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iloveoov's interview after returning to SKT - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
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StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-30 20:58:50
September 30 2013 20:48 GMT
#21
On October 01 2013 05:40 disciple wrote:
He is right about a lot of things but at the same time he dismisses the fact sc2 doesn't have 8 years of time for build innovations and map making. Blizzard went global with SC2 and foreigners just lose/move their interest whenever they see game commercials on the TV. There's just no time for SC2 to become scbw naturally.


It wouldn't become SC:BW naturally either way lmao. 8 years? Give me a break, we were stuck playing maps like Lost Temple for ages man (remember when everyone used to think that was the most balanced map! :V). We were playing that shit for several years before shit broke out and then you have maps that stuck around for several years as well like Luna, so give me a break. The patches for vanilla SC were short and sweet. They got a lot of things right in a fast amount of time and people losing interest in games is not new. It's been like that since my early NES/Super NES games where the really good ones were billed $120 a pop and people say games are so expensive these days, HA!
RifleCow
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada637 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-30 20:51:41
September 30 2013 20:49 GMT
#22
I am not envious of David Kim/Dustin Browder's position. You have an entire pro-scene to support, people are asking for everything in the spectrum of no changes all the way to massive game changes. Really a screwed if you do screwed if you don't position. It's no wonder that they do whatever they feel is good for the game and don't really listen to progamers or the community.

In my opinion, it isn't the changes to blame. LoL changes every month and it is still huge. If anything it was just the way they handled the BW to SC2 transition that caused the lowered interest.
hohoho
Sabu113
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States11111 Posts
September 30 2013 20:50 GMT
#23
Unsurprising that a Terran player/coach would have that opinion. Gom TvT and the 1/1/1 turned my enthusiasm to bitterness. Keeping the high health scvs would hae embittered me even faster.

I really doubt just leaving the game alone would result in any more popularity. More than likely everyone would switch to warlock and just stay on warlock til the game died (or Orc rather?).
Biomine is a drunken chick who is on industrial strength amphetamines and would just grab your dick and jerk it as hard and violently as she could while screaming 'OMG FUCK ME', because she saw it in a Sasha Grey video ...-Wombat_Ni
Pirfiktshon
Profile Joined June 2013
United States1072 Posts
September 30 2013 20:50 GMT
#24
Honestly I would love to see some counter post from DK and the blizzard team about oovs post and Boxer's email.... LOL the fact that he didn't answer him is astonishing to me LOL
AlternativeEgo
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden17309 Posts
September 30 2013 20:51 GMT
#25
"Shots fired" does not suffice. That's some goddamn heavy artillery stuff right there. Is DK located in a bunker?
Mark Munoz looks like Gretorp
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
September 30 2013 20:52 GMT
#26
On October 01 2013 05:49 RifleCow wrote:
I am not envious of David Kim/Dustin Browder's position. You have an entire pro-scene to support, people are asking for everything in the spectrum of no changes all the way to massive game changes. Really a screwed if you do screwed if you don't position. It's no wonder that they do whatever they feel is good for the game and don't really listen to progamers or the community.

In my opinion, it isn't the changes. LoL changes every month and it is still huge.


People need to stop comparing changes/patches from MOBA games to RTS. It's nothing alike. Heck, we have Blizzard on record stating they wanted to show more restraint and let the players figure shit out for themselves, ha.
PhoenixDark
Profile Joined March 2011
United States286 Posts
September 30 2013 20:53 GMT
#27
I'd be really interested to hear Kim's response to this.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=435469
ssxsilver
Profile Joined June 2007
United States4409 Posts
September 30 2013 20:53 GMT
#28
On October 01 2013 05:47 Musicus wrote:
iloveoov seems like a boss. But what is David Kim supposed to do. There are always people complaining, either about balance or about too many patches. It doesn't really matter now anyways. Until LotV is released sc2 is in fact a never ending beta test, sso let's wait for 2 years after it has been released. Then the balance patches will stop and the real meta starts.

I agree. DK is in a lose-lose situation.

Just look back at the end of WOL and months w/o a balance patch. The end result was leading to people retire and a drop in viewership, not innovation. People are always going to compare with the development of BW, but times are just different. Unfortunately, it's an era of immediacy.
XiaoJoyce-
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
China2908 Posts
September 30 2013 20:53 GMT
#29
Hey, I said similar things b4 on MC's thoughts on the current state on SC2

+ Show Spoiler +
On September 04 2013 01:00 XiaoJoyce- wrote:
I think, Blizzard is trying too hard?

Trying to make the most competitive game, using advanced statistic, carefully designed units, create specific for specific roles.
Putting balance in top priority as design, viability comes 2nd.

