|
On July 24 2013 01:48 Resilient wrote:
If Blizzard is taking anything from this whole ordeal, it's at least to consider having a backup stream like Valve has done (despite already having the best spectator client by far). Twitch is likely to die, and is already garbage for EU. Heres hoping they have the sense to ask Youtube.
I really hope they do that. It is just so much better if you can switch if one stream sucks.
|
On July 24 2013 01:36 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 01:25 ragz_gt wrote:On July 24 2013 01:04 c0ldfusion wrote:On July 24 2013 00:44 Talin wrote:On July 24 2013 00:26 c0ldfusion wrote:On July 24 2013 00:17 Shiori wrote:On July 23 2013 23:57 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 23:52 Talin wrote:On July 23 2013 23:41 Plansix wrote:
Its annoying, but no more annoying that two great football games playing at the same time.
What if the two great football games being played at the same time were the Champions League and World Cup finals? I imagine it would be a little bit more than "annoying". Well more like the division finals for America football being on at the same time as the Masters for Golf. Not at all. I'm pretty sure the demographic for the fucking International has a significant number of Sc2 players in it. I'm pretty sure the people who are golf fans aren't going to regret missing a division finals in American football, and vice versa, because there's not a whole lot of overlap (since golf & football are radically different sports). Sc2 and DotA have a huge crossover in terms of fanbase, not least because TL covers DotA. There is absolutely no excuse to run an important series of regional finals on the same day as the Superbowl of the eSports scene. It's just catastrophically stupid on so many levels. I've been hearing this a lot in this thread and none of us have any real data. But let's follow along your line of reasoning for a second, in what way is SC2 and DotA so similar that you'd expect a huge overlap in spectators? To me, they're no less different than golf and football. They're closer to basketball and football in the context of American sports. Games don't have to be similar, because people don't have uniform interests. In fact, overlap would arguably be smaller if the games were similar or part of the same genre. Even if we disregard the actual games, the very magnitude of events would naturally draw in people that haven't watched before or don't watch regularly to check them out. They don't have to know, understand, or even like the game initially. I first watched Dota as a Starcraft fan during the TI2. There were only two things I knew about the game - that Black Hole was a big deal, and that the watery hero is important for the late game. I watched it anyway because the production, commentary, and the energy of a live crowd created an amazing atmosphere. There isn't a huge overlap among basketball and football fans here. But actually I agree with you on your other comment. I think in terms of newer viewers, this will likely turn more of them to TI3 than WCS. Like you, I casually took a peek at TI2 when it aired. Though I haven't watched any DotA since. That would be an impact but I'm not sure how big the casual viewership is and how likely it is for either TI3 or WCS to convert them to regular/hardcore fans. Wait what? I don't really know anyone that watches football and doesn't at least watch basketball on a semi-regular basis or vice versa. Most people do not watch all major league sports. I know a few people who watch hockey, baseball and some football, but all of those have different seasons and they only watch games for their team. And stuff is held on the on the same day all the time. Division finals can run on the same day as another championship(though the seasons do not line up).
Nearly every major american sports season has an overlap with another and some run concurrently. Also, demographics and TV ratings would indicate that the majority of American sports fans watch each major sport of its respective calendar season.
|
On July 24 2013 01:52 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 01:47 Swords wrote:On July 24 2013 01:36 Plansix wrote:On July 24 2013 01:25 ragz_gt wrote:On July 24 2013 01:04 c0ldfusion wrote:On July 24 2013 00:44 Talin wrote:On July 24 2013 00:26 c0ldfusion wrote:On July 24 2013 00:17 Shiori wrote:On July 23 2013 23:57 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 23:52 Talin wrote:
[quote]
What if the two great football games being played at the same time were the Champions League and World Cup finals?
