Evil Geniuses player Revival has left his team of 1 year and is now searching for a new team.
Acquired by EG in late 2012 to help bolster their efforts in the Proleague, Revival failed to deliver in that regard, finishing Proleague with a 8-16 record while EG-TL finished in last place.
However, Revival achieved great success in individual tournaments with the release of Heart of the Swarm, placing second place in the first WCS America and claiming the IEM Shanghai championship over players like Polt, MC, and Oz.
I'd actually have expected him to retire if anything, at this point. He got a championship with EG in the last year and has been able to attend a fair few tournaments. Not sure what else he could prefer? A return to the rigors of a Korean team? Maybe EG not giving him what he has been getting. Whoooo knows.
Revival hasn't even been good individually since WCS Season One. Unless I'm mistaken the last match he played was when Nani manhandled him in the Blizzcon tiebreaker
Wouldn't be surprised if EG didn't resign aLive and Oz as well. Focusing on promoting their brand through Jaedong only is the better business move to make at this point.
On December 09 2013 12:20 Noocta wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if EG didn't resign aLive and Oz as well. Focusing on promoting their brand through Jaedong only is the better business move to make at this point.
I bet they keep alive, he's had good results and is their Terran ace
Even if Revival didn't pan out in PL, just as WaxAngel noted he got plenty of positive press throughout the year with WCS and IEM, I guess this move seems strange since to me it looked like having Revival on board was good for both parties. Oh well, best of luck Revival! :D
I was going to make a thread yesterday when I found out during his stream, but I figured I'd wait for EG to release a statement/someone else to make a thread about it.
Maybe he felt really overshadowed by Jaedong. Felt like the "other" EG zerg and didnt really like it. Hopefully Alive and Oz stay, since they are clearly the best T and P on the team respectively. GL to Revival!
Someone previously stated that they guess he will go to woongjin stars. Even though I am of the crowd who believes EG is the best possible team to be on, this would be a justifiable move by revival. On Woongjin, he would be playing beside the other best zerg in the world (soulkey), and he would have a great protoss practice partner on his team, sOs, unlike EG. But really, in starcraft, I don't think finding a consistent practice partner is the biggest issue nor a factor to make one leave a team. It doesn't make sense that EG would release Revival, as Revival has had great results, as the OP mentioned. I predict the grimmest of all possibilities, and that is, retirement.
On December 09 2013 13:05 zelevin wrote: Someone previously stated that they guess he will go to woongjin stars. Even though I am of the crowd who believes EG is the best possible team to be on, this would be a justifiable move by revival. On Woongjin, he would be playing beside the other best zerg in the world (soulkey), and he would have a great protoss practice partner on his team, sOs, unlike EG. But really, in starcraft, I don't think finding a consistent practice partner is the biggest issue nor a factor to make one leave a team. It doesn't make sense that EG would release Revival, as Revival has had great results, as the OP mentioned. I predict the grimmest of all possibilities, and that is, retirement.
As far as I know Woongjin won't be playing in proleague, and won't have enough players even with Revival.
man if eg ever somehow bought flash omg lol that be amazing! but sad too him go, jd really became the face of eg, i wonder if that affects the other Koreans in eg hopefully in a good way.
Seems like there was some sort of disagreement between Revival and EG. I don't see why EG would drop him since he was doing well this year after a slow start. Maybe he wanted a larger salary or something. I hope he joins a KeSPA team and plays in proleague he would be a strong core player on many teams.
On December 09 2013 12:44 Elite_ wrote: I was going to make a thread yesterday when I found out during his stream, but I figured I'd wait for EG to release a statement/someone else to make a thread about it.
Sad to hear this; I wish Revival the best of luck in the future
On December 09 2013 13:09 vik7 wrote: man if eg ever somehow bought flash omg lol that be amazing! but sad too him go, jd really became the face of eg, i wonder if that affects the other Koreans in eg hopefully in a good way.
There's no point in buying Flash if he hasn't come close to getting any results the past year.
On December 09 2013 13:12 HotGlueGun wrote: Seems like there was some sort of disagreement between Revival and EG. I don't see why EG would drop him since he was doing well this year after a slow start. Maybe he wanted a larger salary or something. I hope he joins a KeSPA team and plays in proleague he would be a strong core player on many teams.
Well, I found Revival quite unprofessional when he revealed that he was only getting $400~500 a month to his ex-teammates. He also called EG a trash team because they didn't give him online tournament schedules (when he could actually find it himself) and such.
On December 09 2013 13:09 vik7 wrote: man if eg ever somehow bought flash omg lol that be amazing! but sad too him go, jd really became the face of eg, i wonder if that affects the other Koreans in eg hopefully in a good way.
There's no point in buying Flash if he hasn't come close to getting any results the past year.
Having flash and Jaedong on the same team would always be worth it.
On December 09 2013 13:12 HotGlueGun wrote: Seems like there was some sort of disagreement between Revival and EG. I don't see why EG would drop him since he was doing well this year after a slow start. Maybe he wanted a larger salary or something. I hope he joins a KeSPA team and plays in proleague he would be a strong core player on many teams.
Well, I found Revival quite unprofessional when he revealed that he was only getting $400~500 a month to his ex-teammates. He also called EG a trash team because they didn't give him online tournament schedules (when he could actually find it himself) and such.
Well both Oz and Revival seemed like contracts for Proleauge. Wouldn't surprise me if they leave now that there is no EG-TL or EG in the winter season.
On December 09 2013 13:12 HotGlueGun wrote: Seems like there was some sort of disagreement between Revival and EG. I don't see why EG would drop him since he was doing well this year after a slow start. Maybe he wanted a larger salary or something. I hope he joins a KeSPA team and plays in proleague he would be a strong core player on many teams.
Well, I found Revival quite unprofessional when he revealed that he was only getting $400~500 a month to his ex-teammates. He also called EG a trash team because they didn't give him online tournament schedules (when he could actually find it himself) and such.
On December 09 2013 13:12 HotGlueGun wrote: Seems like there was some sort of disagreement between Revival and EG. I don't see why EG would drop him since he was doing well this year after a slow start. Maybe he wanted a larger salary or something. I hope he joins a KeSPA team and plays in proleague he would be a strong core player on many teams.
Well, I found Revival quite unprofessional when he revealed that he was only getting $400~500 a month to his ex-teammates. He also called EG a trash team because they didn't give him online tournament schedules (when he could actually find it himself) and such.
On December 09 2013 13:12 HotGlueGun wrote: Seems like there was some sort of disagreement between Revival and EG. I don't see why EG would drop him since he was doing well this year after a slow start. Maybe he wanted a larger salary or something. I hope he joins a KeSPA team and plays in proleague he would be a strong core player on many teams.
Well, I found Revival quite unprofessional when he revealed that he was only getting $400~500 a month to his ex-teammates. He also called EG a trash team because they didn't give him online tournament schedules (when he could actually find it himself) and such.
Man, sad to hear it didn't work out for Revival and EG. I hope he joins an international team, he's pretty good at farming those international events IMO! I'm a bit sad that EG isn't trying to keep a solid core in Korea for team leagues (whether GSTL or Proleague), it would be so much more interesting if they did that. I do hope they keep the rest of the Korean squad because Jaedong needs company.
I think this is probably a good thing if he can find a team that supports him more. I enjoy watching his stream because he has a different style of Zerg than most others, and he uses interesting tactics. It would be great to see him on a team with proper coaching and environment.
On December 09 2013 13:12 HotGlueGun wrote: Seems like there was some sort of disagreement between Revival and EG. I don't see why EG would drop him since he was doing well this year after a slow start. Maybe he wanted a larger salary or something. I hope he joins a KeSPA team and plays in proleague he would be a strong core player on many teams.
Well, I found Revival quite unprofessional when he revealed that he was only getting $400~500 a month to his ex-teammates. He also called EG a trash team because they didn't give him online tournament schedules (when he could actually find it himself) and such.
I'll take your word for it on the translation. Wonder why I've never heard of this.
Posted on a Korean forum by Koreans? Not really a surprise. Especially DCgall, its like the Korean 4chan. I don't think a lot of non-Korean people would frequent that site..
On December 09 2013 13:12 HotGlueGun wrote: Seems like there was some sort of disagreement between Revival and EG. I don't see why EG would drop him since he was doing well this year after a slow start. Maybe he wanted a larger salary or something. I hope he joins a KeSPA team and plays in proleague he would be a strong core player on many teams.
Well, I found Revival quite unprofessional when he revealed that he was only getting $400~500 a month to his ex-teammates. He also called EG a trash team because they didn't give him online tournament schedules (when he could actually find it himself) and such.
I'll take your word for it on the translation. Wonder why I've never heard of this.
Posted on a Korean forum by Koreans? Not really a surprise. Especially DCgall, its like the Korean 4chan. I don't think a lot of non-Korean people would frequent that site..
I am curious, is the Korean SC2 community more active than TeamLiquid and reddit?
Well Revival was at his "prime" when EG acquired him, but as of late he doesn't seem to have that much of a dominating presence like many of his other Zerg competitions.
On December 09 2013 13:12 HotGlueGun wrote: Seems like there was some sort of disagreement between Revival and EG. I don't see why EG would drop him since he was doing well this year after a slow start. Maybe he wanted a larger salary or something. I hope he joins a KeSPA team and plays in proleague he would be a strong core player on many teams.
Well, I found Revival quite unprofessional when he revealed that he was only getting $400~500 a month to his ex-teammates. He also called EG a trash team because they didn't give him online tournament schedules (when he could actually find it himself) and such.
Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG!
On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote: Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG!
Because one of the 6 Zergs to win a championship in HotS is definitely one with poor results.
EG figuring out that Koreans don't market well in the U.S./Europe unless it's someone who makes the effort to connect to non-Korean fans. The only surprising aspect of this to me is that it's taken them this long to figure it out. Expect similar actions by TL and other foreign teams in the future as they consolidate their non-Korean talent. People just aren't interested in many Koreans outside of the superstars - really has nothing to do with the skill of the player. Sponsors and fans pull the strings in the end.
On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote: Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG!
What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it.
On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote: Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG!
Because one of the 6 Zergs to win a championship in HotS is definitely one with poor results.
He has a 52.5% winrate according to TLPD, plus he plays versus a lot of foreigners. I'd consider this very poor for what he should be expected to do if he's on EG. This is a breakdown of his last few results descending from newest:
Revival 0:3 Naniwa Revival 2:0 JonSnow Revival 0:2 Taeja Revival 2:0 SelecT Revival 0:2 Arthur Revival 0:2 sOs Revival 2:1 HuK Revival 0:2 San Revival 1:2 Polt Revival 0:2 Sage Revival 0:1 Paranoid Revival 0:1 Hero Revival 0:1 Snute Revival 1:2 Arthur
I could keep going. Point is, since WCS S1 his performance drastically dropped off. He has not had a series win vs a Korean since August 2013, and he's dropping games vs foreigners. Since September 2013 (almost last 4 months) his most impressive result has probably been taking a game of Polt or beating Huk 2-1. (I mean I know it comes off sour, but this industry is just not big enough to support players like that. In UFC you lose 3 fights and you're gone, career over. If you achieve nothing in 4 months in SC2, no team will want to play you. They don't have money to go around to a player that gives them nothing back).
Make something more of yourself and get the results in instead of bitching about the fact that you have an actual paycheck as opposed to most former eSF players who haven't already retired yet.
As much as people like to bag on Zenio, at least he has the right idea in mind when he's grateful to the opportunity he has being on a big foreigner team, and is practicing hard to get the results he feels he needs to bring in for his team.
On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote: Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG!
What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it.
Just from reading previous interviews with him it's the kind of impression I have. I don't have any specific examples, but I remember "don't cheer for this guy" in my head for whatever reasons he erks me - even though overall I like EG.
What kind of salaries do you expect players get? I agree, 6k is pretty poor. But how many players do you think get paid more than 20k a year? I'd say less than 30 in SC2 (likely closer to 10-15). And Revival in my eyes is definitely out of Top 30.
Edit: Only 28 players in SC2 have earned over 30k in 2013. EG players get to keep all their winnings. Revival has made 32k. So Revival's yearly earnings are 38k a year. Is that bad? Not very sustainable in a First World country... But seems to be above reasonable based on his level of skill. (Ranked 101 ELO based on TLPD?).
On December 09 2013 11:38 blade55555 wrote: Hm to be honest I wouldn't be that surprised end of the year and no proleague, I imagine oz is going to leave as well.
Nah I'd bet Oz stays on. Probably aLive too imo. Wouldn't be surprised if JYP got the axe though.
People need to realize that this is different from BW. In Broodwar a salary like $500 a month would be very poor even if there were individual leagues (osl, msl ) but there are tons of tourneys outside korea which Revival got to participate in because he was on a foreigner team,a chance that even a lot of top tier koreans don't get. Don't forget there is also streaming. My point is, if you want to earn $$ in esports, either market yourself well by becoming a personality or get good at the game.
On December 09 2013 13:12 HotGlueGun wrote: Seems like there was some sort of disagreement between Revival and EG. I don't see why EG would drop him since he was doing well this year after a slow start. Maybe he wanted a larger salary or something. I hope he joins a KeSPA team and plays in proleague he would be a strong core player on many teams.
Well, I found Revival quite unprofessional when he revealed that he was only getting $400~500 a month to his ex-teammates. He also called EG a trash team because they didn't give him online tournament schedules (when he could actually find it himself) and such.
I'll take your word for it on the translation. Wonder why I've never heard of this.
I'll just translate what revival wrote.
Revival: Where do I register?
Revival: Our team (EGTL, EG whatever...) doesnt even tell us about these things..
Revival: It's a fucking trash team.
me thinks its not known to the foreign community because no one really cares about him...
It sounds like one of the risks/issues with having your management core in another country with a different primary language. Teams like EG and TL have translators and Koreans managers, but that can really only go so far (unless they still had the house up and running with the staff that was present).
On December 09 2013 15:53 mongmong wrote: People need to realize that this is different from BW. In Broodwar a salary like $500 a month would be very poor even if there were individual leagues (osl, msl ) but there are tons of tourneys outside korea which Revival got to participate in because he was on a foreigner team,a chance that even a lot of top tier koreans don't get. Don't forget there is also streaming. My point is, if you want to earn $$ in esports, either market yourself well by becoming a personality or get good at the game.
I agree with you except the part of salaries in BW. In BW a B-teamer received a salary of $500/month. That's a very reasonable amount. From what I remember Jaedong was getting like 65,000,000 won at one point (60k/year), and that's when he rebelled or whatever. Eventually he got higher. Flash got paid $200k-250k, Bisu and Stork were at 150k~, and top players like Kal, Calm, etc got paid 60k-70k. An A-class player like Hyuk, Shuttle, Modesty, Hiya, etc likely received around 20-30k/year. B-teamers and practice partners often received 10k or less, sometimes even doing it for free.
Revival is not really an A-teamer, and if so, he is a lower end one. However earning in SC2 are more compared to the 28k for winning the OSL. (I remember this figure from 2009 or so from some article GTR posted), and so, the salaries between SC2 and BW pros are very even.
On December 09 2013 16:44 Antisocialmunky wrote: Well everyone who ends up on a Team with Jaedong looks like an A-Teamer at best by comparison, FiWiFaKi.
S- class = OSL/MSL winners, and other very notable achievements. A team's ace. Top A- class = Isolated OSL/MSL win case, or some other high-tournament placing. Get sent out every Proleague match. Low A- class = An occasional placing in Ro16 of OSL/MSL, usually is sent out during Proleague. B- class = Struggles through individual league qualifiers and maybe has achieved a Ro36 OSL; gets sent out 10-20% of proleague matches. C- class = Never sent out in pro-league, plays in some shitty non-OSL/MSL tournament trying to make a name for themselves, possibly acts as a practice partner to Kespa players but not on a Kespa team.
I think according to this criteria which is something which I think is accepted by BW fans more or less, Revival would be a Low A - class player.
On December 09 2013 15:53 mongmong wrote: People need to realize that this is different from BW. In Broodwar a salary like $500 a month would be very poor even if there were individual leagues (osl, msl ) but there are tons of tourneys outside korea which Revival got to participate in because he was on a foreigner team,a chance that even a lot of top tier koreans don't get. Don't forget there is also streaming. My point is, if you want to earn $$ in esports, either market yourself well by becoming a personality or get good at the game.
I agree with you except the part of salaries in BW. In BW a B-teamer received a salary of $500/month. That's a very reasonable amount. From what I remember Jaedong was getting like 65,000,000 won at one point (60k/year), and that's when he rebelled or whatever. Eventually he got higher. Flash got paid $200k-250k, Bisu and Stork were at 150k~, and top players like Kal, Calm, etc got paid 60k-70k. An A-class player like Hyuk, Shuttle, Modesty, Hiya, etc likely received around 20-30k/year. B-teamers and practice partners often received 10k or less, sometimes even doing it for free.
Revival is not really an A-teamer, and if so, he is a lower end one. However earning in SC2 are more compared to the 28k for winning the OSL. (I remember this figure from 2009 or so from some article GTR posted), and so, the salaries between SC2 and BW pros are very even.
I don't really get the B teamer part.. What exactly do you mean by a b teamer? Because LiquidHero back in Hwaseung was in a B- team and stated that he had made $200 in two years. Salary for B-teamers was almost non-exsistent (although you could argue it depends on which team you are on). I dont think teams apart from SKT, KT and CJ paid 500/month to B teamers. Btw, Stork was paid significantly less than (around 90k/year at max) other members of TBLS.
