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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
On June 09 2013 21:11 Magbane wrote: You should check the dictionary for the word "best". : excelling all others <the best student> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/best "But no one can be the best student because they would have to be the best in every single subject every single time at every single school!" See how that argument fails? | ||
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NicksonReyes
Philippines4431 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://img.dailygame.co.kr/news/201009/attachments/20100915_215c4c2757c89d824d57dbc756185945.jpg) | ||
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Magbane
Finland95 Posts
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MasterOfPuppets
Romania6942 Posts
Hahaha nice. @sc2superfan101, of course his argument fails, all he's doing is squabbling over the semantics of a word whose meaning is relative and abstract in and of itself, instead of looking at the big picture On June 09 2013 21:16 Magbane wrote: I dont see your counter argument here So all you're doing is trying to win some imaginary internet argument instead of actually trying to prove a tangible point? Nice... | ||
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Magbane
Finland95 Posts
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MasterOfPuppets
Romania6942 Posts
On June 09 2013 21:19 Magbane wrote: There is nothing abstract or relative here. The question is, is flash or someone "the best rts player", and answer is absolutely no. Read my post on the previous page and refute what I said, if you're going to be so "absolute" about it. And yes, being the best is relative. You can never be best at anything without comparing yourself to others. If there's only one person doing some given thing, he's the best at it, no matter how poor he may objectively be. When you're the best in a much more competitive environment where everyone is trying to be the best, you're also objectively good, which means you should be the best in a less competitive, similar environment as well. | ||
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Magbane
Finland95 Posts
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Dingodile
4133 Posts
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Magbane
Finland95 Posts
On June 09 2013 21:24 Dingodile wrote: we dont have "the best rts player" and this will never happen. The same in sports. One is the best in the biggest rts/real game doesnt mean he is the best rts/real player, actually very simple to understand. Atleast someone understands this concept. | ||
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
On June 09 2013 21:24 Magbane wrote: Your argument has already been addressed. It just doesnt matter how big is the starcraft scene compared to others, if you cant replace best aoe player with best starcraft player, then this best starcraft player cannot possibly be the best rts player. This concept is very simple. What do you not understand about your definition of best being relative and that not everyone shares that particular criteria? Does flash exceed all other RTS players in money? Yes. Achievement? Yes. Fame... well maybe not Boxer, but excluding him and a few others... yes. Stats? Yes, or at least, one of the best. According to the definition given: he can be considered the best. He exceeds all other RTS players in many ways. Best of something =/= best in every single facet of that thing. Just like I can say Michael Jordan is the best basketball player, but maybe not the best defender of all time, or the best three-point shooter, or the best dunker. He is extremely good at all of those things, but he could be outclassed in one or two of them by a specialist player. It is not a fact that "best RTS player" means "best in every RTS". That is your opinion. | ||
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Magbane
Finland95 Posts
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MasterOfPuppets
Romania6942 Posts
On June 09 2013 21:24 Dingodile wrote: we dont have "the best rts player" and this will never happen. The same in sports. One is the best in the biggest rts/real game doesnt mean he is the best rts/real player, actually very simple to understand. No, the reason we don't have this in sports is owed to 2 factors: 1. Most sports are very different from one another making it very hard to be reasonably good at multiple sports at the same time. Pitching is baseball is completely different to shooting hoops in basketball, or kicking in football or hitting the puck in hockey and so on and so forth. Most RTS games are fairly interchangeable in terms of their mechanics however, with relatively minor differences. 2. There are many sports that are hugely competitive, with massive following, lots of amateur and casual players (see: high school and college football, basketball, baseball etc). In competitive gaming, the opposite is true, very few games can be considered even remotely prosperous. Which is why someone who has competed in the most cut-throat progaming environment and can afford to practice a lot more will surely reach the top level in similar games with a much smaller scene. On June 09 2013 21:31 Magbane wrote: Its unbelieveable how this simple concept is impossible to be understood by you guys, and then you keep going on with non-relevant "arguments". If you cant do better than that, the discussion is over. Listen kid, if you're not going to go into detail without simply dismissing everything as "lol this simple y u no understand lololo" then yeah, the discussion is over. You're only making a fool out of yourself, provided you actually hold these narrow-minded, childish beliefs. | ||
