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so an asian guy posts a couple of examples of what is considered corruption in korea and china which would not be a deal at all anywhere in the west, and he just gets called a troll, laughed at and called nationalistic. really nice there.
i would like some juridical papers backing his examples up though.
except for that, i think he is entirely right. western lobbying is corruption. in some countries it's more transparent and thus less dangerous. in sweden though, "the worlds least corrupted country", it's illegal to spread information about what lobbying groups do or where they get their funding. guess USA wouldn't have been able to get their market lobbyism through here (no conspiracy, the social democratic party, largest and almost always ruling party in sweden, were bought by american lobbyists in the 80's. of course swedens technology, health, equality, richness and happiness levels plummeted since then) without first enforcing these fascist laws.
corporate malpractice and political corruption should, of course, be the most severe crimes of all, because of the range of damage they cause and the power relation between the perpetrator and the victim. there is no way of preotecting yourself.
in fact, it's the only cases where i'd vote for death penalty.
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On January 29 2014 01:41 Kheve wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 01:39 Plansix wrote:On January 29 2014 01:30 Kheve wrote:On January 29 2014 01:16 xAdra wrote:Kheve writes some pretty decent arguments but it's quite clearly biased against everything about Blizzard and what they stand for, while everything Kespa does is unquestionably good. On January 28 2014 23:58 VisonKai wrote:
Since StarTale isn't in Proleague, Life will just have to win every GSL this year to keep up the exposure. It's k, npnp. yeah just realized the implications for ST if they don't join PL....imagining startale fading into some background team that I vaguely remember existing, but don't know who the players are. Life had better keep things up Thats because the news of blizzard suing BW tournaments shocked me to hell. Up to that point I was sympathetic to Blizzard trying to get into Korean Esports. After that, everything blizzard has been saying up to that point has been dispelled as fake. Blizzards official reasoning of why they sue BW? Because BW is competing with SC2. What happened to wanting to promote esports better in korea? It has nothing to do with BW competing with SC2. It was about protecting their trademarks and copyrights to the story, art, characters and world of SC2. Copyright and trademark laws require the the holder defend their copyrights and trademarks to keep them. Blizzard had to go to court to confirm that they held the rights to all of SC2, or they risked losing it. Thats wrong. Blizzard suit was about BW tournaments being detrimental to SC2 thus seeks damages and injunction against holding BW tournaments. The suit was seeking an injunction to stop the BW tournaments. And damages due to detriment to SC2. NOT a declaration of copyright and trademarks (It was never disputed by Kespa).
Yes, it was to confirm that Blizzard held the right to decide who broadcast SC2. If they didn't sue, they would lose the right to decide who broadcast SC2. It's a defend to or lose it system.
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I think we all knew this day would eventually come.
Hopefully the players and teams will find safe and successful working conditions. My heart breaks a little every time I read about how Player X got screwed out of his hard-earned winnings, or how Team Y is abusing their players.
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On January 29 2014 01:41 Kheve wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 01:39 Plansix wrote:On January 29 2014 01:30 Kheve wrote:On January 29 2014 01:16 xAdra wrote:Kheve writes some pretty decent arguments but it's quite clearly biased against everything about Blizzard and what they stand for, while everything Kespa does is unquestionably good. On January 28 2014 23:58 VisonKai wrote:
Since StarTale isn't in Proleague, Life will just have to win every GSL this year to keep up the exposure. It's k, npnp. yeah just realized the implications for ST if they don't join PL....imagining startale fading into some background team that I vaguely remember existing, but don't know who the players are. Life had better keep things up Thats because the news of blizzard suing BW tournaments shocked me to hell. Up to that point I was sympathetic to Blizzard trying to get into Korean Esports. After that, everything blizzard has been saying up to that point has been dispelled as fake. Blizzards official reasoning of why they sue BW? Because BW is competing with SC2. What happened to wanting to promote esports better in korea? It has nothing to do with BW competing with SC2. It was about protecting their trademarks and copyrights to the story, art, characters and world of SC2. Copyright and trademark laws require the the holder defend their copyrights and trademarks to keep them. Blizzard had to go to court to confirm that they held the rights to all of SC2, or they risked losing it. Thats wrong. Blizzard suit was about BW tournaments being detrimental to SC2 thus seeks damages and injunction against holding BW tournaments. The suit was seeking an injunction to stop the BW tournaments. And damages due to detriment to SC2. NOT a declaration of copyright and trademarks (It was never disputed by Kespa).
