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On May 29 2013 20:04 Jetskii wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 07:31 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 29 2013 07:22 ymir233 wrote:On May 29 2013 07:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 29 2013 07:06 ymir233 wrote:On May 29 2013 05:58 Jetskii wrote:On May 29 2013 05:51 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't like this because of how much it buffs things like early game DT play and such. If anything I think this could use a cost reduction on the speed as well as potentially a decrease in research time.
Having it available as soon as a Robotics Facility is down I think just allows for way too many early game cheese builds. True, true, but it could give an opportunity for Protoss to damage Zerg players' economy. And nobody likes an undamaged Zerg economy. Because Phoenix don't damage Zerg econ at ALL, right? Different tech route--now protoss can harass if they go Stargate OR if they go Robo Currently Stargate = Harass, Robo = Turtle. This should even out the harass possibilities for both. Then since mutas are fine with harassing, allow roaches and infestors to jump over cliffs so Zergs can have a harass opportunity that negates the defender's advantage on 2 bases regardless of whichever tech Zergs go. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. Tech tree different. Speedlings is harass for Hatch tech Muta is harass for Lair tech Hive does not have a harass option and hence needs one. Burrowed Infestors could work for Hive tech, dropping Infested Terrans in the mineral line.
Burrowed infestors are not hive tech.
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Wow, this is great. I love Warp Prism harass but if you do it early game you're forced into going Colossi and your enemy can predict that without even scouting.
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On May 29 2013 20:08 arterian wrote:
Wow, this is great. I love Warp Prism harass but if you do it early game you're forced into going Colossi and your enemy can predict that without even scouting.
Why will Warp Prism force you into Colossus? Most Protoss players will have a Robotic Facility regardless because they need Immortals or Observers
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On May 29 2013 19:52 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 05:21 JacobNX01a wrote:On May 29 2013 05:14 Targe wrote:On May 29 2013 05:10 JacobNX01a wrote:
I like the idea of giving Protoss more harass options, but I feel like zerg is being neglected in the dropping department. Zerg has insanely cheap, easily massable units which can drop, not sure what you're saying there. Sure, but we have to research two upgrades to drop, and you don't see zerg drop as often as protoss or terran. I just feel like zerg should have some compensation for the other two races having such strong drop play. Just like Terran has to tech to starport to get medivacs, it costs 150/100. It then takes another 100/100 to get one medivac. At a total time of 92 seconds. Zerg on the other hand has a 200/200 upgrade at 130s, and 100/100 at 60s and they can have built many overlords in the time it took for that to complete. The gas cost of Terran drops increases with every medivac whereas with Zerg the gas costs is a one time 300.
If overlords would heal my own units you might have a point. Also you can't even compare dropping 10 supply of lings to 10 supply of marines - all you need to do to save your workers is run them away since lings suck at taking out worker trains efficiently.
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Mid-late game , toss has 10++ gates , warp prism near 2 Zerg expos as Zerg tries to attack turtle toss , warp in mass zealot , target and insta kill hatches , zealot are so tanky they will kill the hatch.
People can say 'spine up' , but what zerg is gonna have cash to just throw that much protection at each base ?!?!
Give zerg overlord speed from the start and then we are All good !!! Why not anyway , reaper = complete scout ! MSC - complete scout ! Where is zergs ?!
Leave drop tech at lair , but it'd be great to have zerg doing some drops for once .... Problem is , 2 upgrades to be able to drop (and our units aren't even good to drop rly, other than banes) is too much
I dunno , jut feeling zerg being overlooked all the time right now ....
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i like how it went from P harass ability to Z CANT DROP!!!, Imo Z has a great array of harass abilitys and Z drop capacity already got a boost but most did not notice, sooooooooooooo 
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protoss in sc2 is such a terribly designed race. Warp in mechanic ruins any chance of balancing gateway units, and half the builds are gimmicks. Protoss needs to be reworked completely imo, this proposed change will lead to more gimmicks than late game drop harass usage.
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Very nice idea, I haven´t seen a lot warp prisms recently and this looks like a good way.
