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On June 09 2013 21:43 Magbane wrote:
Btw there is clear difference in being "potentially best at all rts games" and "being the best at all rts games". Also I question that flash could even be that dominative in other games, it is not quaranteed fact.
I am gonna try to explain one last time, if you dont understand it now you will never understand it.
1. amount of money earned is not relevant, it does not say anything about how good you are with other games, it just says that the scene of the game played is wealthy.
2. achievement? does winning gsl make you better aoe player?
3. fame? not all games are as popular, and "fame" is relative concept. Flash is not a big name in all scenes.
4. stats? does having 15-3 stats in proleague increase your stats in other games such as aoe2?
"Best rts player" term would mean, that person who holds this title could replace EVERYONE in their respective games. Word "best" is relative on the otherhand, you can be "the best starcraft player", or "the best aoe player", but you cannot be best in all of them. Best rts player is a general term which covers all rts players of all rts games in the world.
Again, you guys should check the word "best" in the dictionary.
Btw, there is a clear difference between "being the best at all rts games" and "being the best rts player"
Flash is an RTS player. He is considered the best in one game. He is also considered one of the best in another game. Could any other RTS players top that? No? Then he's better than everyone 
He might not be able to replace the best AoE2 player, but whoever that is, he most probably isn't also considered one of the best in another game unlike Flash so you can say that Flash is a better RTS player than him :D
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Don't bother Nickson, this one-day-old account doesn't believe in reasoning or logic, only in textbook definitions of abstract words and how to rigidly use them in shoddy arguments. ^^
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Its sad how people cant settle for "best starcraft player" title, they have to raise those players in to even higher status even if it does not make logically sense. Well, no wonder people call flash "god".
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Another problem are the national/regional interests.
NA: basketball > football
EU: football > basketball
EU football > ice hockey
Canada: ice hockey > football
...
the same with computer games.
korea: sc1 > wc3
china: wc3 >sc1
EU: CS1.6 > Crossfire
Asia: Crossfire > CS1.6
...
eidt:
On June 09 2013 22:01 Magbane wrote:
Its sad how people cant settle for "best starcraft player" title, they have to raise those players in to even higher status even if it does not make logically sense. Well, no wonder people call flash "god".
"best starcraft player" is not the problem. problem is that many think that the best of the biggest rts game = best rts player overall. The same in sports.
Who is better? Michale Jordan or Michael Schumacher? Or closer: Roger Federer vs Timo Boll (Tennis vs Table Tennis).
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Innovation is the undisputed best SC2 player in the world at the moment, pretty much every series he played was a stomp, where he's just looked a class above his opponent. The two games he lost to MVP were purely due to build order losses - he went for bio on a mech favoured map when he had a big lead, but the map made it too easy for MVP to turtle up and go for deathball. The other game he lost to MVP was because he gambled on a proxy marauder rush that did no damage. The three games he won, yes it was because his hellbat control is better than MVP.
Hellbat drop play in TvT actually requires an insane amount of skill. It just requires a hugh amount of multitasking, decision making, reaction time, unit splitting, precise position, and has a near limitless skill ceiling, and really differentiates the best from the rest. I love watching hellbat drops in TvT, just because usually for it to be effective, you need to combo multiple attacks, but also have the defense to react to the potential hellbat drops/min drops/ bio drops/ banshee which is why I think TvT is now a much more demanding matchup skillwise than it was previously. In the past, it was all about marine tank wars, and trying to contain your opponent, whilst trading efficiently, and going for a doom drop if there is an opportunity. Now it is more about harassing and defending harass, whilst teching and multitasking, and eventually out macro, or transition into sky terran :D
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Innovation pulled off quite the massive choke... hard to leave him at one.
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On June 09 2013 22:13 dirtydurb82 wrote:
Innovation pulled off quite the massive choke... hard to leave him at one.
Only to win a more prestigious title a week later...
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On June 09 2013 22:10 Lock0n wrote:
The two games he lost to MVP were purely due to build order losses - he went for bio on a mech favoured map when he had a big lead, but the map made it too easy for MVP to turtle up and go for deathball. The other game he lost to MVP was because he gambled on a proxy marauder rush that did no damage. The three games he won, yes it was because his hellbat control is better than MVP.
Wha... but.....what....
Build order loss? Going bio isn't a "build order", it was a style of play he went for. It's not like he flipped a coin and said "Well I'll go bio and hopefully he doesn't go mech" which would make no sense at all since most people play mech. I can 100% guarantee that Innovation was well aware of the fact that he was going bio on that map. The only "build order loss" in that game was the one that resulted in Mvp having 9 SCV's to Innovations' 30.