I imagine it would be a little bit more than "annoying". Well more like the division finals for America football being on at the same time as the Masters for Golf. Not at all. I'm pretty sure the demographic for the fucking International has a significant number of Sc2 players in it. I'm pretty sure the people who are golf fans aren't going to regret missing a division finals in American football, and vice versa, because there's not a whole lot of overlap (since golf & football are radically different sports). Sc2 and DotA have a huge crossover in terms of fanbase, not least because TL covers DotA. There is absolutely no excuse to run an important series of regional finals on the same day as the Superbowl of the eSports scene. It's just catastrophically stupid on so many levels. I've been hearing this a lot in this thread and none of us have any real data. But let's follow along your line of reasoning for a second, in what way is SC2 and DotA so similar that you'd expect a huge overlap in spectators? To me, they're no less different than golf and football. They're closer to basketball and football in the context of American sports. Games don't have to be similar, because people don't have uniform interests. In fact, overlap would arguably be smaller if the games were similar or part of the same genre. Even if we disregard the actual games, the very magnitude of events would naturally draw in people that haven't watched before or don't watch regularly to check them out. They don't have to know, understand, or even like the game initially. I first watched Dota as a Starcraft fan during the TI2. There were only two things I knew about the game - that Black Hole was a big deal, and that the watery hero is important for the late game. I watched it anyway because the production, commentary, and the energy of a live crowd created an amazing atmosphere. There isn't a huge overlap among basketball and football fans here. But actually I agree with you on your other comment. I think in terms of newer viewers, this will likely turn more of them to TI3 than WCS. Like you, I casually took a peek at TI2 when it aired. Though I haven't watched any DotA since. That would be an impact but I'm not sure how big the casual viewership is and how likely it is for either TI3 or WCS to convert them to regular/hardcore fans. Wait what? I don't really know anyone that watches football and doesn't at least watch basketball on a semi-regular basis or vice versa. Most people do not watch all major league sports. I know a few people who watch hockey, baseball and some football, but all of those have different seasons and they only watch games for their team. And stuff is held on the on the same day all the time. Division finals can run on the same day as another championship(though the seasons do not line up). Wouldn't TI3 be a better comparison with the Super Bowl though? It's a once a year event with a massive prizepool and it's really the big Dota2 Tournament of the whole year. All TV networks try to avoid scheduling anything remotely important during the Super Bowl, even those that don't show sports. Obviously TI3 is nowhere near as big as American Football, but in the world of esports it seems like if there was an equivalent to the Super Bowl, where you would try to avoid overlapping anything remotely important, it'd be TI3 and the LoL World Finals. The decision is just weird. Total Biscuit was saying on Reddit that one of the big problems here is companies investing in esports are going to look at stream numbers and come to the conclusion that investing in Dota makes more sense than investing in SC2 since there's no way in hell that WCS will be able to come close to competing with TI3. Even if there isn't huge viewer overlap, it looks pretty bad to be totally overshadowed by another game when you're showing your finals. To go back to the sports comparison, hockey team owners don't like it when basketball games get a much bigger audience, even if those people don't like hockey, because it's bad for business. The Superblow does not last for a full weekend. It is, at max, 5-7 hours in you include EVERYTHING. It is easy to stay out of its way. That is one of the larger problems with a lot of Esports events: they take forever.
I realize that, but what I'm saying is on all the weekends of the year there are really only a few you should try to avoid at all costs - TI3 being one of them.
Even one regional final would've been ok, but to have three of them on a weekend that's going to be completely dominated by Dota2 is an awfully strange business decision.
|
So I've been reading the same comments over and over about how Blizz goofed hardcore by having the WCS finals be on the same day as TI3, since it will likely cut into viewers etc. While I agree, it can be inconvenient to fans who want to watch both of them (and for one reason or another, cannot do both), I still am a little confused.
There seems to be a jump that this conflict in scheduling (mistake on Blizzard's part) is of apocalyptic size and importance. Yes, WCS viewings will probably take a hit, and some people may have to choose between SC2 or DotA 2 for which stream/tournament they'd rather watch, but that doesn't mean that 'starcraft is dying' or 'blizzard has failed starcraft completely' etc. It's an inconvenience, not the end of the world, and if viewer numbers do take a hit, you can bet for sure that Blizzard will fix it next time around.
TL DR: It seems like people are blowing this way out of proportion and making it into something much more serious
|
On July 24 2013 02:02 Swords wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 01:52 Plansix wrote:On July 24 2013 01:47 Swords wrote:On July 24 2013 01:36 Plansix wrote:On July 24 2013 01:25 ragz_gt wrote:On July 24 2013 01:04 c0ldfusion wrote:On July 24 2013 00:44 Talin wrote:On July 24 2013 00:26 c0ldfusion wrote:On July 24 2013 00:17 Shiori wrote:On July 23 2013 23:57 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Well more like the division finals for America football being on at the same time as the Masters for Golf. Not at all. I'm pretty sure the demographic for the fucking International has a significant number of Sc2 players in it. I'm pretty sure the people who are golf fans aren't going to regret missing a division finals in American football, and vice versa, because there's not a whole lot of overlap (since golf & football are radically different sports). Sc2 and DotA have a huge crossover in terms of fanbase, not least because TL covers DotA. There is absolutely no excuse to run an important series of regional finals on the same day as the Superbowl of the eSports scene. It's just catastrophically stupid on so many levels. I've been hearing this a lot in this thread and none of us have any real data. But let's follow along your line of reasoning for a second, in what way is SC2 and DotA so similar that you'd expect a huge overlap in spectators? To me, they're no less different than golf and football. They're closer to basketball and football in the context of American sports. Games don't have to be similar, because people don't have uniform interests. In fact, overlap would arguably be smaller if the games were similar or part of the same genre. Even if we disregard the actual games, the very magnitude of events would