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On May 29 2013 16:16 willstertben wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 16:08 padfoota wrote:On May 29 2013 16:06 willstertben wrote:On May 29 2013 16:02 syno wrote:On May 29 2013 15:52 willstertben wrote:
so why all that buff to terran and protoss drop which were used all the time before buffs too when zerg drop is still ____FUCKING USELESS AND NOBODY USES IT EVER_____. why does it have to cost 300/300 (overlord speed) and like 20 min research time and lair tech? It's not useless, it's just underused as hell. Btw. this reminds me of the old Fruitdealer Baneling drops on the armies... Good old times :'-) people have tried using zerg drops in the past. then they stopped. you know why? cause it's useless. baneling drops ontop of armies don't work anymore by the way. that got changed years ago god knows why. its much easier and cheaper to nydus then it is to use the units that are supposed to be camping parts of the map for map control purposes all fly to one spot, risking it being scouted etc etc. Doom drops were all the rage back in WoL vs mech tho. do you realize how long it actually takes for a nydus to pop out enough lings to pose a threat? (again, lings are the only units worth 'dropping otherwise your army will be too small') do you know that by pulling workers and right clicking the nydus you kill it before it even gets up? therefore it's useless as a harass option. dropping is a staple for terran and protoss play while for zerg it's a extremely situational option (for example against mech as you mentioned) AT BEST. those 300 gas are still better invested in quicker vipers.
..."lings are the only units worth dropping otherwise your army will be too small"
Why are you bothering with drops then if you can just do runbys -_-. Im simply pointing out why people dont want to use overlords as drop options when you can simply use nydus, as Symbol has shown.
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On May 29 2013 16:04 PVJ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 14:29 whetherby wrote:
How about the opposite of a recall. Instead of bring back units, have a nexus ability to teleport units somewhere. Kinda plays in with the warp (prism) and the blink of the protoss. (also kinda something like the chrono in RA2) That's a long description of the Arbiter. I wish we would see it back too!
Throw Stasis Field, Recall, and passive cloak onto the warp prism and we'll call it even.
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Imagine something like "You can warp units from under a warp prism to another warp prism"
Wouldnt that promote multitasking ?
That'd be stupidly strong but so fun to watch :D
Anyway, if the warpprism still cost 200 minerals only after such a buff, it will be a bit too strong. Give it at least a gas cost.
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On May 29 2013 16:38 Insoleet wrote:
Imagine something like "You can warp units from under a warp prism to another warp prism"
Send your entire army into your opponent's base, then you can retreat when their army comes back.
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This is silly, WCS Korea just started off this season this season with very few protoss players, they started with 8 in the Ro32 and had 2 in the Ro8 and 1 in the Ro4. The ones who took part did just fine, and when Parting and sOs lost it was only by a single game. Out of the 12 who qualified from Code A exactly one third were protoss.
Europe was skewed because it had 4 Korean terrans. I mean you just don't expect SaSe to be able to beat MVP.
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On May 29 2013 16:32 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 16:04 PVJ wrote:On May 29 2013 14:29 whetherby wrote:
How about the opposite of a recall. Instead of bring back units, have a nexus ability to teleport units somewhere. Kinda plays in with the warp (prism) and the blink of the protoss. (also kinda something like the chrono in RA2) That's a long description of the Arbiter. I wish we would see it back too! Throw Stasis Field, Recall, and passive cloak onto the warp prism and we'll call it even.
And make it require fleet beacon and cost extra 350 gases lol
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On May 29 2013 16:31 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 16:16 willstertben wrote:On May 29 2013 16:08 padfoota wrote:On May 29 2013 16:06 willstertben wrote:On May 29 2013 16:02 syno wrote:On May 29 2013 15:52 willstertben wrote:
so why all that buff to terran and protoss drop which were used all the time before buffs too when zerg drop is still ____FUCKING USELESS AND NOBODY USES IT EVER_____. why does it have to cost 300/300 (overlord speed) and like 20 min research time and lair tech? It's not useless, it's just underused as hell. Btw. this reminds me of the old Fruitdealer Baneling drops on the armies... Good old times :'-) people have tried using zerg drops in the past. then they stopped. you know why? cause it's useless. baneling drops ontop of armies don't work anymore by the way. that got changed years ago god knows why. its much easier and cheaper to nydus then it is to use the units that are supposed to be camping parts of the map for map control purposes all fly to one spot, risking it being scouted etc etc. Doom drops were all the rage back in WoL vs mech tho. do you realize how long it actually takes for a nydus to pop out enough lings to pose a threat? (again, lings are the only units worth 'dropping otherwise your army will be too small') do you know that by pulling workers and right clicking the nydus you kill it before it even gets up? therefore it's useless as a harass option. dropping is a staple for terran and protoss play while for zerg it's a extremely situational option (for example against mech as you mentioned) AT BEST. those 300 gas are still better invested in quicker vipers. ..."lings are the only units worth dropping otherwise your army will be too small" Why are you bothering with drops then if you can just do runbys -_-.
because of walloffs.
i don't want to discuss nydus as a harassment tool by the way cause that's just not what it is.