Please get your facts straight before posting nonsense. Kespa even used to charge for Starcraft broadcasting licenses within Korea (= making money with Blizzard IP without paying anything to them), which was one of the causes for the original law suit. Of course it got more prominent when SC2 was released and this was when Blizzard really started to push the charges, because, like Plansix said, they needed to do that to keep their trademark claims for the new game. Blizzard certainly could have and should have handled the transition to SC2 more smoothly, but acting as if Kespa did everything right back then is just silly.
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cannot say i am terribly surprised, writing's been on the wall for months.
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On January 29 2014 01:47 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 01:41 Kheve wrote:On January 29 2014 01:39 Plansix wrote:On January 29 2014 01:30 Kheve wrote:On January 29 2014 01:16 xAdra wrote:Kheve writes some pretty decent arguments but it's quite clearly biased against everything about Blizzard and what they stand for, while everything Kespa does is unquestionably good. On January 28 2014 23:58 VisonKai wrote:
Since StarTale isn't in Proleague, Life will just have to win every GSL this year to keep up the exposure. It's k, npnp. yeah just realized the implications for ST if they don't join PL....imagining startale fading into some background team that I vaguely remember existing, but don't know who the players are. Life had better keep things up Thats because the news of blizzard suing BW tournaments shocked me to hell. Up to that point I was sympathetic to Blizzard trying to get into Korean Esports. After that, everything blizzard has been saying up to that point has been dispelled as fake. Blizzards official reasoning of why they sue BW? Because BW is competing with SC2. What happened to wanting to promote esports better in korea? It has nothing to do with BW competing with SC2. It was about protecting their trademarks and copyrights to the story, art, characters and world of SC2. Copyright and trademark laws require the the holder defend their copyrights and trademarks to keep them. Blizzard had to go to court to confirm that they held the rights to all of SC2, or they risked losing it. Thats wrong. Blizzard suit was about BW tournaments being detrimental to SC2 thus seeks damages and injunction against holding BW tournaments. The suit was seeking an injunction to stop the BW tournaments. And damages due to detriment to SC2. NOT a declaration of copyright and trademarks (It was never disputed by Kespa). Yes, it was to confirm that Blizzard held the right to decide who broadcast SC2. If they didn't sue, they would lose the right to decide who broadcast SC2. It's a defend to or lose it system.
No you are wrong. The cause of action (the legal basis) for the suit was that BW was detrimental to SC2. Thus Blizzard seek an injunction against BW tournaments being held plus damages for SC2 losses. Kespa never hold SC2 tournaments. At that point in time, Kespa doesnt care about SC2.
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I'm going to ignore all the posts about teams that were in esf disbanding, and just say that it kind of had to happen. The division between kespa and esf didn't help anyone
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Get your facts right.
Blizzard knows their copyright and ip was NOT violated by kespa. Kespa never reproduced blizzard products. Never claim to be blizzard. Never claim to be holding tournaments in Blizzards name. Thus there was virtually nothing blizzard can do to claim from Kespa.
The only basis finally was that BW tournaments was in detriment to SC2.
In the advert example where a BMW owner rents out his car for a commercial shoot, IF the advert uses the car in such a way that is detriment to BMW then yes BMW can sue (though wat sort of situation it might succeed depends on the law). The fee for using the BMW for the advert nevertheless belongs to the car OWNER.
