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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
On August 01 2013 18:25 Snowbear wrote: The difference with WOL is that you now actually need to put the same effort in the game as the terran. have you ever played tvz? Marine tank is much harder than MMMM | ||
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Decendos
Germany1341 Posts
On August 01 2013 18:25 Snowbear wrote: I told 70%, then you replied that it was 61%, so I take over what you say --> you complain. TvZ is balanced as hell. The difference with WOL is that you now actually need to put the same effort in the game as the terran. And that hurts, I get that. But to cry that it's terran favoured because you can't 1a anymore, is just ridicilous. and again you are embarrassing yourself :D | ||
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Grovbolle
Denmark3825 Posts
On August 01 2013 18:12 graNite wrote: Where can I find the winrates since the release of hots? Split up by month: http://aligulac.com/reports | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On August 01 2013 18:27 graNite wrote: have you ever played tvz? Marine tank is much harder than MMMM Marine tank = siege, targetfire banelings, stim & split. Marine mine = burrow, targetfire, make sure you don't hit own marines, split. Marine tank is actually easier than marine mine. It's not like you just have to burrow and than watch everything blow up. You need good targetfires. | ||
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ETisME
12909 Posts
On August 01 2013 18:33 Snowbear wrote: Marine tank = siege, targetfire banelings, stim & split. Marine mine = burrow, targetfire, make sure you don't hit own marines, split. Marine tank is actually easier than marine mine. It's not like you just have to burrow and than watch everything blow up. You need good targetfires. what?? getting out with a marine tank army to the opponent is already way harder to do. using drops to mislocate their army positioning etc. protecting the tanks against muta harass etc dealing with counter attacks was much harder as well | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On August 01 2013 18:39 ETisME wrote: what?? getting out with a marine tank army to the opponent is already way harder to do. using drops to mislocate their army positioning etc. protecting the tanks against muta harass etc dealing with counter attacks was much harder as well Mines run faster than your army, so you need to protect them vs muta's too. With tanks you select all your tanks, siege, then shift right click the banelings. That doesn't work with mines: you need to target fire with each of them. About the counter attacks: that's true. But controlling marine mine is really not easier than controlling marine tank. | ||
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Scarlett`
Korea (South)2446 Posts
On August 01 2013 10:04 DeathProfessor wrote: I rolled my eyes at the Zerg but hmm maybe they are slightly UP, not really sure where this comes from. Mothership core is main thing people are complaining about in Korea right now (Z+T); I don't think any Zergs really feel there's an issue with ZvT | ||
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Gullis
Sweden740 Posts
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
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Meatex
Australia285 Posts
was disappointed  | ||
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ReMinD_
Croatia846 Posts
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
On August 01 2013 19:25 Meatex wrote: At first I thought this thread was about July's win rates was disappointed Nope just the usual balance whiners battling out in another thread instead of the designated thread assigned to them. Interesting stats mind you, it will be intersting to see if Zergs can adapt or not | ||
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Swift118
United Kingdom335 Posts
On August 01 2013 15:26 blade55555 wrote: lol shows how much you pay attention to zerg. In zvt, I have tried swarmhosts a lot, and if you go swarmhosts drop play murders you. If you go ling/infestor you get crushed by bio/mine because infestors aren't as good as they used to be. Like you act like we zergs are just sticking to wol strats, no if that were true we would be doing ling/infestor into bl/corr/infestor. No zergs are experimenting and trying other stuff, but non muta play in zvt makes zvt a lot harder. zvp you see lots of zerg uses with vipers/swarmhosts/mutalisks/etc. Like I don't think you know what you are talkinga bout. Quick to get on with the balance whining aren't we? ^^ I can't help but notice when Zerg was overpowered for like the last 6-9 months of WoL or so that on your post signet you had something like "balance whining should not exist on team liquid". More like you do not want balance whining when its not in your favour. I only mention this as I see you posting in just about every thread in the last few years on tl.. Not that I have a problem with balance whining, every should feel free to express themselves, but hypocrites just annoy the fuck out of me. On topic, looks pretty good apart from ZvT in Korea. Will be interesting to see how that match up devolpos over there in the next few months. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On August 01 2013 19:51 Swift118 wrote: Quick to get on with the balance whining aren't we? ^^ I can't help but notice when Zerg was overpowered for like the last 6-9 months of WoL or so that on your post signet you had something like "balance whining should not exist on team liquid". More like you do not want balance whining when its not in your favour. I only mention this as I see you posting in just about every thread in the last few years on tl.. Not that I have a problem with balance whining, every should feel free to express themselves, but hypocrites just annoy the fuck out of me. On topic, looks pretty good apart from ZvT in Korea. Will be interesting to see how that match up devolpos over there in the next few months. Might want to read the quote before you accuse someone of balance whining | ||