On December 09 2013 15:53 mongmong wrote: People need to realize that this is different from BW. In Broodwar a salary like $500 a month would be very poor even if there were individual leagues (osl, msl ) but there are tons of tourneys outside korea which Revival got to participate in because he was on a foreigner team,a chance that even a lot of top tier koreans don't get. Don't forget there is also streaming. My point is, if you want to earn $$ in esports, either market yourself well by becoming a personality or get good at the game.
I agree with you except the part of salaries in BW. In BW a B-teamer received a salary of $500/month. That's a very reasonable amount. From what I remember Jaedong was getting like 65,000,000 won at one point (60k/year), and that's when he rebelled or whatever. Eventually he got higher. Flash got paid $200k-250k, Bisu and Stork were at 150k~, and top players like Kal, Calm, etc got paid 60k-70k. An A-class player like Hyuk, Shuttle, Modesty, Hiya, etc likely received around 20-30k/year. B-teamers and practice partners often received 10k or less, sometimes even doing it for free.
Revival is not really an A-teamer, and if so, he is a lower end one. However earning in SC2 are more compared to the 28k for winning the OSL. (I remember this figure from 2009 or so from some article GTR posted), and so, the salaries between SC2 and BW pros are very even.
I don't really get the B teamer part.. What exactly do you mean by a b teamer? Because LiquidHero back in Hwaseung was in a B- team and stated that he had made $200 in two years. Salary for B-teamers was almost non-exsistent (although you could argue it depends on which team you are on). I dont think teams apart from SKT, KT and CJ paid 500/month to B teamers. Btw, Stork was paid significantly less than (around 90k/year at max) other members of TBLS.
That's why I said 10,000k or less. Hwaseung wasn't one of the richest teams, that's for sure. STX, KT, Stars, and SKT seemed to have the highest salaries. Again, I just remember old articles on teamliquid, and the players that didn't appear in the proleague usually received salaries of less than 10,000. I'm sure some received next to zero, but at the same time... I'm sure someone like SKT paid their 8th or 10th best player more than $100 a year.
On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote: Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG!
What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it.
Just from reading previous interviews with him it's the kind of impression I have. I don't have any specific examples, but I remember "don't cheer for this guy" in my head for whatever reasons he erks me - even though overall I like EG.
What kind of salaries do you expect players get? I agree, 6k is pretty poor. But how many players do you think get paid more than 20k a year? I'd say less than 30 in SC2 (likely closer to 10-15). And Revival in my eyes is definitely out of Top 30.
Edit: Only 28 players in SC2 have earned over 30k in 2013. EG players get to keep all their winnings. Revival has made 32k. So Revival's yearly earnings are 38k a year. Is that bad? Not very sustainable in a First World country... But seems to be above reasonable based on his level of skill. (Ranked 101 ELO based on TLPD?).
Depends on the team but one would think that one of the richest esports team should be able to pay their players more than that. He might not be a fan favorite but he has still done well for their brand. Shady esports is shady I guess.
I think this may end up being a good move for Revival as far as environment, but I'm still very sad about the way his time on EG (besides his IEM win, WCS 2nd, and earning enough points to tie for 16th over the course of 2013) turned out and how the fans treated him while he was in the spotlight. The reason I say that is he seemed kind of like the loner of EGTL, rarely pictured with his teammates traveling or hanging out. (I'm sure someone will post 58436 pics to make me sound dumb). But besides that he's undervalued by fans. Whenever he streams his numbers are so low, even when (and this happens a lot) he is by far the best player streaming representing a foreign team. Hope he lands in a place where he can get some more love.
On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote: Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG!
What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it.
Just from reading previous interviews with him it's the kind of impression I have. I don't have any specific examples, but I remember "don't cheer for this guy" in my head for whatever reasons he erks me - even though overall I like EG.
What kind of salaries do you expect players get? I agree, 6k is pretty poor. But how many players do you think get paid more than 20k a year? I'd say less than 30 in SC2 (likely closer to 10-15). And Revival in my eyes is definitely out of Top 30.
Edit: Only 28 players in SC2 have earned over 30k in 2013. EG players get to keep all their winnings. Revival has made 32k. So Revival's yearly earnings are 38k a year. Is that bad? Not very sustainable in a First World country... But seems to be above reasonable based on his level of skill. (Ranked 101 ELO based on TLPD?).
Depends on the team but one would think that one of the richest esports team should be able to pay their players more than that. He might not be a fan favorite but he has still done well for their brand. Shady esports is shady I guess.
Well Revival was a player with almost no achievements when he signed contracts with EG. It seems pretty reasonable to me because he got opportunities to travel and compete in foreign tourneys..
Hopefully he'll find a new team and won't have to retire, I never really followed him tbh, didn't rate him highly but I thought he had done well in WCS America while at EG.
On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote: Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG!
What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it.
Just from reading previous interviews with him it's the kind of impression I have. I don't have any specific examples, but I remember "don't cheer for this guy" in my head for whatever reasons he erks me - even though overall I like EG.
What kind of salaries do you expect players get? I agree, 6k is pretty poor. But how many players do you think get paid more than 20k a year? I'd say less than 30 in SC2 (likely closer to 10-15). And Revival in my eyes is definitely out of Top 30.
Edit: Only 28 players in SC2 have earned over 30k in 2013. EG players get to keep all their winnings. Revival has made 32k. So Revival's yearly earnings are 38k a year. Is that bad? Not very sustainable in a First World country... But seems to be above reasonable based on his level of skill. (Ranked 101 ELO based on TLPD?).
Depends on the team but one would think that one of the richest esports team should be able to pay their players more than that. He might not be a fan favorite but he has still done well for their brand. Shady esports is shady I guess.
Being young and paid very little in order to persue a dream that is unlikely to come true is a pattern you see in pretty much the entire entertainment industry.
On December 09 2013 16:44 Antisocialmunky wrote: Well everyone who ends up on a Team with Jaedong looks like an A-Teamer at best by comparison, FiWiFaKi.
S- class = OSL/MSL winners, and other very notable achievements. A team's ace. Top A- class = Isolated OSL/MSL win case, or some other high-tournament placing. Get sent out every Proleague match. Low A- class = An occasional placing in Ro16 of OSL/MSL, usually is sent out during Proleague. B- class = Struggles through individual league qualifiers and maybe has achieved a Ro36 OSL; gets sent out 10-20% of proleague matches. C- class = Never sent out in pro-league, plays in some shitty non-OSL/MSL tournament trying to make a name for themselves, possibly acts as a practice partner to Kespa players but not on a Kespa team.
I think according to this criteria which is something which I think is accepted by BW fans more or less, Revival would be a Low A - class player.
On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote: Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG!
What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it.
Just from reading previous interviews with him it's the kind of impression I have. I don't have any specific examples, but I remember "don't cheer for this guy" in my head for whatever reasons he erks me - even though overall I like EG.
What kind of salaries do you expect players get? I agree, 6k is pretty poor. But how many players do you think get paid more than 20k a year? I'd say less than 30 in SC2 (likely closer to 10-15). And Revival in my eyes is definitely out of Top 30.
Edit: Only 28 players in SC2 have earned over 30k in 2013. EG players get to keep all their winnings. Revival has made 32k. So Revival's yearly earnings are 38k a year. Is that bad? Not very sustainable in a First World country... But seems to be above reasonable based on his level of skill. (Ranked 101 ELO based on TLPD?).
Depends on the team but one would think that one of the richest esports team should be able to pay their players more than that. He might not be a fan favorite but he has still done well for their brand. Shady esports is shady I guess.
Absolutely nothing shady about it. That's what most players are (unfortunately) worth to teams in terms of ROI.
EG might be the "richest", but it also relies solely on player marketing for every cent of sponsorship money. Unlike teams like Acer or Team Liquid, which are backed by revenue sources not dependent on player followings, or even teams like Axiom which is knowingly run at a loss, EG has to hope the ROI from a contract term is at least a net zero. And they apparently use a shit-ton of metrics to valuate an appropriate salary.
And a salary like $6000 might sound low, but the full investment on him is probably closer to 30k-40k for all travel and accommodations over the year.
On December 09 2013 16:44 Antisocialmunky wrote: Well everyone who ends up on a Team with Jaedong looks like an A-Teamer at best by comparison, FiWiFaKi.
S- class = OSL/MSL winners, and other very notable achievements. A team's ace. Top A- class = Isolated OSL/MSL win case, or some other high-tournament placing. Get sent out every Proleague match. Low A- class = An occasional placing in Ro16 of OSL/MSL, usually is sent out during Proleague. B- class = Struggles through individual league qualifiers and maybe has achieved a Ro36 OSL; gets sent out 10-20% of proleague matches. C- class = Never sent out in pro-league, plays in some shitty non-OSL/MSL tournament trying to make a name for themselves, possibly acts as a practice partner to Kespa players but not on a Kespa team.
I think according to this criteria which is something which I think is accepted by BW fans more or less, Revival would be a Low A - class player.
Boxer disapproves this post.
Sad to see Revival get enough exposure T.T
I just decided to put the 2008+ BW era, since I'm not very familiar with the stuff beforehand, and also the list would have been far too long. Plus there would be multiple era's, so while someone like July may have been legendary in 2007, he was pretty subpar in say 2010, etc.
On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote: Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG!
What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it.
Just from reading previous interviews with him it's the kind of impression I have. I don't have any specific examples, but I remember "don't cheer for this guy" in my head for whatever reasons he erks me - even though overall I like EG.
What kind of salaries do you expect players get? I agree, 6k is pretty poor. But how many players do you think get paid more than 20k a year? I'd say less than 30 in SC2 (likely closer to 10-15). And Revival in my eyes is definitely out of Top 30.
Edit: Only 28 players in SC2 have earned over 30k in 2013. EG players get to keep all their winnings. Revival has made 32k. So Revival's yearly earnings are 38k a year. Is that bad? Not very sustainable in a First World country... But seems to be above reasonable based on his level of skill. (Ranked 101 ELO based on TLPD?).
Depends on the team but one would think that one of the richest esports team should be able to pay their players more than that. He might not be a fan favorite but he has still done well for their brand. Shady esports is shady I guess.
Absolutely nothing shady about it. That's what most players are (unfortunately) worth to teams in terms of ROI.
EG might be the "richest", but it also relies solely on player marketing for every cent of sponsorship money. Unlike teams like Acer or Team Liquid, which are backed by revenue sources not dependent on player followings, or even teams like Axiom which is knowingly run at a loss, EG has to hope the ROI from a contract term is at least a net zero. And they apparently use a shit-ton of metrics to valuate an appropriate salary.
And a salary like $6000 might sound low, but the full investment on him is probably closer to 30k-40k for all travel and accommodations over the year.
Exactly, it doesn't matter how rich the team is. It's not like a team that has a larger revenue can offer a player 4x more just cause. If they have no way of advertising a player better than other teams, than the salary offered by the team will be the same as the salary offered by other teams. The only reason why EG is able to offer such high-salaries to some players is because they are able to market their own players and brand so much better than any other team. However marketing a Korean player with unoriginal style and lackluster performance is difficult, as he has nothing to differentiate him from the typical "faceless korean". That's why a lot of Korean players have an extreme difficulty gaining popularity until they are the best of the best, because before that, they don't have many opportunities to show how they are different or how they are likable people.
For example I'm sure Teamliquid has this problem with Zenio. He doesn't stand out from the crowd, and his performance isn't great enough for people to turn their heads. Only players that have a very outgoing personality, defining features, speak English, or play very well become popular. Players like MC, Nestea, Polt, Life, Maru, Jaedong, Marineking become popular, while others do not.
On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote: Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG!
What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it.
Just from reading previous interviews with him it's the kind of impression I have. I don't have any specific examples, but I remember "don't cheer for this guy" in my head for whatever reasons he erks me - even though overall I like EG.
What kind of salaries do you expect players get? I agree, 6k is pretty poor. But how many players do you think get paid more than 20k a year? I'd say less than 30 in SC2 (likely closer to 10-15). And Revival in my eyes is definitely out of Top 30.
Edit: Only 28 players in SC2 have earned over 30k in 2013. EG players get to keep all their winnings. Revival has made 32k. So Revival's yearly earnings are 38k a year. Is that bad? Not very sustainable in a First World country... But seems to be above reasonable based on his level of skill. (Ranked 101 ELO based on TLPD?).
Depends on the team but one would think that one of the richest esports team should be able to pay their players more than that. He might not be a fan favorite but he has still done well for their brand. Shady esports is shady I guess.
Absolutely nothing shady about it. That's what most players are (unfortunately) worth to teams in terms of ROI.
EG might be the "richest", but it also relies solely on player marketing for every cent of sponsorship money. Unlike teams like Acer or Team Liquid, which are backed by revenue sources not dependent on player followings, or even teams like Axiom which is knowingly run at a loss, EG has to hope the ROI from a contract term is at least a net zero. And they apparently use a shit-ton of metrics to valuate an appropriate salary.
And a salary like $6000 might sound low, but the full investment on him is probably closer to 30k-40k for all travel and accommodations over the year.
Exactly, it doesn't matter how rich the team is. It's not like a team that has a larger revenue can offer a player 4x more just cause. If they have no way of advertising a player better than other teams, than the salary offered by the team will be the same as the salary offered by other teams. The only reason why EG is able to offer such high-salaries to some players is because they are able to market their own players and brand so much better than any other team. However marketing a Korean player with unoriginal style and lackluster performance is difficult, as he has nothing to differentiate him from the typical "faceless korean". That's why a lot of Korean players have an extreme difficulty gaining popularity until they are the best of the best, because before that, they don't have many opportunities to show how they are different or how they are likable people.
For example I'm sure Teamliquid has this problem with Zenio. He doesn't stand out from the crowd, and his performance isn't great enough for people to turn their heads. Only players that have a very outgoing personality, defining features, speak English, or play very well become popular. Players like MC, Nestea, Polt, Life, Maru, Jaedong, Marineking become popular, while others do not.
Liquid'Hero please. He is a great example of a typical, shy korean player who gains confidence and interacts more and more in English with his fans :-)
On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote: Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG!
What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it.
Just from reading previous interviews with him it's the kind of impression I have. I don't have any specific examples, but I remember "don't cheer for this guy" in my head for whatever reasons he erks me - even though overall I like EG.
What kind of salaries do you expect players get? I agree, 6k is pretty poor. But how many players do you think get paid more than 20k a year? I'd say less than 30 in SC2 (likely closer to 10-15). And Revival in my eyes is definitely out of Top 30.
Edit: Only 28 players in SC2 have earned over 30k in 2013. EG players get to keep all their winnings. Revival has made 32k. So Revival's yearly earnings are 38k a year. Is that bad? Not very sustainable in a First World country... But seems to be above reasonable based on his level of skill. (Ranked 101 ELO based on TLPD?).
Depends on the team but one would think that one of the richest esports team should be able to pay their players more than that. He might not be a fan favorite but he has still done well for their brand. Shady esports is shady I guess.
Absolutely nothing shady about it. That's what most players are (unfortunately) worth to teams in terms of ROI.
EG might be the "richest", but it also relies solely on player marketing for every cent of sponsorship money. Unlike teams like Acer or Team Liquid, which are backed by revenue sources not dependent on player followings, or even teams like Axiom which is knowingly run at a loss, EG has to hope the ROI from a contract term is at least a net zero. And they apparently use a shit-ton of metrics to valuate an appropriate salary.
And a salary like $6000 might sound low, but the full investment on him is probably closer to 30k-40k for all travel and accommodations over the year.
Exactly, it doesn't matter how rich the team is. It's not like a team that has a larger revenue can offer a player 4x more just cause. If they have no way of advertising a player better than other teams, than the salary offered by the team will be the same as the salary offered by other teams. The only reason why EG is able to offer such high-salaries to some players is because they are able to market their own players and brand so much better than any other team. However marketing a Korean player with unoriginal style and lackluster performance is difficult, as he has nothing to differentiate him from the typical "faceless korean". That's why a lot of Korean players have an extreme difficulty gaining popularity until they are the best of the best, because before that, they don't have many opportunities to show how they are different or how they are likable people.
For example I'm sure Teamliquid has this problem with Zenio. He doesn't stand out from the crowd, and his performance isn't great enough for people to turn their heads. Only players that have a very outgoing personality, defining features, speak English, or play very well become popular. Players like MC, Nestea, Polt, Life, Maru, Jaedong, Marineking become popular, while others do not.
Liquid'Hero please. He is a great example of a typical, shy korean player who gains confidence and interacts more and more in English with his fans :-)
But he was able to achieve this by winning a lot. By winning a lot you get more time to expose your personality and show the audience the kind of player you are. Revival has not had this chance... And I think LiquidHero is naturally just more friendly and lovable opposed to Revival. Taeja is like that too, he's just so damn cute and people love him. Revival doesn't scream "cute" to me, and even if he was, he doesn't have the chance to display it.
On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote: Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG!
What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it.
Just from reading previous interviews with him it's the kind of impression I have. I don't have any specific examples, but I remember "don't cheer for this guy" in my head for whatever reasons he erks me - even though overall I like EG.
What kind of salaries do you expect players get? I agree, 6k is pretty poor. But how many players do you think get paid more than 20k a year? I'd say less than 30 in SC2 (likely closer to 10-15). And Revival in my eyes is definitely out of Top 30.