naturally draw in people that haven't watched before or don't watch regularly to check them out. They don't have to know, understand, or even like the game initially. I first watched Dota as a Starcraft fan during the TI2. There were only two things I knew about the game - that Black Hole was a big deal, and that the watery hero is important for the late game. I watched it anyway because the production, commentary, and the energy of a live crowd created an amazing atmosphere. There isn't a huge overlap among basketball and football fans here. But actually I agree with you on your other comment. I think in terms of newer viewers, this will likely turn more of them to TI3 than WCS. Like you, I casually took a peek at TI2 when it aired. Though I haven't watched any DotA since. That would be an impact but I'm not sure how big the casual viewership is and how likely it is for either TI3 or WCS to convert them to regular/hardcore fans. Wait what? I don't really know anyone that watches football and doesn't at least watch basketball on a semi-regular basis or vice versa. Most people do not watch all major league sports. I know a few people who watch hockey, baseball and some football, but all of those have different seasons and they only watch games for their team. And stuff is held on the on the same day all the time. Division finals can run on the same day as another championship(though the seasons do not line up). Wouldn't TI3 be a better comparison with the Super Bowl though? It's a once a year event with a massive prizepool and it's really the big Dota2 Tournament of the whole year. All TV networks try to avoid scheduling anything remotely important during the Super Bowl, even those that don't show sports. Obviously TI3 is nowhere near as big as American Football, but in the world of esports it seems like if there was an equivalent to the Super Bowl, where you would try to avoid overlapping anything remotely important, it'd be TI3 and the LoL World Finals. The decision is just weird. Total Biscuit was saying on Reddit that one of the big problems here is companies investing in esports are going to look at stream numbers and come to the conclusion that investing in Dota makes more sense than investing in SC2 since there's no way in hell that WCS will be able to come close to competing with TI3. Even if there isn't huge viewer overlap, it looks pretty bad to be totally overshadowed by another game when you're showing your finals. To go back to the sports comparison, hockey team owners don't like it when basketball games get a much bigger audience, even if those people don't like hockey, because it's bad for business. The Superblow does not last for a full weekend. It is, at max, 5-7 hours in you include EVERYTHING. It is easy to stay out of its way. That is one of the larger problems with a lot of Esports events: they take forever. I realize that, but what I'm saying is on all the weekends of the year there are really only a few you should try to avoid at all costs - TI3 being one of them. Even one regional final would've been ok, but to have three of them on a weekend that's going to be completely dominated by Dota2 is an awfully strange business decision.
They need to finish all the finals before Gamescon, two weeks later(see other thread on TL about the world finals for season 2). They either hold the finals early, aka, next weekend and everythign is rushed or they hold them the week before the finals and the teams have a week to work out getting their players who qualify to Gamescon. They only way they can find enough time to run the event is to get a Tardis and pull all of WCS back about 4 weeks.
|
On July 24 2013 02:02 BoZiffer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 01:36 Plansix wrote:On July 24 2013 01:25 ragz_gt wrote:On July 24 2013 01:04 c0ldfusion wrote:On July 24 2013 00:44 Talin wrote:On July 24 2013 00:26 c0ldfusion wrote:On July 24 2013 00:17 Shiori wrote:On July 23 2013 23:57 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 23:52 Talin wrote:On July 23 2013 23:41 Plansix wrote:
Its annoying, but no more annoying that two great football games playing at the same time.
What if the two great football games being played at the same time were the Champions League and World Cup finals? I imagine it would be a little bit more than "annoying". Well more like the division finals for America football being on at the same time as the Masters for Golf. Not at all. I'm pretty sure the demographic for the fucking International has a significant number of Sc2 players in it. I'm pretty sure the people who are golf fans aren't going to regret missing a division finals in American football, and vice versa, because there's not a whole lot of overlap (since golf & football are radically different sports). Sc2 and DotA have a huge crossover in terms of fanbase, not least because TL covers DotA. There is absolutely no excuse to run an important series of regional finals on the same day as the Superbowl of the eSports scene. It's just catastrophically stupid on so many levels. I've been hearing this a lot in this thread and none of us have any real data. But let's follow along your line of reasoning for a second, in what way is SC2 and DotA so similar that you'd expect a huge overlap in spectators? To me, they're no less different than golf and football. They're closer to basketball and football in the context of American sports. Games don't have to be similar, because people don't have uniform interests. In fact, overlap would arguably be smaller if the games were similar or part of the same genre. Even if we disregard the actual games, the very magnitude of events would naturally draw in people that haven't watched before or don't watch regularly to check them out. They don't have to know, understand, or even like the game initially. I first watched Dota as a Starcraft fan during the TI2. There were only two things I knew about the game - that Black Hole was a big deal, and that the watery hero is important for the late game. I watched it anyway because the production, commentary, and the energy of a live crowd created an amazing atmosphere. There isn't a huge overlap among basketball and football fans here. But actually I agree with you on your other comment. I think in terms of newer viewers, this will likely turn more of them to TI3 than WCS. Like you, I casually took a peek at TI2 when it aired. Though I haven't watched any DotA since. That would be an impact but I'm not sure how big the casual viewership is and how likely it is for either TI3 or WCS to convert them to regular/hardcore fans. Wait what? I don't really know anyone that watches football and doesn't at least watch basketball on a semi-regular basis or vice versa. Most people do not watch all major league sports. I know a few people who watch hockey, baseball and some football, but all of those have different seasons and they only watch games for their team. And stuff is held on the on the same day all the time. Division finals can run on the same day as another championship(though the seasons do not line up). Nearly every major american sports season has an overlap with another and some run concurrently. Also, demographics and TV ratings would indicate that the majority of American sports fans watch each major sport of its respective calendar season.
