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On May 29 2013 15:52 willstertben wrote:
so why all that buff to terran and protoss drop which were used all the time before buffs too when zerg drop is still ____FUCKING USELESS AND NOBODY USES IT EVER_____. why does it have to cost 300/300 (overlord speed) and like 20 min research time and lair tech?
It's not useless, it's just underused as hell.
Btw. this reminds me of the old Fruitdealer Baneling drops on the armies...
Good old times :'-)
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On May 29 2013 16:02 EleanorRIgby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 15:24 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Anyway back to warp prism buffs, I do think it's worth testing and protoss should have something that really rewards skill like that. Protoss should never catch medivacs either unless the terran screws up so it's only fair to give protoss something similar. Can't be that hard to make a viking or two if you really feel like the warp prism is causing too much trouble.
The problem I can see are PvZ all ins though. Each one of those is gonna have a prism now. but its 200 minerals for a dropship that can warp in a bunch of units and no terran unit can catch it other then stim marines but they cant fly. 200 minerals for something like this is absurd
in a game with marines you are not allowed to talk about absurd costefficiency relations.
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On May 29 2013 14:29 whetherby wrote:
How about the opposite of a recall. Instead of bring back units, have a nexus ability to teleport units somewhere. Kinda plays in with the warp (prism) and the blink of the protoss. (also kinda something like the chrono in RA2)
That's a long description of the Arbiter. I wish we would see it back too!
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On May 29 2013 15:55 willstertben wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 15:53 padfoota wrote:On May 29 2013 15:52 willstertben wrote:
so why all that buff to terran and protoss drop which were used all the time before buffs too when zerg drop is still ____FUCKING USELESS AND NOBODY USES IT EVER_____. why does it have to cost 300/300 (overlord speed) and like 20 min research time and lair tech? Because you guys have nydus :/ haha nydus is even worse. it can be killed by fucking workers before it goes down and it needs like 10 min to pop out 10 lings (lings are the only unit worth 'dropping')
well once zerg researches their ovies they instantly have like 10 dropships that dont cost supply, more then fair trade if you ask me.
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On May 29 2013 15:52 willstertben wrote:
so why all that buff to terran and protoss drop which were used all the time before buffs too when zerg drop is still ____FUCKING USELESS AND NOBODY USES IT EVER_____. why does it have to cost 300/300 (overlord speed) and like 20 min research time and lair tech?
Because after spending 300/300 you have available like 20 transport ships, which are essentially free (you also need them for supply, so you are not spending more money to be able to drop)
And Nydus cost money because it can instantly teleport your whole army thought the map. Make them free and I would just spam nydus for creep spread and map control.
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On May 29 2013 16:02 EleanorRIgby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 15:24 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Anyway back to warp prism buffs, I do think it's worth testing and protoss should have something that really rewards skill like that. Protoss should never catch medivacs either unless the terran screws up so it's only fair to give protoss something similar. Can't be that hard to make a viking or two if you really feel like the warp prism is causing too much trouble.
The problem I can see are PvZ all ins though. Each one of those is gonna have a prism now. but its 200 minerals for a dropship that can warp in a bunch of units and no terran unit can catch it other then stim marines but they cant fly. 200 minerals for something like this is absurd
Actually stim marines cant catch it once it passes terrain - which is how you use a dropship. Its actually doing damage if it doesnt die to marines after they stim.
But no this was never a new problem. Now its a problem of having them super early in conjunction with the allins toss already has.
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On May 29 2013 16:02 syno wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 15:52 willstertben wrote:
so why all that buff to terran and protoss drop which were used all the time before buffs too when zerg drop is still ____FUCKING USELESS AND NOBODY USES IT EVER_____. why does it have to cost 300/300 (overlord speed) and like 20 min research time and lair tech? It's not useless, it's just underused as hell. Btw. this reminds me of the old Fruitdealer Baneling drops on the armies... Good old times :'-)
people have tried using zerg drops in the past. then they stopped. you know why?
cause it's useless.
baneling drops ontop of armies don't work anymore by the way. that got changed years ago god knows why.
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On May 29 2013 16:04 EleanorRIgby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 15:55 willstertben wrote:On May 29 2013 15:53 padfoota wrote:On May 29 2013 15:52 willstertben wrote:
so why all that buff to terran and protoss drop which were used all the time before buffs too when zerg drop is still ____FUCKING USELESS AND NOBODY USES IT EVER_____. why does it have to cost 300/300 (overlord speed) and like 20 min research time and lair tech? Because you guys have nydus :/ haha nydus is even worse. it can be killed by fucking workers before it goes down and it needs like 10 min to pop out 10 lings (lings are the only unit worth 'dropping') well once zerg researches their ovies they instantly have like 10 dropships that dont cost supply, more then fair trade if you ask me.
if it was then people would be dropping as zerg, don't you think?