Then you get SC2 design. Things like, Ghost snipe change only so it is only strong to snipe spellcaster, all those hard counter things.

In BW, let my imagination run, I can imagine the way they come up terran army design, mech for example.
Cheap and effective scout unit ->Vulture coupled Spider mine to make unit more interesting and stretegic?

Then comes the core unit ->Siege tank, High damage &Range, with drawback such as no air attack and require siege + friendly fire, slow rate of fire and minimum range

Then comes the ultimate mech army, the robot Goliath . Require Armory, with good anti air to compliment siege tank? As ultimate unit of terran mech, it has ground twin cannon doing respectable dmg. 12 dmg with good rate of fire. Better than unstim marine.

I feel Broodwar design is to design a viable looking army, with each unit able to support one another with specific role to compliment one another. Balance is important, but is not the core of the design.

Then u get a very well designed superiority fighter such as wraith equipped with air - ground weapon in case they need to fire against land unit. With cloak as upgrade to make it even more stretegy.

Science vessal too, with 1 defensive ability, and 2 offensive to deal with respective race.

U get good design BW.

NOW! Tadadadadada

SC2, I feel they design the unit too specifically, mainly for balance reason

u see the replacement of wraith (Viking) need to transform in order to deal with land unit, long time delay of transformation time. Slow speed (as superiority fighter), no cloak. Unable to deal with future threat like phoenix.

u see replacement of vulture (Hellbat) No more mines.. (Is it more effective than vulture? I am not sure...)

u see replacement of goliath, Thor. I feel Goliath is so much needed & important for future war to come, but they delete away maybe for balance.

You see some obvious hardcounter, ghost snipe ability talor to SNIPE, only spellcaster etc..

U dont see a future generation army, u see human playing god, trying to step in everytime to change the ecosystem in order to create the perfect ecosystem.

I feel BW is like a natural ecosystem, where everything blends in perfectly. Let nature fix itself.

I feel SC2 is so man made it lost all its beauty.


Okay, maybe not exactly as what IloveOOV said, but I did mention the design on SC2 is too FOCUS on BALANCE!.

IloveOOV and MC gives me good feelings right now. They are like speaking out for all of us . and their physical appearance gives me some , I dont noe, fatherly? Responsible? Leader? I am not sure but I love both of them right now. <3
Pew! Pew! Chitty Chitty Bang Bang!
Pirfiktshon
Profile Joined June 2013
United States1072 Posts
September 30 2013 20:54 GMT
#30
On October 01 2013 05:49 RifleCow wrote:
I am not envious of David Kim/Dustin Browder's position. You have an entire pro-scene to support, people are asking for everything in the spectrum of no changes all the way to massive game changes. Really a screwed if you do screwed if you don't position. It's no wonder that they do whatever they feel is good for the game and don't really listen to progamers or the community.

In my opinion, it isn't the changes to blame. LoL changes every month and it is still huge. If anything it was just the way they handled the BW to SC2 transition that caused the lowered interest.



Yea its hard to please everyone People are screaming to patch things others are screaming don't as blizzard its gets frustrating i'm sure. HOnestly I said before there should be a poll on blizzard where there is a person elected for each Race Protoss Terran and Zerg that are pro gamers that meet certain qualifications that are allowed to play a roll in discussing the Balance and what would improve sc2 the way everyone wants. Once its done just leave it alone.....
Kasaraki
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Denmark7115 Posts
September 30 2013 20:54 GMT
#31
Oov unchained, he seems to enjoy giving interviews a lot haha.
DiMano
Profile Joined July 2011
Korea (South)2066 Posts
September 30 2013 20:55 GMT
#32
iloveoov is so boss and gives such a good comparison between sc1 and sc2 <3
But you guys are soooo stange you say T, Z or P imba DK please balance the game why there is still no patch and now after the interview you say do not patch the game let things go...
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
September 30 2013 20:57 GMT
#33
On October 01 2013 05:50 Sabu113 wrote:
Unsurprising that a Terran player/coach would have that opinion. Gom TvT and the 1/1/1 turned my enthusiasm to bitterness. Keeping the high health scvs would hae embittered me even faster.

I really doubt just leaving the game alone would result in any more popularity. More than likely everyone would switch to warlock and just stay on warlock til the game died (or Orc rather?).