Edit: Only 28 players in SC2 have earned over 30k in 2013. EG players get to keep all their winnings. Revival has made 32k. So Revival's yearly earnings are 38k a year. Is that bad? Not very sustainable in a First World country... But seems to be above reasonable based on his level of skill. (Ranked 101 ELO based on TLPD?).
Depends on the team but one would think that one of the richest esports team should be able to pay their players more than that. He might not be a fan favorite but he has still done well for their brand. Shady esports is shady I guess.
Absolutely nothing shady about it. That's what most players are (unfortunately) worth to teams in terms of ROI.
EG might be the "richest", but it also relies solely on player marketing for every cent of sponsorship money. Unlike teams like Acer or Team Liquid, which are backed by revenue sources not dependent on player followings, or even teams like Axiom which is knowingly run at a loss, EG has to hope the ROI from a contract term is at least a net zero. And they apparently use a shit-ton of metrics to valuate an appropriate salary.
And a salary like $6000 might sound low, but the full investment on him is probably closer to 30k-40k for all travel and accommodations over the year.
Exactly, it doesn't matter how rich the team is. It's not like a team that has a larger revenue can offer a player 4x more just cause. If they have no way of advertising a player better than other teams, than the salary offered by the team will be the same as the salary offered by other teams. The only reason why EG is able to offer such high-salaries to some players is because they are able to market their own players and brand so much better than any other team. However marketing a Korean player with unoriginal style and lackluster performance is difficult, as he has nothing to differentiate him from the typical "faceless korean". That's why a lot of Korean players have an extreme difficulty gaining popularity until they are the best of the best, because before that, they don't have many opportunities to show how they are different or how they are likable people.
For example I'm sure Teamliquid has this problem with Zenio. He doesn't stand out from the crowd, and his performance isn't great enough for people to turn their heads. Only players that have a very outgoing personality, defining features, speak English, or play very well become popular. Players like MC, Nestea, Polt, Life, Maru, Jaedong, Marineking become popular, while others do not.
Liquid'Hero please. He is a great example of a typical, shy korean player who gains confidence and interacts more and more in English with his fans :-)
But he was able to achieve this by winning a lot. By winning a lot you get more time to expose your personality and show the audience the kind of player you are. Revival has not had this chance... And I think LiquidHero is naturally just more friendly and lovable opposed to Revival. Taeja is like that too, he's just so damn cute and people love him. Revival doesn't scream "cute" to me, and even if he was, he doesn't have the chance to display it.
Indeed. Revival just doesnt seem likable compared to Taeja and Hero.
On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote: Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG!
What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it.
Just from reading previous interviews with him it's the kind of impression I have. I don't have any specific examples, but I remember "don't cheer for this guy" in my head for whatever reasons he erks me - even though overall I like EG.
What kind of salaries do you expect players get? I agree, 6k is pretty poor. But how many players do you think get paid more than 20k a year? I'd say less than 30 in SC2 (likely closer to 10-15). And Revival in my eyes is definitely out of Top 30.
Edit: Only 28 players in SC2 have earned over 30k in 2013. EG players get to keep all their winnings. Revival has made 32k. So Revival's yearly earnings are 38k a year. Is that bad? Not very sustainable in a First World country... But seems to be above reasonable based on his level of skill. (Ranked 101 ELO based on TLPD?).
Depends on the team but one would think that one of the richest esports team should be able to pay their players more than that. He might not be a fan favorite but he has still done well for their brand. Shady esports is shady I guess.
Absolutely nothing shady about it. That's what most players are (unfortunately) worth to teams in terms of ROI.
EG might be the "richest", but it also relies solely on player marketing for every cent of sponsorship money. Unlike teams like Acer or Team Liquid, which are backed by revenue sources not dependent on player followings, or even teams like Axiom which is knowingly run at a loss, EG has to hope the ROI from a contract term is at least a net zero. And they apparently use a shit-ton of metrics to valuate an appropriate salary.
And a salary like $6000 might sound low, but the full investment on him is probably closer to 30k-40k for all travel and accommodations over the year.
I forgot about the EGTL house. With that in mind its not that bad.
i wonder why eg/tl didnt run in spl this year, they now have rly strong guns at their prime with jd one of top 3 zergs, teaja best terran and prob the best player right now. hero always good and with oz and jyp doing rly well recently...
On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote: Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG!
What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it.
he prob had no salary at his previous korean teams, so ~;;; 90% of the other koreans would be happy to get a salary
Wonder what moves EG will make. I could imagine them just sticking with Jaedong Korean-wise because he generates more exposure than their previous Korean roster combined. And team competitions aren´t very attractive at the moment.
Isn't the culture of Korean vs foreign teams very different? Maybe Revival was upset due misunderstanding the expectations of him. I'm assuming in a korean team the coaches would get everyone their schedules (for example), whereas in a foreign team its pretty usual to see players figuring out the schedule of tournaments and what not mostly on their own, individually.
On December 09 2013 19:38 jeri wrote: i wonder why eg/tl didnt run in spl this year, they now have rly strong guns at their prime with jd one of top 3 zergs, teaja best terran and prob the best player right now. hero always good and with oz and jyp doing rly well recently...
Not worth the cost. They lost a ton of money with no results to speak of. Reminds me of when Fnatic tried to win GSTL.
Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
On December 09 2013 20:59 boxerfred wrote: Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
Well if I still had the twitch chat open I could have scrolled up and posted a screenshot of him saying "nono eg good team" as well, but he stopped streaming and I didn't have a need to keep it open.
On December 09 2013 20:59 boxerfred wrote: Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
Well if I still had the twitch chat open I could have scrolled up and posted a screenshot of him saying "nono eg good team" as well, but he stopped streaming and I didn't have a need to keep it open.
Oh well, I just hope they make a clear cut then and everyone's gonna have fun.
On December 09 2013 20:59 boxerfred wrote: Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
On December 09 2013 20:59 boxerfred wrote: Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
The lobby chat i translated is 100% correct
Is that the accurate connotation for what Revival said? There's a large difference between something like "they are terribly disorganized" and "they are trash team".
I'm curious as to why they let Revival go yet players like Machine and Thorzain are still on the team. I know for example Incontrol is still on EG because he's more of a personality/host/caster these days, so he obviously represents EG well, but what the fuck does Machine and Thorzain do for the team these days. Clearly they don't bring in a lot of money.
On December 09 2013 19:38 jeri wrote: i wonder why eg/tl didnt run in spl this year, they now have rly strong guns at their prime with jd one of top 3 zergs, teaja best terran and prob the best player right now. hero always good and with oz and jyp doing rly well recently...
The ROI (Return Of Investment) is just not ok for a foreign team.
On December 09 2013 21:50 Durmaz21 wrote: I'm curious as to why they let Revival go yet players like Machine and Thorzain are still on the team. I know for example Incontrol is still on EG because he's more of a personality/host/caster these days, so he obviously represents EG well, but what the fuck does Machine and Thorzain do for the team these days. Clearly they don't bring in a lot of money.
But i presume they also do not cost much money especially with Thorazin studying and playing only parttime
this thread seems to have been totally sidetracked by the screenshot of revival supposedly insulting EG while still on the team. but that's the sort of language i use about my employer, where i really don't mind them ("they treat me like shit") etc. it's just a figure of speech really, nothing to really read deeply into his persona imo
Which is pretty sad considering whenever he does well it gets ignored.
And he was considering retirement before EG picked him up for PL. I am afraid that we might lose him if he does not find a new home in the near future. :/
Which is pretty sad considering whenever he does well it gets ignored.
And he was considering retirement before EG picked him up for PL. I am afraid that we might lose him if he does not find a new home in the near future. :/
i'm so confused on why that tweet shows alive is moving teams. he still has EG in his twitter name, is he not allowed to skype people?
On December 09 2013 16:44 Antisocialmunky wrote: Well everyone who ends up on a Team with Jaedong looks like an A-Teamer at best by comparison, FiWiFaKi.
On December 09 2013 16:44 Antisocialmunky wrote: Well everyone who ends up on a Team with Jaedong looks like an A-Teamer at best by comparison, FiWiFaKi.
Which is pretty sad considering whenever he does well it gets ignored.
And he was considering retirement before EG picked him up for PL. I am afraid that we might lose him if he does not find a new home in the near future. :/
i'm so confused on why that tweet shows alive is moving teams. he still has EG in his twitter name, is he not allowed to skype people?
Because Lake is the CEO of Complexity, why would aLive just want to skype the CEO of another esports organisation otherwise?
I wish Axiom had the space and money for aLive, it would be nice to see him compete in the GSTL again.
Which is pretty sad considering whenever he does well it gets ignored.
And he was considering retirement before EG picked him up for PL. I am afraid that we might lose him if he does not find a new home in the near future. :/
i'm so confused on why that tweet shows alive is moving teams. he still has EG in his twitter name, is he not allowed to skype people?
Because Lake is the CEO of Complexity, why would aLive just want to skype the CEO of another esports organisation otherwise?
I wish Axiom had the space and money for aLive, it would be nice to see him compete in the GSTL again.
Because aLive has been in contact with him before. IIRC aLive and Heart were stuck in America after an event because they forgot their passports and they stayed at Lake's house. With Heart being on coL at the time and aLive being good friends with Heart (and ex-teammates from when they were both on TSL), they became acquainted with each other. I wouldn't read too much into the tweet.
On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote: Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG!
What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it.
Just from reading previous interviews with him it's the kind of impression I have. I don't have any specific examples, but I remember "don't cheer for this guy" in my head for whatever reasons he erks me - even though overall I like EG.
What kind of salaries do you expect players get? I agree, 6k is pretty poor. But how many players do you think get paid more than 20k a year? I'd say less than 30 in SC2 (likely closer to 10-15). And Revival in my eyes is definitely out of Top 30.
Edit: Only 28 players in SC2 have earned over 30k in 2013. EG players get to keep all their winnings. Revival has made 32k. So Revival's yearly earnings are 38k a year. Is that bad? Not very sustainable in a First World country... But seems to be above reasonable based on his level of skill. (Ranked 101 ELO based on TLPD?).
Hold up. 38k a year isn't "sustainable in a First World Country"?
Maybe not if you have a family to support or severe health issues. But that should be more than enough for the typically young, healthy, and single sc2 players. Not to mention having housing covered because of training houses.
I shudder to imagine what you think of the living conditions of grad students in first world countries.
38k should be a bit more than the typical young Korean who holds and BA degree and is working for a bigger company makes in his first year(s). Considering that he also got a lot of basic expenses covered (shelter, food, electricity/internet etc.) it`s not a bad deal. A Postdoc in Germany usually makes that much and they are in a later stage at their lives with much more responsibilities etc.
I really hope they keep aLive and Oz. They have done really well this year and without them JD is the only player on EG that will do anything. I have high hopes for Suppy and Xeno also.
On December 10 2013 00:02 mikedebo wrote: guys you've got it all wrong, alive is acting as recruiter for col and sending revival there and is going to take a cut of his contract
On December 10 2013 00:53 sSooG wrote: EG needs high profile players... sad to see him leave but its good for the EG image
They have Jaedong. They don't need anyone else because team leagues don't matter. The others players can be their foreigners, paid little but with a good part of streaming obligations.
On December 09 2013 23:42 Irrational_Animal wrote: 38k should be a bit more than the typical young Korean who holds and BA degree and is working for a bigger company makes in his first year(s). Considering that he also got a lot of basic expenses covered (shelter, food, electricity/internet etc.) it`s not a bad deal. A Postdoc in Germany usually makes that much and they are in a later stage at their lives with much more responsibilities etc.
It's not a long term benefit though. I would rather make $25k for 3 years while someone else made $38k because I will probably be making $50k while he's slipped back down the ladder and is making $30k.
Someone who has a degree and a "real" job is in better position than someone playing e-Sports and having a low-ish level of success. Maybe if you are an MC or similar it's fine in the long run, but Revival is putting his long term career on hold.
On December 09 2013 21:50 Durmaz21 wrote: I'm curious as to why they let Revival go yet players like Machine and Thorzain are still on the team. I know for example Incontrol is still on EG because he's more of a personality/host/caster these days, so he obviously represents EG well, but what the fuck does Machine and Thorzain do for the team these days. Clearly they don't bring in a lot of money.
I really don't understand why so many people on TL are disconnected from reality. It's been a constant debate from region-locking to any other controversial Korean vs Foreigner topic.
Reality = the vast majority of Foreigner SC2 viewers aren't interested in Koreans unless they
A) speak English B) try hard to connect to foreign fans C) have attained superstar status
Companies like EG make money off sponsorship, not skill or results of players. Personality & reputation > skill & results with regards to marketing. Despite poor results, I guarantee that Thorzain and Machine are each more popular and have more fans than Revival, Oz and Alive combined in the foreign scene. Therefore they are worth more to the team.
That being said, Machine and Thorzain may not be sticking around too much longer anyhow, as they may be moving on to other things. Especially Thorzain, who seems quite unhappy with his direction in his latest interviews.
If it's true that he called EG a trash team while on it (and I have no reason to mistrust the several translators here), then that's really unprofessional by him and no one should shed a tear about his departure. There are a lot of Korean pros that are better than him skillwise and would greatly appreciate the benefits of a salary and the opportunity to travel to non-Korean tournaments.
On December 10 2013 01:40 ZionsWrath wrote: The sad thing is, as a casual north american player/viewer, the only EG player I recognize is iNcontrol and HuK...
Don't care if this guy leaves to be honest....
You don't know who Jaedong or Demuslim are? That's seriously casual, respect.
On December 10 2013 02:05 ACrow wrote: If it's true that he called EG a trash team while on it (and I have no reason to mistrust the several translators here), then that's really unprofessional by him and no one should shed a tear about his departure. There are a lot of Korean pros that are better than him skillwise and would greatly appreciate the benefits of a salary and the opportunity to travel to non-Korean tournaments.
I dunno maybe revival asked incontrol for advice on how to be more popular and incontrol said "Maybe you should try to be more like Idra since we don't have him anymore"
EG needs quite the roster revamp soon, many of their players aren't inspiring anymore and many have lost a lot of popularity. It's not always about their records and accomplishments and some players bring more to the team than others in a diverse way.
Honestly, I would only keep Alive (consistency), Jaedong for their skills and Incontrol and maybe Machine for the work they do on the team and with the sponsors. Suppy has great potential so I'd keep him and perhaps Xeno but not sure if he has anything coming up for him. On the fence about players like Oz and DeMuslim. Thorzain and HuK are popular but they have waned in skill and Thorzain isn't even full time. EG can really acquire better players (altho some might need to be headhunted EG has the resources)
On December 10 2013 00:53 sSooG wrote: EG needs high profile players... sad to see him leave but its good for the EG image
They have Jaedong. They don't need anyone else because team leagues don't matter. The others players can be their foreigners, paid little but with a good part of streaming obligations.
correction the team leagues most teams compete in don't matter. PL is a great tool for training compared to the other bush leagues because of it's duration and quality of talent. Only problem with that is you don't want to be too dependent on something that won't last forever. We've been waiting for business to pick-up and thank Heavens it's almost that time.
On December 09 2013 20:59 boxerfred wrote: Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
Okay, seriously, lower your pitchforks please. I think you guys took the screenshot completely out of context. Can we at least have a full translation instead of picking and choosing which parts to translate and which parts to not? Shame on you mongmong.
Revival: Where do I register? Symbol: This friday Revival: They don't even tell us things like this HyuN: But hey Revival (He called Revival Jjakddongah, which is a nickname that the TSL players use for him) Symbol: If you go into the site Revival: This is really a trash team Symbol: It says it there Hyun: There's an overlap with WCG qualifiers Symbol: lolol Hyun: and IEM finals
Yes, it's true, Revival used the term "trash team." Yes, it was unprofessional, and yes, it was quite rude. Yes, he was stupid for leaving his stream on by accident while he was having this conversation.
However, this conversation, from what I understand from talking to Revival, isn't even recent. This was his own personal conversation that he was having with HyuN and Symbol BEFORE WCG 2013 Qualifiers (Based on HyuN's comment in the conversation), which was back in July. This was a misunderstanding. Revival thought that EG didn't tell him about WCG qualifiers, but that was because Revival would be in Shanghai for IEM (which he ended up winning if memory serves me right.)
Revival was simply having a bad day and this was ONE moment where he was experiencing frustration. It wasn't right to take it out on his team, but **** happens, and everyone's a human who makes mistakes. When I talked to Revival about it, he felt bad/sorry that this came up online, but he didn't know how to address it or go about it, which is why I'm writing this for him.
I know Revival, HyuN, and Symbol personally from working with TSL before it disbanded, and Revival is a super humble person who PROBABLY, other than HyuN, shows the greatest amount of empathy for others. When my father had a heart attack a while back, Revival was one of the first people who checked up on me.
Please don't ruin someone's image for something that's taken largely out of context. No where in that screenshot does he complain about his salary or anything like that. He left EG on good terms and he has a lot of respect for that team.
On December 10 2013 02:53 seoul_kiM wrote: EG needs quite the roster revamp soon, many of their players aren't inspiring anymore and many have lost a lot of popularity. It's not always about their records and accomplishments and some players bring more to the team than others in a diverse way.