Anybody ever thought about an upgrade for the warp prism which increases the warp-in range and gives increased shield regeneration? Sounds a bit silly but I kind of like the idea.
Edit: Shield reg for the units which are standing in the warp prism warp-in range, just imagine an archon drop =)
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On May 29 2013 20:54 MrSourGit wrote:
Mid-late game , toss has 10++ gates , warp prism near 2 Zerg expos as Zerg tries to attack turtle toss , warp in mass zealot , target and insta kill hatches , zealot are so tanky they will kill the hatch.
People can say 'spine up' , but what zerg is gonna have cash to just throw that much protection at each base ?!?!
Give zerg overlord speed from the start and then we are All good !!! Why not anyway , reaper = complete scout ! MSC - complete scout ! Where is zergs ?!
Leave drop tech at lair , but it'd be great to have zerg doing some drops for once .... Problem is , 2 upgrades to be able to drop (and our units aren't even good to drop rly, other than banes) is too much
I dunno , jut feeling zerg being overlooked all the time right now ....
You can warpin mass zealots without the speed aswell, lol.
What exactly is your point?
What would Overlord speed change about that?
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On May 29 2013 21:04 Big-t wrote:
Very nice idea, I haven´t seen a lot warp prisms recently and this looks like a good way.
Anybody ever thought about an upgrade for the warp prism which increases the warp-in range and gives increased shield regeneration? Sounds a bit silly but I kind of like the idea.
Edit: Shield reg for the units which are standing in the warp prism warp-in range, just imagine an archon drop =)
Haha id love that but i fear it would make archon drops and such waaay too good
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Ok, give me medivac boost full time, so it's ok. Serious, Protoss is already too good, this change will fuck up PvT even more than it is right now for T.
And remove nexus cannon for christ sake. It's funny how everyone want P nerfed and blizz think they need to be buffed.
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For me balance changes should focus on Stalker(dmg vs blink tech) and Mother ship(make it immune on MindControl & yoink) to allow fight with stephano SH turtle style.
In long term(probably next expansion) i would be happy to see new toss without warpIn tech and without sentries. This would change ALOT.
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On May 29 2013 13:13 AstroPegnuin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 13:06 TheRabidDeer wrote:On May 29 2013 13:00 AstroPegnuin wrote:
Love the double standards how people think it was okay to have speed on Medivacs for free with no cost, I even made the comparison of it being like giving Warp Prisms speed back than. Stop complaining and let blizzard buff stuff to make it strong so we can move towards a more Brood War style of game (Which is a good thing trust me).
also please try and play straight up macro style of Protoss and see how frustrating it is to play such a agonizing race that relies on build order advantages to actually compete against people you are mechanically better than, you may actually realize that contrary to the believe we do have to micro as well A lot of people were questioning speed boost medivacs then and still are now. I dont know what youre drinking. Protoss is so far from figured out it is funny, but you can continue to believe that your race is so terrible when there is really pretty much no evidence agreeing with you. The game is really well balanced. Go crunch out the statistics of Protoss players winrates vs Zerg/Terran without relying on coinflip all ins and tell me Protoss is on the same level as both Zerg and Terran, the fact that we have guys like Creator and even Rain to some degree getting manhandled every now and than by what we would assume are inferior opponents just showcases my belief. Honestly I'm not even calling for any buffs but more so just stating that people have such a warped and distorted view on Protoss that it's aggravating/frustrating to see the amount of ignorance and lack of understanding against Protoss.
Ppl all in with P because they have 32178686 different builds that can instant win the game, not because its necessary.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On May 29 2013 20:48 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 19:52 Targe wrote:On May 29 2013 05:21 JacobNX01a wrote:On May 29 2013 05:14 Targe wrote:On May 29 2013 05:10 JacobNX01a wrote:
I like the idea of giving Protoss more harass options, but I feel like zerg is being neglected in the dropping department. Zerg has insanely cheap, easily massable units which can drop, not sure what you're saying there. Sure, but we have to research two upgrades to drop, and you don't see zerg drop as often as protoss or terran. I just feel like zerg should have some compensation for the other two races having such strong drop play. Just like Terran has to tech to starport to get medivacs, it costs 150/100. It then takes another 100/100 to get one medivac. At a total time of 92 seconds. Zerg on the other hand has a 200/200 upgrade at 130s, and 100/100 at 60s and they can have built many overlords in the time it took for that to complete. The gas cost of Terran drops increases with every medivac whereas with Zerg the gas costs is a one time 300. If overlords would heal my own units you might have a point. Also you can't even compare dropping 10 supply of lings to 10 supply of marines - all you need to do to save your workers is run them away since lings suck at taking out worker trains efficiently.
