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On December 03 2013 08:42 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 08:15 Tiaraju9 wrote:On December 03 2013 07:46 Nebuchad wrote:On December 03 2013 07:42 Tiaraju9 wrote:
He's doing a big disservice to the community with this. Each game he talks about how he shouldn't be winning and how protoss is imba and stupid and such.
Its just a bad "service" that will increase the protoss hate in our community. Its a very unprofessional way to deal with the game too.
He doesn't have that kind of power. The people who think protoss is shit will keep on thinking it, and the people who don't will keep on just the same. SjoW has been vocal about protoss for a long time. The way he comments after every game looks a bit forced to me, like he's trying to entertain us the IdrA way. I don't mind it. A lot of popular streamers talk shit about protoss. Idra, Destiny, Avilo... I blame this people for the protoss hate that have been around lately. Don't worry about that. Guys like Greg always bitched about Protoss. Anyone who remembers his remarks about MC when Bosstoss was running good should know this. Don't hate the player; hate the game ha. If I were on the other end of it I'd just ask, "Why do you still play then? Oh that's right because this is your livelihood." If you aren't passionate about what you're playing then it's time to switch things up if you really want to be happy in life. Otherwise, you're just on borrowed time.
Well there's still a reason why there's 40+% protoss in every GM and only 23% terran at the moment. It's not because of some streamers opinions. Imo it clearly shows Protoss is the most useable race to be the best in the game. Nobody switches to terran.
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Will be really stupid if he can't reach his goal with an OP easy race
...or if he "realises" that toss is not much his style after hitting a wall on high masters or low GM
...or if he reaches top 50 but keeps playing terran, just because is too dirty to play toss (still getting no results as terran)
...or if he reaches top 50, switches, and then fail to be competitive as toss, just like almost all foreigners except Naniwa.
...or makes a fame as cheeser like stardust
I just can't see the good angle of all this "jorney" or how any result will prove that Terran is UP  All pro players are expected to climb the ladder on pure mechanics and game knowlodge. Atleast we had a fun plat to masters series with lots of blink all-ins and oracle play, and a nice boost on twitch.
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No if he doesn't reach his goal, then it shows that all races can be played a high level with lowish APM, and that Toss is not simply the race that can reach the highest play with the lowest amount of APM
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On December 03 2013 09:03 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 08:42 StarStruck wrote:On December 03 2013 08:15 Tiaraju9 wrote:On December 03 2013 07:46 Nebuchad wrote:On December 03 2013 07:42 Tiaraju9 wrote:
He's doing a big disservice to the community with this. Each game he talks about how he shouldn't be winning and how protoss is imba and stupid and such.
Its just a bad "service" that will increase the protoss hate in our community. Its a very unprofessional way to deal with the game too.
He doesn't have that kind of power. The people who think protoss is shit will keep on thinking it, and the people who don't will keep on just the same. SjoW has been vocal about protoss for a long time. The way he comments after every game looks a bit forced to me, like he's trying to entertain us the IdrA way. I don't mind it. A lot of popular streamers talk shit about protoss. Idra, Destiny, Avilo... I blame this people for the protoss hate that have been around lately. Don't worry about that. Guys like Greg always bitched about Protoss. Anyone who remembers his remarks about MC when Bosstoss was running good should know this. Don't hate the player; hate the game ha. If I were on the other end of it I'd just ask, "Why do you still play then? Oh that's right because this is your livelihood." If you aren't passionate about what you're playing then it's time to switch things up if you really want to be happy in life. Otherwise, you're just on borrowed time. Well there's still a reason why there's 40+% protoss in every GM and only 23% terran at the moment. It's not because of some streamers opinions. Imo it clearly shows Protoss is the most useable race to be the best in the game. Nobody switches to terran.
Who said that there are more protoss player because of streamers opinions?
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On December 03 2013 09:18 BakedButters wrote:
No if he doesn't reach his goal, then it shows that all races can be played a high level with lowish APM, and that Toss is not simply the race that can reach the highest play with the lowest amount of APM
He's just one player guys. I wouldn't read much into it at all.
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On December 03 2013 10:03 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 09:18 BakedButters wrote:
No if he doesn't reach his goal, then it shows that all races can be played a high level with lowish APM, and that Toss is not simply the race that can reach the highest play with the lowest amount of APM He's just one player guys. I wouldn't read much into it at all.
Oh no, we will read into it. We will read into it so much. His story will be used as tinder to fuel balance arguments for years. The outcome will not matter, the evidence of protoss being ez pz is there for those who really want to find it.
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On December 03 2013 10:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 10:03 StarStruck wrote:On December 03 2013 09:18 BakedButters wrote:
No if he doesn't reach his goal, then it shows that all races can be played a high level with lowish APM, and that Toss is not simply the race that can reach the highest play with the lowest amount of APM He's just one player guys. I wouldn't read much into it at all. Oh no, we will read into it. We will read into it so much. His story will be used as tinder to fuel balance arguments for years. The outcome will not matter, the evidence of protoss being ez pz is there for those who really want to find it.
