race that can do this, duh? But many games involve a "timing window" and players utilize them regardless of race. You don't get it. Every upgrade in early to mid game for Terran can be used as a timing window. You can't say the same for toss and zerg. I am not saying Toss and Zergs don't have their own timing window, but they cannot use every upgrade like Terran does for their timing window. Terran is the only race that can do this, and this is a well known fact among Korean progamers who are very strict about optimizing their build orders.
What Shield timing do you have appart this gambly play from Bomber in TvZ ?
What real timing do you have with stim ? In TvZ, once you got stim, you "might" put some pressure with your marine and hellion, but you will surely never win anything with that.
1/1 push as terran ? never heard of that sorry. But 1/1 roach timing, I did.
I also heard of Blink allin, based solely on the upgrade Blink, same for Storm, same for Warp Gate with gates-allin.
The only real timing terran might have is 2/2 timing in TvZ if the start ebay quickly, and still, zergs usually get 2/2 before terrans.
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On March 20 2014 11:21 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 10:22 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol Any upgrade in Terrran can be a timing window. Terran is the only race out of 3 that has a timing window for an upgrade. You have a timing for combat shield, a timing for stim, a timing for concussion, a timing for +1, a timing for +1 +1...etc. Terran is the only race that can do this, duh? Following your argument, if we remove healing from medivac, and putting it as an upgrade, il would make a new timing. Still terran would be awfully useless as a race. Removing Hellbat from the unit pool and only making them accessible via hellion upgrade is the same. It sucks. Btw, I don't know if this is sarcasm, but all 3 races use timings, timing on upgrades, on blink, speed, storms, etc.
If you put the medivac healing as an upgrade for Terran, yes it will create a new timing window. The game balance may be fucked, but that's not what we are talking about, is it? We are talking about timing window. Like I said previously, all races have their own timing window, but Terran is the only race who has a timing window for every upgrade.
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On March 20 2014 12:51 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 12:46 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 10:32 xxjcdentonxx wrote:On March 20 2014 10:22 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol Any upgrade in Terrran can be a timing window. Terran is the only race out of 3 that has a timing window for an upgrade. You have a timing for combat shield, a timing for stim, a timing for concussion, a timing for +1, a timing for +1 +1...etc. Terran is the only race that can do this, duh? But many games involve a "timing window" and players utilize them regardless of race. You don't get it. Every upgrade in early to mid game for Terran can be used as a timing window. You can't say the same for toss and zerg. I am not saying Toss and Zergs don't have their own timing window, but they cannot use every upgrade like Terran does for their timing window. Terran is the only race that can do this, and this is a well known fact among Korean progamers who are very strict about optimizing their build orders. What Shield timing do you have appart this gambly play from Bomber in TvZ ?
What real timing do you have with stim ? In TvZ, once you got stim, you "might" put some pressure with your marine and hellion, but you will surely never win anything with that.
1/1 push as terran ? never heard of that sorry. But 1/1 roach timing, I did. I also heard of Blink allin, based solely on the upgrade Blink, same for Storm, same for Warp Gate with gates-allin. The only real timing terran might have is 2/2 timing in TvZ if the start ebay quickly, and still, zergs usually get 2/2 before terrans.
LOL, really....
Must be that all the SC2 games I've listened IN KOREAN commentary have been lies. It is not me making up this; it was theMarine (OGN caster) who commented that Terran is the only race with a timing window for every upgrade.
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I don't understand you... Creating a window by restraining the availability of one tool ?
A timing window is a moment in the game where you have "enough stuff" to deal some damage to the opponent. For exemple in TvP, you have a window of attack at around 10' where the protoss hasn't really much AoE and not enough gate unit to deal with your army, so you have a "timing window" where you can deal damage.
Zerg have a timing window with the 1/1 roach push where the terran hasn't his rax kickin in and is vulnerable to heavy aggression.
Terran also have timing window where they got 3/3 and the zerg is still 2/2, it's a window where their units are a bit stronger than the zerg and they "might" deal some damage. But every race have them, I don't care what korean casters say. Hell, if they say that protoss haven't timing attack, they are utterly wrong.
I think you are looking for another word, but I can't help you here because I don't really see your point.
PS : I still want to know some other "shield timing" beside the weird play Bomber did once, which is really gamble and is pretty mucch autolose vs fast speedgling.