Honestly, I would only keep Alive (consistency), Jaedong for their skills and Incontrol and maybe Machine for the work they do on the team and with the sponsors. Suppy has great potential so I'd keep him and perhaps Xeno but not sure if he has anything coming up for him. On the fence about players like Oz and DeMuslim. Thorzain and HuK are popular but they have waned in skill and Thorzain isn't even full time. EG can really acquire better players (altho some might need to be headhunted EG has the resources)
DeMuslim is one of the most popular Starcraft 2 players, period. Results don't mean much with that kind of popularity, so if you think EG will ever get rid of him keep dreaming. Same with Huk. As long as popularity holds, they are teflon (barring an Idra-level PR disaster).
Like so many others have pointed out in this thread, people arguing about skill mattering in any significance are completely out of the loop and disconnected from the way these teams work. A player can be in bronze league and have potential for a team if said players proves that they have a following and a great personality.
P.S. Alive is probably toast, because as most us know, his skill means almost nothing. He's just not popular enough or marketing himself well to foreign fans.
On December 10 2013 02:53 seoul_kiM wrote: EG needs quite the roster revamp soon, many of their players aren't inspiring anymore and many have lost a lot of popularity. It's not always about their records and accomplishments and some players bring more to the team than others in a diverse way.
Honestly, I would only keep Alive (consistency), Jaedong for their skills and Incontrol and maybe Machine for the work they do on the team and with the sponsors. Suppy has great potential so I'd keep him and perhaps Xeno but not sure if he has anything coming up for him. On the fence about players like Oz and DeMuslim. Thorzain and HuK are popular but they have waned in skill and Thorzain isn't even full time. EG can really acquire better players (altho some might need to be headhunted EG has the resources)
DeMuslim is one of the most popular Starcraft 2 players, period. Results don't mean much with that kind of popularity, so if you think EG will ever get rid of him keep dreaming. Same with Huk. As long as popularity holds, they are teflon (barring an Idra-level PR disaster).
Like so many others have pointed out in this thread, people arguing about skill mattering in any significance are completely out of the loop and disconnected from the way these teams work. A player can be in bronze league and have potential for a team if said players proves that they have a following and a great personality.
P.S. Alive is probably toast, because as most us know, his skill means almost nothing. He's just not popular enough or marketing himself well to foreign fans.
That's part of it. Another part of it is the player's expectations. If Machine, iNcontrol, or Thorzain were on the same contract as Revival, getting the same salary, and expecting to go to the same tournaments, I have no doubt they would get cut as well. It's all about understanding what your worth is to a team and then make a deal around that. To EG, Revival's worth isn't the same now as it was a year ago when he was getting better results and EG needed korean based players for PL. So it's either, take a pay cut and stop going to tournaments or try to find another team.
On December 10 2013 02:53 seoul_kiM wrote: EG needs quite the roster revamp soon, many of their players aren't inspiring anymore and many have lost a lot of popularity. It's not always about their records and accomplishments and some players bring more to the team than others in a diverse way.
Honestly, I would only keep Alive (consistency), Jaedong for their skills and Incontrol and maybe Machine for the work they do on the team and with the sponsors. Suppy has great potential so I'd keep him and perhaps Xeno but not sure if he has anything coming up for him. On the fence about players like Oz and DeMuslim. Thorzain and HuK are popular but they have waned in skill and Thorzain isn't even full time. EG can really acquire better players (altho some might need to be headhunted EG has the resources)
DeMuslim is one of the most popular Starcraft 2 players, period. Results don't mean much with that kind of popularity, so if you think EG will ever get rid of him keep dreaming. Same with Huk. As long as popularity holds, they are teflon (barring an Idra-level PR disaster).
Like so many others have pointed out in this thread, people arguing about skill mattering in any significance are completely out of the loop and disconnected from the way these teams work. A player can be in bronze league and have potential for a team if said players proves that they have a following and a great personality.
P.S. Alive is probably toast, because as most us know, his skill means almost nothing. He's just not popular enough or marketing himself well to foreign fans.
I highly doubt that anyone on EG is getting the axe. The last players not to get a contract offer were AxSlav and Strifecro, and that was two years ago? And we don't even know how there negotiations went...they could very well have gotten new contract offers.
EG has shown that they'll offer to renew contracts with basically everyone on the team, at what seems to be accurate market value.
I really wonder how much Jaedong gets in a year from salary alone... as well as Hero and Taeja. As for Revival, aLive, and Oz, has EG actually promoted them that much since they were only acquired for PL?
Would be awesome if he would join Prime. They have no good Zerg and since they will play ProLeague soon Revival would be an excellent addition to their team. But I doupt this will happen :-(
That's part of it. Another part of it is the player's expectations. If Machine, iNcontrol, or Thorzain were on the same contract as Revival, getting the same salary, and expecting to go to the same tournaments, I have no doubt they would get cut as well. It's all about understanding what your worth is to a team and then make a deal around that. To EG, Revival's worth isn't the same now as it was a year ago when he was getting better results and EG needed korean based players for PL. So it's either, take a pay cut and stop going to tournaments or try to find another team.
That's another part of it, I agree. We don't know the inner-workings of it all, but we have to assume that the responsibilities of the team also mean food, housing, travel and such for members. On top of that, some kind of salary. Anything less would be somewhat of a black eye on EG for treating it's players poorly, which they will not do.
The key is, considering what they get in return for exposure regarding Korean players like Revival, Oz and Alive, it probably just isn't worth it anymore to cover the expenses. I completely agree with you that pro-league was the reason they picked these guys up. It would have been great for EG to have a full team in Korea with that much exposure. But since that's gone now, I'm guessing that these guys will be gone soon, as well.
On December 10 2013 04:38 WolfintheSheep wrote:
I highly doubt that anyone on EG is getting the axe. The last players not to get a contract offer were AxSlav and Strifecro, and that was two years ago? And we don't even know how there negotiations went...they could very well have gotten new contract offers.
EG has shown that they'll offer to renew contracts with basically everyone on the team, at what seems to be accurate market value.
I disagree. I would speculate that Revival got axed against his will. I would say the same is going to happen to Alive, and he knows it. Otherwise, why would Revival not already have a team lined up if he chose to leave on his own? In addition, why would Alive be trying to contact Complexity publicly on twitter all of the sudden? It's speculation, but I think the entire Korean roster is going to get axed with the exception of Jaedong. And Puma was also axed not so long ago, if you remember. The Koreans have to add something particularly special for a team like EG to keep them on, as they don't have enough foreign fans to justify the investment. Stream numbers are a good indication of ROI for EG.
On December 10 2013 05:11 LuckoftheIrish wrote: Let's just point out that not having a contract renewed when it expires isn't the same as being 'axed', as you put it.
On December 10 2013 05:11 LuckoftheIrish wrote: Let's just point out that not having a contract renewed when it expires isn't the same as being 'axed', as you put it.
this completely. EG probably offered what they felt Revival was worth and Revival decided he'd rather go somewhere else where he was more valuable. I see why EG didn't want him that much anymore, they don't really do team leagues anymore and revival hasn't shown great results which is what he;d need to get the amount of popularity that EG would want.
As for Alive I'm not sure. He's been good but once again isn't really marketable and doesn't add anything to the EG brand so to speak as he hasn't had any great tournament results either. I still think he's the 2nd best player on EG atm but how much that really matters I don't know. Plus they have a lot of koreans that aren't really accomplishing anything so I could see them cutting a few.
On December 09 2013 23:42 Irrational_Animal wrote: 38k should be a bit more than the typical young Korean who holds and BA degree and is working for a bigger company makes in his first year(s). Considering that he also got a lot of basic expenses covered (shelter, food, electricity/internet etc.) it`s not a bad deal. A Postdoc in Germany usually makes that much and they are in a later stage at their lives with much more responsibilities etc.
It's not a long term benefit though. I would rather make $25k for 3 years while someone else made $38k because I will probably be making $50k while he's slipped back down the ladder and is making $30k.
Someone who has a degree and a "real" job is in better position than someone playing e-Sports and having a low-ish level of success. Maybe if you are an MC or similar it's fine in the long run, but Revival is putting his long term career on hold.
My $130,000 useless degree begs to differ with your belief that a degree and a "real" job is in a better position than being a pro gamer. I'd gladly give this piece of paper up to make $6000 a year living in a cramped space playing video games all day.
My point is simply that nobody really knows what it's like for anyone else. I think that making 6k a year without any other obligations is a pretty decent salary for a young guy. There's no long term benefit unless he goes into eSports in the future, which is probably considerably easier as a former pro gamer than as a random westerner struggling to get their name out there, for example. There's nothing saying that he isn't considering this option.
On December 10 2013 04:48 astray71 wrote: I really wonder how much Jaedong gets in a year from salary alone... as well as Hero and Taeja. As for Revival, aLive, and Oz, has EG actually promoted them that much since they were only acquired for PL?
Would not surprise me in the slightest if JD had the highest salary of any player right now. With the money he made in BW and all the prize money from SC2, that dude is fucking stacked.
On December 10 2013 05:11 LuckoftheIrish wrote: Let's just point out that not having a contract renewed when it expires isn't the same as being 'axed', as you put it.
True but "axed" sounds so much cooler for dramatic effect
Let go, not able to come to an agreement, taking a different direction . . . all of these are probably much better descriptions, I agree.
On December 10 2013 02:53 seoul_kiM wrote: EG needs quite the roster revamp soon, many of their players aren't inspiring anymore and many have lost a lot of popularity. It's not always about their records and accomplishments and some players bring more to the team than others in a diverse way.
Honestly, I would only keep Alive (consistency), Jaedong for their skills and Incontrol and maybe Machine for the work they do on the team and with the sponsors. Suppy has great potential so I'd keep him and perhaps Xeno but not sure if he has anything coming up for him. On the fence about players like Oz and DeMuslim. Thorzain and HuK are popular but they have waned in skill and Thorzain isn't even full time. EG can really acquire better players (altho some might need to be headhunted EG has the resources)
DeMuslim is one of the most popular Starcraft 2 players, period. Results don't mean much with that kind of popularity, so if you think EG will ever get rid of him keep dreaming. Same with Huk. As long as popularity holds, they are teflon (barring an Idra-level PR disaster).
Like so many others have pointed out in this thread, people arguing about skill mattering in any significance are completely out of the loop and disconnected from the way these teams work. A player can be in bronze league and have potential for a team if said players proves that they have a following and a great personality.
P.S. Alive is probably toast, because as most us know, his skill means almost nothing. He's just not popular enough or marketing himself well to foreign fans.
I highly doubt that anyone on EG is getting the axe. The last players not to get a contract offer were AxSlav and Strifecro, and that was two years ago? And we don't even know how there negotiations went...they could very well have gotten new contract offers.
EG has shown that they'll offer to renew contracts with basically everyone on the team, at what seems to be accurate market value.
If any team needs to spring clean the house, it would be EG. They have been carrying Machine for moral support. Without PL, there is no point in keeping JYP, aLive, and Oz for another year. With the holiday hiatus, it is the perfect time for both players and team to move on. There isn't really any point to foreign teams having a strong *aka Korean* line-up. Signing weekend hero like Taeja or Stardust pays off much more for them.
Liquid had such a steal with Taeja, he is the perfect weekend hero. Signed him when he was drastically improving, but couldn't get recognition on a Terran stacked team even with an outrageous record in ESV Korean Weekly. Also, he is significantly worse in a prepared GSL setting. And GSL was stagnant at the time because the Code S/A barrier was much larger than after rearrangement.
In terms of talent/player pool, ESV Korean Weekly was better than more than half of the premiere tournaments these day.
On December 10 2013 02:53 seoul_kiM wrote: EG needs quite the roster revamp soon, many of their players aren't inspiring anymore and many have lost a lot of popularity. It's not always about their records and accomplishments and some players bring more to the team than others in a diverse way.
Honestly, I would only keep Alive (consistency), Jaedong for their skills and Incontrol and maybe Machine for the work they do on the team and with the sponsors. Suppy has great potential so I'd keep him and perhaps Xeno but not sure if he has anything coming up for him. On the fence about players like Oz and DeMuslim. Thorzain and HuK are popular but they have waned in skill and Thorzain isn't even full time. EG can really acquire better players (altho some might need to be headhunted EG has the resources)
DeMuslim is one of the most popular Starcraft 2 players, period. Results don't mean much with that kind of popularity, so if you think EG will ever get rid of him keep dreaming. Same with Huk. As long as popularity holds, they are teflon (barring an Idra-level PR disaster).
Like so many others have pointed out in this thread, people arguing about skill mattering in any significance are completely out of the loop and disconnected from the way these teams work. A player can be in bronze league and have potential for a team if said players proves that they have a following and a great personality.
P.S. Alive is probably toast, because as most us know, his skill means almost nothing. He's just not popular enough or marketing himself well to foreign fans.
I highly doubt that anyone on EG is getting the axe. The last players not to get a contract offer were AxSlav and Strifecro, and that was two years ago? And we don't even know how there negotiations went...they could very well have gotten new contract offers.
EG has shown that they'll offer to renew contracts with basically everyone on the team, at what seems to be accurate market value.
If any team needs to spring clean the house, it would be EG. They have been carrying Machine for moral support. Without PL, there is no point in keeping JYP, aLive, and Oz for another year. With the holiday hiatus, it is the perfect time for both players and team to move on. There isn't really any point to foreign teams having a strong *aka Korean* line-up. Signing weekend hero like Taeja or Stardust pays off much more for them.
Liquid had such a steal with Taeja, he is the perfect weekend hero. Signed him when he was drastically improving, but couldn't get recognition on a Terran stacked team even with an outrageous record in ESV Korean Weekly. Also, he is significantly worse in a prepared GSL setting. And GSL was stagnant at the time because the Code S/A barrier was much larger than after rearrangement.
In terms of talent/player pool, ESV Korean Weekly was better than more than half of the premiere tournaments these day.
Lets not devolve this thread into you expressing your opinion that Taeja's two GSL semifinal runs mean nothing and keep it focused on the topic at hand . In other news I really hope that Revival finds a team soon (Azubu? :D) I also wouldn't read into the aLive/complexity tweet, but it is possible that the other under-appreciated Koreans on EG could end up moving on as well
He did ok, but without proleague it makes sense, it's not like he's a Korean that many people care about, and EG are notoriously more about characters than skill (not saying that's a good or a bad thing)
On December 10 2013 02:53 seoul_kiM wrote: EG needs quite the roster revamp soon, many of their players aren't inspiring anymore and many have lost a lot of popularity. It's not always about their records and accomplishments and some players bring more to the team than others in a diverse way.
Honestly, I would only keep Alive (consistency), Jaedong for their skills and Incontrol and maybe Machine for the work they do on the team and with the sponsors. Suppy has great potential so I'd keep him and perhaps Xeno but not sure if he has anything coming up for him. On the fence about players like Oz and DeMuslim. Thorzain and HuK are popular but they have waned in skill and Thorzain isn't even full time. EG can really acquire better players (altho some might need to be headhunted EG has the resources)
DeMuslim is one of the most popular Starcraft 2 players, period. Results don't mean much with that kind of popularity, so if you think EG will ever get rid of him keep dreaming. Same with Huk. As long as popularity holds, they are teflon (barring an Idra-level PR disaster).
Like so many others have pointed out in this thread, people arguing about skill mattering in any significance are completely out of the loop and disconnected from the way these teams work. A player can be in bronze league and have potential for a team if said players proves that they have a following and a great personality.
P.S. Alive is probably toast, because as most us know, his skill means almost nothing. He's just not popular enough or marketing himself well to foreign fans.
I highly doubt that anyone on EG is getting the axe. The last players not to get a contract offer were AxSlav and Strifecro, and that was two years ago? And we don't even know how there negotiations went...they could very well have gotten new contract offers.
EG has shown that they'll offer to renew contracts with basically everyone on the team, at what seems to be accurate market value.
If any team needs to spring clean the house, it would be EG. They have been carrying Machine for moral support. Without PL, there is no point in keeping JYP, aLive, and Oz for another year. With the holiday hiatus, it is the perfect time for both players and team to move on. There isn't really any point to foreign teams having a strong *aka Korean* line-up. Signing weekend hero like Taeja or Stardust pays off much more for them.
Liquid had such a steal with Taeja, he is the perfect weekend hero. Signed him when he was drastically improving, but couldn't get recognition on a Terran stacked team even with an outrageous record in ESV Korean Weekly. Also, he is significantly worse in a prepared GSL setting. And GSL was stagnant at the time because the Code S/A barrier was much larger than after rearrangement.
In terms of talent/player pool, ESV Korean Weekly was better than more than half of the premiere tournaments these day.
Lets not devolve this thread into you expressing your opinion that Taeja's two GSL semifinal runs mean nothing and keep it focused on the topic at hand . In other news I really hope that Revival finds a team soon (Azubu? :D) I also wouldn't read into the aLive/complexity tweet, but it is possible that the other under-appreciated Koreans on EG could end up moving on as well
................................................................................. It is clear that Taeja does much better in weekend tournament settings. Fact that even Taeja admits to... Nothing I wrote is even remotely negative about Taeja. Why are you so angry guy?
On December 10 2013 02:53 seoul_kiM wrote: EG needs quite the roster revamp soon, many of their players aren't inspiring anymore and many have lost a lot of popularity. It's not always about their records and accomplishments and some players bring more to the team than others in a diverse way.
