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On February 04 2014 04:43 Die4Ever wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 04:42 Yakikorosu wrote:On February 04 2014 04:40 Die4Ever wrote:On February 04 2014 04:33 NovaMB wrote:On February 04 2014 04:32 Die4Ever wrote:
Hopefully they do this patch before Code S starts... Wouldnt that screw up the competition because everyone is playing on a patch nobody has played before? I think it would be kind of lame if Supernova got knocked out because the patch hit after Group B was played. SuperNova probably going to mech anyway. Assuming he's solved Carriers. ^_^ the ghost change was done specifically to help mech, so that could help him also time warp a little bit
Oh don't be naive.
The Ghost change is as much a buff to Bio as it is to Mech. They targeted Ghosts specifically because of the overall complaints about TvP, if they wanted to actually address Mech they'd do it elsewhere.
One of the chief complaints with Mech against Protoss is how reliant they already are on Ghosts and what that means to their options as a match progresses. Simply saying "well here have a free EMP upgrade" doesn't change that problem it just makes using Ghosts less of a pain, which applies equally to Bio users.
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On February 04 2014 04:49 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 04:43 Die4Ever wrote:On February 04 2014 04:42 Yakikorosu wrote:On February 04 2014 04:40 Die4Ever wrote:On February 04 2014 04:33 NovaMB wrote:On February 04 2014 04:32 Die4Ever wrote:
Hopefully they do this patch before Code S starts... Wouldnt that screw up the competition because everyone is playing on a patch nobody has played before? I think it would be kind of lame if Supernova got knocked out because the patch hit after Group B was played. SuperNova probably going to mech anyway. Assuming he's solved Carriers. ^_^ the ghost change was done specifically to help mech, so that could help him also time warp a little bit Oh don't be naive. The Ghost change is as much a buff to Bio as it is to Mech. They targeted Ghosts specifically because of the overall complaints about TvP, if they wanted to actually address Mech they'd do it elsewhere. One of the chief complaints with Mech against Protoss is how reliant they already are on Ghosts and what that means to their options as a match progresses. Simply saying "well here have a free EMP upgrade" doesn't change that problem it just makes using Ghosts less of a pain, which applies equally to Bio users.
Yea I know it's a buff to both styles, my point was that it could help mech, I didn't say it would help mech more than bio.
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Seems like they just followed the polls instead of listening to pro players. That is, the poll in the original thread was for the ghost change, but most pros were against it.
Also I hope they know the community wants MSC vision range to be nerfed. David Kim only said "range" which is worrisome.
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I really looked at the ghost change as a buff to bio, maybe I'm forgetting something but since when did we see mech/ghost compositions in TvP? I looked at SuperNova's games against Stats and he wasn't making ghosts. Anyway ghosts are so good against P, especially now, that I guess it's a general buff to T in TvP.
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On February 04 2014 04:58 Yakikorosu wrote:
I really looked at the ghost change as a buff to bio, maybe I'm forgetting something but since when did we see mech/ghost compositions in TvP? I looked at SuperNova's games against Stats and he wasn't making ghosts. Anyway ghosts are so good against P, especially now, that I guess it's a general buff to T in TvP.
IMO it just gives terran the option to do a slightly later SCV pull with EMPs, and doesn't change late game at all.
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pretty sure I've seen ghost-mech vs protoss before, might've been Byun lol
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I figured it out: the Ghost buff is just a way to lure ByuN back into active playing. GhostKingPrime Mark II, anyone?
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Papua New Guinea1058 Posts
Cant wait for those TvP unbeatable timings. ))))))))
Hope I'm wrong.
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Dear blizzard,
Increasing timewarp cost is a good change.
Now you need to do this:
Nerf the msc vision to 11 like every other air unit in the game.
Nerf the PO range slightly and/or increase the energy cost and/or reduce casting range as per miniguns suggestion, but keep its 60sec duration as that only truly affects pvp.
Instead of removing yet another upgrade (ghost), I really wish youd chosen to reduce the cost of the armory instead. Its virtually the same cost-reduction for terran regardless, but one actually helps mech. Please dont pretend to buff mech by buffing bio. You have no credibility in that department anymore, not after years and years of promising to make mech viable. But oh well...
Remove the biotag from the hellbat. It makes zero sense to have a mechanical unit become a biounit just because it transforms. The ability of being healed is part of what made hellbat op in drops in the first place and at the same time it makes them shit against archons.
Merge transformation servos and blueflame into one upgrade. Possibly with a longer upgradetime.
Things worth to consider but not to be done right now:
give tanks an upgrade that lets them attack shield more effectively. Basically "EMP Shells".
PvZ:
The problem isnt lategame tempests, the problem is the swarmhost! Some pros have suggested removing the enduring locust upgrade and instead let the swarmhost be faster both with burrowing/unborrowing and when moving around on the map. This could be either as an upgrade or as a fundamental change to the unit. Basically reward multitasking with swarmhosts instead of the boring, long, drawn out static play we're seeing. Others have more very good suggestions on how to improve the swarmhost and there are many possible ways to do so; please consider looking at the swarmhost instead of yet another bandaid with tempest.
