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On December 10 2013 01:31 keglu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 07:44 Ben... wrote:On December 09 2013 05:58 Zealously wrote:On December 09 2013 05:52 keglu wrote:On December 09 2013 05:28 Ben... wrote:On December 09 2013 02:32 keglu wrote:On December 09 2013 01:49 Ben... wrote:On December 06 2013 10:14 tomatriedes wrote:On December 04 2013 01:34 keglu wrote:On December 03 2013 21:29 Green_25 wrote:
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The game is balanced at the highest levels noones denying that.
PvT is a 55% last month. This is basically worse than in 1/1/1 domination period. In Korea TvP was 61% during 1-1-1 domination. Near the end of the 1/1/1 era it was 65% in Korea. This GSL only SangHo made it past RO32. Every other Protoss was either killed by 1/1/1 or by mass ling/infestor. It was a rough time to be Protoss. So many of the maps were super good for 1/1/1. Dual Sight and Xel'Naga Fortress were still in tournaments ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bviP1.png) Which month do you consider "end of 1/1/1" era? End of October, start of November, once the immortal buff had fully kicked in and Xel'Naga Fortress had been removed from the GSL pool. Note the massive evening out of winrates for November and December in TvP winrates: + Show Spoiler +There were 5 Protoss in the RO16 instead of 1 in GSL November. I checked October 2011 and amount of TvP - GSL Code S - 0 - GSL Code A -0 - GSTL:1 - U&D :6 - code B :27 So i want just to point out that we are talking about 35-40 games sample size here. To be fair, there being so few TvPs played could be an indication of imbalance in itself. Not that it necessarily was in this case, but if there are no Protoss players in Code S, then objectively Protoss is in a bad spot and no TvPs can be played in the first place, for example. You hit the nail on the head. Only SangHo made it through, and he played only PvZ in RO16, losing to Coca. He beat Polt once in group stages, which were still considered Up and Down. The other 3 Protoss in October (totalling 4 in the RO32) all lost their matches. Hence no PvTs in Code S. So yeah, the sample size for TvP was tiny, but that in itself is indicative of how bad Protoss was doing. Funny enough, there were quite a few Protoss in Code A, but they all had PvZs, including the infamous MC vs. Monster matchup where Monster literally just went mass infestor and killed MC with Infested Terrans in an all-in on Dual Sight. That knocked him out of the GSL. You used 65% in October as proof of peak 1-1-1 domination when immortal buff was in august and in adjacent to October months winrates were 54% and 45%. So this 65% is just reason of small sample size.and not peak of 1-1-1 domination. Immortal buff was end of September:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Patch_1.4.0
Hence why I said the end of the 1/1/1 era was the end of October/start of November, because that was the time when the effects of that era started wearing off and we started seeing Protoss in Code S again (We had 5 in November Code S rather than just SangHo). For October, there were far fewer Protoss as a result of the previous seasons having most of them removed.
And as I explained, the horrible sample size was a result of a combination of Protoss having trouble in PvZ against infestor based compositions (this was before the Neural nerf) and the 1/1/1, which resulted in nearly no Protoss being in Code S. The September 20th patch fixed both of those issues and allowed Protoss back into the game. They also nerfed fungal damage too so it wasn't so good against armoured, which obviously would affect PvZ significantly. Most importantly, the map switch in November gave Protoss relief from some of the maps that were favoured heavily against them like Xel'Naga Fortress.
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Being coached by Naniwa on stream now (in Swedish)
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Weird that Sjow can be Top100 on NA according to region rank on sc2ranks, yet still not in GM. Either sc2ranks or the GM league is not working as it is supposed to... but maybe it just needs a little bit more time.
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On December 10 2013 20:01 JustPassingBy wrote:
Weird that Sjow can be Top100 on NA according to region rank on sc2ranks, yet still not in GM. Either sc2ranks or the GM league is not working as it is supposed to... but maybe it just needs a little bit more time.
Sure you are not looking at only Master?
He's currently ranked 73 in NA Masters, via http://nios.kr/sc2/us/1v1/hots/master/ .
Never liked SC2ranks.
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Huh? The ranks are divided up in leagues? Interesting, didn't knew that. Definitely good to know, but am I the only one who thinks that it is counterintuitive?
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On December 10 2013 22:43 JustPassingBy wrote:
Huh? The ranks are divided up in leagues? Interesting, didn't knew that. Definitely good to know, but am I the only one who thinks that it is counterintuitive?
Yes lol How is cross-league ranking intuitive?
