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On December 10 2013 01:03 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 00:53 sSooG wrote:
EG needs high profile players... sad to see him leave but its good for the EG image They have Jaedong. They don't need anyone else because team leagues don't matter. The others players can be their foreigners, paid little but with a good part of streaming obligations.
correction the team leagues most teams compete in don't matter. PL is a great tool for training compared to the other bush leagues because of it's duration and quality of talent. Only problem with that is you don't want to be too dependent on something that won't last forever. We've been waiting for business to pick-up and thank Heavens it's almost that time.
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Well, he accomplished much more than Machine, lets see what will happen in the future, good luck to him!
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On December 09 2013 20:59 boxerfred wrote:
Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
Okay, seriously, lower your pitchforks please. I think you guys took the screenshot completely out of context. Can we at least have a full translation instead of picking and choosing which parts to translate and which parts to not? Shame on you mongmong.
Revival: Where do I register?
Symbol: This friday
Revival: They don't even tell us things like this
HyuN: But hey Revival (He called Revival Jjakddongah, which is a nickname that the TSL players use for him)
Symbol: If you go into the site
Revival: This is really a trash team
Symbol: It says it there
Hyun: There's an overlap with WCG qualifiers
Symbol: lolol
Hyun: and IEM finals
Yes, it's true, Revival used the term "trash team." Yes, it was unprofessional, and yes, it was quite rude. Yes, he was stupid for leaving his stream on by accident while he was having this conversation.
However, this conversation, from what I understand from talking to Revival, isn't even recent. This was his own personal conversation that he was having with HyuN and Symbol BEFORE WCG 2013 Qualifiers (Based on HyuN's comment in the conversation), which was back in July. This was a misunderstanding. Revival thought that EG didn't tell him about WCG qualifiers, but that was because Revival would be in Shanghai for IEM (which he ended up winning if memory serves me right.)
Revival was simply having a bad day and this was ONE moment where he was experiencing frustration. It wasn't right to take it out on his team, but **** happens, and everyone's a human who makes mistakes. When I talked to Revival about it, he felt bad/sorry that this came up online, but he didn't know how to address it or go about it, which is why I'm writing this for him.
I know Revival, HyuN, and Symbol personally from working with TSL before it disbanded, and Revival is a super humble person who PROBABLY, other than HyuN, shows the greatest amount of empathy for others. When my father had a heart attack a while back, Revival was one of the first people who checked up on me.
Please don't ruin someone's image for something that's taken largely out of context. No where in that screenshot does he complain about his salary or anything like that. He left EG on good terms and he has a lot of respect for that team.
Thanks.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Time to join Azubu and be one step closer to performing a coup'de'tat and reforming TSL.
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On December 10 2013 02:53 seoul_kiM wrote:
EG needs quite the roster revamp soon, many of their players aren't inspiring anymore and many have lost a lot of popularity. It's not always about their records and accomplishments and some players bring more to the team than others in a diverse way.
Honestly, I would only keep Alive (consistency), Jaedong for their skills and Incontrol and maybe Machine for the work they do on the team and with the sponsors. Suppy has great potential so I'd keep him and perhaps Xeno but not sure if he has anything coming up for him. On the fence about players like Oz and DeMuslim. Thorzain and HuK are popular but they have waned in skill and Thorzain isn't even full time. EG can really acquire better players (altho some might need to be headhunted EG has the resources)
DeMuslim is one of the most popular Starcraft 2 players, period. Results don't mean much with that kind of popularity, so if you think EG will ever get rid of him keep dreaming. Same with Huk. As long as popularity holds, they are teflon (barring an Idra-level PR disaster).
Like so many others have pointed out in this thread, people arguing about skill mattering in any significance are completely out of the loop and disconnected from the way these teams work. A player can be in bronze league and have potential for a team if said players proves that they have a following and a great personality.
P.S. Alive is probably toast, because as most us know, his skill means almost nothing. He's just not popular enough or marketing himself well to foreign fans.
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On December 10 2013 04:01 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 02:53 seoul_kiM wrote:
EG needs quite the roster revamp soon, many of their players aren't inspiring anymore and many have lost a lot of popularity. It's not always about their records and accomplishments and some players bring more to the team than others in a diverse way.