Yes, but you are talking about a season system that has been in place for nearly 50 years. They have worked the kinks out of it during that time and its a well oiled machine. And once again, they have Superblow Sunday, at night. Not Superblow 3 day event.
|
On July 24 2013 02:04 Pazuzu wrote:
So I've been reading the same comments over and over about how Blizz goofed hardcore by having the WCS finals be on the same day as TI3, since it will likely cut into viewers etc. While I agree, it can be inconvenient to fans who want to watch both of them (and for one reason or another, cannot do both), I still am a little confused.
There seems to be a jump that this conflict in scheduling (mistake on Blizzard's part) is of apocalyptic size and importance. Yes, WCS viewings will probably take a hit, and some people may have to choose between SC2 or DotA 2 for which stream/tournament they'd rather watch, but that doesn't mean that 'starcraft is dying' or 'blizzard has failed starcraft completely' etc. It's an inconvenience, not the end of the world, and if viewer numbers do take a hit, you can bet for sure that Blizzard will fix it next time around.
TL DR: It seems like people are blowing this way out of proportion and making it into something much more serious
I agree with this to some extent. I think what you're seeing is a boiling over of frustration about how WCS has been organized so far. It feels like Blizzard makes a mistake every time it tries to do something with WCS and that they're incapable of learning from other companies who have been running esports tournaments for awhile (Riot and Valve).
This is certainly not the end of the world - as someone already pointed out, in the grand scheme of SC2 events this isn't even that big of an event. However, the constant stream of mistakes coming from Blizzard with regards to WCS is concerning.
|
On July 24 2013 02:10 Swords wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 02:04 Pazuzu wrote:
So I've been reading the same comments over and over about how Blizz goofed hardcore by having the WCS finals be on the same day as TI3, since it will likely cut into viewers etc. While I agree, it can be inconvenient to fans who want to watch both of them (and for one reason or another, cannot do both), I still am a little confused.
There seems to be a jump that this conflict in scheduling (mistake on Blizzard's part) is of apocalyptic size and importance. Yes, WCS viewings will probably take a hit, and some people may have to choose between SC2 or DotA 2 for which stream/tournament they'd rather watch, but that doesn't mean that 'starcraft is dying' or 'blizzard has failed starcraft completely' etc. It's an inconvenience, not the end of the world, and if viewer numbers do take a hit, you can bet for sure that Blizzard will fix it next time around.
TL DR: It seems like people are blowing this way out of proportion and making it into something much more serious I agree with this to some extent. I think what you're seeing is a boiling over of frustration about how WCS has been organized so far. It feels like Blizzard makes a mistake every time it tries to do something with WCS and that they're incapable of learning from other companies who have been running esports tournaments for awhile (Riot and Valve). This is certainly not the end of the world - as someone already pointed out, in the grand scheme of SC2 events this isn't even that big of an event. However, the constant stream of mistakes coming from Blizzard with regards to WCS is concerning.
See what you said right there is a collected, coherent statement, and one that I can agree wholeheartedly with. It's just unfortunate to see people bashing the tournament that is the closest to a centralized league seen outside of PL in Korea, even if it may currently be flawed
|
On July 23 2013 22:13 theking1 wrote:totalbrit and destiny.Where would the sc2 community be without their continuous whining  .At least totalbrit invests in the sc2 scene and knows how to attract viewers.Destiny on the other hand plays lol fulltime and still whines about blizzard .And now he somehow dragged liquidsheth out of all people in the qq/whine/rage group
In a worse place than it would be if it were dominated by shitty Blizzard apologists who blindly agree with everything this company does despite it's bad decisions time and again. Let's all remember to get up tomorrow and be thankful that these people have no influence in the scene.
Man, you guys plagued WoW as well. Always using your thought-terminating cliches, claiming anything that didn't fit with your view was "whining". You're awful, really, self-destruction dullards that are so short-sighted they can't see the very thing they're enjoying is being damaged time and again by poor decisions from the people in control of it.
So forgive me if I think I might have earned the right to tell you to shut the fuck up.
|
On July 24 2013 02:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 22:13 theking1 wrote:totalbrit and destiny.Where would the sc2 community be without their continuous whining .At least totalbrit invests in the sc2 scene and knows how to attract viewers.Destiny on the other hand plays lol fulltime and still whines about blizzard .And now he somehow dragged liquidsheth out of all people in the qq/whine/rage group In a worse place than it would be if it were dominated by shitty Blizzard apologists who blindly agree with everything this company does despite it's bad decisions time and again. Let's all remember to get up tomorrow and be thankful that these people have no influence in the scene.