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On May 29 2013 16:45 SsDrKosS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 16:32 LegalLord wrote:On May 29 2013 16:04 PVJ wrote:On May 29 2013 14:29 whetherby wrote:
How about the opposite of a recall. Instead of bring back units, have a nexus ability to teleport units somewhere. Kinda plays in with the warp (prism) and the blink of the protoss. (also kinda something like the chrono in RA2) That's a long description of the Arbiter. I wish we would see it back too! Throw Stasis Field, Recall, and passive cloak onto the warp prism and we'll call it even. And make it require fleet beacon and cost extra 350 gases lol
Still more than worth it.
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On May 29 2013 16:43 Willzzz wrote:
This is silly, WCS Korea just started off this season this season with very few protoss players, they started with 8 in the Ro32 and had 2 in the Ro8 and 1 in the Ro4. The ones who took part did just fine, and when Parting and sOs lost it was only by a single game. Out of the 12 who qualified from Code A exactly one third were protoss.
Europe was skewed because it had 4 Korean terrans. I mean you just don't expect SaSe to be able to beat MVP.
yup. also: protoss DOMINATES pro league hard.
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Austria24422 Posts
On May 29 2013 16:45 SsDrKosS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 16:32 LegalLord wrote:On May 29 2013 16:04 PVJ wrote:On May 29 2013 14:29 whetherby wrote:
How about the opposite of a recall. Instead of bring back units, have a nexus ability to teleport units somewhere. Kinda plays in with the warp (prism) and the blink of the protoss. (also kinda something like the chrono in RA2) That's a long description of the Arbiter. I wish we would see it back too! Throw Stasis Field, Recall, and passive cloak onto the warp prism and we'll call it even. And make it require fleet beacon and cost extra 350 gases lol
I see what you did there.
And protoss has had record low numbers in GSL and other leagues every since the end of WoL and nothing's changing. Protoss is good in Bo1 format like PL because of the huge variety of tricks, mindgames and one-time-only builds.
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I think the reason why warp prism was slow and required additional research is to balance its cost/usefulness in the field.
So I think warp prism cost should be adjusted in a proper scale (yep. make it costs some gas. even observer needs gas)
additional point: how about observer speed/speed upgrade? I barely see people upgrade their observer speed...
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So many people are saying Zergs have free drop-ships.. 100 minerals, no supply.
Whereas that's true you need to keep in mind that Zergs don't have anything worth dropping. I made a post about in this thread somewhere, might as well dig that up.
Here it is: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18739939
It's a point that many others have brought up as well.
It's not to say Zerg doesn't have good harass options. That's just not true, they do have Mutalisks as well as ling which can run in on open maps like Star Station. But Zerg drops, unless they're doom drops, aren't really that great in terms of harass.
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On May 29 2013 16:50 SsDrKosS wrote:
I think the reason why warp prism was slow and required additional research is to balance its cost/usefulness in the field.
So I think warp prism cost should be adjusted in a proper scale (yep. make it costs some gas. even observer needs gas)
additional point: how about observer speed/speed upgrade? I barely see people upgrade their observer speed...
People don't upgrade observer speed in the beggining because you're short on gas, not because it's useless. It's waaaaay more upgraded than the medivac energy upgrade. And I think most good protoss upgrade it when they begin to have some spare money, if they don't forget 
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On May 29 2013 16:47 willstertben wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 16:31 padfoota wrote:On May 29 2013 16:16 willstertben wrote:On May 29 2013 16:08 padfoota wrote:On May 29 2013 16:06 willstertben wrote:On May 29 2013 16:02 syno wrote:On May 29 2013 15:52 willstertben wrote:
so why all that buff to terran and protoss drop which were used all the time before buffs too when zerg drop is still ____FUCKING USELESS AND NOBODY USES IT EVER_____. why does it have to cost 300/300 (overlord speed) and like 20 min research time and lair tech? It's not useless, it's just underused as hell. Btw. this reminds me of the old Fruitdealer Baneling drops on the armies... Good old times :'-) people have tried using zerg drops in the past. then they stopped. you know why? cause it's useless. baneling drops ontop of armies don't work anymore by the way. that got changed years ago god knows why. its much easier and cheaper to nydus then it is to use the units that are supposed to be camping parts of the map for map control purposes all fly to one spot, risking it being scouted etc etc. Doom drops were all the rage back in WoL vs mech tho. do you realize how long it actually takes for a nydus to pop out enough lings to pose a threat? (again, lings are the only units worth 'dropping otherwise your army will be too small') do you know that by pulling workers and right clicking the nydus you kill it before it even gets up? therefore it's useless as a harass option. dropping is a staple for terran and protoss play while for zerg it's a extremely situational option (for example against mech as you mentioned) AT BEST. those 300 gas are still better invested in quicker vipers. ..."lings are the only units worth dropping otherwise your army will be too small" Why are you bothering with drops then if you can just do runbys -_-. because of walloffs. i don't want to discuss nydus as a harassment tool by the way cause that's just not what it is.