Honestly, I would only keep Alive (consistency), Jaedong for their skills and Incontrol and maybe Machine for the work they do on the team and with the sponsors. Suppy has great potential so I'd keep him and perhaps Xeno but not sure if he has anything coming up for him. On the fence about players like Oz and DeMuslim. Thorzain and HuK are popular but they have waned in skill and Thorzain isn't even full time. EG can really acquire better players (altho some might need to be headhunted EG has the resources)
DeMuslim is one of the most popular Starcraft 2 players, period. Results don't mean much with that kind of popularity, so if you think EG will ever get rid of him keep dreaming. Same with Huk. As long as popularity holds, they are teflon (barring an Idra-level PR disaster). Like so many others have pointed out in this thread, people arguing about skill mattering in any significance are completely out of the loop and disconnected from the way these teams work. A player can be in bronze league and have potential for a team if said players proves that they have a following and a great personality. P.S. Alive is probably toast, because as most us know, his skill means almost nothing. He's just not popular enough or marketing himself well to foreign fans.
That's part of it. Another part of it is the player's expectations. If Machine, iNcontrol, or Thorzain were on the same contract as Revival, getting the same salary, and expecting to go to the same tournaments, I have no doubt they would get cut as well.
It's all about understanding what your worth is to a team and then make a deal around that. To EG, Revival's worth isn't the same now as it was a year ago when he was getting better results and EG needed korean based players for PL. So it's either, take a pay cut and stop going to tournaments or try to find another team.
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On December 10 2013 04:01 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 02:53 seoul_kiM wrote:
EG needs quite the roster revamp soon, many of their players aren't inspiring anymore and many have lost a lot of popularity. It's not always about their records and accomplishments and some players bring more to the team than others in a diverse way.
Honestly, I would only keep Alive (consistency), Jaedong for their skills and Incontrol and maybe Machine for the work they do on the team and with the sponsors. Suppy has great potential so I'd keep him and perhaps Xeno but not sure if he has anything coming up for him. On the fence about players like Oz and DeMuslim. Thorzain and HuK are popular but they have waned in skill and Thorzain isn't even full time. EG can really acquire better players (altho some might need to be headhunted EG has the resources)
DeMuslim is one of the most popular Starcraft 2 players, period. Results don't mean much with that kind of popularity, so if you think EG will ever get rid of him keep dreaming. Same with Huk. As long as popularity holds, they are teflon (barring an Idra-level PR disaster). Like so many others have pointed out in this thread, people arguing about skill mattering in any significance are completely out of the loop and disconnected from the way these teams work. A player can be in bronze league and have potential for a team if said players proves that they have a following and a great personality. P.S. Alive is probably toast, because as most us know, his skill means almost nothing. He's just not popular enough or marketing himself well to foreign fans.
I highly doubt that anyone on EG is getting the axe. The last players not to get a contract offer were AxSlav and Strifecro, and that was two years ago? And we don't even know how there negotiations went...they could very well have gotten new contract offers.
EG has shown that they'll offer to renew contracts with basically everyone on the team, at what seems to be accurate market value.
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I really wonder how much Jaedong gets in a year from salary alone... as well as Hero and Taeja. As for Revival, aLive, and Oz, has EG actually promoted them that much since they were only acquired for PL?
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Would be awesome if he would join Prime. They have no good Zerg and since they will play ProLeague soon Revival would be an excellent addition to their team. But I doupt this will happen :-(
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On December 10 2013 04:31 Vorenius wrote:
That's part of it. Another part of it is the player's expectations. If Machine, iNcontrol, or Thorzain were on the same contract as Revival, getting the same salary, and expecting to go to the same tournaments, I have no doubt they would get cut as well.
It's all about understanding what your worth is to a team and then make a deal around that. To EG, Revival's worth isn't the same now as it was a year ago when he was getting better results and EG needed korean based players for PL. So it's either, take a pay cut and stop going to tournaments or try to find another team.
That's another part of it, I agree. We don't know the inner-workings of it all, but we have to assume that the responsibilities of the team also mean food, housing, travel and such for members. On top of that, some kind of salary. Anything less would be somewhat of a black eye on EG for treating it's players poorly, which they will not do.
The key is, considering what they get in return for exposure regarding Korean players like Revival, Oz and Alive, it probably just isn't worth it anymore to cover the expenses. I completely agree with you that pro-league was the reason they picked these guys up. It would have been great for EG to have a full team in Korea with that much exposure. But since that's gone now, I'm guessing that these guys will be gone soon, as well.
On December 10 2013 04:38 WolfintheSheep wrote:
I highly doubt that anyone on EG is getting the axe. The last players not to get a contract offer were AxSlav and Strifecro, and that was two years ago? And we don't even know how there negotiations went...they could very well have gotten new contract offers.
EG has shown that they'll offer to renew contracts with basically everyone on the team, at what seems to be accurate market value.