On May 29 2013 16:05 Eviscerador wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 15:52 willstertben wrote:
so why all that buff to terran and protoss drop which were used all the time before buffs too when zerg drop is still ____FUCKING USELESS AND NOBODY USES IT EVER_____. why does it have to cost 300/300 (overlord speed) and like 20 min research time and lair tech? Because after spending 300/300 you have available like 20 transport ships, which are essentially free (you also need them for supply, so you are not spending more money to be able to drop) And Nydus cost money because it can instantly teleport your whole army thought the map. Make them free and I would just spam nydus for creep spread and map control.
if it was so good then people would be dropping as zerg, don't you think?
also who said nydus should be free? do you realize how long it actually takes for a nydus to pop out enough lings to pose a threat? (again, lings are the only units worth 'dropping otherwise your army will be too small') do you know that by pulling workers and right clicking the nydus you kill it before it even gets up?
therefore it's useless as a harass option.
drop on the other hand has potential, but it just takes too damn long and is too expensive.
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On May 29 2013 16:06 willstertben wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 16:02 syno wrote:On May 29 2013 15:52 willstertben wrote:
so why all that buff to terran and protoss drop which were used all the time before buffs too when zerg drop is still ____FUCKING USELESS AND NOBODY USES IT EVER_____. why does it have to cost 300/300 (overlord speed) and like 20 min research time and lair tech? It's not useless, it's just underused as hell. Btw. this reminds me of the old Fruitdealer Baneling drops on the armies... Good old times :'-) people have tried using zerg drops in the past. then they stopped. you know why? cause it's useless. baneling drops ontop of armies don't work anymore by the way. that got changed years ago god knows why.
its much easier and cheaper to nydus then it is to use the units that are supposed to be camping parts of the map for map control purposes all fly to one spot, risking it being scouted etc etc. Doom drops were all the rage back in WoL vs mech tho.
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Its a test map, if its no good they wont patch it. How ever its always nice to see another races perspective on these thing (talking about the ones who know what they are talking about) im going to play the test map instead of theory crafting.
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Austria24417 Posts
On May 29 2013 16:02 EleanorRIgby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 15:24 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Anyway back to warp prism buffs, I do think it's worth testing and protoss should have something that really rewards skill like that. Protoss should never catch medivacs either unless the terran screws up so it's only fair to give protoss something similar. Can't be that hard to make a viking or two if you really feel like the warp prism is causing too much trouble.
The problem I can see are PvZ all ins though. Each one of those is gonna have a prism now. but its 200 minerals for a dropship that can warp in a bunch of units and no terran unit can catch it other then stim marines but they cant fly. 200 minerals for something like this is absurd
It's honestly not if you consider that medivacs are always part of the terran army anyway - terran doesn't go out of their way and basically get drop potential + healing of said drops as a byproduct.
Protoss doesn't just make a warp prism. They go out of their way to make one and still have to choose when to warp in aggressively/defensively. And seriously, a viking might not be able to catch it but it sure does prevent it from moving in + doing a warpin round.
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On May 29 2013 16:06 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 16:02 EleanorRIgby wrote:On May 29 2013 15:24 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Anyway back to warp prism buffs, I do think it's worth testing and protoss should have something that really rewards skill like that. Protoss should never catch medivacs either unless the terran screws up so it's only fair to give protoss something similar. Can't be that hard to make a viking or two if you really feel like the warp prism is causing too much trouble.
The problem I can see are PvZ all ins though. Each one of those is gonna have a prism now. but its 200 minerals for a dropship that can warp in a bunch of units and no terran unit can catch it other then stim marines but they cant fly. 200 minerals for something like this is absurd Actually stim marines cant catch it once it passes terrain - which is how you use a dropship. Its actually doing damage if it doesnt die to marines after they stim. But no this was never a new problem. Now its a problem of having them super early in conjunction with the allins toss already has.
thats why i said marines cant fly..
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On May 29 2013 16:06 willstertben wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 16:02 syno wrote:On May 29 2013 15:52 willstertben wrote:
so why all that buff to terran and protoss drop which were used all the time before buffs too when zerg drop is still ____FUCKING USELESS AND NOBODY USES IT EVER_____. why does it have to cost 300/300 (overlord speed) and like 20 min research time and lair tech? It's not useless, it's just underused as hell. Btw. this reminds me of the old Fruitdealer Baneling drops on the armies... Good old times :'-) people have tried using zerg drops in the past. then they stopped. you know why? cause it's useless. baneling drops ontop of armies don't work anymore by the way. that got changed years ago god knows why.
