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On May 29 2013 02:33 ReMiiX wrote:
I want medivacs to have speed boost all the time.
Seriously though, with the old buff on warp prism health this would be way way way to difficult to beat. Maybe if they dropped shield or health I could see the speed increase being fair.
I'd gladly have this change to see the prism go back to being a weak unit. Honestly the prism is pretty hard to kill even at the current state, thats if the protoss player is paying attention this unit just doesnt die.
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This is so good for spectators and players a like. As a high master/grandmaster Protoss player I will definately use warp prism harass throughout the entire game as a result of this. If the patch comes through ofcourse. It annoys me however that people say protoss all ins will be too strong. Look at pro level players. How many all ins do you see using a warp prism? Ok so vs zerg there is immortals and warp prisms...so now our warp prisms can live for longer? And verse other races what is there? Warp prism + 4 gate? please...
This should 100% go through. It will be great.
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On May 29 2013 17:53 willstertben wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 17:48 havok55 wrote:
People bringing up Zerg are missing one point. Zerg doesnt actually need drops or nydus at all. Those are just extra, usually less desirable, options for some gimmicky play.
Zerg have speedlings and mutas.
What's the Terran equivalent of 10 mutas in your main? Drops.
What's the Terran equivalent of 20 lings in your 3rd? Drops.
See the pattern? Terran relies on drops to do everything, which was why medivacs got the boosters. Protoss is in the same boat, although they also have proxy pylons that sort of work like ling runbys.
10 mutas in main will be cleaned up by turret + marines coming out of barracks and won't do any damage. 16 mutas with at least +1 will be able to do significant damage. that's 32 army supply and 1700/1700 compared to the cost of a drop which in turn does not affect your army strength that isn't really comparable. again, ling runbys to the 3rd are easily countered by walloffs and possibly a widow mine. (supply depot walls and often times one bunker with a marine inside at the 3rd were the norm in WOL). the other bases are pf so ling runbys are a nonfactor there. and i think as i have elaborated in my previous post that innovation tvz shows very clearly that zerg is in dire need some sort of reliable harassment potential that doesn't cost at least 1700/1700 and 32 army supply.
That post made no sense whatsoever. You reasoned that innovation lost because he didn't make walls, so he could be harassed, and he didn't make walls because he couldn't be harassed anyway. That makes no sense.
A single widow mine shouldn't come close to countering a ling ruby, and neither should a bunker with one marines inside. If you make my marines as fast as your speedlings, so I can do marine runbys, you may have faster droplords. Also 10 mutas in the main don't have to attack a turret that is being repaired while rallied marines kill them. Just come in, destroy a few buildings, get out.
Also zerg don't need harrasment as much. If someone in the strategy forums says something like: "The problem was that you didn't harass them, you let him macro freely, so then yeah you deserve to lose". How often have you read that being said about a ZvT, and how often about a TvZ? Terran needs to do something to keep zerg economy in check.
Finally: Really? In every league above silver zerg is overrepresented. In pretty much every major tournament* zerg is either overrepresented or at least not underrepresented. But because Code S finals isn't ZvZ but TvZ, that means zerg needs boost so next time it is a nice ZvZ?
Look at pro level players. How many all ins do you see using a warp prism?
Thats kinda the point, that with speed prism more all-ins might be viable, and protos already has a fairly impressive amount.
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it's a good idea for progamers but is bad for ladder
generally i don't think that removing the research for upgrades is the way to go, also since they introduced the medivac boost, giving the prism the speed upgrade will make the drop play less different
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I think prism doesn't need buff ... the problem it's MS core 
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On May 29 2013 18:30 Sigo wrote:I think prism doesn't need buff ... the problem it's MS core
Explain please.
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MS core is too strong with all-in and another push in early game. Recall and Time warp canceled all risk for the protoss who 4gate pressure or something like this. It's my opinion but I think that MS core can be usefull without be to strong in early (with more cost for their spells for example).
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Dude if you go for a 4Gate and you have to recall you're already fucked.
MSC is totally fine imho, Protoss needs something like that to pressure the opponent a bit, since they can't just run back home without losing every single unit.
Also, the point of this thread is possible Protoss buffs, not nerfs.
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On May 29 2013 16:29 willstertben wrote:
if drops were 100/100 and same research time as overlord speed that would already be enough to make dropping a very viable option, giving some MUCH needed harass potential to zerg.
Because mutalisks are already quite bad at harassing...
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I agree, i'm not protoss so I don't live problem in early with this race, but I think without this risk (lost all of their units), 4gate it's not a all-in :/
Then, we can lower cost of upgrad speed for prism.
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I think it's pretty fair, i luv it!
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Can you imagine how ready toss can kill a hatch now ? Zealots are tank enough , they rip hatcheries down EZ ......