That's the thing. It wouldn't. Most people nowadays get tired and restless of trying to fight against such things; whereas, guys and gals would work hard at Brood War to get better. Maybe they enjoyed the challenge; maybe it's because you could find games a lot easier (let's play fastest!; let's play Bound!; let's play BGH!; let's ladder, etc.) and so on.
RifleCow
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada637 Posts
September 30 2013 20:58 GMT
#34
On October 01 2013 05:52 StarStruck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 05:49 RifleCow wrote:
I am not envious of David Kim/Dustin Browder's position. You have an entire pro-scene to support, people are asking for everything in the spectrum of no changes all the way to massive game changes. Really a screwed if you do screwed if you don't position. It's no wonder that they do whatever they feel is good for the game and don't really listen to progamers or the community.

In my opinion, it isn't the changes. LoL changes every month and it is still huge.


People need to stop comparing changes/patches from MOBA games to RTS. It's nothing alike. Heck, we have Blizzard on record stating they wanted to show more restraint and let the players figure shit out for themselves, ha.


The balance changes in BW came in the form of mapmaking. If starleagues were still playing lost temple then you would see rampant amount of Terrans. Remember the "Protoss dragons" era, where they made maps so Protoss favored that it looked imbalanced. 2 Base carrier on Katrina was probably the most boring shit ever.

I think overall the HoTS changes have been way better than WoL. Changes should be revolving around making the game more fun to play and watch, rather than some sense of balance.
hohoho
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
September 30 2013 21:02 GMT
#35
On October 01 2013 05:58 RifleCow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 05:52 StarStruck wrote:
On October 01 2013 05:49 RifleCow wrote:
I am not envious of David Kim/Dustin Browder's position. You have an entire pro-scene to support, people are asking for everything in the spectrum of no changes all the way to massive game changes. Really a screwed if you do screwed if you don't position. It's no wonder that they do whatever they feel is good for the game and don't really listen to progamers or the community.

In my opinion, it isn't the changes. LoL changes every month and it is still huge.


People need to stop comparing changes/patches from MOBA games to RTS. It's nothing alike. Heck, we have Blizzard on record stating they wanted to show more restraint and let the players figure shit out for themselves, ha.


The balance changes in BW came in the form of mapmaking. If starleagues were still playing lost temple then you would see rampant amount of Terrans. Remember the "Protoss dragons" era, where they made maps so Protoss favored that it looked imbalanced. 2 Base carrier on Katrina was probably the most boring shit ever.

I think overall the HoTS changes have been way better than WoL. Changes should be revolving around making the game more fun to play and watch, rather than some sense of balance.


That's only one element bud. We could dissect every map and the reality is not every single one of them were balanced. Take the WCG map pool for instance that rarely changed and when it did you left your head scratching with some of the new options. The patches did a lot of the work when it came to attack speed/cost of turrets, the pool changes, etc. That's what we call game changing. Yeah, I remember the Protoss, 6 dragoon era well but that was sort of a cross period and then you have maps like Paradoxxx back in '04 where you're left going, "W-T-F."
IntoTheEmo
Profile Joined February 2009
Singapore1170 Posts
September 30 2013 21:02 GMT
#36
Holy crap, I was *not* prepared for the WoW comparsion. That one hit deep, cause that is so true with all the Blizzard games these days. I was around for the 3:1s and 2:1 Warlocks .

Amazing interview. Glad to see that they're not holding back as much these days; I've always felt that Korean players were pretty conservative in their interviews.
MMOs kill APM. However Proleague plus BW Proscene music increase APM -> 100. 이제동 Fighting! Highest ranked Jaedong owner in FPL10 = clearly #1 Jaedong fan~! <- Keeping my sig from 2010
sekritzzz
Profile Joined December 2010
1515 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-30 21:04:42
September 30 2013 21:02 GMT
#37
On October 01 2013 05:44 BlackPanther wrote:
I think a bigger issue than balance patching is the inherent flaws in the game design that make the game stale.

this pretty much. Blizzard simply refuses to acknowledge/change game design flaws which are the issue, not balance. The biggest one being protoss as a whole race which in turn makes pvz pvt stale matches. Well ive personally stopped playing/watching long ago because of the predictability of games.
TeflonArena
Profile Joined August 2013
Finland18 Posts
September 30 2013 21:05 GMT
#38
This interview is so much win and right stuff. Should go to the featured news list asap to get as much as possible people reading it and making sure David Kim hears about this.

Maybe David Kim can be forced into hiding like Dustin Browder since spring. One can hope...
"Enemy team leads 21 - 5? We got this." - derafrhe
riyanme
Profile Joined September 2010
Philippines940 Posts
September 30 2013 21:06 GMT
#39
DK wacha say huh?
-
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23580 Posts
September 30 2013 21:09 GMT
#40
Maybe Blizzard should hire retired pros and coaches to help them out. Players still competing aren't neutral, but there are a lot of people they could reach out to.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
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