Oh come on TB, we said that you are good for the scene and like you. You just love to shoot from the hip a lot, mostly on twitter and reddit. Sometimes you hit dead on, other times you miss. Sometimes I wish you would do it less, other times I think its really funny. At the end of the day, its good for everyone and does keep Blizzard honest.
Now the hate dog pile afterwords, that is a different story...
|
On July 24 2013 02:21 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 02:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 23 2013 22:13 theking1 wrote:totalbrit and destiny.Where would the sc2 community be without their continuous whining .At least totalbrit invests in the sc2 scene and knows how to attract viewers.Destiny on the other hand plays lol fulltime and still whines about blizzard .And now he somehow dragged liquidsheth out of all people in the qq/whine/rage group In a worse place than it would be if it were dominated by shitty Blizzard apologists who blindly agree with everything this company does despite it's bad decisions time and again. Let's all remember to get up tomorrow and be thankful that these people have no influence in the scene. Oh come on TB, we said that you are good for the scene and like you. You just love to shoot from the hip a lot, mostly on twitter and reddit. Sometimes you hit dead on, other times you miss. Sometimes I wish you would do it less, other times I think its really funny. At the end of the day, its good for everyone and does keep Blizzard honest. Now the hate dog pile afterwords, that is a different story...
Nah the problem is it just seems to be such a polarizing issue, people are pretty much one extreme or the other. Though i guess that makes sense since only people with strong opinions about it would be the ones to discuss it on internet forums haha
|
On July 24 2013 01:52 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 01:47 Swords wrote:On July 24 2013 01:36 Plansix wrote:On July 24 2013 01:25 ragz_gt wrote:On July 24 2013 01:04 c0ldfusion wrote:On July 24 2013 00:44 Talin wrote:On July 24 2013 00:26 c0ldfusion wrote:On July 24 2013 00:17 Shiori wrote:On July 23 2013 23:57 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 23:52 Talin wrote:
[quote]
What if the two great football games being played at the same time were the Champions League and World Cup finals?
I imagine it would be a little bit more than "annoying". Well more like the division finals for America football being on at the same time as the Masters for Golf. Not at all. I'm pretty sure the demographic for the fucking International has a significant number of Sc2 players in it. I'm pretty sure the people who are golf fans aren't going to regret missing a division finals in American football, and vice versa, because there's not a whole lot of overlap (since golf & football are radically different sports). Sc2 and DotA have a huge crossover in terms of fanbase, not least because TL covers DotA. There is absolutely no excuse to run an important series of regional finals on the same day as the Superbowl of the eSports scene. It's just catastrophically stupid on so many levels. I've been hearing this a lot in this thread and none of us have any real data. But let's follow along your line of reasoning for a second, in what way is SC2 and DotA so similar that you'd expect a huge overlap in spectators? To me, they're no less different than golf and football. They're closer to basketball and football in the context of American sports. Games don't have to be similar, because people don't have uniform interests. In fact, overlap would arguably be smaller if the games were similar or part of the same genre. Even if we disregard the actual games, the very magnitude of events would naturally draw in people that haven't watched before or don't watch regularly to check them out. They don't have to know, understand, or even like the game initially. I first watched Dota as a Starcraft fan during the TI2. There were only two things I knew about the game - that Black Hole was a big deal, and that the watery hero is important for the late game. I watched it anyway because the production, commentary, and the energy of a live crowd created an amazing atmosphere. There isn't a huge overlap among basketball and football fans here. But actually I agree with you on your other comment. I think in terms of newer viewers, this will likely turn more of them to TI3 than WCS. Like you, I casually took a peek at TI2 when it aired. Though I haven't watched any DotA since. That would be an impact but I'm not sure how big the casual viewership is and how likely it is for either TI3 or WCS to convert them to regular/hardcore fans. Wait what? I don't really know anyone that watches football and doesn't at least watch basketball on a semi-regular basis or vice versa. Most people do not watch all major league sports. I know a few people who watch hockey, baseball and some football, but all of those have different seasons and they only watch games for their team. And stuff is held on the on the same day all the time. Division finals can run on the same day as another championship(though the seasons do not line up). Wouldn't TI3 be a better comparison with the Super Bowl though? It's a once a year event with a massive prizepool and it's really the big Dota2 Tournament of the whole year. All TV networks try to avoid scheduling anything remotely important during the Super Bowl, even those that don't show sports. Obviously TI3 is nowhere near as big as American Football, but in the world of esports it seems like if there was an equivalent to the Super Bowl, where you would try to avoid overlapping anything remotely important, it'd be TI3 and the LoL World Finals. The decision is just weird. Total Biscuit was saying on Reddit that one of the big problems here is companies investing in esports are going to look at stream numbers and come to the conclusion that investing in Dota makes more sense than investing in SC2 since there's no way in hell that WCS will be able to come close to competing with TI3. Even if there isn't huge viewer overlap, it looks pretty bad to be totally overshadowed by another game when you're showing your finals. To go back to the sports comparison, hockey team owners don't like it when basketball games get a much bigger audience, even if those people don't like hockey, because it's bad for business. The Superblow does not last for a full weekend. It is, at max, 5-7 hours in you include EVERYTHING. It is easy to stay out of its way. That is one of the larger problems with a lot of Esports events: they take forever.