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On January 29 2014 02:05 Kheve wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 01:47 Plansix wrote:On January 29 2014 01:41 Kheve wrote:On January 29 2014 01:39 Plansix wrote:On January 29 2014 01:30 Kheve wrote:On January 29 2014 01:16 xAdra wrote:Kheve writes some pretty decent arguments but it's quite clearly biased against everything about Blizzard and what they stand for, while everything Kespa does is unquestionably good. On January 28 2014 23:58 VisonKai wrote:
Since StarTale isn't in Proleague, Life will just have to win every GSL this year to keep up the exposure. It's k, npnp. yeah just realized the implications for ST if they don't join PL....imagining startale fading into some background team that I vaguely remember existing, but don't know who the players are. Life had better keep things up Thats because the news of blizzard suing BW tournaments shocked me to hell. Up to that point I was sympathetic to Blizzard trying to get into Korean Esports. After that, everything blizzard has been saying up to that point has been dispelled as fake. Blizzards official reasoning of why they sue BW? Because BW is competing with SC2. What happened to wanting to promote esports better in korea? It has nothing to do with BW competing with SC2. It was about protecting their trademarks and copyrights to the story, art, characters and world of SC2. Copyright and trademark laws require the the holder defend their copyrights and trademarks to keep them. Blizzard had to go to court to confirm that they held the rights to all of SC2, or they risked losing it. Thats wrong. Blizzard suit was about BW tournaments being detrimental to SC2 thus seeks damages and injunction against holding BW tournaments. The suit was seeking an injunction to stop the BW tournaments. And damages due to detriment to SC2. NOT a declaration of copyright and trademarks (It was never disputed by Kespa). Yes, it was to confirm that Blizzard held the right to decide who broadcast SC2. If they didn't sue, they would lose the right to decide who broadcast SC2. It's a defend to or lose it system. No you are wrong. The cause of action (the legal basis) for the suit was that BW was detrimental to SC2. Thus Blizzard seek an injunction against BW tournaments being held plus damages for SC2 losses. Kespa never hold SC2 tournaments. At that point in time, Kespa doesnt care about SC2.
If you do a google search for "Blizzard sues Kespa" the first two articles say and quote Blizzard as only caring about their trademarks, copyrights and confirming that SC2 was not public domain. You really need to read up on the subject, rather than spouting nonsense.
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On January 29 2014 01:49 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 01:41 Kheve wrote:On January 29 2014 01:39 Plansix wrote:On January 29 2014 01:30 Kheve wrote:On January 29 2014 01:16 xAdra wrote:Kheve writes some pretty decent arguments but it's quite clearly biased against everything about Blizzard and what they stand for, while everything Kespa does is unquestionably good. On January 28 2014 23:58 VisonKai wrote:
Since StarTale isn't in Proleague, Life will just have to win every GSL this year to keep up the exposure. It's k, npnp. yeah just realized the implications for ST if they don't join PL....imagining startale fading into some background team that I vaguely remember existing, but don't know who the players are. Life had better keep things up Thats because the news of blizzard suing BW tournaments shocked me to hell. Up to that point I was sympathetic to Blizzard trying to get into Korean Esports. After that, everything blizzard has been saying up to that point has been dispelled as fake. Blizzards official reasoning of why they sue BW? Because BW is competing with SC2. What happened to wanting to promote esports better in korea? It has nothing to do with BW competing with SC2. It was about protecting their trademarks and copyrights to the story, art, characters and world of SC2. Copyright and trademark laws require the the holder defend their copyrights and trademarks to keep them. Blizzard had to go to court to confirm that they held the rights to all of SC2, or they risked losing it. Thats wrong. Blizzard suit was about BW tournaments being detrimental to SC2 thus seeks damages and injunction against holding BW tournaments. The suit was seeking an injunction to stop the BW tournaments. And damages due to detriment to SC2. NOT a declaration of copyright and trademarks (It was never disputed by Kespa). Please get your facts straight before posting nonsense. Kespa even used to charge for Starcraft broadcasting licenses within Korea (= making money with Blizzard IP without paying anything to them), which was one of the causes for the original law suit. Of course it got more prominent when SC2 was released and this was when Blizzard really started to push the charges, because, like Plansix said, they needed to do that to keep their trademark claims for the new game. Blizzard certainly could have and should have handled the transition to SC2 more smoothly, but acting as if Kespa did everything right back then is just silly.