Honestly, I would only keep Alive (consistency), Jaedong for their skills and Incontrol and maybe Machine for the work they do on the team and with the sponsors. Suppy has great potential so I'd keep him and perhaps Xeno but not sure if he has anything coming up for him. On the fence about players like Oz and DeMuslim. Thorzain and HuK are popular but they have waned in skill and Thorzain isn't even full time. EG can really acquire better players (altho some might need to be headhunted EG has the resources)
DeMuslim is one of the most popular Starcraft 2 players, period. Results don't mean much with that kind of popularity, so if you think EG will ever get rid of him keep dreaming. Same with Huk. As long as popularity holds, they are teflon (barring an Idra-level PR disaster).
Like so many others have pointed out in this thread, people arguing about skill mattering in any significance are completely out of the loop and disconnected from the way these teams work. A player can be in bronze league and have potential for a team if said players proves that they have a following and a great personality.
P.S. Alive is probably toast, because as most us know, his skill means almost nothing. He's just not popular enough or marketing himself well to foreign fans.
I highly doubt that anyone on EG is getting the axe. The last players not to get a contract offer were AxSlav and Strifecro, and that was two years ago? And we don't even know how there negotiations went...they could very well have gotten new contract offers.
EG has shown that they'll offer to renew contracts with basically everyone on the team, at what seems to be accurate market value.
If any team needs to spring clean the house, it would be EG. They have been carrying Machine for moral support. Without PL, there is no point in keeping JYP, aLive, and Oz for another year. With the holiday hiatus, it is the perfect time for both players and team to move on. There isn't really any point to foreign teams having a strong *aka Korean* line-up. Signing weekend hero like Taeja or Stardust pays off much more for them.
Liquid had such a steal with Taeja, he is the perfect weekend hero. Signed him when he was drastically improving, but couldn't get recognition on a Terran stacked team even with an outrageous record in ESV Korean Weekly. Also, he is significantly worse in a prepared GSL setting. And GSL was stagnant at the time because the Code S/A barrier was much larger than after rearrangement.
In terms of talent/player pool, ESV Korean Weekly was better than more than half of the premiere tournaments these day.
Lets not devolve this thread into you expressing your opinion that Taeja's two GSL semifinal runs mean nothing and keep it focused on the topic at hand . In other news I really hope that Revival finds a team soon (Azubu? :D) I also wouldn't read into the aLive/complexity tweet, but it is possible that the other under-appreciated Koreans on EG could end up moving on as well
................................................................................. It is clear that Taeja does much better in weekend tournament settings. Fact that even Taeja admits to... Nothing I wrote is even remotely negative about Taeja. Why are you so angry guy?
i thinks he just misinterpreted what you said because of how what you wrote reads. I completely agree with you though, without major tournament results and no team leagues there's not really a reason to hang on to "good" korean players who aren't personalities.
On December 10 2013 02:53 seoul_kiM wrote: EG needs quite the roster revamp soon, many of their players aren't inspiring anymore and many have lost a lot of popularity. It's not always about their records and accomplishments and some players bring more to the team than others in a diverse way.
Honestly, I would only keep Alive (consistency), Jaedong for their skills and Incontrol and maybe Machine for the work they do on the team and with the sponsors. Suppy has great potential so I'd keep him and perhaps Xeno but not sure if he has anything coming up for him. On the fence about players like Oz and DeMuslim. Thorzain and HuK are popular but they have waned in skill and Thorzain isn't even full time. EG can really acquire better players (altho some might need to be headhunted EG has the resources)
DeMuslim is one of the most popular Starcraft 2 players, period. Results don't mean much with that kind of popularity, so if you think EG will ever get rid of him keep dreaming. Same with Huk. As long as popularity holds, they are teflon (barring an Idra-level PR disaster).
Like so many others have pointed out in this thread, people arguing about skill mattering in any significance are completely out of the loop and disconnected from the way these teams work. A player can be in bronze league and have potential for a team if said players proves that they have a following and a great personality.
P.S. Alive is probably toast, because as most us know, his skill means almost nothing. He's just not popular enough or marketing himself well to foreign fans.
I highly doubt that anyone on EG is getting the axe. The last players not to get a contract offer were AxSlav and Strifecro, and that was two years ago? And we don't even know how there negotiations went...they could very well have gotten new contract offers.
EG has shown that they'll offer to renew contracts with basically everyone on the team, at what seems to be accurate market value.
If any team needs to spring clean the house, it would be EG. They have been carrying Machine for moral support. Without PL, there is no point in keeping JYP, aLive, and Oz for another year. With the holiday hiatus, it is the perfect time for both players and team to move on. There isn't really any point to foreign teams having a strong *aka Korean* line-up. Signing weekend hero like Taeja or Stardust pays off much more for them.
Liquid had such a steal with Taeja, he is the perfect weekend hero. Signed him when he was drastically improving, but couldn't get recognition on a Terran stacked team even with an outrageous record in ESV Korean Weekly. Also, he is significantly worse in a prepared GSL setting. And GSL was stagnant at the time because the Code S/A barrier was much larger than after rearrangement.
In terms of talent/player pool, ESV Korean Weekly was better than more than half of the premiere tournaments these day.
Lets not devolve this thread into you expressing your opinion that Taeja's two GSL semifinal runs mean nothing and keep it focused on the topic at hand . In other news I really hope that Revival finds a team soon (Azubu? :D) I also wouldn't read into the aLive/complexity tweet, but it is possible that the other under-appreciated Koreans on EG could end up moving on as well
................................................................................. It is clear that Taeja does much better in weekend tournament settings. Fact that even Taeja admits to... Nothing I wrote is even remotely negative about Taeja. Why are you so angry guy?
Uh u just said Taeja is significantly worse in a prepared GSL setting where he finished in the ro4 twice and in all the other gsls had his run ended in the ro8 or 16 and these were in the WoL days where it was harder for terran not to mention how the last gsl before wcs started was right when Hots came out so that shouldnt count for much either. not to mention how well taeja has done in all other tournaments where the groups were announced maybe a week before a tournament has started and still do extremely well. and yeah duh he says he does better in weekend tournaments as he has won 5....
On December 09 2013 11:40 Lumi wrote: I'd actually have expected him to retire if anything, at this point. He got a championship with EG in the last year and has been able to attend a fair few tournaments. Not sure what else he could prefer? A return to the rigors of a Korean team? Maybe EG not giving him what he has been getting. Whoooo knows.
Maybe it's because EG aren't competing in Proleague anymore.
To be honest, if I were a progamer, I'd want to join a KeSPA or eSF team at this point. Many of them can afford to fly out players to international events when organizers won't pay for travel costs, Korean internet is pants-jizzingly good so streaming and watching Twitch streams will never be a worry, these teams can embrace foreign sponsors due to much of their viewerbase being outside Korea and with KeSPA you get the best of both worlds. You can compete in GSL, international events AND Proleague. You also get the guarantee of a good salary because KeSPA generally get decent sponsors and need to provide better salaries to justify competing in Proleague.
On December 10 2013 02:53 seoul_kiM wrote: EG needs quite the roster revamp soon, many of their players aren't inspiring anymore and many have lost a lot of popularity. It's not always about their records and accomplishments and some players bring more to the team than others in a diverse way.
Honestly, I would only keep Alive (consistency), Jaedong for their skills and Incontrol and maybe Machine for the work they do on the team and with the sponsors. Suppy has great potential so I'd keep him and perhaps Xeno but not sure if he has anything coming up for him. On the fence about players like Oz and DeMuslim. Thorzain and HuK are popular but they have waned in skill and Thorzain isn't even full time. EG can really acquire better players (altho some might need to be headhunted EG has the resources)
DeMuslim is one of the most popular Starcraft 2 players, period. Results don't mean much with that kind of popularity, so if you think EG will ever get rid of him keep dreaming. Same with Huk. As long as popularity holds, they are teflon (barring an Idra-level PR disaster).
Like so many others have pointed out in this thread, people arguing about skill mattering in any significance are completely out of the loop and disconnected from the way these teams work. A player can be in bronze league and have potential for a team if said players proves that they have a following and a great personality.
P.S. Alive is probably toast, because as most us know, his skill means almost nothing. He's just not popular enough or marketing himself well to foreign fans.
I highly doubt that anyone on EG is getting the axe. The last players not to get a contract offer were AxSlav and Strifecro, and that was two years ago? And we don't even know how there negotiations went...they could very well have gotten new contract offers.
EG has shown that they'll offer to renew contracts with basically everyone on the team, at what seems to be accurate market value.
If any team needs to spring clean the house, it would be EG. They have been carrying Machine for moral support. Without PL, there is no point in keeping JYP, aLive, and Oz for another year. With the holiday hiatus, it is the perfect time for both players and team to move on. There isn't really any point to foreign teams having a strong *aka Korean* line-up. Signing weekend hero like Taeja or Stardust pays off much more for them.
Liquid had such a steal with Taeja, he is the perfect weekend hero. Signed him when he was drastically improving, but couldn't get recognition on a Terran stacked team even with an outrageous record in ESV Korean Weekly. Also, he is significantly worse in a prepared GSL setting. And GSL was stagnant at the time because the Code S/A barrier was much larger than after rearrangement.
In terms of talent/player pool, ESV Korean Weekly was better than more than half of the premiere tournaments these day.
Lets not devolve this thread into you expressing your opinion that Taeja's two GSL semifinal runs mean nothing and keep it focused on the topic at hand . In other news I really hope that Revival finds a team soon (Azubu? :D) I also wouldn't read into the aLive/complexity tweet, but it is possible that the other under-appreciated Koreans on EG could end up moving on as well
................................................................................. It is clear that Taeja does much better in weekend tournament settings. Fact that even Taeja admits to... Nothing I wrote is even remotely negative about Taeja. Why are you so angry guy?
Uh u just said Taeja is significantly worse in a prepared GSL setting where he finished in the ro4 twice and in all the other gsls had his run ended in the ro8 or 16 and these were in the WoL days where it was harder for terran not to mention how the last gsl before wcs started was right when Hots came out so that shouldnt count for much either. not to mention how well taeja has done in all other tournaments where the groups were announced maybe a week before a tournament has started and still do extremely well. and yeah duh he says he does better in weekend tournaments as he has won 5....
Ok, let me dumb it down for you. Taeja practices mostly on ladder, unlike players on KeSPA. Taeja depends on mechanics much more than strategy and tactics. (O wait forgot my audience, he no like cheese... ok?) Taeja doesn't have the amount and quality practice partners than players on Korean teams. Can you understand the difference between "he is bad" and "he does worse in X conditions?" If it'll let you sleep at night, I'll even rephrase it as "he is better in weekend tournaments". *I only fear that you won't understand the logical equivalency...
On December 10 2013 02:53 seoul_kiM wrote: EG needs quite the roster revamp soon, many of their players aren't inspiring anymore and many have lost a lot of popularity. It's not always about their records and accomplishments and some players bring more to the team than others in a diverse way.
Honestly, I would only keep Alive (consistency), Jaedong for their skills and Incontrol and maybe Machine for the work they do on the team and with the sponsors. Suppy has great potential so I'd keep him and perhaps Xeno but not sure if he has anything coming up for him. On the fence about players like Oz and DeMuslim. Thorzain and HuK are popular but they have waned in skill and Thorzain isn't even full time. EG can really acquire better players (altho some might need to be headhunted EG has the resources)
DeMuslim is one of the most popular Starcraft 2 players, period. Results don't mean much with that kind of popularity, so if you think EG will ever get rid of him keep dreaming. Same with Huk. As long as popularity holds, they are teflon (barring an Idra-level PR disaster).
Like so many others have pointed out in this thread, people arguing about skill mattering in any significance are completely out of the loop and disconnected from the way these teams work. A player can be in bronze league and have potential for a team if said players proves that they have a following and a great personality.
P.S. Alive is probably toast, because as most us know, his skill means almost nothing. He's just not popular enough or marketing himself well to foreign fans.
I highly doubt that anyone on EG is getting the axe. The last players not to get a contract offer were AxSlav and Strifecro, and that was two years ago? And we don't even know how there negotiations went...they could very well have gotten new contract offers.
EG has shown that they'll offer to renew contracts with basically everyone on the team, at what seems to be accurate market value.
If any team needs to spring clean the house, it would be EG. They have been carrying Machine for moral support. Without PL, there is no point in keeping JYP, aLive, and Oz for another year. With the holiday hiatus, it is the perfect time for both players and team to move on. There isn't really any point to foreign teams having a strong *aka Korean* line-up. Signing weekend hero like Taeja or Stardust pays off much more for them.
Liquid had such a steal with Taeja, he is the perfect weekend hero. Signed him when he was drastically improving, but couldn't get recognition on a Terran stacked team even with an outrageous record in ESV Korean Weekly. Also, he is significantly worse in a prepared GSL setting. And GSL was stagnant at the time because the Code S/A barrier was much larger than after rearrangement.
In terms of talent/player pool, ESV Korean Weekly was better than more than half of the premiere tournaments these day.
Lets not devolve this thread into you expressing your opinion that Taeja's two GSL semifinal runs mean nothing and keep it focused on the topic at hand . In other news I really hope that Revival finds a team soon (Azubu? :D) I also wouldn't read into the aLive/complexity tweet, but it is possible that the other under-appreciated Koreans on EG could end up moving on as well
................................................................................. It is clear that Taeja does much better in weekend tournament settings. Fact that even Taeja admits to... Nothing I wrote is even remotely negative about Taeja. Why are you so angry guy?
Uh u just said Taeja is significantly worse in a prepared GSL setting where he finished in the ro4 twice and in all the other gsls had his run ended in the ro8 or 16 and these were in the WoL days where it was harder for terran not to mention how the last gsl before wcs started was right when Hots came out so that shouldnt count for much either. not to mention how well taeja has done in all other tournaments where the groups were announced maybe a week before a tournament has started and still do extremely well. and yeah duh he says he does better in weekend tournaments as he has won 5....
Ok, let me dumb it down for you. Taeja practices mostly on ladder, unlike players on KeSPA. Taeja depends on mechanics much more than strategy and tactics. (O wait forgot my audience, he no like cheese... ok?) Taeja doesn't have the amount and quality practice partners than players on Korean teams. Can you understand the difference between "he is bad" and "he does worse in X conditions?" If it'll let you sleep at night, I'll even rephrase it as "he is better in weekend tournaments". *I only fear that you won't understand the logical equivalency...
I know u didnt say in anyway he was bad and in my response in no where do i say anything about him not being bad i simply just said that what u said was wrong in which and ill quote u "he is significantly worse in a prepared GSL setting" when he has had great results in GSL when times were not easy for Terran and i have no idea why u would bring up his strengths and weaknesses in his play when that also has nothing to do with it... and ok he doesnt have the same amount of practice partners as some kespa players poor guy if he did he would have probably won 6 premeir tournaments this year instead of 5... I only fear ur going to respond to this saying something much worst then what u said previously.
On December 10 2013 02:53 seoul_kiM wrote: EG needs quite the roster revamp soon, many of their players aren't inspiring anymore and many have lost a lot of popularity. It's not always about their records and accomplishments and some players bring more to the team than others in a diverse way.
Honestly, I would only keep Alive (consistency), Jaedong for their skills and Incontrol and maybe Machine for the work they do on the team and with the sponsors. Suppy has great potential so I'd keep him and perhaps Xeno but not sure if he has anything coming up for him. On the fence about players like Oz and DeMuslim. Thorzain and HuK are popular but they have waned in skill and Thorzain isn't even full time. EG can really acquire better players (altho some might need to be headhunted EG has the resources)
DeMuslim is one of the most popular Starcraft 2 players, period. Results don't mean much with that kind of popularity, so if you think EG will ever get rid of him keep dreaming. Same with Huk. As long as popularity holds, they are teflon (barring an Idra-level PR disaster).
Like so many others have pointed out in this thread, people arguing about skill mattering in any significance are completely out of the loop and disconnected from the way these teams work. A player can be in bronze league and have potential for a team if said players proves that they have a following and a great personality.
P.S. Alive is probably toast, because as most us know, his skill means almost nothing. He's just not popular enough or marketing himself well to foreign fans.
I highly doubt that anyone on EG is getting the axe. The last players not to get a contract offer were AxSlav and Strifecro, and that was two years ago? And we don't even know how there negotiations went...they could very well have gotten new contract offers.
EG has shown that they'll offer to renew contracts with basically everyone on the team, at what seems to be accurate market value.
If any team needs to spring clean the house, it would be EG. They have been carrying Machine for moral support. Without PL, there is no point in keeping JYP, aLive, and Oz for another year. With the holiday hiatus, it is the perfect time for both players and team to move on. There isn't really any point to foreign teams having a strong *aka Korean* line-up. Signing weekend hero like Taeja or Stardust pays off much more for them.
Liquid had such a steal with Taeja, he is the perfect weekend hero. Signed him when he was drastically improving, but couldn't get recognition on a Terran stacked team even with an outrageous record in ESV Korean Weekly. Also, he is significantly worse in a prepared GSL setting. And GSL was stagnant at the time because the Code S/A barrier was much larger than after rearrangement.
In terms of talent/player pool, ESV Korean Weekly was better than more than half of the premiere tournaments these day.
Lets not devolve this thread into you expressing your opinion that Taeja's two GSL semifinal runs mean nothing and keep it focused on the topic at hand . In other news I really hope that Revival finds a team soon (Azubu? :D) I also wouldn't read into the aLive/complexity tweet, but it is possible that the other under-appreciated Koreans on EG could end up moving on as well
................................................................................. It is clear that Taeja does much better in weekend tournament settings. Fact that even Taeja admits to... Nothing I wrote is even remotely negative about Taeja. Why are you so angry guy?
