EPTJuly Winrates! - Page 6
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Achaia
United States643 Posts
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
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dNa
Germany591 Posts
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v_lm
France202 Posts
On August 01 2013 18:33 Snowbear wrote: Marine tank = siege, targetfire banelings, stim & split. Marine mine = burrow, targetfire, make sure you don't hit own marines, split. Marine tank is actually easier than marine mine. It's not like you just have to burrow and than watch everything blow up. You need good targetfires. Not going to go into the micro details, im not a GM terran player. But you need to take into account the cost-efficiency of mines and that mines reinforcement comes faster. When you play marine tank and you loose all your tanks your in deep trouble while you can afford to loose mines. It gives you some kind of "freedom of movement", hence easier. When you see marine tank play you see strategical waves of pushes.When you see marine mines you see rally pushing... the latter is really easier. | ||
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Wingblade
United States1806 Posts
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scypio
Poland2127 Posts
On August 01 2013 21:18 v_lm wrote: - The highest level (to the point that the Korea winrates, even if they are established on a small sample basis, are more relevant than the 6000 + games of aligulac) Im not saying PvZ and TvZ are broken, but it definitely says : either Z is UP or Z progamers are bad / playing the wrong metagame. Well, this is the thing that may be important for you and other highest-level-starcraft fans. Blizzard does not see it that way and this is no wonder - they take a look at the big picture not a tiny highest-level snippet. And the big picture does include all premier tournaments played all over the world as this is what people actually watch. In the big picture the zerg is performing well. Yes, maybe they have to work hard for it, maybe they need to do dull things like rlb or mlb every single time. But they do get the results, you know, they win the important stuff, like the DH, IEM, RSL V and Red Bull Batlleground to list a few of recent zerg results. Even if it is only WCS KR that matters then a strong reaction after a single season where the zerg underperformed there seems a little bit hasty. After all, they won every single GSL Code S since 2012 Season 4 that started in August 2012. And look, it is August 2013. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On August 01 2013 21:52 scypio wrote: Well, this is the thing that may be important for you and other highest-level-starcraft fans. Blizzard does not see it that way and this is no wonder - they take a look at the big picture not a tiny highest-level snippet. And the big picture does include all premier tournaments played all over the world as this is what people actually watch. In the big picture the zerg is performing well. Yes, maybe they have to work hard for it, maybe they need to do dull things like rlb or mlb every single time. But they do get the results, you know, they win the important stuff, like the DH, IEM, RSL V and Red Bull Batlleground to list a few of recent zerg results. Even if it is only WCS KR that matters then a strong reaction after a single season where the zerg underperformed there seems a little bit hasty. After all, they won every single GSL Code S since 2012 Season 4 that started in August 2012. And look, it is August 2013. While I don't think tvz is horrendously imbalanced, the way your arguing is pretty horrible. Wol balance shouldn't have anything to do with hots balance, rsl v dh and iem were stupidly zerg heavy at the top end, and the line up of red bull battleground is just not the same as "highest level". | ||
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scypio
Poland2127 Posts
On August 01 2013 21:58 bo1b wrote: While I don't think tvz is horrendously imbalanced, the way your arguing is pretty horrible. Wol balance shouldn't have anything to do with hots balance, rsl v dh and iem were stupidly zerg heavy at the top end, and the line up of red bull battleground is just not the same as "highest level". WoL balance only shows how used to the idea of winning everything the zergies are. It took that much time for them to actually lose in KR and snap! the whining becomes unbearable just-like-that. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On August 01 2013 22:04 scypio wrote: WoL balance only shows how used to the idea of winning everything the zergies are. It took that much time for them to actually lose in KR and snap! the whining becomes unbearable just-like-that. In fairness, terran was stupidly broken for a good percentage of time in korea, and now zerg is getting shit on in wcs proleague and gstl. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On August 01 2013 21:32 v_lm wrote: Not going to go into the micro details, im not a GM terran player. But you need to take into account the cost-efficiency of mines and that mines reinforcement comes faster. When you play marine tank and you loose all your tanks your in deep trouble while you can afford to loose mines. It gives you some kind of "freedom of movement", hence easier. When you see marine tank play you see strategical waves of pushes.When you see marine mines you see rally pushing... the latter is really easier. ?? Parade pushes are way more demanding. | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On August 01 2013 22:04 scypio wrote: WoL balance only shows how used to the idea of winning everything the zergies are. It took that much time for them to actually lose in KR and snap! the whining becomes unbearable just-like-that. Meh, we are not really whining. Just last month, zerg had edges in the winrate for both tvz and pvz. Next month in might swing our way again, who can say? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44620 Posts
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On August 01 2013 22:42 MstrJinbo wrote: Meh, we are not really whining. Just last month, zerg had edges in the winrate for both tvz and pvz. Next month in might swing our way again, who can say? You kind of need to look a little in the game itself to answer this question. Historically the strength of bio mine in TvZ has been questionable since the beta of HoTS and early release of HoTS. I even rembember Life saying, when he won the first MlG after having baneling bust his way to the final that he believed that mines were still too strong so this discusssion has always been around to say the least. The thing is, since the release of HoTS, there was not a lot of win coming from zerg going macro game. The last two month, we saw a lot variation of old build, like roach all in, roach baneling 1/1, roach drops, roach nyddus but none of this as been an issue in WoL and none of these build are especially new, they just fit pretty well in the metagame with terran defending 3CC with mines instead of tank in WoL, but eventually it was just a matter of time before terran build are refined to deal with these all in and I think it's what we see now. From my point of view, up to now, the core issue about how to trade against bio mines with a ling based army hasn't been found yet (if there is any), zerg has been avoiding this issue by doing all in and it worked for a time, but now they are kind of figured out and zerg are kind of back to early HoTS situation. | ||
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Empirimancer
Canada1024 Posts
If these units move faster, they can get in range of marines more easily before the mines blow up, and thus the mines will do splash damage to the Terran as well. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
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sibs
635 Posts
On August 02 2013 02:06 awesomoecalypse wrote: I think more Zergs would win in ZvP if they played Stephano style, with mass swarmhosts + static defense. The problem is, that playstyle is super boring, both to play and to watch. I'm not sure Stephano's success isn't only due to the fact he's playing inferior opponents, but yea it does seem super strong when he does it, but when other people do it... just not that great. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
On August 02 2013 02:44 sibs wrote: I'm not sure Stephano's success isn't only due to the fact he's playing inferior opponents, but yea it does seem super strong when he does it, but when other people do it... just not that great. I haven't really seen anyone else play with the patience Stephano does. With that sort of playstyle, you really have to be ready and willing to take every game to an hour or more, and most players are understandably uninterested in playing hourlong turtlefest after hourlong turtlefest, regardless of how effective it is. Its the same reason no one else played mech the way Goody did in WoL, because even when he won, there was no fun in it for either players or spectators. | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On August 02 2013 02:44 sibs wrote: I'm not sure Stephano's success isn't only due to the fact he's playing inferior opponents, but yea it does seem super strong when he does it, but when other people do it... just not that great. Inferior opponents like MC, Hero and Alicia right  | ||
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sibs
635 Posts
On August 02 2013 02:54 MstrJinbo wrote: Inferior opponents like MC, Hero and Alicia right You really think MC is any good these days? Thats the only player he played out of MC Hero Alicia, also Stephano is known for having world class ZvP, he had the best ZvP in the world arguably back in WoL. http://aligulac.com/players/10/results/?after=&before=&race=p&nats=all&bo=all&offline=both&game=HotS | ||
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EAGER-beaver
Canada2799 Posts
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