I disagree. I would speculate that Revival got axed against his will. I would say the same is going to happen to Alive, and he knows it. Otherwise, why would Revival not already have a team lined up if he chose to leave on his own? In addition, why would Alive be trying to contact Complexity publicly on twitter all of the sudden? It's speculation, but I think the entire Korean roster is going to get axed with the exception of Jaedong. And Puma was also axed not so long ago, if you remember. The Koreans have to add something particularly special for a team like EG to keep them on, as they don't have enough foreign fans to justify the investment. Stream numbers are a good indication of ROI for EG.
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Let's just point out that not having a contract renewed when it expires isn't the same as being 'axed', as you put it.
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On December 10 2013 05:11 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Let's just point out that not having a contract renewed when it expires isn't the same as being 'axed', as you put it.
Is "axed" the new "terminated" ?
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On December 10 2013 05:11 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Let's just point out that not having a contract renewed when it expires isn't the same as being 'axed', as you put it.
this completely. EG probably offered what they felt Revival was worth and Revival decided he'd rather go somewhere else where he was more valuable. I see why EG didn't want him that much anymore, they don't really do team leagues anymore and revival hasn't shown great results which is what he;d need to get the amount of popularity that EG would want.
As for Alive I'm not sure. He's been good but once again isn't really marketable and doesn't add anything to the EG brand so to speak as he hasn't had any great tournament results either. I still think he's the 2nd best player on EG atm but how much that really matters I don't know. Plus they have a lot of koreans that aren't really accomplishing anything so I could see them cutting a few.
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On December 10 2013 01:30 Lonyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 23:42 Irrational_Animal wrote:
38k should be a bit more than the typical young Korean who holds and BA degree and is working for a bigger company makes in his first year(s). Considering that he also got a lot of basic expenses covered (shelter, food, electricity/internet etc.) it`s not a bad deal. A Postdoc in Germany usually makes that much and they are in a later stage at their lives with much more responsibilities etc. It's not a long term benefit though. I would rather make $25k for 3 years while someone else made $38k because I will probably be making $50k while he's slipped back down the ladder and is making $30k. Someone who has a degree and a "real" job is in better position than someone playing e-Sports and having a low-ish level of success. Maybe if you are an MC or similar it's fine in the long run, but Revival is putting his long term career on hold.
My $130,000 useless degree begs to differ with your belief that a degree and a "real" job is in a better position than being a pro gamer. I'd gladly give this piece of paper up to make $6000 a year living in a cramped space playing video games all day.
My point is simply that nobody really knows what it's like for anyone else. I think that making 6k a year without any other obligations is a pretty decent salary for a young guy. There's no long term benefit unless he goes into eSports in the future, which is probably considerably easier as a former pro gamer than as a random westerner struggling to get their name out there, for example. There's nothing saying that he isn't considering this option.
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On December 10 2013 04:48 astray71 wrote:
I really wonder how much Jaedong gets in a year from salary alone... as well as Hero and Taeja. As for Revival, aLive, and Oz, has EG actually promoted them that much since they were only acquired for PL?
Would not surprise me in the slightest if JD had the highest salary of any player right now. With the money he made in BW and all the prize money from SC2, that dude is fucking stacked.
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On December 10 2013 05:11 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Let's just point out that not having a contract renewed when it expires isn't the same as being 'axed', as you put it.
True but "axed" sounds so much cooler for dramatic effect 
Let go, not able to come to an agreement, taking a different direction . . . all of these are probably much better descriptions, I agree.
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On December 10 2013 04:38 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 04:01 SCST wrote:On December 10 2013 02:53 seoul_kiM wrote:
EG needs quite the roster revamp soon, many of their players aren't inspiring anymore and many have lost a lot of popularity. It's not always about their records and accomplishments and some players bring more to the team than others in a diverse way.
Honestly, I would only keep Alive (consistency), Jaedong for their skills and Incontrol and maybe Machine for the work they do on the team and with the sponsors. Suppy has great potential so I'd keep him and perhaps Xeno but not sure if he has anything coming up for him. On the fence about players like Oz and DeMuslim. Thorzain and HuK are popular but they have waned in skill and Thorzain isn't even full time. EG can really acquire better players (altho some might need to be headhunted EG has the resources)
DeMuslim is one of the most popular Starcraft 2 players, period. Results don't mean much with that kind of popularity, so if you think EG will ever get rid of him keep dreaming. Same with Huk. As long as popularity holds, they are teflon (barring an Idra-level PR disaster). Like so many others have pointed out in this thread, people arguing about skill mattering in any significance are completely out of the loop and disconnected from the way these teams work. A player can be in bronze league and have potential for a team if said players proves that they have a following and a great personality. P.S. Alive is probably toast, because as most us know, his skill means almost nothing. He's just not popular enough or marketing himself well to foreign fans. I highly doubt that anyone on EG is getting the axe. The last players not to get a contract offer were AxSlav and Strifecro, and that was two years ago? And we don't even know how there negotiations went...they could very well have gotten new contract offers. EG has shown that they'll offer to renew contracts with basically everyone on the team, at what seems to be accurate market value.