Thats where you are wrong. Like i said. In advertising renting a car for a commercial shoot is very common. The owner of the BMW holds the rights to renting out the car to the producers. This is undisputed.
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Hooray, KeSPA!
Consolidation to a more stable and venerated organization ftw.
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not sure what this actually means (if it really means anything?)
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On January 29 2014 02:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 02:05 Kheve wrote:On January 29 2014 01:47 Plansix wrote:On January 29 2014 01:41 Kheve wrote:On January 29 2014 01:39 Plansix wrote:On January 29 2014 01:30 Kheve wrote:On January 29 2014 01:16 xAdra wrote:Kheve writes some pretty decent arguments but it's quite clearly biased against everything about Blizzard and what they stand for, while everything Kespa does is unquestionably good. On January 28 2014 23:58 VisonKai wrote:
Since StarTale isn't in Proleague, Life will just have to win every GSL this year to keep up the exposure. It's k, npnp. yeah just realized the implications for ST if they don't join PL....imagining startale fading into some background team that I vaguely remember existing, but don't know who the players are. Life had better keep things up Thats because the news of blizzard suing BW tournaments shocked me to hell. Up to that point I was sympathetic to Blizzard trying to get into Korean Esports. After that, everything blizzard has been saying up to that point has been dispelled as fake. Blizzards official reasoning of why they sue BW? Because BW is competing with SC2. What happened to wanting to promote esports better in korea? It has nothing to do with BW competing with SC2. It was about protecting their trademarks and copyrights to the story, art, characters and world of SC2. Copyright and trademark laws require the the holder defend their copyrights and trademarks to keep them. Blizzard had to go to court to confirm that they held the rights to all of SC2, or they risked losing it. Thats wrong. Blizzard suit was about BW tournaments being detrimental to SC2 thus seeks damages and injunction against holding BW tournaments. The suit was seeking an injunction to stop the BW tournaments. And damages due to detriment to SC2. NOT a declaration of copyright and trademarks (It was never disputed by Kespa). Yes, it was to confirm that Blizzard held the right to decide who broadcast SC2. If they didn't sue, they would lose the right to decide who broadcast SC2. It's a defend to or lose it system. No you are wrong. The cause of action (the legal basis) for the suit was that BW was detrimental to SC2. Thus Blizzard seek an injunction against BW tournaments being held plus damages for SC2 losses. Kespa never hold SC2 tournaments. At that point in time, Kespa doesnt care about SC2. If you do a google search for "Blizzard sues Kespa" the first two articles say and quote Blizzard as only caring about their trademarks, copyrights and confirming that SC2 was not public domain. You really need to read up on the subject, rather than spouting nonsense.
Read the articles properly. Blizzard sues Kespa because they claim to have signed away the rights to GomTV to broadcast. What right is this? Copyright and trademarks laws are very clear cut. No violation of copyright was ever mentioned. The right to broadcast was signed many years after BW and there is no such rights in law concerning such issues. The only law they can use is copyright and trademarks. In which the law is very clear, the owners of the product holds the rights to the fees collected for that product he owns. Unless there is a detriment to the copyright holder, the holder is unable to stop the commercial from going on. Even if there is a detriment, the commercial MAY be stopped but the fee collected BELONGS to the owner.
The cause of action IS that BW tournaments are held to the detriment of blizzard SC2. Thus they can apply for an injunction to stop it and seek damages.