My apologies I misunderstood. I read it as you saying he is a weekend tournament hero which made me think you were saying he goes for easy money and flops in longer tournaments. Your points make sense and I read between the lines when there was nothing there. In the meantime the thread has become about Taeja just as I was not intending TT
On December 10 2013 04:58 SCST wrote: I disagree. I would speculate that Revival got axed against his will. I would say the same is going to happen to Alive, and he knows it. Otherwise, why would Revival not already have a team lined up if he chose to leave on his own? In addition, why would Alive be trying to contact Complexity publicly on twitter all of the sudden? It's speculation, but I think the entire Korean roster is going to get axed with the exception of Jaedong. And Puma was also axed not so long ago, if you remember. The Koreans have to add something particularly special for a team like EG to keep them on, as they don't have enough foreign fans to justify the investment. Stream numbers are a good indication of ROI for EG.
Uh, Puma wasn't axed. He was explicitly offered a new contract, which he declined, without another team lined up. Unless you're suggesting both parties lied. Given his form, it would have obviously been a low salary contract, but he was still offered it in spite of poor performance.
Exact same situation with LzGamer: was offered a new contract, declined it.
Both were looking for greener pastures, or to step away from SC2 if they couldn't find it.
That's part of it. Another part of it is the player's expectations. If Machine, iNcontrol, or Thorzain were on the same contract as Revival, getting the same salary, and expecting to go to the same tournaments, I have no doubt they would get cut as well. It's all about understanding what your worth is to a team and then make a deal around that. To EG, Revival's worth isn't the same now as it was a year ago when he was getting better results and EG needed korean based players for PL. So it's either, take a pay cut and stop going to tournaments or try to find another team.
That's another part of it, I agree. We don't know the inner-workings of it all, but we have to assume that the responsibilities of the team also mean food, housing, travel and such for members. On top of that, some kind of salary. Anything less would be somewhat of a black eye on EG for treating it's players poorly, which they will not do.
The key is, considering what they get in return for exposure regarding Korean players like Revival, Oz and Alive, it probably just isn't worth it anymore to cover the expenses. I completely agree with you that pro-league was the reason they picked these guys up. It would have been great for EG to have a full team in Korea with that much exposure. But since that's gone now, I'm guessing that these guys will be gone soon, as well.
I highly doubt that anyone on EG is getting the axe. The last players not to get a contract offer were AxSlav and Strifecro, and that was two years ago? And we don't even know how there negotiations went...they could very well have gotten new contract offers.
EG has shown that they'll offer to renew contracts with basically everyone on the team, at what seems to be accurate market value.
I disagree. I would speculate that Revival got axed against his will. I would say the same is going to happen to Alive, and he knows it. Otherwise, why would Revival not already have a team lined up if he chose to leave on his own? In addition, why would Alive be trying to contact Complexity publicly on twitter all of the sudden? It's speculation, but I think the entire Korean roster is going to get axed with the exception of Jaedong. And Puma was also axed not so long ago, if you remember. The Koreans have to add something particularly special for a team like EG to keep them on, as they don't have enough foreign fans to justify the investment. Stream numbers are a good indication of ROI for EG.
what if eg offered him a rly bad contract ? no pro house , no lan support except for those tournaments where he qualify . i wanna see a top tier pro ( he almost qualified for blizzcon) accepting a bad contract .
That's part of it. Another part of it is the player's expectations. If Machine, iNcontrol, or Thorzain were on the same contract as Revival, getting the same salary, and expecting to go to the same tournaments, I have no doubt they would get cut as well. It's all about understanding what your worth is to a team and then make a deal around that. To EG, Revival's worth isn't the same now as it was a year ago when he was getting better results and EG needed korean based players for PL. So it's either, take a pay cut and stop going to tournaments or try to find another team.
That's another part of it, I agree. We don't know the inner-workings of it all, but we have to assume that the responsibilities of the team also mean food, housing, travel and such for members. On top of that, some kind of salary. Anything less would be somewhat of a black eye on EG for treating it's players poorly, which they will not do.
The key is, considering what they get in return for exposure regarding Korean players like Revival, Oz and Alive, it probably just isn't worth it anymore to cover the expenses. I completely agree with you that pro-league was the reason they picked these guys up. It would have been great for EG to have a full team in Korea with that much exposure. But since that's gone now, I'm guessing that these guys will be gone soon, as well.
On December 10 2013 04:38 WolfintheSheep wrote:
I highly doubt that anyone on EG is getting the axe. The last players not to get a contract offer were AxSlav and Strifecro, and that was two years ago? And we don't even know how there negotiations went...they could very well have gotten new contract offers.
EG has shown that they'll offer to renew contracts with basically everyone on the team, at what seems to be accurate market value.
I disagree. I would speculate that Revival got axed against his will. I would say the same is going to happen to Alive, and he knows it. Otherwise, why would Revival not already have a team lined up if he chose to leave on his own? In addition, why would Alive be trying to contact Complexity publicly on twitter all of the sudden? It's speculation, but I think the entire Korean roster is going to get axed with the exception of Jaedong. And Puma was also axed not so long ago, if you remember. The Koreans have to add something particularly special for a team like EG to keep them on, as they don't have enough foreign fans to justify the investment. Stream numbers are a good indication of ROI for EG.
what if eg offered him a rly bad contract ? no pro house , no lan support except for those tournaments where he qualify . i wanna see a top tier pro ( he almost qualified for blizzcon) accepting a bad contract .
EG didn't offer him a bad contract. Many Koreans and foreign teams have different views on what they want. EG and Revival just happen to be another case of it. Again, Revival left out of his own will. I'll make a blog post later to raise some issues that I think everyone would like to read/talk about.
On December 09 2013 20:59 boxerfred wrote: Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
The lobby chat i translated is 100% correct
The lobby chat you translated is not 100% correct. Please stop.
On December 10 2013 03:16 dearyuna wrote: Please don't ruin someone's image for something that's taken largely out of context. No where in that screenshot does he complain about his salary or anything like that. He left EG on good terms and he has a lot of respect for that team.
As Yuna said, please don't take one person's side on a subject matter such as this. Honestly I thought that this community would notice that the date clearly states 07-09-2013. Contextually since then, it makes an image like this invalid.
I disagree. I would speculate that Revival got axed against his will.
Spoke to Revival--he said he left out of his own will. EG was willing to keep him.
I'm glad to hear this actually, since it means he wasn't kicked off. That was the vibe I was getting from what I saw on his stream chat. Most likely he is looking for other teams... I did enjoy watching him play, as a hipster.
I stand corrected then on the axed part. It was just speculation, anyhow. Little odd that Alive is contacting Complexity at the same time though . . . . ooh the drama. Can't say I don't enjoy it though in a twisted way, that would be dishonest.
On December 10 2013 10:35 KaiserKieran wrote: Once he joins Azubu which I feel is a good choice for him all we need is HyuN to come back for TSL to be completely....revived. MUAHAHHAHAHAHH
On December 10 2013 03:16 HYRULE15 wrote: Well, he accomplished much more than Machine, lets see what will happen in the future, good luck to him!
I thought that Machine was supposed to be the best player on EG in practice?
Machine is just the western version of Soulkey. With some more flaws and some less strengths.
Who the hell is Machine? (I know who he is..) What has he accomplished? Results? Does he cast? Does he host? What are his stream numbers? Is he even grandmaster?
How the hell are you comparing him to Revival, let alone Soulkey
On December 10 2013 03:16 HYRULE15 wrote: Well, he accomplished much more than Machine, lets see what will happen in the future, good luck to him!
I thought that Machine was supposed to be the best player on EG in practice?
Machine is just the western version of Soulkey. With some more flaws and some less strengths.
Who the hell is Machine? (I know who he is..) What has he accomplished? Results? Does he cast? Does he host? What are his stream numbers? Is he even grandmaster?
How the hell are you comparing him to Revival, let alone Soulkey
On December 10 2013 03:16 HYRULE15 wrote: Well, he accomplished much more than Machine, lets see what will happen in the future, good luck to him!
I thought that Machine was supposed to be the best player on EG in practice?
Machine is just the western version of Soulkey. With some more flaws and some less strengths.
Who the hell is Machine? (I know who he is..) What has he accomplished? Results? Does he cast? Does he host? What are his stream numbers? Is he even grandmaster?
How the hell are you comparing him to Revival, let alone Soulkey
On December 10 2013 03:16 HYRULE15 wrote: Well, he accomplished much more than Machine, lets see what will happen in the future, good luck to him!
I thought that Machine was supposed to be the best player on EG in practice?
Machine is just the western version of Soulkey. With some more flaws and some less strengths.
Who the hell is Machine? (I know who he is..) What has he accomplished? Results? Does he cast? Does he host? What are his stream numbers? Is he even grandmaster?
How the hell are you comparing him to Revival, let alone Soulkey
Machine has an extremely important role to fulfil on team EG- spotting for incontrol.
That's part of it. Another part of it is the player's expectations. If Machine, iNcontrol, or Thorzain were on the same contract as Revival, getting the same salary, and expecting to go to the same tournaments, I have no doubt they would get cut as well. It's all about understanding what your worth is to a team and then make a deal around that. To EG, Revival's worth isn't the same now as it was a year ago when he was getting better results and EG needed korean based players for PL. So it's either, take a pay cut and stop going to tournaments or try to find another team.
That's another part of it, I agree. We don't know the inner-workings of it all, but we have to assume that the responsibilities of the team also mean food, housing, travel and such for members. On top of that, some kind of salary. Anything less would be somewhat of a black eye on EG for treating it's players poorly, which they will not do.
The key is, considering what they get in return for exposure regarding Korean players like Revival, Oz and Alive, it probably just isn't worth it anymore to cover the expenses. I completely agree with you that pro-league was the reason they picked these guys up. It would have been great for EG to have a full team in Korea with that much exposure. But since that's gone now, I'm guessing that these guys will be gone soon, as well.
On December 10 2013 04:38 WolfintheSheep wrote:
I highly doubt that anyone on EG is getting the axe. The last players not to get a contract offer were AxSlav and Strifecro, and that was two years ago? And we don't even know how there negotiations went...they could very well have gotten new contract offers.
EG has shown that they'll offer to renew contracts with basically everyone on the team, at what seems to be accurate market value.
I disagree. I would speculate that Revival got axed against his will. I would say the same is going to happen to Alive, and he knows it. Otherwise, why would Revival not already have a team lined up if he chose to leave on his own? In addition, why would Alive be trying to contact Complexity publicly on twitter all of the sudden? It's speculation, but I think the entire Korean roster is going to get axed with the exception of Jaedong. And Puma was also axed not so long ago, if you remember. The Koreans have to add something particularly special for a team like EG to keep them on, as they don't have enough foreign fans to justify the investment. Stream numbers are a good indication of ROI for EG.
what if eg offered him a rly bad contract ? no pro house , no lan support except for those tournaments where he qualify . i wanna see a top tier pro ( he almost qualified for blizzcon) accepting a bad contract .
EG didn't offer him a bad contract. Many Koreans and foreign teams have different views on what they want. EG and Revival just happen to be another case of it. Again, Revival left out of his own will. I'll make a blog post later to raise some issues that I think everyone would like to read/talk about.
On December 09 2013 20:59 boxerfred wrote: Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
The lobby chat i translated is 100% correct
The lobby chat you translated is not 100% correct. Please stop.
Can you tell me which part was incorrect. You did the translation yourself and it doesnt make too much difference to me. All you did was adding symbol, hyun chat to what I actually wrote.
On December 09 2013 20:59 boxerfred wrote: Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
Okay, seriously, lower your pitchforks please. I think you guys took the screenshot completely out of context. Can we at least have a full translation instead of picking and choosing which parts to translate and which parts to not? Shame on you mongmong.
Revival: Where do I register? Symbol: This friday Revival: They don't even tell us things like this HyuN: But hey Revival (He called Revival Jjakddongah, which is a nickname that the TSL players use for him) Symbol: If you go into the site Revival: This is really a trash team Symbol: It says it there Hyun: There's an overlap with WCG qualifiers Symbol: lolol Hyun: and IEM finals
Yes, it's true, Revival used the term "trash team." Yes, it was unprofessional, and yes, it was quite rude. Yes, he was stupid for leaving his stream on by accident while he was having this conversation.
However, this conversation, from what I understand from talking to Revival, isn't even recent. This was his own personal conversation that he was having with HyuN and Symbol BEFORE WCG 2013 Qualifiers (Based on HyuN's comment in the conversation), which was back in July. This was a misunderstanding. Revival thought that EG didn't tell him about WCG qualifiers, but that was because Revival would be in Shanghai for IEM (which he ended up winning if memory serves me right.)
Revival was simply having a bad day and this was ONE moment where he was experiencing frustration. It wasn't right to take it out on his team, but **** happens, and everyone's a human who makes mistakes. When I talked to Revival about it, he felt bad/sorry that this came up online, but he didn't know how to address it or go about it, which is why I'm writing this for him.
I know Revival, HyuN, and Symbol personally from working with TSL before it disbanded, and Revival is a super humble person who PROBABLY, other than HyuN, shows the greatest amount of empathy for others. When my father had a heart attack a while back, Revival was one of the first people who checked up on me.
Please don't ruin someone's image for something that's taken largely out of context. No where in that screenshot does he complain about his salary or anything like that. He left EG on good terms and he has a lot of respect for that team.
Thanks.
And yeah ,let's call your team trash when other players/observers/casters are all in the lobby shall we? I have nothing against Revival, but comments like that show people how immature those players are. You did admit it was unprofessional didn't you? I'd also like to read the connenction between being professional and being a nice guy because funnily enough you mentioned him being suuuuuper nice to you lololol
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
Because you're making Revival look like a bad person when he's not.
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
Because you're making Revival look like a bad person when he's not.
Where? how? I uploaded a screenshot, translated chat log and called it unprofessional. That was all I did and I don't know how im trying to make him look like a bad person. Oh yeah im pretty sure he is a nice guy if his friend says so but being nice=/ being professional.
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
I support this notion
are we talking in game or are we talking an actual translating match? because the second one would be pretty boring I think. on topic probably better to keep this stuff to pms and drop it.
On December 09 2013 20:59 boxerfred wrote: Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
Okay, seriously, lower your pitchforks please. I think you guys took the screenshot completely out of context. Can we at least have a full translation instead of picking and choosing which parts to translate and which parts to not? Shame on you mongmong.
Revival: Where do I register? Symbol: This friday Revival: They don't even tell us things like this HyuN: But hey Revival (He called Revival Jjakddongah, which is a nickname that the TSL players use for him) Symbol: If you go into the site Revival: This is really a trash team Symbol: It says it there Hyun: There's an overlap with WCG qualifiers Symbol: lolol Hyun: and IEM finals
Yes, it's true, Revival used the term "trash team." Yes, it was unprofessional, and yes, it was quite rude. Yes, he was stupid for leaving his stream on by accident while he was having this conversation.
However, this conversation, from what I understand from talking to Revival, isn't even recent. This was his own personal conversation that he was having with HyuN and Symbol BEFORE WCG 2013 Qualifiers (Based on HyuN's comment in the conversation), which was back in July. This was a misunderstanding. Revival thought that EG didn't tell him about WCG qualifiers, but that was because Revival would be in Shanghai for IEM (which he ended up winning if memory serves me right.)
Revival was simply having a bad day and this was ONE moment where he was experiencing frustration. It wasn't right to take it out on his team, but **** happens, and everyone's a human who makes mistakes. When I talked to Revival about it, he felt bad/sorry that this came up online, but he didn't know how to address it or go about it, which is why I'm writing this for him.
I know Revival, HyuN, and Symbol personally from working with TSL before it disbanded, and Revival is a super humble person who PROBABLY, other than HyuN, shows the greatest amount of empathy for others. When my father had a heart attack a while back, Revival was one of the first people who checked up on me.
Please don't ruin someone's image for something that's taken largely out of context. No where in that screenshot does he complain about his salary or anything like that. He left EG on good terms and he has a lot of respect for that team.
Thanks.
And yeah ,let's call your team trash when other players/observers/casters are all in the lobby shall we? I have nothing against Revival, but comments like that show people how immature those players are. You did admit it was unprofessional didn't you? I'd also like to read the connenction between being professional and being a nice guy because funnily enough you mentioned him being suuuuuper nice to you lololol
It was just a mistake on Revival's part. No one's perfect. We've all said things we didn't mean really mean to. It's just natural to talk about that kind of stuff with your friends. I'm sure Revival was just a little upset. In fact, dearyuna stated that Revival and EG parted on good terms. So that screenshot doesn't mean anything anymore.
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
She's not "bitching" about it. She's just trying to correct your mistake.
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
Because you're making Revival look like a bad person when he's not.
Where? how? I uploaded a screenshot, translated chat log and called it unprofessional. That was all I did and I don't know how im trying to make him look like a bad person. Oh yeah im pretty sure he is a nice guy if his friend says so but being nice=/ being professional.
There was nothing wrong with what you did. Uploading a screenshot and translating what the players say is a common thing that occurs frequently. However, yuna pointed out that this conversation occurred a long time ago, and that it was also a misunderstanding between EG and Revival. Because of what you posted, people formed negative opinions about Revival. yuna was just trying to clarify things by explaining things in better context so that people would understand that while Revival made a mistake, it was all just a big misunderstanding.