If any team needs to spring clean the house, it would be EG.
They have been carrying Machine for moral support.
Without PL, there is no point in keeping JYP, aLive, and Oz for another year.
With the holiday hiatus, it is the perfect time for both players and team to move on.
There isn't really any point to foreign teams having a strong *aka Korean* line-up.
Signing weekend hero like Taeja or Stardust pays off much more for them.
Liquid had such a steal with Taeja, he is the perfect weekend hero.
Signed him when he was drastically improving, but couldn't get recognition on a Terran stacked team even with an outrageous record in ESV Korean Weekly.
Also, he is significantly worse in a prepared GSL setting.
And GSL was stagnant at the time because the Code S/A barrier was much larger than after rearrangement.
In terms of talent/player pool, ESV Korean Weekly was better than more than half of the premiere tournaments these day.
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On December 10 2013 06:00 TaishiCi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 04:38 WolfintheSheep wrote:On December 10 2013 04:01 SCST wrote:On December 10 2013 02:53 seoul_kiM wrote:
EG needs quite the roster revamp soon, many of their players aren't inspiring anymore and many have lost a lot of popularity. It's not always about their records and accomplishments and some players bring more to the team than others in a diverse way.
Honestly, I would only keep Alive (consistency), Jaedong for their skills and Incontrol and maybe Machine for the work they do on the team and with the sponsors. Suppy has great potential so I'd keep him and perhaps Xeno but not sure if he has anything coming up for him. On the fence about players like Oz and DeMuslim. Thorzain and HuK are popular but they have waned in skill and Thorzain isn't even full time. EG can really acquire better players (altho some might need to be headhunted EG has the resources)
DeMuslim is one of the most popular Starcraft 2 players, period. Results don't mean much with that kind of popularity, so if you think EG will ever get rid of him keep dreaming. Same with Huk. As long as popularity holds, they are teflon (barring an Idra-level PR disaster). Like so many others have pointed out in this thread, people arguing about skill mattering in any significance are completely out of the loop and disconnected from the way these teams work. A player can be in bronze league and have potential for a team if said players proves that they have a following and a great personality. P.S. Alive is probably toast, because as most us know, his skill means almost nothing. He's just not popular enough or marketing himself well to foreign fans. I highly doubt that anyone on EG is getting the axe. The last players not to get a contract offer were AxSlav and Strifecro, and that was two years ago? And we don't even know how there negotiations went...they could very well have gotten new contract offers. EG has shown that they'll offer to renew contracts with basically everyone on the team, at what seems to be accurate market value. If any team needs to spring clean the house, it would be EG. They have been carrying Machine for moral support. Without PL, there is no point in keeping JYP, aLive, and Oz for another year. With the holiday hiatus, it is the perfect time for both players and team to move on. There isn't really any point to foreign teams having a strong *aka Korean* line-up. Signing weekend hero like Taeja or Stardust pays off much more for them. Liquid had such a steal with Taeja, he is the perfect weekend hero. Signed him when he was drastically improving, but couldn't get recognition on a Terran stacked team even with an outrageous record in ESV Korean Weekly. Also, he is significantly worse in a prepared GSL setting. And GSL was stagnant at the time because the Code S/A barrier was much larger than after rearrangement. In terms of talent/player pool, ESV Korean Weekly was better than more than half of the premiere tournaments these day.
Lets not devolve this thread into you expressing your opinion that Taeja's two GSL semifinal runs mean nothing and keep it focused on the topic at hand . In other news I really hope that Revival finds a team soon (Azubu? :D) I also wouldn't read into the aLive/complexity tweet, but it is possible that the other under-appreciated Koreans on EG could end up moving on as well 
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He did ok, but without proleague it makes sense, it's not like he's a Korean that many people care about, and EG are notoriously more about characters than skill (not saying that's a good or a bad thing)
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On December 10 2013 03:16 HYRULE15 wrote:
Well, he accomplished much more than Machine, lets see what will happen in the future, good luck to him!
I thought that Machine was supposed to be the best player on EG in practice?
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EPT