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
On June 09 2013 21:31 Magbane wrote: Its unbelieveable how this simple concept is impossible to be understood by you guys, and then you keep going on with non-relevant "arguments". If you cant do better than that, the discussion is over. Dude... I understand your argument. I disagree with your criteria for what constitutes "the best"... how can you not see that? Get over yourself. | ||
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AlternativeEgo
Sweden17309 Posts
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Squeegy
Finland1166 Posts
On June 09 2013 20:45 Magbane wrote: Read my previous post. Being the best rts player of all time, means that you could replace every rts players in the world with that person. You cant replace best aoe2 player with flash or innovation or anyone who is not good at aoe 2 etc. That's simply not true. You can't replace the best defender of all time with Gretzky, because Gretzky is not the best defender of all time, despite being the best hockey player of all time. You're mistaken about what it means to be the best. | ||
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Mefano
Sweden190 Posts
Anyway, seems they were right to put Innovation on top! | ||
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Magbane
Finland95 Posts
I am gonna try to explain one last time, if you dont understand it now you will never understand it. 1. amount of money earned is not relevant, it does not say anything about how good you are with other games, it just says that the scene of the game played is wealthy. 2. achievement? does winning gsl make you better aoe player? 3. fame? not all games are as popular, and "fame" is relative concept. Flash is not a big name in all scenes. 4. stats? does having 15-3 stats in proleague increase your stats in other games such as aoe2? "Best rts player" term would mean, that person who holds this title could replace EVERYONE in their respective games. Word "best" is relative on the otherhand, you can be "the best starcraft player", or "the best aoe player", but you cannot be best in all of them. Rts player is a general term which covers all rts players of all rts games in the world. Again, you guys should check the word "best" in the dictionary. | ||
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Magbane
Finland95 Posts
On June 09 2013 21:37 Squeegy wrote: That's simply not true. You can't replace the best defender of all time with Gretzky, because Gretzky is not the best defender of all time, despite being the best hockey player of all time. You're mistaken about what it means to be the best. He wasnt "the best ice hockey player". | ||
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MasterOfPuppets
Romania6942 Posts
But as it stands, that's a very petty argument to make that ignores any reasoning or evidence. What you're saying is basically "oh it didn't happen therefore it could never conceivably have happened". Let me tell you something, there has only been one player who changed from game to game outside of a single franchise and found reasonable success. Fatal1ty, aka Johnathan Wendel, was one of the best progamers in the western fps scene in the early early days. He started out as a Quake player, where he was quite good, and as interest began to rise in competitive gaming in the West, more tournaments were held for various other games (with insane prize money). Fatal1ty saw that he wasn't top dog in Quake anymore, and that there was easy money available in other scenes (because there weren't that many players playing, or because few could afford to practice hardcore) and switched to those games and became top dog there. And for this, he was considered the best progamer of all time at the time, and for many still is. I don't personally agree with his choices or his personality, but he saw the opportunity and took it, and remains one of the best earning progamers of all time. He was the only one to try this, because there was monetary incentive. Why would FlaSh dominate a lesser game, when he can dominate the hardest game and make 300k a year plus winnings? He could, but it's absurd that he would. On June 09 2013 21:43 Magbane wrote: Btw there is clear difference in being "potentially best at all rts games" and "being the best at all rts games". Also I question that flash could even be that dominative in other games, it is not quaranteed fact. I am gonna try to explain one last time, if you dont understand it now you will never understand it. 1. amount of money earned is not relevant, it does not say anything about how good you are with other games, it just says that the scene of the game played is wealthy. 2. achievement? does winning gsl make you better aoe player? 3. fame? not all games are as popular, and "fame" is relative concept. Flash is not a big name in all scenes. 4. stats? does having 15-3 stats in proleague increase your stats in other games such as aoe2? "Best rts player" term would mean, that person who holds this title could replace EVERYONE in their respective games. Word "best" is relative on the otherhand, you can be "the best starcraft player", or "the best aoe player", but you cannot be best in all of them. Rts player is a general term which covers all rts players of all rts games in the world. Again, you guys should check the word "best" in the dictionary. So all you can do is argue semantics? I don't know if there's a language barrier or you're simply so narrow-minded that you can't entertain this kind of speculative theorizing. I'm done here then. | ||
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Magbane
Finland95 Posts
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