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On January 29 2014 02:25 Kheve wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 02:16 Plansix wrote:On January 29 2014 02:05 Kheve wrote:On January 29 2014 01:47 Plansix wrote:On January 29 2014 01:41 Kheve wrote:On January 29 2014 01:39 Plansix wrote:On January 29 2014 01:30 Kheve wrote:On January 29 2014 01:16 xAdra wrote:Kheve writes some pretty decent arguments but it's quite clearly biased against everything about Blizzard and what they stand for, while everything Kespa does is unquestionably good. On January 28 2014 23:58 VisonKai wrote:
Since StarTale isn't in Proleague, Life will just have to win every GSL this year to keep up the exposure. It's k, npnp. yeah just realized the implications for ST if they don't join PL....imagining startale fading into some background team that I vaguely remember existing, but don't know who the players are. Life had better keep things up Thats because the news of blizzard suing BW tournaments shocked me to hell. Up to that point I was sympathetic to Blizzard trying to get into Korean Esports. After that, everything blizzard has been saying up to that point has been dispelled as fake. Blizzards official reasoning of why they sue BW? Because BW is competing with SC2. What happened to wanting to promote esports better in korea? It has nothing to do with BW competing with SC2. It was about protecting their trademarks and copyrights to the story, art, characters and world of SC2. Copyright and trademark laws require the the holder defend their copyrights and trademarks to keep them. Blizzard had to go to court to confirm that they held the rights to all of SC2, or they risked losing it. Thats wrong. Blizzard suit was about BW tournaments being detrimental to SC2 thus seeks damages and injunction against holding BW tournaments. The suit was seeking an injunction to stop the BW tournaments. And damages due to detriment to SC2. NOT a declaration of copyright and trademarks (It was never disputed by Kespa). Yes, it was to confirm that Blizzard held the right to decide who broadcast SC2. If they didn't sue, they would lose the right to decide who broadcast SC2. It's a defend to or lose it system. No you are wrong. The cause of action (the legal basis) for the suit was that BW was detrimental to SC2. Thus Blizzard seek an injunction against BW tournaments being held plus damages for SC2 losses. Kespa never hold SC2 tournaments. At that point in time, Kespa doesnt care about SC2. If you do a google search for "Blizzard sues Kespa" the first two articles say and quote Blizzard as only caring about their trademarks, copyrights and confirming that SC2 was not public domain. You really need to read up on the subject, rather than spouting nonsense. Read the articles properly. Blizzard sues Kespa because they claim to have signed away the rights to GomTV to broadcast. What right is this? Copyright and trademarks laws are very clear cut. No violation of copyright was ever mentioned. The right to broadcast was signed many years after BW and there is no such rights in law concerning such issues. The only law they can use is copyright and trademarks. In which the law is very clear, the owners of the product holds the rights to the fees collected for that product he owns. Unless there is a detriment to the copyright holder, the holder is unable to stop the commercial from going on. Even if there is a detriment, the commercial MAY be stopped but the fee collected BELONGS to the owner. The cause of action IS that BW tournaments are held to the detriment of blizzard SC2. Thus they can apply for an injunction to stop it and seek damages.
All right, I think we all need to accept that you dot understand how copyright laws work or that the holder of the copyright must defend it or lose it. Good day sir.
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On January 29 2014 02:29 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 02:25 Kheve wrote:On January 29 2014 02:16 Plansix wrote:On January 29 2014 02:05 Kheve wrote:On January 29 2014 01:47 Plansix wrote:On January 29 2014 01:41 Kheve wrote:On January 29 2014 01:39 Plansix wrote:On January 29 2014 01:30 Kheve wrote:On January 29 2014 01:16 xAdra wrote:Kheve writes some pretty decent arguments but it's quite clearly biased against everything about Blizzard and what they stand for, while everything Kespa does is unquestionably good. On January 28 2014 23:58 VisonKai wrote:
Since StarTale isn't in Proleague, Life will just have to win every GSL this year to keep up the exposure. It's k, npnp. yeah just realized the implications for ST if they don't join PL....imagining startale fading into some background team that I vaguely remember existing, but don't know who the players are. Life had better keep things up Thats because the news of blizzard suing BW tournaments shocked me to hell. Up to that point I was sympathetic to Blizzard trying to get into Korean Esports. After that, everything blizzard has been saying up to that point has been dispelled as fake. Blizzards official reasoning of why they sue BW? Because BW is competing with SC2. What happened to wanting to promote esports better in korea? It has nothing to do with BW competing with SC2. It was about protecting their trademarks and copyrights to the story, art, characters and world of SC2. Copyright and trademark laws require the the holder defend their copyrights and trademarks to keep them. Blizzard had