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On December 10 2013 20:01 JustPassingBy wrote:
Weird that Sjow can be Top100 on NA according to region rank on sc2ranks, yet still not in GM. Either sc2ranks or the GM league is not working as it is supposed to... but maybe it just needs a little bit more time.
He's top 100 of the masters. He need to be #1 to get promoted to GM (if there is an open spot ofc)
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On December 10 2013 22:53 Lochland wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 20:01 JustPassingBy wrote:
Weird that Sjow can be Top100 on NA according to region rank on sc2ranks, yet still not in GM. Either sc2ranks or the GM league is not working as it is supposed to... but maybe it just needs a little bit more time. He's top 100 of the masters. He need to be #1 to get promoted to GM (if there is an open spot ofc)
That's not how it works, it doesn't run on points, but on hidden MMR
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On December 10 2013 23:26 ffadicted wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:53 Lochland wrote:On December 10 2013 20:01 JustPassingBy wrote:
Weird that Sjow can be Top100 on NA according to region rank on sc2ranks, yet still not in GM. Either sc2ranks or the GM league is not working as it is supposed to... but maybe it just needs a little bit more time. He's top 100 of the masters. He need to be #1 to get promoted to GM (if there is an open spot ofc) That's not how it works, it doesn't run on points, but on hidden MMR
Though at that level of ladder, points are pretty well indicative of MMR if they've spent all of their bonus pool.
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On December 10 2013 23:48 Thallis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 23:26 ffadicted wrote:On December 10 2013 22:53 Lochland wrote:On December 10 2013 20:01 JustPassingBy wrote:
Weird that Sjow can be Top100 on NA according to region rank on sc2ranks, yet still not in GM. Either sc2ranks or the GM league is not working as it is supposed to... but maybe it just needs a little bit more time. He's top 100 of the masters. He need to be #1 to get promoted to GM (if there is an open spot ofc) That's not how it works, it doesn't run on points, but on hidden MMR Though at that level of ladder, points are pretty well indicative of MMR if they've spent all of their bonus pool.
A pro who's winning enough to get to GM MMR will be top 1 Masters eventually.
GM is only 200 people so he has to actually pass someone.
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On December 10 2013 23:50 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 23:48 Thallis wrote:On December 10 2013 23:26 ffadicted wrote:On December 10 2013 22:53 Lochland wrote:On December 10 2013 20:01 JustPassingBy wrote:
Weird that Sjow can be Top100 on NA according to region rank on sc2ranks, yet still not in GM. Either sc2ranks or the GM league is not working as it is supposed to... but maybe it just needs a little bit more time. He's top 100 of the masters. He need to be #1 to get promoted to GM (if there is an open spot ofc) That's not how it works, it doesn't run on points, but on hidden MMR Though at that level of ladder, points are pretty well indicative of MMR if they've spent all of their bonus pool. A pro who's winning enough to get to GM MMR will be top 1 Masters eventually. GM is only 200 people so he has to actually pass someone.
Nop, for exemple in EU, Dayshi is like top200 master, but if he plays some games he will up GM because he has a high MMR, even if he has not that much point.
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On December 10 2013 23:55 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 23:50 DinoMight wrote:On December 10 2013 23:48 Thallis wrote:On December 10 2013 23:26 ffadicted wrote:On December 10 2013 22:53 Lochland wrote:On December 10 2013 20:01 JustPassingBy wrote:
Weird that Sjow can be Top100 on NA according to region rank on sc2ranks, yet still not in GM. Either sc2ranks or the GM league is not working as it is supposed to... but maybe it just needs a little bit more time. He's top 100 of the masters. He need to be #1 to get promoted to GM (if there is an open spot ofc) That's not how it works, it doesn't run on points, but on hidden MMR Though at that level of ladder, points are pretty well indicative of MMR if they've spent all of their bonus pool. A pro who's winning enough to get to GM MMR will be top 1 Masters eventually. GM is only 200 people so he has to actually pass someone. Nop, for exemple in EU, Dayshi is like top200 master, but if he plays some games he will up GM because he has a high MMR, even if he has not that much point.
Bonus pool + amount of point is probably the best indicator you can get to estimate your MMR.