Um, even if the Superbowl is only one day, that doesn't change the fact that holding a major final on the Saturday before the next day's Superbowl is still a terrible idea, because people are preparing for that Superbowl and can't be bothered to attend/get hyped for two events that close to each other. Lots of people go absolutely nuts during Superbowl season; they're not going to do it two days in a row. What's more, this is one weekend. It's three damn days. That's not "forever." That's one weekend. There have been oodles and oodles of weekends to chose from, and you're telling me that, of the fifty-two weekends in a given year, there was no way for Blizzard to avoid this one without sacrificing Blizzcon? Are you serious?
|
On July 24 2013 02:24 Pazuzu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 02:21 Plansix wrote:On July 24 2013 02:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 23 2013 22:13 theking1 wrote:totalbrit and destiny.Where would the sc2 community be without their continuous whining .At least totalbrit invests in the sc2 scene and knows how to attract viewers.Destiny on the other hand plays lol fulltime and still whines about blizzard .And now he somehow dragged liquidsheth out of all people in the qq/whine/rage group In a worse place than it would be if it were dominated by shitty Blizzard apologists who blindly agree with everything this company does despite it's bad decisions time and again. Let's all remember to get up tomorrow and be thankful that these people have no influence in the scene. Oh come on TB, we said that you are good for the scene and like you. You just love to shoot from the hip a lot, mostly on twitter and reddit. Sometimes you hit dead on, other times you miss. Sometimes I wish you would do it less, other times I think its really funny. At the end of the day, its good for everyone and does keep Blizzard honest. Now the hate dog pile afterwords, that is a different story... Nah the problem is it just seems to be such a polarizing issue, people are pretty much one extreme or the other. Though i guess that makes sense since only people with strong opinions about it would be the ones to discuss it on internet forums haha
There really is no middle of the road on the internet. Nuance and context are lost on us all. You are either a whiner or an apologists. I guess I am the latter, because I don't really mind that they are on the same weekend. But I looked at the other dates and what was going on, the number of weeks till Blizzcon and then remember we don't have time travel. So after that, it was easy to just go "Well, I guess they can't do anythng about it. Time to break out the second screen."
I think I might hook up my wifi repeater so I can listen to games while I do yard work.
|
On July 24 2013 02:24 Pazuzu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 02:21 Plansix wrote:On July 24 2013 02:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 23 2013 22:13 theking1 wrote:totalbrit and destiny.Where would the sc2 community be without their continuous whining .At least totalbrit invests in the sc2 scene and knows how to attract viewers.Destiny on the other hand plays lol fulltime and still whines about blizzard .And now he somehow dragged liquidsheth out of all people in the qq/whine/rage group In a worse place than it would be if it were dominated by shitty Blizzard apologists who blindly agree with everything this company does despite it's bad decisions time and again. Let's all remember to get up tomorrow and be thankful that these people have no influence in the scene. Oh come on TB, we said that you are good for the scene and like you. You just love to shoot from the hip a lot, mostly on twitter and reddit. Sometimes you hit dead on, other times you miss. Sometimes I wish you would do it less, other times I think its really funny. At the end of the day, its good for everyone and does keep Blizzard honest. Now the hate dog pile afterwords, that is a different story... Nah the problem is it just seems to be such a polarizing issue, people are pretty much one extreme or the other. Though i guess that makes sense since only people with strong opinions about it would be the ones to discuss it on internet forums haha
The people on the other extreme are just flat-out wrong though, that being the difference here. They're not taking the stance for any rational reason, they're taking it because BLIZZ CAN DO NO WRONG or I DON'T LIKE DESTINY SO I SHOULD TAKE THE OPPOSITE STANCE. This is not in fact a matter of opinion, the decision is objectively bad for the tournament. "I don't mind it being on the same day" is a shitty opinion, because it doesn't take into account all the reasons why it's bad. "Oh it doesn't affect me" shows a complete lack of empathy and understanding. It affects people that matter and it will eventually affect you too in real, tangible ways that even your ignorance will begin to understand if this scene keeps getting kicked in the teeth by poor decisions.
I'm deadly serious when I say the only people who are ok with this either don't understand the issue or are too damn apathetic for their opinion to matter anyway.
|
On July 24 2013 02:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 22:13 theking1 wrote:totalbrit and destiny.Where would the sc2 community be without their continuous whining .At least totalbrit invests in the sc2 scene and knows how to attract viewers.Destiny on the other hand plays lol fulltime and still whines about blizzard .And now he somehow dragged liquidsheth out of all people in the qq/whine/rage group In a worse place than it would be if it were dominated by shitty Blizzard apologists who blindly agree with everything this company does despite it's bad decisions time and again. Let's all remember to get up tomorrow and be thankful that these people have no influence in the scene.