Same, you almost never attack with stim alone, you wait medivac and shield to be finished, even +1 in general if you want to hit a "timing attack".
And please tell me what +1/+1 "timing window" terran have please, instead of "loling", give me an example.
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TLADT24920 Posts
This whole timing window, shouldn't you technically be able to say that a protoss has a timing window for any of their upgrades considering the chronoboost mechanism? Same with blink all-ins, colossi all-in(or w/e they are called, herO used this in game 4 against Polt in IEM) and such?
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On March 20 2014 01:22 Kon-Tiki wrote:
Blizzard reverted a change? In SC2?
In other news, Hell froze over this morning
Bunkers have something to say to that
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On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks.
Terrans need to build armory before Factories can produce Hellbats. "Hit the upgrade button"?????
LOL
LMAO !!!
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Good, now increase the cost of the hellbat
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On March 21 2014 00:22 MagnuMizer wrote:
Good, now increase the cost of the hellbat
By 250Gaz ! But make it shoot 360° and have friendly damage.
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On March 21 2014 00:22 MagnuMizer wrote:
Good, now increase the cost of the hellbat
Yeah because it's way too strong in TvP right.
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If you support this change, then you should probably send Avilo a "Thank You" card.
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On March 21 2014 10:27 Joedaddy wrote:
If you support this change, then you should probably send Avilo a "Thank You" card.
Don't bring up that child, I don't want him hijacking another thread
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On March 20 2014 12:57 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 12:51 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 12:46 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 10:32 xxjcdentonxx wrote:On March 20 2014 10:22 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol Any upgrade in Terrran can be a timing window. Terran is the only race out of 3 that has a timing window for an upgrade. You have a timing for combat shield, a timing for stim, a timing for concussion, a timing for +1, a timing for +1 +1...etc. Terran is the only race that can do this, duh? But many games involve a "timing window" and players utilize them regardless of race. You don't get it. Every upgrade in early to mid game for Terran can be used as a timing window. You can't say the same for toss and zerg. I am not saying Toss and Zergs don't have their own timing window, but they cannot use every upgrade like Terran does for their timing window. Terran is the only race that can do this, and this is a well known fact among Korean progamers who are very strict about optimizing their build orders. What Shield timing do you have appart this gambly play from Bomber in TvZ ?
What real timing do you have with stim ? In TvZ, once you got stim, you "might" put some pressure with your marine and hellion, but you will surely never win anything with that.
1/1 push as terran ? never heard of that sorry. But 1/1 roach timing, I did. I also heard of Blink allin, based solely on the upgrade Blink, same for Storm, same for Warp Gate with gates-allin. The only real timing terran might have is 2/2 timing in TvZ if the start ebay quickly, and still, zergs usually get 2/2 before terrans. LOL, really.... Must be that all the SC2 games I've listened IN KOREAN commentary have been lies. It is not me making up this; it was theMarine (OGN caster) who commented that Terran is the only race with a timing window for every upgrade.
hy·per·bo·le [hahy-pur-buh-lee]
1.
obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2.
an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”
Pretty sure every time Artosis says "best player ever" or "sickest plays", it doesn't mean that it's really the best player at that time or the greatest micro ever seen
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On March 20 2014 12:57 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 12:51 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 12:46 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 10:32 xxjcdentonxx wrote:On March 20 2014 10:22 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol Any upgrade in Terrran can be a timing window. Terran is the only race out of 3 that has a timing window for an upgrade. You have a timing for combat shield, a timing for stim, a timing for concussion, a timing for +1, a timing for +1 +1...etc. Terran is the only race that can do this, duh? But many games involve a "timing window" and players utilize them regardless of race. You don't get it. Every upgrade in early to mid game for Terran can be used as a timing window. You can't say the same for toss and zerg. I am not saying Toss and Zergs don't have their own timing window, but they cannot use every upgrade like Terran does for their timing window. Terran is the only race that can do this, and this is a well known fact among Korean progamers who are very strict about optimizing their build orders. What Shield timing do you have appart this gambly play from Bomber in TvZ ?
What real timing do you have with stim ? In TvZ, once you got stim, you "might" put some pressure with your marine and hellion, but you will surely never win anything with that.