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On December 10 2013 23:26 ffadicted wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:53 Lochland wrote:On December 10 2013 20:01 JustPassingBy wrote:
Weird that Sjow can be Top100 on NA according to region rank on sc2ranks, yet still not in GM. Either sc2ranks or the GM league is not working as it is supposed to... but maybe it just needs a little bit more time. He's top 100 of the masters. He need to be #1 to get promoted to GM (if there is an open spot ofc) That's not how it works, it doesn't run on points, but on hidden MMR
The guy with the highest point, assuming no bonus pool, have the highest MMR
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On December 10 2013 23:55 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 23:50 DinoMight wrote:On December 10 2013 23:48 Thallis wrote:On December 10 2013 23:26 ffadicted wrote:On December 10 2013 22:53 Lochland wrote:On December 10 2013 20:01 JustPassingBy wrote:
Weird that Sjow can be Top100 on NA according to region rank on sc2ranks, yet still not in GM. Either sc2ranks or the GM league is not working as it is supposed to... but maybe it just needs a little bit more time. He's top 100 of the masters. He need to be #1 to get promoted to GM (if there is an open spot ofc) That's not how it works, it doesn't run on points, but on hidden MMR Though at that level of ladder, points are pretty well indicative of MMR if they've spent all of their bonus pool. A pro who's winning enough to get to GM MMR will be top 1 Masters eventually. GM is only 200 people so he has to actually pass someone. Nop, for exemple in EU, Dayshi is like top200 master, but if he plays some games he will up GM because he has a high MMR, even if he has not that much point.
That's because Dayshy was GM before.
If you never been in gm you need to be top #1-3 master of your region and wait for an open spot.
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On December 11 2013 00:30 Lochland wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 23:26 ffadicted wrote:On December 10 2013 22:53 Lochland wrote:On December 10 2013 20:01 JustPassingBy wrote:
Weird that Sjow can be Top100 on NA according to region rank on sc2ranks, yet still not in GM. Either sc2ranks or the GM league is not working as it is supposed to... but maybe it just needs a little bit more time. He's top 100 of the masters. He need to be #1 to get promoted to GM (if there is an open spot ofc) That's not how it works, it doesn't run on points, but on hidden MMR The guy with the highest point, assuming no bonus pool, have the highest MMR
Wrong. As long as the bonus pool is around, the points will never reflect MMR. Of course the more a player plays outside of his bonus pool, the more his points will converge to his MMR (if that makes sense). A counterexample to your statement would be a player who barely plays enough to burn down his bonus pool and always lose. He will lose in MMR, but his points stay roughly untouched. But in high masters and above, players tend to play enough games that the points can give you a rough estimate of his MMR.
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He can play in SEA and get top 20 GM without difficulty.
SEA has only 16 GM for now :p
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He plays so slow, can he change his name to sjowbro? :D
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On December 10 2013 20:17 Tobblish wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 20:01 JustPassingBy wrote:
Weird that Sjow can be Top100 on NA according to region rank on sc2ranks, yet still not in GM. Either sc2ranks or the GM league is not working as it is supposed to... but maybe it just needs a little bit more time. Sure you are not looking at only Master? He's currently ranked 73 in NA Masters, via http://nios.kr/sc2/us/1v1/hots/master/ . Never liked SC2ranks.
That's cute, right now he's 74th, and the 73rd is PatCHZERG
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On December 11 2013 00:31 Lochland wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 23:55 Faust852 wrote:On December 10 2013 23:50 DinoMight wrote:On December 10 2013 23:48 Thallis wrote:On December 10 2013 23:26 ffadicted wrote:On December 10 2013 22:53 Lochland wrote:On December 10 2013 20:01 JustPassingBy wrote:
Weird that Sjow can be Top100 on NA according to region rank on sc2ranks, yet still not in GM. Either sc2ranks or the GM league is not working as it is supposed to... but maybe it just needs a little bit more time. He's top 100 of the masters. He need to be #1 to get promoted to GM (if there is an open spot ofc) That's not how it works, it doesn't run on points, but on hidden MMR Though at that level of ladder, points are pretty well indicative of MMR if they've spent all of their bonus pool. A pro who's winning enough to get to GM MMR will be top 1 Masters eventually. GM is only 200 people so he has to actually pass someone. Nop, for exemple in EU, Dayshi is like top200 master, but if he plays some games he will up GM because he has a high MMR, even if he has not that much point. That's because Dayshy was GM before. If you never been in gm you need to be top #1-3 master of your region and wait for an open spot.
No, the players in GM aren't necessarily the top 200 players based on MMR. Some of them lose/decay whatever their hidden MMR is, and some are overtaken by players outside of said ladder (however, at the time of promotion they were obviously ranked in the top 200). I was ranked probably around 10th and promoted to GM before, for example. That simply means that I was top 200 in MMR at the time of promotion despite not being top 3 or whatever.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XII8Mh.png)