Jesus, your comment truly astounds me.
And it's funny that you say he only lost because he "gambled" on a marauder rush as if there is no gamble in rushing hellbat drops, and also how hellbat play requires an insane amount of skill (which I don't contest at all, obviously) as if other strategies don't.
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Hero is too overrated, he beat Flash, yes he did, but that was bo1 and cheese, cheese is pretty acceptable but it shouldn't count as skill, and he barely won WCS America, for being a top 10 he should have won that tournament easy, why do you think Revival was in the finals?
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On June 09 2013 22:36 Zaphid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 22:13 dirtydurb82 wrote:
Innovation pulled off quite the massive choke... hard to leave him at one. Only to win a more prestigious title a week later...
I don't know if it's more prestigious, weren't WCG Korea winners always valued higher than WCG global winners?
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United States97277 Posts
I guess it's subjective. Didn't people consider PartinG's win last year more prestigious than Creator's?
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IMO the PR should move this way after this weekend :
* Symbol gets 9th place
* HerO drops out of the 10
* Mvp comes in and earn an 8ish place
* sOs goes up
* roro goes down
* the rest stays the same way
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On June 09 2013 23:20 HonorZ wrote:
IMO the PR should move this way after this weekend :
* Symbol gets 9th place
* HerO drops out of the 10
* Mvp comes in and earn an 8ish place
* sOs goes up
* roro goes down
* the rest stays the same way
I suppose monk wants this to be a monthly installment.
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On June 09 2013 23:28 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 23:20 HonorZ wrote:
IMO the PR should move this way after this weekend :
* Symbol gets 9th place
* HerO drops out of the 10
* Mvp comes in and earn an 8ish place
* sOs goes up
* roro goes down
* the rest stays the same way I suppose monk wants this to be a monthly installment.
Yes of course, I was just speculating about what the current standings of the player could be following the season 1 finals. Since the OSL starts quite early this month, that order will assurely change, especially with new big names in Code S such as Jangbi !
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Poland3775 Posts
I sense Mvp will go up in next iteration. Also Symbol will go down and sOs will go up. INnoVation has proven his 1st spot.
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On June 09 2013 23:15 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 22:36 Zaphid wrote:On June 09 2013 22:13 dirtydurb82 wrote:
Innovation pulled off quite the massive choke... hard to leave him at one. Only to win a more prestigious title a week later... I don't know if it's more prestigious, weren't WCG Korea winners always valued higher than WCG global winners?
I don't think so
innovation #1 baby, haters gonna hate.
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Putting HerO ahead of MVP.
Dat TL bias 
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so much rage and argument in what best means...
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On June 10 2013 02:44 mostwanted wrote:
so much rage and argument in what best means...
INnoVation barely edged out MVP.
MvP clearly top 5!!!
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On June 09 2013 22:10 Lock0n wrote:
Innovation is the undisputed best SC2 player in the world at the moment, pretty much every series he played was a stomp, where he's just looked a class above his opponent. The two games he lost to MVP were purely due to build order losses - he went for bio on a mech favoured map when he had a big lead, but the map made it too easy for MVP to turtle up and go for deathball. The other game he lost to MVP was because he gambled on a proxy marauder rush that did no damage. The three games he won, yes it was because his hellbat control is better than MVP.
Hellbat drop play in TvT actually requires an insane amount of skill. It just requires a hugh amount of multitasking, decision making, reaction time, unit splitting, precise position, and has a near limitless skill ceiling, and really differentiates the best from the rest. I love watching hellbat drops in TvT, just because usually for it to be effective, you need to combo multiple attacks, but also have the defense to react to the potential hellbat drops/min drops/ bio drops/ banshee which is why I think TvT is now a much more demanding matchup skillwise than it was previously. In the past, it was all about marine tank wars, and trying to contain your opponent, whilst trading efficiently, and going for a doom drop if there is an opportunity. Now it is more about harassing and defending harass, whilst teching and multitasking, and eventually out macro, or transition into sky terran :D
Like game 4 isn't a BO loss for Mvp (mine drop < hellbat drop). Game 5 he lost because he donated a bunch of SCVs to hellbat. I watch all the games, and it wasn't as pretty as you seem to make it. Marine tank war have produced a majority of epic games in SC2, and it hasn't happen with hellbats.
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EPT