to go to court to confirm that they held the rights to all of SC2, or they risked losing it. Thats wrong. Blizzard suit was about BW tournaments being detrimental to SC2 thus seeks damages and injunction against holding BW tournaments. The suit was seeking an injunction to stop the BW tournaments. And damages due to detriment to SC2. NOT a declaration of copyright and trademarks (It was never disputed by Kespa). Yes, it was to confirm that Blizzard held the right to decide who broadcast SC2. If they didn't sue, they would lose the right to decide who broadcast SC2. It's a defend to or lose it system. No you are wrong. The cause of action (the legal basis) for the suit was that BW was detrimental to SC2. Thus Blizzard seek an injunction against BW tournaments being held plus damages for SC2 losses. Kespa never hold SC2 tournaments. At that point in time, Kespa doesnt care about SC2. If you do a google search for "Blizzard sues Kespa" the first two articles say and quote Blizzard as only caring about their trademarks, copyrights and confirming that SC2 was not public domain. You really need to read up on the subject, rather than spouting nonsense. Read the articles properly. Blizzard sues Kespa because they claim to have signed away the rights to GomTV to broadcast. What right is this? Copyright and trademarks laws are very clear cut. No violation of copyright was ever mentioned. The right to broadcast was signed many years after BW and there is no such rights in law concerning such issues. The only law they can use is copyright and trademarks. In which the law is very clear, the owners of the product holds the rights to the fees collected for that product he owns. Unless there is a detriment to the copyright holder, the holder is unable to stop the commercial from going on. Even if there is a detriment, the commercial MAY be stopped but the fee collected BELONGS to the owner. The cause of action IS that BW tournaments are held to the detriment of blizzard SC2. Thus they can apply for an injunction to stop it and seek damages. All right, I think we all need to accept that you dot understand how copyright laws work or that the holder of the copyright must defend it or lose it. Good day sir.
I have LLB qualifications though I do not practice. I'm certainly well versed on points of law I assure you.
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Also all the exclusive rights were so much bullshit anyway. Imagine someone somewhere would be giving exclusive licenses to broadcast ALL of hockey or football or basketball or fucking chess... All those games (because that's what they are afterall) were created by someone somewhere, but the broadcasting licenses (or any licenses for that matter) belong to the creators of leagues, not creators of that game...
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Startale in proleague would be awesome!
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On January 29 2014 02:16 Plansix wrote:
You really need to read up on the subject, rather than spouting nonsense.
That should apply to you. From what kheve is saying looks like he was reading about the subject as it was actually happening back in the day. Don't use google, the sites it brings are only taking on what blizzard told them about and didn't bother to contact the other side and have the two sides of the story because of the language barrier. Instead look on TL for milkis updates and translations about the whole issue.
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On January 29 2014 02:37 Golondrin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 02:16 Plansix wrote:
You really need to read up on the subject, rather than spouting nonsense. That should apply to you. From what kheve is saying looks like he was reading about the subject as it was actually happening back in the day. Don't use google, the sites it brings are only taking on what blizzard told them about and didn't bother to contact the other side and have the two sides of the story because of the language barrier. Instead look on TL for milkis updates and translations about the whole issue.
Wait, so I should trade one bias point of view for another? I think I will form my own opinion on the subject by listening to everything and then deciding which is correct.
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On January 29 2014 02:37 Golondrin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 02:16 Plansix wrote:
You really need to read up on the subject, rather than spouting nonsense. That should apply to you. From what kheve is saying looks like he was reading about the subject as it was actually happening back in the day. Don't use google, the sites it brings are only taking on what blizzard told them about and didn't bother to contact the other side and have the two sides of the story because of the language barrier. Instead look on TL for milkis updates and translations about the whole issue.
Thanks. Im not trying claim blizzard is devil incarnate. But I am trying to set some facts out straight to those who gets even the facts wrong. Blizzard cause of action was that BW tournaments was to the detriment of SC2 thus seeking an injunction against Kespa holding BW tournaments and damages from Kespa.
As for plainsix, he is entitled to his opinion like everyone else. But I just wish he gets the facts right at least and not base his opinions on wrong facts.
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EPT