Unfortunatelly for you people who try to see the positive side of sc2 are few in number as these forums and reddit prove.The fact that you are only good at talking vulgariously to attract viewers proves why blizzard should not listen to whiny little people such as yourself who only are vulgarious in language because they are boring in everything else.That and the fact that blizzard and the sc2 scene gave you a job when you were broke and living with your parents at the age of 30 when no other scene accepts people such as yourself proves that the company and scene is not as bad as it seems.But the fact that you keep making money out of casting sc2 and still insult the company and the viewers of sc2 at the same time is something very unique to sc2.
People such as yourself who insult fans on forums is one of the reasons why i sometimes dislike the community.By tommorow I will have contacted all of your sponsors and the sponsors of your future tournaments and posted this image on reddit/facebook/my personal twitter and all other social media sites.I have already print screened it so editing it would be useless.
Man, you guys plagued WoW as well. Always using your thought-terminating cliches, claiming anything that didn't fit with your view was "whining". You're awful, really, self-destruction dullards that are so short-sighted they can't see the very thing they're enjoying is being damaged time and again by poor decisions from the people in control of it.
So forgive me if I think I might have earned the right to tell you to shut the fuck up.
HAhaha.You can not tell me to shut up.You are just a whiner.A pundit of games.Always having a negativeoppion on everything without knowing anything.The glenn Beck of esports.You have only achieved to milk the scene out of the money.The sc2 scene and blizzard games were the only scenes that gave you the chance of making a living out of playing videogames.And here you are on the forums cotinuing the "sc2 is dead bandwagon".I like sc2 the way it is and have nothing to gain by expressing my oppinion.You,just like destiny are a random pundit always spewing out negativity to attract the doomsayers and make more viewers on your twitch shows and youtube channel.You do not even believe half of the stuff you say you are just saying it to attract more viewers attracted to drama.Stay in the pundit boat.
|
On July 24 2013 02:29 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 02:24 Pazuzu wrote:On July 24 2013 02:21 Plansix wrote:On July 24 2013 02:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 23 2013 22:13 theking1 wrote:totalbrit and destiny.Where would the sc2 community be without their continuous whining .At least totalbrit invests in the sc2 scene and knows how to attract viewers.Destiny on the other hand plays lol fulltime and still whines about blizzard .And now he somehow dragged liquidsheth out of all people in the qq/whine/rage group In a worse place than it would be if it were dominated by shitty Blizzard apologists who blindly agree with everything this company does despite it's bad decisions time and again. Let's all remember to get up tomorrow and be thankful that these people have no influence in the scene. Oh come on TB, we said that you are good for the scene and like you. You just love to shoot from the hip a lot, mostly on twitter and reddit. Sometimes you hit dead on, other times you miss. Sometimes I wish you would do it less, other times I think its really funny. At the end of the day, its good for everyone and does keep Blizzard honest. Now the hate dog pile afterwords, that is a different story... Nah the problem is it just seems to be such a polarizing issue, people are pretty much one extreme or the other. Though i guess that makes sense since only people with strong opinions about it would be the ones to discuss it on internet forums haha The people on the other extreme are just flat-out wrong though, that being the difference here. They're not taking the stance for any rational reason, they're taking it because BLIZZ CAN DO NO WRONG or I DON'T LIKE DESTINY SO I SHOULD TAKE THE OPPOSITE STANCE. This is not in fact a matter of opinion, the decision is objectively bad for the tournament. "I don't mind it being on the same day" is a shitty opinion, because it doesn't take into account all the reasons why it's bad. "Oh it doesn't affect me" shows a complete lack of empathy and understanding. It affects people that matter and it will eventually affect you too in real, tangible ways that even your ignorance will begin to understand if this scene keeps getting kicked in the teeth by poor decisions. I'm deadly serious when I say the only people who are ok with this either don't understand the issue or are too damn apathetic for their opinion to matter anyway.
That isn't want people are saying at all, from reading the thread. Its most people just accepting that there aren't a lot of other options and the time is limited till Blizzcon. It would be nice if Blizzard planned this out better, but that is not what happened. What else should we do to express our displeasure beyond go "that sucks, wish it was a different weekend"?
