EPTWarp prism speed buff, test map. 5.28.2013 - Page 39
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
xtyxtbx
United States53 Posts
| ||
|
SsDrKosS
330 Posts
On May 29 2013 17:05 Big J wrote: how the fuck will nydus worms "shine its light one day", when it's competing with boostervacs? I mean, what is the attention needed to spot drops on the minimap and keep track of them while they boost over your stuff and keep units at every possible place they can reach faster than your army? And what is the attention needed to spot a static point in your base and send anything - ANYTHING like in WORKERS - to deny that? It's very simple. Every player that can deal with drops reasonable, laughs his ass off over nydusworms that try to go up in his base. The skill needed to defend nydus play outside of early allins is just laughable. And the ingame resources needed to try and pull them off is only worth it if you can guarantee them to go off (unlike something like a medivac, that is a great combat unit as well). 10000+ Please make my worms useful... I'm not saying that no-supply worms are bad in its cost. But they are simply not cost-efficient... | ||
|
havok55
United States276 Posts
On May 29 2013 17:00 syno wrote: I can only imagine how annoying it would be for a T of P (in the lategame), if all of the sudden there are like 20-30 Lings in your main, destroying pylons, maybe your robo bay aswell. Yeah, zerg drops are not about quality, but quantity. All zerg units are worth dropping if you drop enough of them, which is why ALL your overlords turn into dropships after upgrade. | ||
|
Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On May 29 2013 17:00 syno wrote: I can only imagine how annoying it would be for a T of P (in the lategame), if all of the sudden there are like 20-30 Lings in your main, destroying pylons, maybe your robo bay aswell. Yeah that was in the link that I posted (that you edited out of your quote) that was my own post where I evoked that maybe zergling drops might be effective. But I mentioned the limitations of such a scenario in that post as well. @Havok, not really true. Roaches, Hydra, Swarm Host, banelings all cost gas, which means that they aren't nearly as expendable a unit as Marines or Zealots are. Only Roaches might be cost efficient considering they don't cost a lot of gas, but they don't have the damage output Zealots, Marines, Hellions, Marauders and Hellbats have. So it's not as great to drop them. Zerg have other harass options so it's not really a problem. It's the way they were designed. If zerg had a unit worth dropping on the same level as a Marine, it would probably be overpowered considering how many Overlords a zerg gets. | ||
|
willstertben
427 Posts
On May 29 2013 17:00 syno wrote: I can only imagine how annoying it would be for a T of P (in the lategame), if all of the sudden there are like 20-30 Lings in your main, destroying pylons, maybe your robo bay aswell. EXACTLY! now if only there was a good way to get them in there then that would be a very good and supply efficient harassment tool that doesn't weaken the zerg army substantially. problem is there really isn't one outside of endgame stalemate situations when investing 200/200 and so much time in researching drop upgrade doesn't actually hurt zerg. i wish zerg had staple dropping ability to punish out of position, overly aggressive/greedy opponents like the other races do. the mutalisk kind of fulfills that role BUT it's really really expensive and you have to commit to making mutas VERY heavily for them to be able to do any significant damage. | ||
|
Kim Hyuna
Korea (South)264 Posts
On May 29 2013 16:59 5unrise wrote: Warp prism doesn't even cost gas. It's a mineral-only harassment unit that can warp in mineral-only zealots, allowing the toss to trade minerals for workers, infrastructure, mining time and units. Because of the fact it doesnt cost any crucial gas, the need to get a speed upgarde is justified. In fact, the fact it already ahs an upgrade available makes it very good. Besides, toss already has very good harasment versus zerg in the use of air to snipe oevrlords, queens, drones, forcing spores, etc, and remmeber zerg has no nexus cannon! the ability to warp in zealots anywhere on the map already gives enough to strike at orbital-based expansions from T. T almost always has to make its thrid in orbital to keep up with protoss' observer based vision. Because of the availability of harassment potential, the prism buff is further invalidated. hahahahaha.. you considered phx as harassment units? It's pretty useless in late game. Look at terran speed medivac against Z for this case. Late game, i drop you to death while splitting my units in different waves. Protoss, split units and you're dead. Speed medivac not only good at harassment, it HEALS your unit and you can constantly produce 2 at a time. Facing huge hydra swarmhost combination, you NEED constant colos productions off from 2 robo without thinking of getting WP to harass. If you see most of the protoss match up recently, WP late game is almost non-existent. Most protosses opt to go for DTs instead. | ||