1/1 push as terran ? never heard of that sorry. But 1/1 roach timing, I did. I also heard of Blink allin, based solely on the upgrade Blink, same for Storm, same for Warp Gate with gates-allin. The only real timing terran might have is 2/2 timing in TvZ if the start ebay quickly, and still, zergs usually get 2/2 before terrans. LOL, really.... Must be that all the SC2 games I've listened IN KOREAN commentary have been lies. It is not me making up this; it was theMarine (OGN caster) who commented that Terran is the only race with a timing window for every upgrade.
... maybe you need more practice Korean?
it is more like you can expect to take map control, than "timing attack".
It is more like you can be confident taking a fight after an upgrade timing if you have excellent control, than "timing attack".
Sc2 so far has been mostly "timing attack" than a show of skill. TvT has been a show of talent for over a year, but other match ups seems very "timing attack" with control having much less effect than in BW.
BW terminology also may affect how you understand Korean casters.
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When is this happening? I am getting shit on beecause it takes twice as long to select ONLY hellions or hellbats
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On March 30 2014 06:05 EJK wrote:
When is this happening? I am getting shit on beecause it takes twice as long to select ONLY hellions or hellbats
Nah, I was getting hyped as well when this announcement hit, still I have to wait for this minor change to get implemented... Pretty annoying 
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
This is now live.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/12504561582
With the release of Patch 2.1 earlier this year, a change was made to the way Hellion and Hellbat group selection worked. The change made it so that double clicking or ctrl + clicking a Hellion or Hellbat would select all Hellions and Hellbats on screen. After reviewing feedback from the community, we made the choice last month to revert this change.
We wanted to provide an update and let everyone know that the following change is now live in all regions:
Terran- Double clicking or Ctrl + Clicking a Hellion or Hellbat now selects only Hellions or Hellbats and not both.
Additionally, we republished Overgrowth to fix a small terrain issue on the map. The updated map can be found through matchmaking and the Custom Games list.
Thanks to everyone who provided feedback on these issues!
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On March 20 2014 12:51 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 12:46 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 10:32 xxjcdentonxx wrote:On March 20 2014 10:22 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 09:34 jellyjello wrote:On March 20 2014 09:01 Faust852 wrote:On March 20 2014 08:56 jellyjello wrote:
David Kim doesn't get it again. Players upgraded Siege Tanks not just because Siege Tanks provide different ways to how the game can be played, but they did it because siege tanks are a lot better than un-sieged tanks. The reason Terran players hit the Siege upgrade button is because it is a required upgrade in many of their winning strategies. You can't say the same about the Hellions and Hellbats. They should have made it so that Factories can only produce Hellions and if players wanted Hellbats, then they had to hit the upgrade just like they used to do with tanks. No, I find it OK as it is. You can open hellion if you want, and getting hellbat fast if you play mech or hellbat tank. The upgrade would be too expensive in the midgame and would kill a lot of strategies. It would actually open up a lot more diverse strategies because it will create new timing windows and also more unit utilization play from actually being able to switch your units between one mode from the other during your game play just like siege tanks. The way it works now, it's either Hellions or Hellbats. It would just make things harder for terran which isn't the easiest race to begin with. What new timing would you hit that youy didn't have now ? Lol Any upgrade in Terrran can be a timing window. Terran is the only race out of 3 that has a timing window for an upgrade. You have a timing for combat shield, a timing for stim, a timing for concussion, a timing for +1, a timing for +1 +1...etc. Terran is the only race that can do this, duh? But many games involve a "timing window" and players utilize them regardless of race. You don't get it. Every upgrade in early to mid game for Terran can be used as a timing window. You can't say the same for toss and zerg. I am not saying Toss and Zergs don't have their own timing window, but they cannot use every upgrade like Terran does for their timing window. Terran is the only race that can do this, and this is a well known fact among Korean progamers who are very strict about optimizing their build orders. What Shield timing do you have appart this gambly play from Bomber in TvZ ? What real timing do you have with stim ? In TvZ, once you got stim, you "might" put some pressure with your marine and hellion, but you will surely never win anything with that. 1/1 push as terran ? never heard of that sorry. But 1/1 roach timing, I did. I also heard of Blink allin, based solely on the upgrade Blink, same for Storm, same for Warp Gate with gates-allin. The only real timing terran might have is 2/2 timing in TvZ if the start ebay quickly, and still, zergs usually get 2/2 before terrans.
You can do the the 1/1 2 Medivac timing after initial hellion/reaper harass (where you get 3 rax before double ebay into starport).
After that, whether you wanna do a 2/2 follow up depends on whether your ahead or not.
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EPT