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Conut
Canada1026 Posts
On August 01 2013 18:58 Snowbear wrote: Mines run faster than your army, so you need to protect them vs muta's too. With tanks you select all your tanks, siege, then shift right click the banelings. That doesn't work with mines: you need to target fire with each of them. About the counter attacks: that's true. But controlling marine mine is really not easier than controlling marine tank. naw dog using tanks was insanely hard, if you lost your tanks, you where just fucked for the rest of the game, so you always had to make battle plans and position your army well, with mines its just like yolo to their third base. Tank play was always about drawing the army away, getting into the right spot, kiting marines while targeting banes, and then once things got really close, you had to decide to use your tanks as meat shields for your marines or just fight it out and let the tanks do the damage. mines are just so much easier when it comes into battle, as long as you have them spread a little you just have to burrow, they do the rest by just zoning. | ||
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Swift118
United Kingdom335 Posts
On August 01 2013 19:54 bo1b wrote: Might want to read the quote before you accuse someone of balance whining Maybe this is not the first post from this person I am talking about as in another thread I read today he is giving off some Terran win rates and basically saying that they are overpowered in a sarcastic manner. They are just threads that I happened to read today so I can only assume this is going on a fair bit. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10168 Posts
On August 01 2013 18:39 ETisME wrote: what?? getting out with a marine tank army to the opponent is already way harder to do. using drops to mislocate their army positioning etc. protecting the tanks against muta harass etc dealing with counter attacks was much harder as well I find widow mine bio harder to execute properly than biomech in tvz. | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On August 01 2013 20:19 Swift118 wrote: Maybe this is not the first post from this person I am talking about as in another thread I read today he is giving off some Terran win rates and basically saying that they are overpowered in a sarcastic manner. They are just threads that I happened to read today so I can only assume this is going on a fair bit. "from this person" shows how little you realize who you're talking about. Blade is one of the biggest contributors to the TL forums, and yes, he plays Zerg, and he does it well. He puts together tons of guides and often participates in fruitful discussions on how to play better, experiment with less popular units and is generally a huge boon to this community. And you come in here trying to act like he's some nobody crying about balance. If you want to argue things are fine, go ahead, but don't start accusing people of being balance whiners when they're pointing out that things are not fine. I agree with Blade, Zerg is UP again. SH are the slowest unit in the game, Infestors are actually worse than they were on release of WOL at this point, Corruptors have always sucked, Hydras are still usually not worth using, and Vipers have proven to be lackluster. I am not ready to cry imba just yet, but these stats don't surprise me at all. Claiming that Zergs aren't using all their options sounds like arguments back at the release of WOL, and it has all the same causes. Zerg options are there, but they suck. | ||
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Heouf
Netherlands787 Posts
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v_lm
France202 Posts
Also, we shouldn't just be examining win/loss ratios superficially; but also the nature of said wins/losses This. Whats relevant is : - The highest level (to the point that the Korea winrates, even if they are established on a small sample basis, are more relevant than the 6000 + games of aligulac) Im not saying PvZ and TvZ are broken, but it definitely says : either Z is UP or Z progamers are bad / playing the wrong metagame. - The winrate on standard games which is even lower. Again, could also mean that zerg players didnt find the right metagame yet.. The better tool we have right now is time and seeing how the metagame evolves. I personnaly think that Blizzard left us a really raw game with HoTs which needed A LOT OF changes. I was surprised the game wasnt patch at the beginning, now Im less surprised because I understand BLizzard philosophy : letting the metagame evolve during long period of time before patching. | ||
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