Are you saying that nydus is not meant to be harassment tool or it is so terrible to be harrassment?
Nydus worms should shine its light one day...
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Warp prism doesn't even cost gas. It's a mineral-only harassment unit that can warp in mineral-only zealots, allowing the toss to trade minerals for workers, infrastructure, mining time and units. Because of the fact it doesnt cost any crucial gas, the need to get a speed upgarde is justified. In fact, the fact it already ahs an upgrade available makes it very good.
Besides, toss already has very good harasment versus zerg in the use of air to snipe oevrlords, queens, drones, forcing spores, etc, and remmeber zerg has no nexus cannon! the ability to warp in zealots anywhere on the map already gives enough to strike at orbital-based expansions from T. T almost always has to make its thrid in orbital to keep up with protoss' observer based vision. Because of the availability of harassment potential, the prism buff is further invalidated.
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On May 29 2013 16:55 Incognoto wrote:
So many people are saying Zergs have free drop-ships.. 100 minerals, no supply.
Whereas that's true you need to keep in mind that Zergs don't have anything worth dropping.
I can only imagine how annoying it would be for a T of P (in the lategame), if all of the sudden there are like 20-30 Lings in your main, destroying pylons, maybe your robo bay aswell.
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Now if only they buffed overlord speed while drops are researched, removed this buff and added a shield battery in the prism while its in warp mode that would be sex :D
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On May 29 2013 16:55 kubiks wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 16:50 SsDrKosS wrote:
I think the reason why warp prism was slow and required additional research is to balance its cost/usefulness in the field.
So I think warp prism cost should be adjusted in a proper scale (yep. make it costs some gas. even observer needs gas)
additional point: how about observer speed/speed upgrade? I barely see people upgrade their observer speed... People don't upgrade observer speed in the beggining because you're short on gas, not because it's useless. It's waaaaay more upgraded than the medivac energy upgrade. And I think most good protoss upgrade it when they begin to have some spare money, if they don't forget
Yep it is certainly better than some upgrades like making auto turret goes longer...
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On May 29 2013 16:58 SsDrKosS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 16:47 willstertben wrote:On May 29 2013 16:31 padfoota wrote:On May 29 2013 16:16 willstertben wrote:On May 29 2013 16:08 padfoota wrote:On May 29 2013 16:06 willstertben wrote:On May 29 2013 16:02 syno wrote:On May 29 2013 15:52 willstertben wrote:
so why all that buff to terran and protoss drop which were used all the time before buffs too when zerg drop is still ____FUCKING USELESS AND NOBODY USES IT EVER_____. why does it have to cost 300/300 (overlord speed) and like 20 min research time and lair tech? It's not useless, it's just underused as hell. Btw. this reminds me of the old Fruitdealer Baneling drops on the armies... Good old times :'-) people have tried using zerg drops in the past. then they stopped. you know why? cause it's useless. baneling drops ontop of armies don't work anymore by the way. that got changed years ago god knows why. its much easier and cheaper to nydus then it is to use the units that are supposed to be camping parts of the map for map control purposes all fly to one spot, risking it being scouted etc etc. Doom drops were all the rage back in WoL vs mech tho. do you realize how long it actually takes for a nydus to pop out enough lings to pose a threat? (again, lings are the only units worth 'dropping otherwise your army will be too small') do you know that by pulling workers and right clicking the nydus you kill it before it even gets up? therefore it's useless as a harass option. dropping is a staple for terran and protoss play while for zerg it's a extremely situational option (for example against mech as you mentioned) AT BEST. those 300 gas are still better invested in quicker vipers. ..."lings are the only units worth dropping otherwise your army will be too small" Why are you bothering with drops then if you can just do runbys -_-. because of walloffs. i don't want to discuss nydus as a harassment tool by the way cause that's just not what it is. Are you saying that nydus is not meant to be harassment tool or it is so terrible to be harrassment? Nydus worms should shine its light one day...
how the fuck will nydus worms "shine its light one day", when it's competing with boostervacs?
I mean, what is the attention needed to spot drops on the minimap and keep track of them while they boost over your stuff and keep units at every possible place they can reach faster than your army?
And what is the attention needed to spot a static point in your base and send anything - ANYTHING like in WORKERS - to deny that?
It's very simple. Every player that can deal with drops reasonable, laughs his ass off over nydusworms that try to go up in his base. The skill needed to defend nydus play outside of early allins is just laughable. And the ingame resources needed to try and pull them off is only worth it if you can guarantee them to go off (unlike something like a medivac, that is a great combat unit as well).
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On May 29 2013 17:00 CikaZombi wrote:
Now if only they buffed overlord speed while drops are researched, removed this buff and added a shield battery in the prism while its in warp mode that would be sex :D
Fine. Then gimme my Nydus worm's brothers back. Destroyer and creeper I guess.
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EPT
