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On October 01 2013 06:36 BuzzKillington wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 06:22 Kasaraki wrote:
By the way, I hope you guys aren't going to completely buy this oov bravado, the guy has not even been coaching for 2 weeks yet, and part of this time was chuseok. The guy loves to talk big, and he's making things sound very black and white. :p Black and white talk seems wrong in completely logical thinking. But when you want to make a difference in this world, 100% logical thinking and safe talking is not gonna get you anywhere. It usually shows that you actually have no strong opinions and unsure about lots of things.
So are you saying people should be thinking less logically and more dangerously (whatever that even means) for sake of it? You might be onto a good point but man the way you worded your point is just... bad 
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On October 01 2013 06:30 sc2superfan101 wrote:
Good interview, but it is funny how quickly the community changes their opinions.
MC/Flash/Mvp/???? calls for a change because the game is imbalanced:
"OH MY GOD! THEY SAID IT'S IMBALANCED! CHANGE IT NOW!"
iloveoov says they worry about balance too much and shouldn't change things so quickly:
"I've been saying it for years, they shouldn't fiddle around with it so much. Just let the imbalance run it's course."
Next week some pro will say the game is imbalanced and needs to be patched and these same posters will be up in arms because Blizzard hasn't fixed it yet...
That's why Blizzard should not listen to fans crowd too much about game design. Crowd opinions are usually stupider than those from smart people, that should be obvious.
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Apparently iloveoov was a strategic genius in BW. Right? And he wants the game left alone? Awesome. Great.
Now, if only "the community" would agree...
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I can't take this Oov interview too seriously. He's very vague when he refers to David Kim over-balancing the game. He doesn't mention any specific patches, he just makes the blanket observation that David Kim balances too much, which the interviewer unfortunately did not press at all.
I have no idea what Oov is referring to. Does he mean recent balance patches? Does he mean past balance patches? Does he mean all balance patches? Is there a specific one? Because Blizzard actually announced somewhat recently after the queen patch in WoL that they were going to stop intervening in the metagame so quickly before allowing the players sufficient time to flesh it out. And they've done exactly that. If you compare the balanace patches in the first six months of WoL vs the first six months of HotS, it's night and day. They actually allowed broodlord infestor to dominate the metagame for so damn long rather than nerf it into the ground to give SOME player(s) the chance at solving it.
It's really sad how eager everyone is to hop on the david kim/blizzard shitstorm train with any slight provocation or reason. There isn't much to read into this interview with so few details other than an ambiguous "DK balances too much," because the most literal interpretation based on recent events would have to mean that what oov wants are NO balance patches whatsoever.
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Well for starters Iloveoov as a player changed the way everyone played the game, he was Terran's "Savior" and second as a coach he devised revolutionary tactics and made Fantasy a Terran icon.
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I kind of have to agree with oov here, I think people/blizzard are so obsessed with patching that the metagame forcefully shifts into weird directions and the game doesn't evolve as naturally as it could. That makes certain strategies invalid and a lot of effort put into tweaking and perfecting a certain style goes to waste.
I have high hopes for SKT this season with iloveoov as the new coach! Gogo SKT!
EDIT: Proleague is definitely a lot of fun and you can see many nice strategies and metagaming there. You can definitely see the evolution of certain styles there, like pretty nowhere else.
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On October 01 2013 06:39 Gaizokubanou wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 06:36 BuzzKillington wrote:On October 01 2013 06:22 Kasaraki wrote:
By the way, I hope you guys aren't going to completely buy this oov bravado, the guy has not even been coaching for 2 weeks yet, and part of this time was chuseok. The guy loves to talk big, and he's making things sound very black and white. :p Black and white talk seems wrong in completely logical thinking. But when you want to make a difference in this world, 100% logical thinking and safe talking is not gonna get you anywhere. It usually shows that you actually have no strong opinions and unsure about lots of things. So are you saying people should be thinking less logically and more dangerously (whatever that even means) for sake of it? You might be onto a good point but man the way you worded your point is just... bad
100% logical thinking and complete factual talk usually means everything has two sides(because everything in this world indeed has two sides), it shows that speaker has no strong opinion, which results into no accomplishments.To make a difference, people need to choose a side, and be strong with it.
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On October 01 2013 06:48 BuzzKillington wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 06:39 Gaizokubanou wrote:On October 01 2013 06:36 BuzzKillington wrote:On October 01 2013 06:22 Kasaraki wrote:
By the way, I hope you guys aren't going to completely buy this oov bravado, the guy has not even been coaching for 2 weeks yet, and part of this time was chuseok. The guy loves to talk big, and he's making things sound very black and white. :p Black and white talk seems wrong in completely logical thinking. But when you want to make a difference in this world, 100% logical thinking and safe talking is not gonna get you anywhere. It usually shows that you actually have no strong opinions and unsure about lots of things. So are you saying people should be thinking less logically and more dangerously (whatever that even means) for sake of it? You might be onto a good point but man the way you worded your point is just... bad 100% logical thinking and complete factual talk usually means everything has two sides(because everything in this world indeed has two sides), it shows that speaker has no strong opinion, which results into no accomplishments.To make a difference, people need to choose a side, and be strong with it.