On December 10 2013 03:16 HYRULE15 wrote: Well, he accomplished much more than Machine, lets see what will happen in the future, good luck to him!
I thought that Machine was supposed to be the best player on EG in practice?
Machine is just the western version of Soulkey. With some more flaws and some less strengths.
Who the hell is Machine? (I know who he is..) What has he accomplished? Results? Does he cast? Does he host? What are his stream numbers? Is he even grandmaster?
How the hell are you comparing him to Revival, let alone Soulkey
Machine has an extremely important role to fulfil on team EG- spotting for incontrol.
On December 09 2013 20:59 boxerfred wrote: Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
Okay, seriously, lower your pitchforks please. I think you guys took the screenshot completely out of context. Can we at least have a full translation instead of picking and choosing which parts to translate and which parts to not? Shame on you mongmong.
Revival: Where do I register? Symbol: This friday Revival: They don't even tell us things like this HyuN: But hey Revival (He called Revival Jjakddongah, which is a nickname that the TSL players use for him) Symbol: If you go into the site Revival: This is really a trash team Symbol: It says it there Hyun: There's an overlap with WCG qualifiers Symbol: lolol Hyun: and IEM finals
Yes, it's true, Revival used the term "trash team." Yes, it was unprofessional, and yes, it was quite rude. Yes, he was stupid for leaving his stream on by accident while he was having this conversation.
However, this conversation, from what I understand from talking to Revival, isn't even recent. This was his own personal conversation that he was having with HyuN and Symbol BEFORE WCG 2013 Qualifiers (Based on HyuN's comment in the conversation), which was back in July. This was a misunderstanding. Revival thought that EG didn't tell him about WCG qualifiers, but that was because Revival would be in Shanghai for IEM (which he ended up winning if memory serves me right.)
Revival was simply having a bad day and this was ONE moment where he was experiencing frustration. It wasn't right to take it out on his team, but **** happens, and everyone's a human who makes mistakes. When I talked to Revival about it, he felt bad/sorry that this came up online, but he didn't know how to address it or go about it, which is why I'm writing this for him.
I know Revival, HyuN, and Symbol personally from working with TSL before it disbanded, and Revival is a super humble person who PROBABLY, other than HyuN, shows the greatest amount of empathy for others. When my father had a heart attack a while back, Revival was one of the first people who checked up on me.
Please don't ruin someone's image for something that's taken largely out of context. No where in that screenshot does he complain about his salary or anything like that. He left EG on good terms and he has a lot of respect for that team.
Thanks.
And yeah ,let's call your team trash when other players/observers/casters are all in the lobby shall we? I have nothing against Revival, but comments like that show people how immature those players are. You did admit it was unprofessional didn't you? I'd also like to read the connenction between being professional and being a nice guy because funnily enough you mentioned him being suuuuuper nice to you lololol
It was just a mistake on Revival's part. No one's perfect. We've all said things we didn't mean really mean to. It's just natural to talk about that kind of stuff with your friends. I'm sure Revival was just a little upset. In fact, dearyuna stated that Revival and EG parted on good terms. So that screenshot doesn't mean anything anymore.
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
She's not "bitching" about it. She's just trying to correct your mistake.
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
Because you're making Revival look like a bad person when he's not.
Where? how? I uploaded a screenshot, translated chat log and called it unprofessional. That was all I did and I don't know how im trying to make him look like a bad person. Oh yeah im pretty sure he is a nice guy if his friend says so but being nice=/ being professional.
There was nothing wrong with what you did. Uploading a screenshot and translating what the players say is a common thing that occurs frequently. However, yuna pointed out that this conversation occurred a long time ago, and that it was also a misunderstanding between EG and Revival. Because of what you posted, people formed negative opinions about Revival. yuna was just trying to clarify things by explaining things in better context so that people would understand that while Revival made a mistake, it was all just a big misunderstanding.
I don't care what people think about Revival tbh... if you want to look nice to others, don't say shit like that when 10+ people are with you in the lobby, simple isnt it? Maybe we should trace the guy(or girl) who took the screenshot! he probably uploaded it on the internet with some malicious intent
By correcting mistake? what mistake? I haven't made any mistake. That girl was just furious about Revival getting bad image lol.
On December 09 2013 20:59 boxerfred wrote: Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
Okay, seriously, lower your pitchforks please. I think you guys took the screenshot completely out of context. Can we at least have a full translation instead of picking and choosing which parts to translate and which parts to not? Shame on you mongmong.
Revival: Where do I register? Symbol: This friday Revival: They don't even tell us things like this HyuN: But hey Revival (He called Revival Jjakddongah, which is a nickname that the TSL players use for him) Symbol: If you go into the site Revival: This is really a trash team Symbol: It says it there Hyun: There's an overlap with WCG qualifiers Symbol: lolol Hyun: and IEM finals
Yes, it's true, Revival used the term "trash team." Yes, it was unprofessional, and yes, it was quite rude. Yes, he was stupid for leaving his stream on by accident while he was having this conversation.
However, this conversation, from what I understand from talking to Revival, isn't even recent. This was his own personal conversation that he was having with HyuN and Symbol BEFORE WCG 2013 Qualifiers (Based on HyuN's comment in the conversation), which was back in July. This was a misunderstanding. Revival thought that EG didn't tell him about WCG qualifiers, but that was because Revival would be in Shanghai for IEM (which he ended up winning if memory serves me right.)
Revival was simply having a bad day and this was ONE moment where he was experiencing frustration. It wasn't right to take it out on his team, but **** happens, and everyone's a human who makes mistakes. When I talked to Revival about it, he felt bad/sorry that this came up online, but he didn't know how to address it or go about it, which is why I'm writing this for him.
I know Revival, HyuN, and Symbol personally from working with TSL before it disbanded, and Revival is a super humble person who PROBABLY, other than HyuN, shows the greatest amount of empathy for others. When my father had a heart attack a while back, Revival was one of the first people who checked up on me.
Please don't ruin someone's image for something that's taken largely out of context. No where in that screenshot does he complain about his salary or anything like that. He left EG on good terms and he has a lot of respect for that team.
Thanks.
And yeah ,let's call your team trash when other players/observers/casters are all in the lobby shall we? I have nothing against Revival, but comments like that show people how immature those players are. You did admit it was unprofessional didn't you? I'd also like to read the connenction between being professional and being a nice guy because funnily enough you mentioned him being suuuuuper nice to you lololol
It was just a mistake on Revival's part. No one's perfect. We've all said things we didn't mean really mean to. It's just natural to talk about that kind of stuff with your friends. I'm sure Revival was just a little upset. In fact, dearyuna stated that Revival and EG parted on good terms. So that screenshot doesn't mean anything anymore.
On December 10 2013 14:55 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
dearyuna is a she. She is a well known translator in the world of eSports and highly respected. And honestly, I'd be maaaaaaaaaaaaaaad too.
On December 10 2013 15:22 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:12 Elite_ wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:55 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
She's not "bitching" about it. She's just trying to correct your mistake.
On December 10 2013 15:32 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:28 Elite_ wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:22 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:12 Elite_ wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:55 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
Because you're making Revival look like a bad person when he's not.
Where? how? I uploaded a screenshot, translated chat log and called it unprofessional. That was all I did and I don't know how im trying to make him look like a bad person. Oh yeah im pretty sure he is a nice guy if his friend says so but being nice=/ being professional.
There was nothing wrong with what you did. Uploading a screenshot and translating what the players say is a common thing that occurs frequently. However, yuna pointed out that this conversation occurred a long time ago, and that it was also a misunderstanding between EG and Revival. Because of what you posted, people formed negative opinions about Revival. yuna was just trying to clarify things by explaining things in better context so that people would understand that while Revival made a mistake, it was all just a big misunderstanding.
I don't care what people think about Revival tbh... if you want to look nice to others, don't say shit like that when 10+ people are with you in the lobby, simple isnt it? Maybe we should trace the guy(or girl) who took the screenshot! he probably uploaded it on the internet with some malicious intent
By correcting mistake? what mistake? I haven't made any mistake. That girl was just furious about Revival getting bad image lol.
She stated that Revival said what he said because he thought EG purposely didn't tell him about WCG qualifiers, when in fact, EG just didn't say anything because they knew he was going to be at IEM during that time. So while it wasn't necessarily a mistake on your part, a mistake did occur because of the lack of information behind that screenshot conversation.
On December 09 2013 20:59 boxerfred wrote: Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
Okay, seriously, lower your pitchforks please. I think you guys took the screenshot completely out of context. Can we at least have a full translation instead of picking and choosing which parts to translate and which parts to not? Shame on you mongmong.
Revival: Where do I register? Symbol: This friday Revival: They don't even tell us things like this HyuN: But hey Revival (He called Revival Jjakddongah, which is a nickname that the TSL players use for him) Symbol: If you go into the site Revival: This is really a trash team Symbol: It says it there Hyun: There's an overlap with WCG qualifiers Symbol: lolol Hyun: and IEM finals
Yes, it's true, Revival used the term "trash team." Yes, it was unprofessional, and yes, it was quite rude. Yes, he was stupid for leaving his stream on by accident while he was having this conversation.
However, this conversation, from what I understand from talking to Revival, isn't even recent. This was his own personal conversation that he was having with HyuN and Symbol BEFORE WCG 2013 Qualifiers (Based on HyuN's comment in the conversation), which was back in July. This was a misunderstanding. Revival thought that EG didn't tell him about WCG qualifiers, but that was because Revival would be in Shanghai for IEM (which he ended up winning if memory serves me right.)
Revival was simply having a bad day and this was ONE moment where he was experiencing frustration. It wasn't right to take it out on his team, but **** happens, and everyone's a human who makes mistakes. When I talked to Revival about it, he felt bad/sorry that this came up online, but he didn't know how to address it or go about it, which is why I'm writing this for him.
I know Revival, HyuN, and Symbol personally from working with TSL before it disbanded, and Revival is a super humble person who PROBABLY, other than HyuN, shows the greatest amount of empathy for others. When my father had a heart attack a while back, Revival was one of the first people who checked up on me.
Please don't ruin someone's image for something that's taken largely out of context. No where in that screenshot does he complain about his salary or anything like that. He left EG on good terms and he has a lot of respect for that team.
Thanks.
And yeah ,let's call your team trash when other players/observers/casters are all in the lobby shall we? I have nothing against Revival, but comments like that show people how immature those players are. You did admit it was unprofessional didn't you? I'd also like to read the connenction between being professional and being a nice guy because funnily enough you mentioned him being suuuuuper nice to you lololol
It was just a mistake on Revival's part. No one's perfect. We've all said things we didn't mean really mean to. It's just natural to talk about that kind of stuff with your friends. I'm sure Revival was just a little upset. In fact, dearyuna stated that Revival and EG parted on good terms. So that screenshot doesn't mean anything anymore.
On December 10 2013 14:55 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
dearyuna is a she. She is a well known translator in the world of eSports and highly respected. And honestly, I'd be maaaaaaaaaaaaaaad too.
On December 10 2013 15:22 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:12 Elite_ wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:55 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
She's not "bitching" about it. She's just trying to correct your mistake.
On December 10 2013 15:32 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:28 Elite_ wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:22 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:12 Elite_ wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:55 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
Because you're making Revival look like a bad person when he's not.
Where? how? I uploaded a screenshot, translated chat log and called it unprofessional. That was all I did and I don't know how im trying to make him look like a bad person. Oh yeah im pretty sure he is a nice guy if his friend says so but being nice=/ being professional.
There was nothing wrong with what you did. Uploading a screenshot and translating what the players say is a common thing that occurs frequently. However, yuna pointed out that this conversation occurred a long time ago, and that it was also a misunderstanding between EG and Revival. Because of what you posted, people formed negative opinions about Revival. yuna was just trying to clarify things by explaining things in better context so that people would understand that while Revival made a mistake, it was all just a big misunderstanding.
I don't care what people think about Revival tbh... if you want to look nice to others, don't say shit like that when 10+ people are with you in the lobby, simple isnt it? Maybe we should trace the guy(or girl) who took the screenshot! he probably uploaded it on the internet with some malicious intent
By correcting mistake? what mistake? I haven't made any mistake. That girl was just furious about Revival getting bad image lol.
She stated that Revival said what he said because he thought EG purposely didn't tell him about WCG qualifiers, when in fact, EG just didn't say anything because they knew he was going to be at IEM during that time. So while it wasn't necessarily a mistake on your part, a mistake did occur because of the lack of information behind that screenshot conversation.
So EG didn't tell anything to Revival knowing that he would be attending IEM. Revival thought EG management was being lazy therefore called his team trash.
I don't know what has changed really? EG didn't do anything wrong. Revival made a stupid mistake of calling his team trash in a lobby with 10+ people or it could be interpreted as "EG being incompetent"
Revival is still in the wrong for saying something like that hastily for people to see, but at least dearyuna's translation explains the circumstances behind it.
EG didn't tell Revival about the qualifiers. Revival didn't understand why they wouldn't tell him, and got upset. Turns out it was because of Revival's participation in IEM Shanghai.
Revival didn't say it because he's a bad or arrogant person, as some people concluded. He said it because he was upset with EG because of the miscommunication. He's still wrong for saying it but at least people now understand that he said it in frustration (and EG really didn't tell him about it, even though they had a reason) and not spite.
On December 09 2013 20:59 boxerfred wrote: Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
Okay, seriously, lower your pitchforks please. I think you guys took the screenshot completely out of context. Can we at least have a full translation instead of picking and choosing which parts to translate and which parts to not? Shame on you mongmong.
Revival: Where do I register? Symbol: This friday Revival: They don't even tell us things like this HyuN: But hey Revival (He called Revival Jjakddongah, which is a nickname that the TSL players use for him) Symbol: If you go into the site Revival: This is really a trash team Symbol: It says it there Hyun: There's an overlap with WCG qualifiers Symbol: lolol Hyun: and IEM finals
Yes, it's true, Revival used the term "trash team." Yes, it was unprofessional, and yes, it was quite rude. Yes, he was stupid for leaving his stream on by accident while he was having this conversation.
However, this conversation, from what I understand from talking to Revival, isn't even recent. This was his own personal conversation that he was having with HyuN and Symbol BEFORE WCG 2013 Qualifiers (Based on HyuN's comment in the conversation), which was back in July. This was a misunderstanding. Revival thought that EG didn't tell him about WCG qualifiers, but that was because Revival would be in Shanghai for IEM (which he ended up winning if memory serves me right.)
Revival was simply having a bad day and this was ONE moment where he was experiencing frustration. It wasn't right to take it out on his team, but **** happens, and everyone's a human who makes mistakes. When I talked to Revival about it, he felt bad/sorry that this came up online, but he didn't know how to address it or go about it, which is why I'm writing this for him.
I know Revival, HyuN, and Symbol personally from working with TSL before it disbanded, and Revival is a super humble person who PROBABLY, other than HyuN, shows the greatest amount of empathy for others. When my father had a heart attack a while back, Revival was one of the first people who checked up on me.
Please don't ruin someone's image for something that's taken largely out of context. No where in that screenshot does he complain about his salary or anything like that. He left EG on good terms and he has a lot of respect for that team.
Thanks.
And yeah ,let's call your team trash when other players/observers/casters are all in the lobby shall we? I have nothing against Revival, but comments like that show people how immature those players are. You did admit it was unprofessional didn't you? I'd also like to read the connenction between being professional and being a nice guy because funnily enough you mentioned him being suuuuuper nice to you lololol
It was just a mistake on Revival's part. No one's perfect. We've all said things we didn't mean really mean to. It's just natural to talk about that kind of stuff with your friends. I'm sure Revival was just a little upset. In fact, dearyuna stated that Revival and EG parted on good terms. So that screenshot doesn't mean anything anymore.
On December 10 2013 14:55 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
dearyuna is a she. She is a well known translator in the world of eSports and highly respected. And honestly, I'd be maaaaaaaaaaaaaaad too.
On December 10 2013 15:22 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:12 Elite_ wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:55 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
She's not "bitching" about it. She's just trying to correct your mistake.
On December 10 2013 15:32 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:28 Elite_ wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:22 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:12 Elite_ wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:55 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
Because you're making Revival look like a bad person when he's not.
Where? how? I uploaded a screenshot, translated chat log and called it unprofessional. That was all I did and I don't know how im trying to make him look like a bad person. Oh yeah im pretty sure he is a nice guy if his friend says so but being nice=/ being professional.
There was nothing wrong with what you did. Uploading a screenshot and translating what the players say is a common thing that occurs frequently. However, yuna pointed out that this conversation occurred a long time ago, and that it was also a misunderstanding between EG and Revival. Because of what you posted, people formed negative opinions about Revival. yuna was just trying to clarify things by explaining things in better context so that people would understand that while Revival made a mistake, it was all just a big misunderstanding.
I don't care what people think about Revival tbh... if you want to look nice to others, don't say shit like that when 10+ people are with you in the lobby, simple isnt it? Maybe we should trace the guy(or girl) who took the screenshot! he probably uploaded it on the internet with some malicious intent
By correcting mistake? what mistake? I haven't made any mistake. That girl was just furious about Revival getting bad image lol.
She stated that Revival said what he said because he thought EG purposely didn't tell him about WCG qualifiers, when in fact, EG just didn't say anything because they knew he was going to be at IEM during that time. So while it wasn't necessarily a mistake on your part, a mistake did occur because of the lack of information behind that screenshot conversation.
So EG didn't tell anything to Revival knowing that he would be attending IEM. Revival thought EG management was being lazy therefore called his team trash.