|
SsDrKosS
330 Posts
On May 29 2013 17:00 syno wrote: I can only imagine how annoying it would be for a T of P (in the lategame), if all of the sudden there are like 20-30 Lings in your main, destroying pylons, maybe your robo bay aswell. Skytoss. Think about it. | ||
|
ETisME
12683 Posts
On May 29 2013 16:05 Eviscerador wrote: Because after spending 300/300 you have available like 20 transport ships, which are essentially free (you also need them for supply, so you are not spending more money to be able to drop) And Nydus cost money because it can instantly teleport your whole army thought the map. Make them free and I would just spam nydus for creep spread and map control. instantly? lol try to see how long it takes to even unload 20 lings | ||
|
Kim Hyuna
Korea (South)264 Posts
The only way to stop huge lings runby is to get freaking tons of canon's. Skytoss is slow as fuck to deal with runbys. And it's almost impossible to split (again) just to deal with runbys. | ||
|
FirstGear
Australia185 Posts
| ||
|
syno
Switzerland150 Posts
Skytoss is slow, and Tempests and Voidrays kinda suck at killing zerglings. Or is your point that it's impossible to get Overlords in the opponents base when P is going skytoss? If yes, i higly doubt that, toss cant be everywhere. - edit - Kim was faster :l | ||
|
willstertben
427 Posts
On May 29 2013 17:15 Kim Hyuna wrote: hahahahaha.. you considered phx as harassment units? It's pretty useless in late game. Look at terran speed medivac against Z for this case. Late game, i drop you to death while splitting my units in different waves. Protoss, split units and you're dead. Speed medivac not only good at harassment, it HEALS your unit and you can constantly produce 2 at a time. Facing huge hydra swarmhost combination, you NEED constant colos productions off from 2 robo without thinking of getting WP to harass. If you see most of the protoss match up recently, WP late game is almost non-existent. Most protosses opt to go for DTs instead. warp prism harass is a very good tool against zerg, especially when they have swarm host compositions. are you kidding me? even the threat of warp prisms alone makes zerg invest in tons of static defense in all their bases. zealots + dt warpins can wreck entire bases in seconds if badly defended and force zerg to split up some anti harassment units as spines alone won't do against heavily upgraded units. | ||
|
SsDrKosS
330 Posts
On May 29 2013 17:18 Kim Hyuna wrote: The only way to stop huge lings runby is to get freaking tons of canon's. Skytoss is slow as fuck to deal with runbys. And it's almost impossible to split (again) just to deal with runbys. I was saying about incoming fully loaded overlords (esp in the middle of map) which takes long long time to unload, not run by... maybe whole army can't be anywhere but scout is always necessary for every race??? And overlord is slower than most of other units.... | ||
|
Kim Hyuna
Korea (South)264 Posts
Tech switch into Mutas (with life regen) is basically game ending if a P don't see it come even with one Stargate, And it forced P to turtle in base while mass expanding with spines to defend to build a bank. Look at recent PvZ, most P will just go for a base trade instead of securing fourth because there is no way to catch up with Z with the huge bank. In most cases, base race will normally favors Z. Look at the recent match up where Parting do a base race with Roro. | ||
|
willstertben
427 Posts
On May 29 2013 17:18 Kim Hyuna wrote: The only way to stop huge lings runby is to get freaking tons of canon's. Skytoss is slow as fuck to deal with runbys. And it's almost impossible to split (again) just to deal with runbys. you deal with runbys by having walls. | ||
|
willstertben
427 Posts
On May 29 2013 17:22 Kim Hyuna wrote: I don't understand why the QQ about Z drop capability. Tech switch into Mutas (with life regen) is basically game ending if a P don't see it come even with one Stargate, And it forced P to turtle in base while mass expanding with spines to defend to build a bank. Look at recent PvZ, most P will just go for a base trade instead of securing fourth because there is no way to catch up with Z with the huge bank. In most cases, base race will normally favors Z. Look at the recent match up where Parting do a base race with Roro. what does that have to do with drops? that's right, nothing. | ||
|
Champi
1422 Posts
go your hardest ;P | ||
|
Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On May 29 2013 17:25 willstertben wrote: what does that have to do with drops? that's right, nothing. His point is that it's pointless to whine about Zerg drop being under powered or underused when they have other stuff at their disposal. | ||
|
Kim Hyuna
Korea (South)264 Posts
| ||
|
Seiniyta
Belgium1815 Posts
On May 29 2013 17:30 Kim Hyuna wrote: Please blizzard, if you're looking or listening. Buff UNITS not buff WP.. Warp Prism as far as I know is classified as a unit. | ||
| ||