How exactly is a banelingdrop in a mineral line useless?
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On May 29 2013 16:08 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 16:06 willstertben wrote:On May 29 2013 16:02 syno wrote:On May 29 2013 15:52 willstertben wrote:
so why all that buff to terran and protoss drop which were used all the time before buffs too when zerg drop is still ____FUCKING USELESS AND NOBODY USES IT EVER_____. why does it have to cost 300/300 (overlord speed) and like 20 min research time and lair tech? It's not useless, it's just underused as hell. Btw. this reminds me of the old Fruitdealer Baneling drops on the armies... Good old times :'-) people have tried using zerg drops in the past. then they stopped. you know why? cause it's useless. baneling drops ontop of armies don't work anymore by the way. that got changed years ago god knows why. its much easier and cheaper to nydus then it is to use the units that are supposed to be camping parts of the map for map control purposes all fly to one spot, risking it being scouted etc etc. Doom drops were all the rage back in WoL vs mech tho.
do you realize how long it actually takes for a nydus to pop out enough lings to pose a threat? (again, lings are the only units worth 'dropping otherwise your army will be too small') do you know that by pulling workers and right clicking the nydus you kill it before it even gets up?
therefore it's useless as a harass option.
dropping is a staple for terran and protoss play while for zerg it's a extremely situational option (for example against mech as you mentioned) AT BEST. those 300 gas are still better invested in quicker vipers.
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On May 29 2013 16:13 syno wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 16:06 willstertben wrote:On May 29 2013 16:02 syno wrote:On May 29 2013 15:52 willstertben wrote:
so why all that buff to terran and protoss drop which were used all the time before buffs too when zerg drop is still ____FUCKING USELESS AND NOBODY USES IT EVER_____. why does it have to cost 300/300 (overlord speed) and like 20 min research time and lair tech? It's not useless, it's just underused as hell. Btw. this reminds me of the old Fruitdealer Baneling drops on the armies... Good old times :'-) people have tried using zerg drops in the past. then they stopped. you know why? cause it's useless. baneling drops ontop of armies don't work anymore by the way. that got changed years ago god knows why. How exactly is a banelingdrop in a mineral line useless?
Runbys are soooooo much cheaper, and you can do more damages.
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On May 29 2013 16:13 syno wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 16:06 willstertben wrote:On May 29 2013 16:02 syno wrote:On May 29 2013 15:52 willstertben wrote:
so why all that buff to terran and protoss drop which were used all the time before buffs too when zerg drop is still ____FUCKING USELESS AND NOBODY USES IT EVER_____. why does it have to cost 300/300 (overlord speed) and like 20 min research time and lair tech? It's not useless, it's just underused as hell. Btw. this reminds me of the old Fruitdealer Baneling drops on the armies... Good old times :'-) people have tried using zerg drops in the past. then they stopped. you know why? cause it's useless. baneling drops ontop of armies don't work anymore by the way. that got changed years ago god knows why. How exactly is a banelingdrop in a mineral line useless?
because people pull away their workers and you can't catch them.
also it's a pretty big commitment outside of lategame leaving you very vulnerable to allins.
+ the banelings are dead so there is no immidiate threat of a follow up drop or losing buildings or something.
and in lategame those 200/200 (you should have overlord speed by then anyway) are still better invested in a stronger army or a faster upgrade/tech than a pretty bad shot at killing a few workers that are replenished pretty quickly.
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It sounds like an OK change on paper but I doubt this will help protoss players' consistency at the pro level. If anything this will add even more randomness. (sentry FF, DTs, immortals)
At least this can make protoss early game stronger, I suppose. Late game it doesn't make a difference since everyone gets colossi anyway. It *might* have an effect on protoss players' mindset going into the game, and that is good. But I am weary of this buff causing other races' buffs as a result.
It doesn't hurt to try, though, at this time. Things are still quite unstable in HOTS anyway.
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WP speed is definitely a buff that may have a large influence on metagame. It makes drops and harass much simpler. And it also provides some more mid-game micro options. I think we will see more warp prism immortal attacks.
I really like the change. It does not directly affect my own game problems (I will still struggle with hellbats and mutas;) but I can see how it can be used to my advantage.
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Well, Z hoping free OV speed knows it's not going to happen.  The most you can hope for is reduced cost or reduced upgrade time.
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if drops were 100/100 and same research time as overlord speed that would already be enough to make dropping a very viable option, giving some MUCH needed harass potential to zerg.
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EPT