I don't know what has changed really? EG didn't do anything wrong. Revival made a stupid mistake of calling his team trash in a lobby with 10+ people or it could be interpreted as "EG being incompetent"
The problem is that you're trying to link one minor chat "incident" (and it barely even qualifies for that) to Revival's attitude in general, and his leaving EG.
On December 09 2013 20:59 boxerfred wrote: Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
Okay, seriously, lower your pitchforks please. I think you guys took the screenshot completely out of context. Can we at least have a full translation instead of picking and choosing which parts to translate and which parts to not? Shame on you mongmong.
Revival: Where do I register? Symbol: This friday Revival: They don't even tell us things like this HyuN: But hey Revival (He called Revival Jjakddongah, which is a nickname that the TSL players use for him) Symbol: If you go into the site Revival: This is really a trash team Symbol: It says it there Hyun: There's an overlap with WCG qualifiers Symbol: lolol Hyun: and IEM finals
Yes, it's true, Revival used the term "trash team." Yes, it was unprofessional, and yes, it was quite rude. Yes, he was stupid for leaving his stream on by accident while he was having this conversation.
However, this conversation, from what I understand from talking to Revival, isn't even recent. This was his own personal conversation that he was having with HyuN and Symbol BEFORE WCG 2013 Qualifiers (Based on HyuN's comment in the conversation), which was back in July. This was a misunderstanding. Revival thought that EG didn't tell him about WCG qualifiers, but that was because Revival would be in Shanghai for IEM (which he ended up winning if memory serves me right.)
Revival was simply having a bad day and this was ONE moment where he was experiencing frustration. It wasn't right to take it out on his team, but **** happens, and everyone's a human who makes mistakes. When I talked to Revival about it, he felt bad/sorry that this came up online, but he didn't know how to address it or go about it, which is why I'm writing this for him.
I know Revival, HyuN, and Symbol personally from working with TSL before it disbanded, and Revival is a super humble person who PROBABLY, other than HyuN, shows the greatest amount of empathy for others. When my father had a heart attack a while back, Revival was one of the first people who checked up on me.
Please don't ruin someone's image for something that's taken largely out of context. No where in that screenshot does he complain about his salary or anything like that. He left EG on good terms and he has a lot of respect for that team.
Thanks.
And yeah ,let's call your team trash when other players/observers/casters are all in the lobby shall we? I have nothing against Revival, but comments like that show people how immature those players are. You did admit it was unprofessional didn't you? I'd also like to read the connenction between being professional and being a nice guy because funnily enough you mentioned him being suuuuuper nice to you lololol
It was just a mistake on Revival's part. No one's perfect. We've all said things we didn't mean really mean to. It's just natural to talk about that kind of stuff with your friends. I'm sure Revival was just a little upset. In fact, dearyuna stated that Revival and EG parted on good terms. So that screenshot doesn't mean anything anymore.
On December 10 2013 14:55 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
dearyuna is a she. She is a well known translator in the world of eSports and highly respected. And honestly, I'd be maaaaaaaaaaaaaaad too.
On December 10 2013 15:22 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:12 Elite_ wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:55 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
She's not "bitching" about it. She's just trying to correct your mistake.
On December 10 2013 15:32 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:28 Elite_ wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:22 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:12 Elite_ wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:55 mongmong wrote: [quote]
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
Because you're making Revival look like a bad person when he's not.
Where? how? I uploaded a screenshot, translated chat log and called it unprofessional. That was all I did and I don't know how im trying to make him look like a bad person. Oh yeah im pretty sure he is a nice guy if his friend says so but being nice=/ being professional.
There was nothing wrong with what you did. Uploading a screenshot and translating what the players say is a common thing that occurs frequently. However, yuna pointed out that this conversation occurred a long time ago, and that it was also a misunderstanding between EG and Revival. Because of what you posted, people formed negative opinions about Revival. yuna was just trying to clarify things by explaining things in better context so that people would understand that while Revival made a mistake, it was all just a big misunderstanding.
I don't care what people think about Revival tbh... if you want to look nice to others, don't say shit like that when 10+ people are with you in the lobby, simple isnt it? Maybe we should trace the guy(or girl) who took the screenshot! he probably uploaded it on the internet with some malicious intent
By correcting mistake? what mistake? I haven't made any mistake. That girl was just furious about Revival getting bad image lol.
She stated that Revival said what he said because he thought EG purposely didn't tell him about WCG qualifiers, when in fact, EG just didn't say anything because they knew he was going to be at IEM during that time. So while it wasn't necessarily a mistake on your part, a mistake did occur because of the lack of information behind that screenshot conversation.
So EG didn't tell anything to Revival knowing that he would be attending IEM. Revival thought EG management was being lazy therefore called his team trash.
I don't know what has changed really? EG didn't do anything wrong. Revival made a stupid mistake of calling his team trash in a lobby with 10+ people or it could be interpreted as "EG being incompetent"
The problem is that you're trying to link one minor chat "incident" (and it barely even qualifies for that) to Revival's attitude in general, and his leaving EG.
No I wasnt. My posts did not reflect my thoughts on Revival's general attitude. OK yep I did call him unprofessional because of that incident but it doesnt really mean he is unprofessional, arrogant jerk all the time does it? I think it's time to move on. I seriously do not understand dearyuna's intention of translating the rest of the chatlog other than implying "see! there was misunderstanding between eg and revival! " which doesn't change the fact that he called his team incompetent.
On December 09 2013 20:59 boxerfred wrote: Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
Okay, seriously, lower your pitchforks please. I think you guys took the screenshot completely out of context. Can we at least have a full translation instead of picking and choosing which parts to translate and which parts to not? Shame on you mongmong.
Revival: Where do I register? Symbol: This friday Revival: They don't even tell us things like this HyuN: But hey Revival (He called Revival Jjakddongah, which is a nickname that the TSL players use for him) Symbol: If you go into the site Revival: This is really a trash team Symbol: It says it there Hyun: There's an overlap with WCG qualifiers Symbol: lolol Hyun: and IEM finals
Yes, it's true, Revival used the term "trash team." Yes, it was unprofessional, and yes, it was quite rude. Yes, he was stupid for leaving his stream on by accident while he was having this conversation.
However, this conversation, from what I understand from talking to Revival, isn't even recent. This was his own personal conversation that he was having with HyuN and Symbol BEFORE WCG 2013 Qualifiers (Based on HyuN's comment in the conversation), which was back in July. This was a misunderstanding. Revival thought that EG didn't tell him about WCG qualifiers, but that was because Revival would be in Shanghai for IEM (which he ended up winning if memory serves me right.)
Revival was simply having a bad day and this was ONE moment where he was experiencing frustration. It wasn't right to take it out on his team, but **** happens, and everyone's a human who makes mistakes. When I talked to Revival about it, he felt bad/sorry that this came up online, but he didn't know how to address it or go about it, which is why I'm writing this for him.
I know Revival, HyuN, and Symbol personally from working with TSL before it disbanded, and Revival is a super humble person who PROBABLY, other than HyuN, shows the greatest amount of empathy for others. When my father had a heart attack a while back, Revival was one of the first people who checked up on me.
Please don't ruin someone's image for something that's taken largely out of context. No where in that screenshot does he complain about his salary or anything like that. He left EG on good terms and he has a lot of respect for that team.
Thanks.
And yeah ,let's call your team trash when other players/observers/casters are all in the lobby shall we? I have nothing against Revival, but comments like that show people how immature those players are. You did admit it was unprofessional didn't you? I'd also like to read the connenction between being professional and being a nice guy because funnily enough you mentioned him being suuuuuper nice to you lololol
It was just a mistake on Revival's part. No one's perfect. We've all said things we didn't mean really mean to. It's just natural to talk about that kind of stuff with your friends. I'm sure Revival was just a little upset. In fact, dearyuna stated that Revival and EG parted on good terms. So that screenshot doesn't mean anything anymore.
On December 10 2013 14:55 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
dearyuna is a she. She is a well known translator in the world of eSports and highly respected. And honestly, I'd be maaaaaaaaaaaaaaad too.
On December 10 2013 15:22 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:12 Elite_ wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:55 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
She's not "bitching" about it. She's just trying to correct your mistake.
On December 10 2013 15:32 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:28 Elite_ wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:22 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:12 Elite_ wrote: [quote] That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
Because you're making Revival look like a bad person when he's not.
Where? how? I uploaded a screenshot, translated chat log and called it unprofessional. That was all I did and I don't know how im trying to make him look like a bad person. Oh yeah im pretty sure he is a nice guy if his friend says so but being nice=/ being professional.
There was nothing wrong with what you did. Uploading a screenshot and translating what the players say is a common thing that occurs frequently. However, yuna pointed out that this conversation occurred a long time ago, and that it was also a misunderstanding between EG and Revival. Because of what you posted, people formed negative opinions about Revival. yuna was just trying to clarify things by explaining things in better context so that people would understand that while Revival made a mistake, it was all just a big misunderstanding.
I don't care what people think about Revival tbh... if you want to look nice to others, don't say shit like that when 10+ people are with you in the lobby, simple isnt it? Maybe we should trace the guy(or girl) who took the screenshot! he probably uploaded it on the internet with some malicious intent
By correcting mistake? what mistake? I haven't made any mistake. That girl was just furious about Revival getting bad image lol.
She stated that Revival said what he said because he thought EG purposely didn't tell him about WCG qualifiers, when in fact, EG just didn't say anything because they knew he was going to be at IEM during that time. So while it wasn't necessarily a mistake on your part, a mistake did occur because of the lack of information behind that screenshot conversation.
So EG didn't tell anything to Revival knowing that he would be attending IEM. Revival thought EG management was being lazy therefore called his team trash.
I don't know what has changed really? EG didn't do anything wrong. Revival made a stupid mistake of calling his team trash in a lobby with 10+ people or it could be interpreted as "EG being incompetent"
The problem is that you're trying to link one minor chat "incident" (and it barely even qualifies for that) to Revival's attitude in general, and his leaving EG.
No I wasnt. My posts did not reflect my thoughts on Revival's general attitude. OK yep I did call him unprofessional because of that incident but it doesnt really mean he is unprofessional, arrogant jerk all the time does it? I think it's time to move on. I seriously do not understand dearyuna's intention of translating the rest of the chatlog other than implying "see! there was misunderstanding between eg and revival! " which doesn't change the fact that he called his team incompetent.
The fact that you even posted it and translated it means you're giving it far more weight than it actually deserves.
On December 09 2013 20:59 boxerfred wrote: Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
Okay, seriously, lower your pitchforks please. I think you guys took the screenshot completely out of context. Can we at least have a full translation instead of picking and choosing which parts to translate and which parts to not? Shame on you mongmong.
Revival: Where do I register? Symbol: This friday Revival: They don't even tell us things like this HyuN: But hey Revival (He called Revival Jjakddongah, which is a nickname that the TSL players use for him) Symbol: If you go into the site Revival: This is really a trash team Symbol: It says it there Hyun: There's an overlap with WCG qualifiers Symbol: lolol Hyun: and IEM finals
Yes, it's true, Revival used the term "trash team." Yes, it was unprofessional, and yes, it was quite rude. Yes, he was stupid for leaving his stream on by accident while he was having this conversation.
However, this conversation, from what I understand from talking to Revival, isn't even recent. This was his own personal conversation that he was having with HyuN and Symbol BEFORE WCG 2013 Qualifiers (Based on HyuN's comment in the conversation), which was back in July. This was a misunderstanding. Revival thought that EG didn't tell him about WCG qualifiers, but that was because Revival would be in Shanghai for IEM (which he ended up winning if memory serves me right.)
Revival was simply having a bad day and this was ONE moment where he was experiencing frustration. It wasn't right to take it out on his team, but **** happens, and everyone's a human who makes mistakes. When I talked to Revival about it, he felt bad/sorry that this came up online, but he didn't know how to address it or go about it, which is why I'm writing this for him.
I know Revival, HyuN, and Symbol personally from working with TSL before it disbanded, and Revival is a super humble person who PROBABLY, other than HyuN, shows the greatest amount of empathy for others. When my father had a heart attack a while back, Revival was one of the first people who checked up on me.
Please don't ruin someone's image for something that's taken largely out of context. No where in that screenshot does he complain about his salary or anything like that. He left EG on good terms and he has a lot of respect for that team.
Thanks.
And yeah ,let's call your team trash when other players/observers/casters are all in the lobby shall we? I have nothing against Revival, but comments like that show people how immature those players are. You did admit it was unprofessional didn't you? I'd also like to read the connenction between being professional and being a nice guy because funnily enough you mentioned him being suuuuuper nice to you lololol
It was just a mistake on Revival's part. No one's perfect. We've all said things we didn't mean really mean to. It's just natural to talk about that kind of stuff with your friends. I'm sure Revival was just a little upset. In fact, dearyuna stated that Revival and EG parted on good terms. So that screenshot doesn't mean anything anymore.
On December 10 2013 14:55 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:51 lichter wrote: Translator grudgematch gogogo
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
dearyuna is a she. She is a well known translator in the world of eSports and highly respected. And honestly, I'd be maaaaaaaaaaaaaaad too.
On December 10 2013 15:22 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:12 Elite_ wrote:
On December 10 2013 14:55 mongmong wrote: [quote]
That kid was just overreacting. I had no intention of bashing Revival and apparently translating a chat log made him maaaaaaaaaaaaaad lololol
That "kid" was actually the translator for TSL... She knows Revival personally and is a lot better than you at predicting Revival's personal feelings on the matter, mostly because she actually talks to him.
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
She's not "bitching" about it. She's just trying to correct your mistake.
On December 10 2013 15:32 mongmong wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:28 Elite_ wrote:
On December 10 2013 15:22 mongmong wrote: [quote]
Yeah the thing is, She and I both admitted it was unprofessional behaviorand I don't understand why she keeps bitching about it.
Because you're making Revival look like a bad person when he's not.
Where? how? I uploaded a screenshot, translated chat log and called it unprofessional. That was all I did and I don't know how im trying to make him look like a bad person. Oh yeah im pretty sure he is a nice guy if his friend says so but being nice=/ being professional.
There was nothing wrong with what you did. Uploading a screenshot and translating what the players say is a common thing that occurs frequently. However, yuna pointed out that this conversation occurred a long time ago, and that it was also a misunderstanding between EG and Revival. Because of what you posted, people formed negative opinions about Revival. yuna was just trying to clarify things by explaining things in better context so that people would understand that while Revival made a mistake, it was all just a big misunderstanding.
I don't care what people think about Revival tbh... if you want to look nice to others, don't say shit like that when 10+ people are with you in the lobby, simple isnt it? Maybe we should trace the guy(or girl) who took the screenshot! he probably uploaded it on the internet with some malicious intent
By correcting mistake? what mistake? I haven't made any mistake. That girl was just furious about Revival getting bad image lol.
She stated that Revival said what he said because he thought EG purposely didn't tell him about WCG qualifiers, when in fact, EG just didn't say anything because they knew he was going to be at IEM during that time. So while it wasn't necessarily a mistake on your part, a mistake did occur because of the lack of information behind that screenshot conversation.
So EG didn't tell anything to Revival knowing that he would be attending IEM. Revival thought EG management was being lazy therefore called his team trash.
I don't know what has changed really? EG didn't do anything wrong. Revival made a stupid mistake of calling his team trash in a lobby with 10+ people or it could be interpreted as "EG being incompetent"
The problem is that you're trying to link one minor chat "incident" (and it barely even qualifies for that) to Revival's attitude in general, and his leaving EG.
No I wasnt. My posts did not reflect my thoughts on Revival's general attitude. OK yep I did call him unprofessional because of that incident but it doesnt really mean he is unprofessional, arrogant jerk all the time does it? I think it's time to move on. I seriously do not understand dearyuna's intention of translating the rest of the chatlog other than implying "see! there was misunderstanding between eg and revival! " which doesn't change the fact that he called his team incompetent.
The fact that you even posted it and translated it means you're giving it far more weight than it actually deserves.
On December 10 2013 00:53 sSooG wrote: EG needs high profile players... sad to see him leave but its good for the EG image
They have Jaedong. They don't need anyone else because team leagues don't matter. The others players can be their foreigners, paid little but with a good part of streaming obligations.
correction the team leagues most teams compete in don't matter. PL is a great tool for training compared to the other bush leagues because of it's duration and quality of talent. Only problem with that is you don't want to be too dependent on something that won't last forever. We've been waiting for business to pick-up and thank Heavens it's almost that time.
In terms of ROI, PL sucks for foreign teams, so it doesn't matter. Your arguments are valid, yep, but for EG, it doesn't matter.
Good player but not great. I predict a massive exodus from non-tier 1 players (tier 1 being the regular champs: innovation, life etc..). Not much money to go around and with other games gaining favor with crowds and with sponsors its a really bleak environment for these secondary dudes.
Dont think blizz has done enough to stop this and lotv wont be able to change much. Blizz wake up or lotv will be a massive failure.
On December 11 2013 01:27 Torte de Lini wrote: Will EG make an official statement on this?
It came out over the weekend and its likely going to be some sort resigning dispute. Or they are still talking. I wouldn't be shocked if Revival was asking for a bit more money than EG was willing/able to pay.
Thus is the job market and negotiating over salary.
Revival has left his team of 1 year and is now searching for a new team.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/r8gCyEc.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xZPq8D8.png)
3020
924
685
EPT