Edit: All right, since you updated your post, I am going to update mine. Sorry people don't agree with you on the subject, but what is your solution with the other events. How would WCS be run on other weekends when all three production crews have other events they need to put on?
|
On July 24 2013 02:30 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 02:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 23 2013 22:13 theking1 wrote:totalbrit and destiny.Where would the sc2 community be without their continuous whining .At least totalbrit invests in the sc2 scene and knows how to attract viewers.Destiny on the other hand plays lol fulltime and still whines about blizzard .And now he somehow dragged liquidsheth out of all people in the qq/whine/rage group In a worse place than it would be if it were dominated by shitty Blizzard apologists who blindly agree with everything this company does despite it's bad decisions time and again. Let's all remember to get up tomorrow and be thankful that these people have no influence in the scene. Unfortunatelly for you people who try to see the positive side of sc2 are few in number as these forums and reddit prove.The fact that you are only good at talking vulgariously to attract viewers proves why blizzard should not listen to whiny little people such as yourself who only are vulgarious in language because they are boring in everything else.That and the fact that blizzard and the sc2 scene gave you a job when you were broke and living with your parents at the age of 30 when no other scene accepts people such as yourself proves that the company and scene is not as bad as it seems.But the fact that you keep making money out of casting sc2 and still insult the company and the viewers of sc2 at the same time is something very unique to sc2. People such as yourself who insult fans on forums is one of the reasons why i sometimes dislike the community.By tommorow I will have contacted all of your sponsors and the sponsors of your future tournaments and posted this image on reddit/facebook/my personal twitter and all other social media sites.I have already print screened it so editing it would be useless.
“Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people.” - Socrates.
That's you right now. Your concern is people being "nice" (regardless of the fact that you weren't from the outset by insulting myself and Destiny". My concern is getting shit done, your concern is bitching on forums about how people are mean on the internet.
"But the fact that you keep making money out of casting sc2
I have invested over $100,000 in Starcraft 2, I do not make money from Starcraft 2, I do the opposite. You do not know shit, stop talking.
By tommorow I will have contacted all of your sponsors and the sponsors of your future tournaments and posted this image on reddit/facebook/my personal twitter and all other social media sites.I have already print screened it so editing it would be useless."
And I look forward to having a good laugh with them at your expense you ignorant, toxic, ineffectual parasite.
|
On July 24 2013 02:30 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 02:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 23 2013 22:13 theking1 wrote:totalbrit and destiny.Where would the sc2 community be without their continuous whining .At least totalbrit invests in the sc2 scene and knows how to attract viewers.Destiny on the other hand plays lol fulltime and still whines about blizzard .And now he somehow dragged liquidsheth out of all people in the qq/whine/rage group In a worse place than it would be if it were dominated by shitty Blizzard apologists who blindly agree with everything this company does despite it's bad decisions time and again. Let's all remember to get up tomorrow and be thankful that these people have no influence in the scene. Unfortunatelly for you people who try to see the positive side of sc2 are few in number as these forums and reddit prove.
Why would you TRY to see any side of anything?
Being selective about what you see isn't doing anybody any favors.
|
What else should we do to express our displeasure beyond go "that sucks, wish it was a different weekend"?
Tell Blizzard to get their fucking act together? WCS has been one misstep after another. It's not like this is the first evidence we have that Blizzard's planning/approach to WCS is absolutely terrible.
|
On July 24 2013 02:29 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 02:24 Pazuzu wrote:On July 24 2013 02:21 Plansix wrote:On July 24 2013 02:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 23 2013 22:13 theking1 wrote:totalbrit and destiny.Where would the sc2 community be without their continuous whining .At least totalbrit invests in the sc2 scene and knows how to attract viewers.Destiny on the other hand plays lol fulltime and still whines about blizzard .And now he somehow dragged liquidsheth out of all people in the qq/whine/rage group In a worse place than it would be if it were dominated by shitty Blizzard apologists who blindly agree with everything this company does despite it's bad decisions time and again. Let's all remember to get up tomorrow and be thankful that these people have no influence in the scene. Oh come on TB, we said that you are good for the scene and like you. You just love to shoot from the hip a lot, mostly on twitter and reddit. Sometimes you hit dead on, other times you miss. Sometimes I wish you would do it less, other times I think its really funny. At the end of the day, its good for everyone and does keep Blizzard honest. Now the hate dog pile afterwords, that is a different story... Nah the problem is it just seems to be such a polarizing issue, people are pretty much one extreme or the other. Though i guess that makes sense since only people with strong opinions about it would be the ones to discuss it on internet forums haha The people on the other extreme are just flat-out wrong though, that being the difference here. They're not taking the stance for any rational reason, they're taking it because BLIZZ CAN DO NO WRONG or I DON'T LIKE DESTINY SO I SHOULD TAKE THE OPPOSITE STANCE. This is not in fact a matter of opinion, the decision is objectively bad for the tournament.
I agree that the decision to hold it this weekend was not a good one, I don't think anyone is contesting that (for obvious reasons). However, it's the jump from Blizz making a bad/inconvenient decision to another 'SC2 is dying repent ye sins' thread that I think is a little out of touch. As you are someone who's highly involved in the community/teams etc I can only imagine how frustrating it is to deal with poor business choices from Blizz, but much of the hate and anger in this thread is going far beyond "dammit blizzard you made a poor decision," and it's just as negative/harmful as the types of people you mentioned in your post
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