Fortune favors the brave.
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I disagree with his balance perspective. First of all, SC2 is a completely different game from SCBW with very different pathing, race designs, and overall game mechanics. Second, SC is no longer the dominant game in the eSports world and has a much more global audience. In other words, it has become an industry. If Blizzard is extremely slow with its balance changes, then that would do more harm than good when people realize how stable the game has become. Finally, even if the player figures out a new innovation strategy (if you look at GSL, we see a LOT of new builds and strategies), those tactics do eventually get countered. That's just the dynamic of SC2.
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On October 01 2013 06:45 rd wrote:
I can't take this Oov interview too seriously. He's very vague when he refers to David Kim over-balancing the game. He doesn't mention any specific patches, he just makes the blanket observation that David Kim balances too much, which the interviewer unfortunately did not press at all.
I have no idea what Oov is referring to. Does he mean recent balance patches? Does he mean past balance patches? Does he mean all balance patches? Is there a specific one? Because Blizzard actually announced somewhat recently after the queen patch in WoL that they were going to stop intervening in the metagame so quickly before allowing the players sufficient time to flesh it out. And they've done exactly that. If you compare the balanace patches in the first six months of WoL vs the first six months of HotS, it's night and day. They actually allowed broodlord infestor to dominate the metagame for so damn long rather than nerf it into the ground to give SOME player(s) the chance at solving it.
It's really sad how eager everyone is to hop on the david kim/blizzard shitstorm train with any slight provocation or reason. There isn't much to read into this interview with so few details other than a vague "DK balances too much," because the most literal interpretation based on recent events would have to mean that what oov wants are NO balance patches whatsoever.
He could be being intentionally provocative. If so, this is fine, especially if it leads to positive outcomes.
You are right, though. I think Blizzard learned a lot from the early days of WOL and have had a far better approach to HOTS. But, this is one reason why I look a little askance at the recent changes to add "variety" and "diversity" to the game.
Whicheever way you look at it, it is shifting the rules of the game. Yet again. >_<
I do like how he comments on the conservatism of gamers, though. Although, I think the neverending tournament scene has something to do with that as well. Players need time away from playing and serious practice for play practice. This is when new strategies are thought up, or when serious time can be put into that half formed build in your head.
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On October 01 2013 06:45 rd wrote:
I can't take this Oov interview too seriously. He's very vague when he refers very to David Kim over-balancing the game. He doesn't mention any specific patches, he just makes the blanket statement of an observation that David Kim balances too much, which the interviewer unfortunately did not press at all.
I have no idea what Oov is referring to. Does he mean recent balance patches? Does he mean past balance patches? Does he mean all balance patches? Is there a specific one? Because Blizzard actually announced somewhat recently after the queen patch in WoL that they were going to stop intervening in the metagame so quickly before allowing the players sufficient time to flesh it out. And they've done exactly that. If you compare the balanace patches in the first six weeks of WoL vs the first six weeks of HotS, it's night and day. They actually let broodlord infestor dominate the metagame for so damn long rather than nerf it into the ground to allow SOME player to take a crack at solving it.
It's really sad how eager everyone is to hop on the david kim/blizzard shitstorm train with any slight provocation or reason.
Are you SERIOUS?
They buffed queens, the buffed infestors. And then you use argument "and they stopped, be happy".
And then you put the blame on people, to figure out how to beat buffed queens and buffed infestors which in fact were the reason why the mass infestor style and multiple queen style which with conjuction enabled the BL-Inf style to emerge. Because of how good queen buff happened to be.
So after Blizz put all this mess (QUEEN BUFF) you say it was their good heart that made people figure out how to deal with that mess themselves.
Good thinking.
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Well the funny point is, that they stopped balancing at infestor+BL where the game was totally broken... would like to hear his oppinion on this...
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On October 01 2013 06:45 DinoToss wrote:
Well for starters Iloveoov as a player changed the way everyone played the game, he was Terran's "Savior" and second as a coach he devised revolutionary tactics and made Fantasy a Terran icon.
Boxer - Micro
Oov - Macro
Savior - Strategy
Nal_Ra/Bisu - Hope
Flash - Perfection
Each of them changed the scene at times when things seem stagnant/imba.
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On October 01 2013 06:59 forumtext wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 06:45 DinoToss wrote:
Well for starters Iloveoov as a player changed the way everyone played the game, he was Terran's "Savior" and second as a coach he devised revolutionary tactics and made Fantasy a Terran icon. Boxer - Micro Oov - Macro Savior - Strategy Nal_Ra/Bisu - Hope Flash - Perfection
Im saying he was Terran's equivalent of Zerg's Savior in importance.
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never ending beta test lol
but sc2 did not have the time that BW had .. so it works differently
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On October 01 2013 07:00 DinoToss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 06:59 forumtext wrote:On October 01 2013 06:45 DinoToss wrote:
Well for starters Iloveoov as a player changed the way everyone played the game, he was Terran's "Savior" and second as a coach he devised revolutionary tactics and made Fantasy a Terran icon. Boxer - Micro Oov - Macro Savior - Strategy Nal_Ra/Bisu - Hope Flash - Perfection Im saying he was Terran's equivalent of Zerg's Savior in importance.