Consider removing the tempest entirely and make the carrier into more of a bw-carrier where more micro is possible. The tempest is a truly wonky unit that makes very little sense intuitively with its minimal damage to everything but massive, and having air units with such range is terrible design as air units dont really interact with the map in the first place (they only do so transitively by interacting with counters on the ground) and long range reduces that even further.
TvZ:
Buff the radius of vipers blinding cloud but instead of nullifying range under it let it reduce range by a set number (as in reduce every units range by x, not reduce every units range to x). That way blinding cloud is less of a hard counter to mech and becomes more viable vs bio.
Consider nerfing ravens slightly in conjunction with proposed swarmhost changes. That in conjunction with changes to viper will result in less risk of turtle-terrans.
People, if you like any of these suggestion please repeat them. Maybe blizzard will actually listen to us for once (unlikely).
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Bring ALL the bandaids!!!!!
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On February 04 2014 04:19 aeligos wrote:
zomg... the ramp width is not even an issue... but oh well
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On February 04 2014 04:29 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 04:19 aeligos wrote:
zomg... the ramp width is not even an issue... but oh well It's the ONLY issue with the map. The rest of the map is fine as far as I'm concerned. But that natural ramp makes the map absolutely stupid for Protoss vs Zerg.
Main to Natural ramp distances, the openness of the third, the distance to the forth, the lack of any terrain features accross the map, the fact you're ALWAYS in the open when attacking, openness to aerial threats, silly Ruin-esque wall offs, no the rest of the map seems completely fine!
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On February 04 2014 04:21 Ballesvette wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 04:19 aeligos wrote:
zomg... the ramp width is not even an issue... but oh well its an issue if you want to expand as protoss.
Why expand as Protoss?
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I actually like Daedalus Point. Though I do see the problem with Protoss but that forces them to innovate instead of the same settle of play as in every other map regarding that ramp.
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They should make the Range upgrade on the Hydras be +1 vs ground and +2 vs air.
7 range for air would help a lot in all matchups I think.
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On February 04 2014 05:06 HornyHerring wrote:
Cant wait for those TvP unbeatable timings. ))))))))
Hope I'm wrong.
As has been often said.
If you were going to do a Ghost timing attack vs Protoss, the amount of time needed for the Ghost to walk across the map is sufficient to gather energy for an EMP.
This change won't change that, it might allow for 2 EMPs per Ghost. MAYBE.
What this does help is an emergency situation vs Archons or something and you have a late Ghost Academy.
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The ghost patch is just stupid. It's a bone to the Terrans that doesn't address late game at all. Nobody is losing TvP because their ghosts don't have enough energy.
Time warp is a slight nerf, but honestly it's only an issue w Blink allins and you can still cast 3 w full energy. Most blink allins are decided by the first time warp anyway. Just make the maps less blink friendly to address that.
Glad the Hydra buff didn't make it in. It was stupid. You can't halve the gas cost of a core unit in a MU (ZvP) without affecting other MU.
SWARM HOST NEEDS A FIX. Get rid of enduring locusts, make them regen faster and let the S/H burrow quicker. LIKE EVERYONE HAS SAID.
The problem with blinding cloud vs. mech is that tanks can't move out from under it. Maybe if they made it reduce the range by a certain amount it would be okay? Or if it only worked on bio?
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On February 04 2014 05:11 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 04:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 04 2014 04:19 aeligos wrote:
zomg... the ramp width is not even an issue... but oh well It's the ONLY issue with the map. The rest of the map is fine as far as I'm concerned. But that natural ramp makes the map absolutely stupid for Protoss vs Zerg. Main to Natural ramp distances, the openness of the third, the distance to the forth, the lack of any terrain features accross the map, the fact you're ALWAYS in the open when attacking, openness to aerial threats, silly Ruin-esque wall offs, no the rest of the map seems completely fine!
All of those things suck, but they all suck for ALL of the races.
That's what makes it fine.
The ramp isn't fine because it sucks WAY more for Protoss ONLY vs Zerg than it does for anyone else.
It's fine if you don't like Daedalus Point, the map does everything it can to make you uncomfortable, that's the whole point of it.
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On February 04 2014 05:12 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 05:06 HornyHerring wrote:
Cant wait for those TvP unbeatable timings. ))))))))
Hope I'm wrong. As has been often said. If you were going to do a Ghost timing attack vs Protoss, the amount of time needed for the Ghost to walk across the map is sufficient to gather energy for an EMP. This change won't change that, it might allow for 2 EMPs per Ghost. MAYBE. What this does help is an emergency situation vs Archons or something and you have a late Ghost Academy.
Well, if they start with enough for one, and it takes the walk across to earn the enrgy for another, each ghost will have 2 emps.
I can't wait for all the SCV pulls with EMP allins we will see. FML
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EPT
