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Asturas
Finland587 Posts
And if I survive Oracle attack (meaning I will loose only 5-10 SCVs) 2 base all in will come and kill me anyway. I don't play Zerg, to some extend it seems that in ZvP there are similar problems. Summing up: Dear Mr. David Kim, what was wrong with Protoss and with Oracle in particular that You felt the need of buffing it? TvP lategame is still a tragicomedy and now early game in TvP is even more about Terran just waiting to see what is coming to kill him. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 12 2013 19:06 Insoleet wrote: That's not true at all Zerg tried to mix in Roaches, but they are so cost-ineffective vs bio-mine (in supply and cost), they stopped and they only play muta now. Because you can be really cost effective with good muta micro and multitask, whereas you cant with roaches. Exactly. Roaches are quite fast, speed Roaches are faster than speed Banelings, so the mobility part isn't true. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On November 12 2013 18:34 gobbledydook wrote: 1) know your oracle timings. Have marines ready in the main mineral line when oracles should arrive. If nothing comes in a minute or so it's not oracles. If something does come, defend with the marines and build turret. What if the opponent is planning any type of bust (with void rays or immortals or straight up gateway units plus msc)? Or a blink stalker all-in? Can't they hit around the same time an oracle would hit (especially on low levels, where the timings are all a bit wonky) and wouldn't I die instantly if my whole army isn't at my natural trying hold the bunkers? edit: anyways my current plan with oracles is just sacking my main and transferring all my scv to my natural, eventually reclaiming my main as I gain more units, that seems to work just fine (on my level, that is). ^.^ | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On November 12 2013 18:15 c0olL wrote: banshees in mid game vs P? are you serious? Vikings may help, but 2 or 3 imbaclouds can finish the game for T. its not worth the risk. Banshees that get free upgrades, why not? Thor/banshee was a thing in WOL even when they were cloak was expensive and they got no upgrades. Basically you can open cloakshee since its not too expensive now, get a bit of mapcontrol and use them to snipe a probe or two and just keep building them in case protoss is going immortal-heavy. Use cloak to keep their energy low in case of feedback and you have a nice source of DPS for your main army that ignores terrain and positioning and isn't hampered by immortal shields. Only thing they have to kill your banshees in return are stalkers which are very vulnerable to your siege tanks. It's one of the few applications for the combined upgrades I can think of. | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
So many people will flat out die to it + 2038 random follow up allins that it will not be bearable anymore and so Blizzard will be forced to do something for Terran early game. And since they have totally no idea what is going on, there is solid chance that they make some drastic change that will solve most TvP early game issues. Blizzard gogo! | ||
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GreenMash
Norway1746 Posts
On November 12 2013 19:19 Zealously wrote: It doesn't seem like everyone understands the significance of the two terran buffs I don't think it will matter at all in TvP which is the matchup most terrans feel is unfair. The Widow mine nerf seem too big when compared to the buffs. I do think the buffs will make mech much better TvZ though. The WM nerf may make bio useless (difficult to tell atm) | ||
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c0olL
129 Posts
EDIT: i really hope that you are right about the banshee and Mech will be an option vs P, we will need to wait and see. | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
On November 12 2013 19:19 Zealously wrote: It doesn't seem like everyone understands the significance of the two terran buffs Doesnt affect TvP at all and in TvZ you will probably have armor upgraded on your vikings already if you need to react to a broodlord switch. Thats nice but TvZ and TvP will still be played the same way. Thats what I think anyways. Maybe you can telll everyone how significant the buffs are? | ||
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On November 12 2013 19:25 GreenMash wrote: I don't think it will matter at all in TvP which is the matchup most terrans feel is unfair. The Widow mine nerf seem too big when compared to the buffs. I do think the buffs will make mech much better TvZ though. The WM nerf may make bio useless (difficult to tell atm) Well, it certainly could matter against templar openings. Terrans nowadays don't necessarily mix in hellbats (except ForGG who does it successfully) but with this buff you could add hellbats against a chargelot/archon/templar army, upgrade their attack and be better off against the eventual colossus transition because vikings have that upgrade. That again could speed up the process for terran to get to a Ghost/viking army that can combat colossus/templar. Same applies to vikings -> hellbats. I'm not saying it's definitely going to happen like that but I could see it being mixed in. And definitely more tank based openings/midgames against protoss like terrans did in WoL sometimes (Supernova for example loved them). | ||
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growlizing
Norway122 Posts
On November 12 2013 08:38 CakeSauc3 wrote: ...since they're trying SO hard to make mech viable. Faster = better, that's what Blizzard is telling us with HotS balancing :p Yet mech is the most boring thing to watch. No fucking way I'm playing another 1,5h swarm host sporecrawler game on akilon or 3h game on alterzim. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On November 12 2013 18:31 MockHamill wrote: I really feel sorry for Protoss now that tanks got 2.8 attack speed. I do not think that mech can be defeated any more but maybe some Code S player can figure out a solution. This seems right. So brave from Blizz to buff the Tank so much. At least they didn't go through with the mammoth 2.7 and scaled it back to a still enormous 2.8. | ||
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Rider517
70 Posts
oracle buff will only make it more cheesy... fixing numbers won't fix the game... | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
On November 12 2013 19:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Well, it certainly could matter against templar openings. Terrans nowadays don't necessarily mix in hellbats (except ForGG who does it successfully) but with this buff you could add hellbats against a chargelot/archon/templar army, upgrade their attack and be better off against the eventual colossus transition because vikings have that upgrade. That again could speed up the process for terran to get to a Ghost/viking army that can combat colossus/templar. Same applies to vikings -> hellbats. I'm not saying it's definitely going to happen like that but I could see it being mixed in. And definitely more tank based openings/midgames against protoss like terrans did in WoL sometimes (Supernova for example loved them). 1 - 0 hellbats vs 2 -2 P army arent very good. And investing in blueflame when you want to reactor hellbats isnt practical at all either. Add to that the fact that hellbats are slow and cant be microed out of storm. I dont think we will see this at all. Comes down to the usual problems of terran production. Cant just switch however you want, not even with these upgrade changes. | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On November 12 2013 19:30 Sapphire.lux wrote: This seems right. So brave from Blizz to buff the Tank so much. At least they didn't go through with the mammoth 2.7 and scaled it back to a still enormous 2.8. I played a game where one of my Immortals actually died to Tanks, 2.8 really seems broken.. What am I supposed to do now when my units actually dies when I run into 20 sieged Tanks? Blizzard, seriously, get your shit together.. | ||
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Hextor
16 Posts
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Tsubbi
Germany7967 Posts
On November 12 2013 17:06 Snugles wrote: Is this me or does this entire patch feel horribly underwhelming. They have waited for a while for a major game changing patch (and the game needs it) and THIS is it? Maybe I've just been spoilt by 6.79 in dota but I would like to see Blizzard do things a bit more riskily and quickly. 100% agreed, underwhelming is an understatement to say the least, hopefully more will happen until the next wcs season but considering they are likey to start in january i dont have high hopes | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
Lets at least wait a month or 2 before we complain about a change being too small. | ||
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MasterDrone
France50 Posts
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drkcid
Spain196 Posts
On November 12 2013 19:35 Everlong wrote: I played a game where one of my Immortals actually died to Tanks, 2.8 really seems broken.. What am I supposed to do now when my units actually dies when I run into 20 sieged Tanks? Blizzard, seriously, get your shit together.. The P answer: Void rays, mass void rays counters everything, except Ravens HsM but they will be nerfed soon  | ||
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