Quoted you by accident. 
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On October 01 2013 06:48 BuzzKillington wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 06:39 Gaizokubanou wrote:On October 01 2013 06:36 BuzzKillington wrote:On October 01 2013 06:22 Kasaraki wrote:
By the way, I hope you guys aren't going to completely buy this oov bravado, the guy has not even been coaching for 2 weeks yet, and part of this time was chuseok. The guy loves to talk big, and he's making things sound very black and white. :p Black and white talk seems wrong in completely logical thinking. But when you want to make a difference in this world, 100% logical thinking and safe talking is not gonna get you anywhere. It usually shows that you actually have no strong opinions and unsure about lots of things. So are you saying people should be thinking less logically and more dangerously (whatever that even means) for sake of it? You might be onto a good point but man the way you worded your point is just... bad 100% logical thinking and complete factual talk usually means everything has two sides(because everything in this world indeed has two sides), it shows that speaker has no strong opinion, which results into no accomplishments.To make a difference, people need to choose a side, and be strong with it.
LOL, so noticing the gray areas or the black and white stripes make me a very illogical person. Okay, that means a lot of business decisions are illogical, even though negotiations is the corner stone of good business practices. Oh, that also means that the way the US Constitution is made was illogical. But you also mean that people like Rush Limbaugh, a very notorious US conservative, is logical because he has a black/white perspective.
People such as Steve Jobs can have a black and white perspective of things and be successful. But you will surprised how many people who have such linear thinking such as the political activists in the US are nothing more but annoying gnats. Therefore, black and white perspective doesn't make you an accomplished person.
Finally, having a strong opinion doesn't mean having a black and white personality. I think what you should be saying is that those who are successful are those who are committed to their goal. Having a black and white personality makes you very inflexible and less likely to accomplish something because your plan for success can be hindered by multiple obstacles.
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On October 01 2013 07:02 goody153 wrote:
never ending beta test lol
but sc2 did not have the time that BW had .. so it works differently
BW took about 8 years to materialize by introducing new concepts of Micro, Macro, Defensive timing, strategical management, multitasking to reach full potential. All concept have been previously explore before when SC2 came out. So there is absolutely no excuse.
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On October 01 2013 06:55 DinoToss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 06:45 rd wrote:
I can't take this Oov interview too seriously. He's very vague when he refers very to David Kim over-balancing the game. He doesn't mention any specific patches, he just makes the blanket statement of an observation that David Kim balances too much, which the interviewer unfortunately did not press at all.
Blizzard said they'd stop shaking up the metagame . If you compare the balanace patches in the first six weeks of WoL vs the first six weeks of HotS, it's night and day. They actually let broodlord infestor dominate the metagame for so damn long rather than nerf it into the ground to allow SOME player to take a crack at solving it.
It's really sad how eager everyone is to hop on the david kim/blizzard shitstorm train with any slight provocation or reason. Are you SERIOUS? They buffed queens, the buffed infestors. And then you use argument "and they stopped, be happy". And then you put the blame on people, to figure out how to beat buffed queens and buffed infestors which in fact were the reason why the mass infestor style and multiple queen style which with conjuction enabled the BL-Inf style to emerge. Because of how good queen buff happened to be. So after Blizz put all this mess (QUEEN BUFF) you say it was their good heart that made people figure out how to deal with that mess themselves. Good thinking.
You're literally disagree'ing with Oov right now. They said they'd stop patching so much, and they did what they said. I mean, you're reading into an interview calling for Blizzard to stop patching so much, yet they wouldn't nerf (or unbuff) a unit (queen) which clearly shouldn't have buffed in the first place in hindsight. Is that not the epitome of following the directive that Oov wants? Don't touch the metagame, even if it's broken! They never touched it! You can't have it both ways, and Blizzard took the correct stance. How can you criticize them for that? You're a monumental hypocrite.
And where in the fuck did I say blame the players? Blizzard, Oov, AND myself are not blaming players. They want the players to solve the problems, not balance patches. That's not blaming the players. That's giving them the opportunity to innovate and revolutionize. And Blizzard's resolve to stop patching, even despite having just released an imbalanced patch, were stringent. Because who the fuck would have known 6 months from then that no player would have solved it. You? Hindsight is 20/20 they say. Blizzard gave them the opportunity, thats what counts.
Holy fucking bias.
edit: I'm not sure if I should be more upset at Oov for those comments which I hope were unintentionally vague, or the community for eating them up like brainless zombies with no thought into their validity.
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On October 01 2013 06:59 forumtext wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 06:45 DinoToss wrote:
Well for starters Iloveoov as a player changed the way everyone played the game, he was Terran's "Savior" and second as a coach he devised revolutionary tactics and made Fantasy a Terran icon. Boxer - Micro Oov - Macro Savior - Strategy Nal_Ra/Bisu - Hope Flash - Perfection Each of them changed the scene at times when things seem stagnant/imba.
Couldn't agree more with that statement after following BW for many years.
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EPT