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On May 29 2013 18:51 Eviscerador wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 16:29 willstertben wrote:
if drops were 100/100 and same research time as overlord speed that would already be enough to make dropping a very viable option, giving some MUCH needed harass potential to zerg. Because mutalisks are already quite bad at harassing...
While that is true muta's are an actual techpath rather then an harrassing tool so its a silly comparison.
Yes, you can make a couple muta's to harass but unless you make quite a bit its actually a loss for you since the opponent needs 1defensive structure and he is safe.
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On May 29 2013 16:43 Willzzz wrote:
This is silly, WCS Korea just started off this season this season with very few protoss players, they started with 8 in the Ro32 and had 2 in the Ro8 and 1 in the Ro4. The ones who took part did just fine, and when Parting and sOs lost it was only by a single game. Out of the 12 who qualified from Code A exactly one third were protoss.
Europe was skewed because it had 4 Korean terrans. I mean you just don't expect SaSe to be able to beat MVP.
Why not? Scarlett did.
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So ,... how many pressed "Yes" just to troll Apollo?
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On May 29 2013 19:24 blackbrrd wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 16:43 Willzzz wrote:
This is silly, WCS Korea just started off this season this season with very few protoss players, they started with 8 in the Ro32 and had 2 in the Ro8 and 1 in the Ro4. The ones who took part did just fine, and when Parting and sOs lost it was only by a single game. Out of the 12 who qualified from Code A exactly one third were protoss.
Europe was skewed because it had 4 Korean terrans. I mean you just don't expect SaSe to be able to beat MVP.
Why not? Scarlett did.
Fail to see any relation between Scarlett winning Mvp in one game after correctly refuting a bad build order and SaSe being able to beat Mvp in a bo3.
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Sase won't be in PL next season. He is not a great example.
When you look at the numbers, it is really hard to see that P should suffer from any balance-issues. They only appear if you look at the placements at the very top of tournaments. But that is a very small sample to look at, and it is not as if protoss are completely absent. Naniwa got 2nd at DH, after all.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On May 29 2013 05:21 JacobNX01a wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 05:14 Targe wrote:On May 29 2013 05:10 JacobNX01a wrote:
I like the idea of giving Protoss more harass options, but I feel like zerg is being neglected in the dropping department. Zerg has insanely cheap, easily massable units which can drop, not sure what you're saying there. Sure, but we have to research two upgrades to drop, and you don't see zerg drop as often as protoss or terran. I just feel like zerg should have some compensation for the other two races having such strong drop play.
Just like Terran has to tech to starport to get medivacs, it costs 150/100. It then takes another 100/100 to get one medivac. At a total time of 92 seconds.
Zerg on the other hand has a 200/200 upgrade at 130s, and 100/100 at 60s and they can have built many overlords in the time it took for that to complete.
The gas cost of Terran drops increases with every medivac whereas with Zerg the gas costs is a one time 300.
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On May 29 2013 19:22 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 18:51 Eviscerador wrote:On May 29 2013 16:29 willstertben wrote:
if drops were 100/100 and same research time as overlord speed that would already be enough to make dropping a very viable option, giving some MUCH needed harass potential to zerg. Because mutalisks are already quite bad at harassing... While that is true muta's are an actual techpath rather then an harrassing tool so its a silly comparison. Yes, you can make a couple muta's to harass but unless you make quite a bit its actually a loss for you since the opponent needs 1defensive structure and he is safe.
Which single defensive structure stops muta harrasment across the map? You need quite some to have enough coverage by your static defense. Otherwise you can at least snipe outlying buildings.
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On May 29 2013 07:31 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 07:22 ymir233 wrote:On May 29 2013 07:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 29 2013 07:06 ymir233 wrote:On May 29 2013 05:58 Jetskii wrote:On May 29 2013 05:51 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't like this because of how much it buffs things like early game DT play and such. If anything I think this could use a cost reduction on the speed as well as potentially a decrease in research time.
Having it available as soon as a Robotics Facility is down I think just allows for way too many early game cheese builds. True, true, but it could give an opportunity for Protoss to damage Zerg players' economy. And nobody likes an undamaged Zerg economy. Because Phoenix don't damage Zerg econ at ALL, right? Different tech route--now protoss can harass if they go Stargate OR if they go Robo Currently Stargate = Harass, Robo = Turtle. This should even out the harass possibilities for both. Then since mutas are fine with harassing, allow roaches and infestors to jump over cliffs so Zergs can have a harass opportunity that negates the defender's advantage on 2 bases regardless of whichever tech Zergs go. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. Tech tree different. Speedlings is harass for Hatch tech Muta is harass for Lair tech Hive does not have a harass option and hence needs one.
Burrowed Infestors could work for Hive tech, dropping Infested Terrans in the mineral line.
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EPT