![[image loading]](http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif)
The Book of SjoWmanship.
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On December 03 2013 10:03 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 09:18 BakedButters wrote:
No if he doesn't reach his goal, then it shows that all races can be played a high level with lowish APM, and that Toss is not simply the race that can reach the highest play with the lowest amount of APM He's just one player guys. I wouldn't read much into it at all.
Of course it's just one sample data. But his case is little unique; it's the fact that he has low APM, played Terran throughout SC2. If he can surpass his Terran skill playing Protoss in a short amount of time, then it will feed to the general negativity that Protoss is the race that can most abuse low APM.
If he doesn't succeed, then the general statement that Terran is most APM intensive race is not very true
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On December 03 2013 10:14 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 10:08 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2013 10:03 StarStruck wrote:On December 03 2013 09:18 BakedButters wrote:
No if he doesn't reach his goal, then it shows that all races can be played a high level with lowish APM, and that Toss is not simply the race that can reach the highest play with the lowest amount of APM He's just one player guys. I wouldn't read much into it at all. Oh no, we will read into it. We will read into it so much. His story will be used as tinder to fuel balance arguments for years. The outcome will not matter, the evidence of protoss being ez pz is there for those who really want to find it. The Book of SjoWmanship.
...its like that joke is coming and you can't get out of the way. Well played sir.
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Taeja plays Protoss and Zerg at a high enough level to beat guys like NightEnd and Catz handily.
Enough with the balance whining. Being good at StarCraft revolves less around what race you play and more around how good your mechanics and game knowledge are.
As for balance win rates are 50% pretty much evenly for WCS events.
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On December 03 2013 10:20 BakedButters wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 10:03 StarStruck wrote:On December 03 2013 09:18 BakedButters wrote:
No if he doesn't reach his goal, then it shows that all races can be played a high level with lowish APM, and that Toss is not simply the race that can reach the highest play with the lowest amount of APM He's just one player guys. I wouldn't read much into it at all. Of course it's just one sample data. But his case is little unique; it's the fact that he has low APM, played Terran throughout SC2. If he can surpass his Terran skill playing Protoss in a short amount of time, then it will feed to the general negativity that Protoss is the race that can most abuse low APM. If he doesn't succeed, then the general statement that Terran is most APM intensive race is not very true
Then I say look at the openings most common by Protoss players these days. We're more used to seeing them be the aggressors across the board. It shouldn't really be surprising if SjoW is able to win games anywhere from the twelve to sixteen minute mark.
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On December 03 2013 10:26 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 10:20 BakedButters wrote:On December 03 2013 10:03 StarStruck wrote:On December 03 2013 09:18 BakedButters wrote:
No if he doesn't reach his goal, then it shows that all races can be played a high level with lowish APM, and that Toss is not simply the race that can reach the highest play with the lowest amount of APM He's just one player guys. I wouldn't read much into it at all. Of course it's just one sample data. But his case is little unique; it's the fact that he has low APM, played Terran throughout SC2. If he can surpass his Terran skill playing Protoss in a short amount of time, then it will feed to the general negativity that Protoss is the race that can most abuse low APM. If he doesn't succeed, then the general statement that Terran is most APM intensive race is not very true Then I say look at the openings most common by Protoss players these days. We're more used to seeing them be the aggressors across the board. It shouldn't really be surprising if SjoW is able to win games anywhere from the twelve to sixteen minute mark.
That has nothing to do with his point, even if it isn't lategame the amount of apm still decides if you can execute strategy X.
Not that i would agree that his success(or the lack of it) proves anything, but your argument has nothing to do with the point people will try to make.
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On December 03 2013 07:42 Tiaraju9 wrote:
He's doing a big disservice to the community with this. Each game he talks about how he shouldn't be winning and how protoss is imba and stupid and such.
Its just a bad "service" that will increase the protoss hate in our community. Its a very unprofessional way to deal with the game too.
Do you actually mean the opposite ? Not a lot of pro players would dare making a race's switch, and he's doing so that he can prove either this race is clearly OP, or something is wrong or whatever you can name it. If not, then maybe we'll think twice before arguing about how unfair protoss' play is compared to the others races (Yes i'm biased, I too think this protoss race really has it easy).
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On December 03 2013 10:42 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 10:26 StarStruck wrote:On December 03 2013 10:20 BakedButters wrote:On December 03 2013 10:03 StarStruck wrote:On December 03 2013 09:18 BakedButters wrote:
No if he doesn't reach his goal, then it shows that all races can be played a high level with lowish APM, and that Toss is not simply the race that can reach the highest play with the lowest amount of APM He's just one player guys. I wouldn't read much into it at all. Of course it's just one sample data. But his case is little unique; it's the fact that he has low APM, played Terran throughout SC2. If he can surpass his Terran skill playing Protoss in a short amount of time, then it will feed to the general negativity that Protoss is the race that can most abuse low APM. If he doesn't succeed, then the general statement that Terran is most APM intensive race is not very true Then I say look at the openings most common by Protoss players these days. We're more used to seeing them be the aggressors across the board. It shouldn't really be surprising if SjoW is able to win games anywhere from the twelve to sixteen minute mark. That has nothing to do with his point, even if it isn't lategame the amount of apm still decides if you can execute strategy X. Not that i would agree that his success(or the lack of it) proves anything, but your argument has nothing to do with the point people will try to make.
It has everything to do with it because it fits right into his playstyle. SjoW isn't the type of player who sits back to take it to late game. The fact that Protoss is designed to play to SjoW's specifications means he should find some success with it. You don't need a lot of APM to be a successful player, lol. This is even true for BW. For instance look at Testie's Protoss. Enough said.
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On December 03 2013 10:26 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 10:20 BakedButters wrote:On December 03 2013 10:03 StarStruck wrote:On December 03 2013 09:18 BakedButters wrote:
No if he doesn't reach his goal, then it shows that all races can be played a high level with lowish APM, and that Toss is not simply the race that can reach the highest play with the lowest amount of APM He's just one player guys. I wouldn't read much into it at all. Of course it's just one sample data. But his case is little unique; it's the fact that he has low APM, played Terran throughout SC2. If he can surpass his Terran skill playing Protoss in a short amount of time, then it will feed to the general negativity that Protoss is the race that can most abuse low APM. If he doesn't succeed, then the general statement that Terran is most APM intensive race is not very true Then I say look at the openings most common by Protoss players these days. We're more used to seeing them be the aggressors across the board. It shouldn't really be surprising if SjoW is able to win games anywhere from the twelve to sixteen minute mark.
Whether Toss is a more aggressive race, all-in race, or whatever, there is still that notion of Toss as a low APM race, meaning it's a mechanically more forgiving race.
I'm not arguing that at the highest level, protoss is imba, because then at high APMs, Terran can unlock their race "potential" and overcome/abuse the protoss weaknesses, which are due to their design mechanics.
I'm not arguing a person can't be successful with low APM. Look at Goody, Sjow, Elfi.
But if Goody were to switch to P, will he be more successful? If Elfi switched to T, will he be less successful?
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On December 03 2013 08:15 Tiaraju9 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 07:46 Nebuchad wrote:On December 03 2013 07:42 Tiaraju9 wrote:
He's doing a big disservice to the community with this. Each game he talks about how he shouldn't be winning and how protoss is imba and stupid and such.
Its just a bad "service" that will increase the protoss hate in our community. Its a very unprofessional way to deal with the game too.
He doesn't have that kind of power. The people who think protoss is shit will keep on thinking it, and the people who don't will keep on just the same. SjoW has been vocal about protoss for a long time. The way he comments after every game looks a bit forced to me, like he's trying to entertain us the IdrA way. I don't mind it. A lot of popular streamers talk shit about protoss. Idra, Destiny, Avilo... I blame this people for the protoss hate that have been around lately.
not at all, I just find it far more frustrating to lose vs protoss than terran or zerg. Everything about the race is really frustrating and annoying. So many annoying cheeses and gimmicks. The protoss hate probably wont ever go away, unfortunately.
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On December 03 2013 11:55 BakedButters wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 10:26 StarStruck wrote:On December 03 2013 10:20 BakedButters wrote:On December 03 2013 10:03 StarStruck wrote:On December 03 2013 09:18 BakedButters wrote:
No if he doesn't reach his goal, then it shows that all races can be played a high level with lowish APM, and that Toss is not simply the race that can reach the highest play with the lowest amount of APM He's just one player guys. I wouldn't read much into it at all. Of course it's just one sample data. But his case is little unique; it's the fact that he has low APM, played Terran throughout SC2. If he can surpass his Terran skill playing Protoss in a short amount of time, then it will feed to the general negativity that Protoss is the race that can most abuse low APM. If he doesn't succeed, then the general statement that Terran is most APM intensive race is not very true Then I say look at the openings most common by Protoss players these days. We're more used to seeing them be the aggressors across the board. It shouldn't really be surprising if SjoW is able to win games anywhere from the twelve to sixteen minute mark. Whether Toss is a more aggressive race, all-in race, or whatever, there is still that notion of Toss as a low APM race, meaning it's a mechanically more forgiving race. I'm not arguing that at the highest level, protoss is imba, because then at high APMs, Terran can unlock their race "potential" and overcome/abuse the protoss weaknesses, which are due to their design mechanics. I'm not arguing a person can't be successful with low APM. Look at Goody, Sjow, Elfi. But if Goody were to switch to P, will he be more successful? If Elfi switched to T, will he be less successful?
In this case, the Testie example is completely acceptable because he didn't just play Protoss. The Canadian was known as a race picker. He could play Zerg, Terran and Protoss at a highly respectable level. Once again, it's merely an example and APM can only take you so far. We've argued it so many times on this website that it's gone beyond tedious.
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What rank did he end up at today? Last I saw he was rank 24 master or something.
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On December 03 2013 09:03 ConCentrate405 wrote:
...or makes a fame as cheeser like stardust
Lol, that is pretty debatable.
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EPT