Increased gas cost is what allows the heal to not be imbalanced.
I implied that you would drop with more than 20 lings, say you make 4 overlords (400 minerals) then you load with 32 lings (16 supply, 800 minerals), you could then drop two bases with 16 lings at a mineral only cost, one of those drops is going to destroy the cc/nexus/hatch most likely and you will prevent mining from two bases for a period.
Bare in mind that two Terran drops cost 2*(100+(8*50)) = 1000 minerals and 200 gas for the dropships.
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Ok. I won't be whining at my nydus worm's broken family.
What 'buff' I want to see in Warp Prism is simple.
Move the speed research to Cybernetic Core with same cost/time (100/100, 80s).
Done.
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On May 29 2013 21:04 Big-t wrote:
Very nice idea, I haven´t seen a lot warp prisms recently and this looks like a good way.
Anybody ever thought about an upgrade for the warp prism which increases the warp-in range and gives increased shield regeneration? Sounds a bit silly but I kind of like the idea.
Edit: Shield reg for the units which are standing in the warp prism warp-in range, just imagine an archon drop =)
Actually, the shield/enery regenerates at the same rate inside Warp Prism
Here, look under 'other' section
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Warp_Prism
And no... no more battery-like units/structures...
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On May 29 2013 17:48 havok55 wrote:
People bringing up Zerg are missing one point. Zerg doesnt actually need drops or nydus at all. Those are just extra, usually less desirable, options for some gimmicky play.
Zerg have speedlings and mutas.
What's the Terran equivalent of 10 mutas in your main? Drops.
What's the Terran equivalent of 20 lings in your 3rd? Drops.
See the pattern? Terran relies on drops to do everything, which was why medivacs got the boosters. Protoss is in the same boat, although they also have proxy pylons that sort of work like ling runbys.
Umm lol? How about marine-groups killing off expos? Banshee? Hellion? Arent u forgetting a lot of things? 
(not to start with toss's harass)
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On May 29 2013 20:40 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 20:08 arterian wrote:
Wow, this is great. I love Warp Prism harass but if you do it early game you're forced into going Colossi and your enemy can predict that without even scouting. Why will Warp Prism force you into Colossus? Most Protoss players will have a Robotic Facility regardless because they need Immortals or Observers
Because the current WP upgrade requires Robo bay, which unlocks Colossi
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On May 29 2013 19:52 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 05:21 JacobNX01a wrote:On May 29 2013 05:14 Targe wrote:On May 29 2013 05:10 JacobNX01a wrote:
I like the idea of giving Protoss more harass options, but I feel like zerg is being neglected in the dropping department. Zerg has insanely cheap, easily massable units which can drop, not sure what you're saying there. Sure, but we have to research two upgrades to drop, and you don't see zerg drop as often as protoss or terran. I just feel like zerg should have some compensation for the other two races having such strong drop play. Just like Terran has to tech to starport to get medivacs, it costs 150/100. It then takes another 100/100 to get one medivac. At a total time of 92 seconds. Zerg on the other hand has a 200/200 upgrade at 130s, and 100/100 at 60s and they can have built many overlords in the time it took for that to complete. The gas cost of Terran drops increases with every medivac whereas with Zerg the gas costs is a one time 300.
And Medivacs obviously don't help you in later stages of the games nor are mandotory for a Terran who goes bio, right? right?
And to your ling dropexample, 16 lings won't do shit unless you have 2/2 on your lings and even then, 1 bunker with one marine should delay it enough to get 8rinors+medv there.
Zerg drops are just totally unefficient if you just drop one kind of unit.
The only real good drop harass is banelings(+infestor/lings). and then we are talking about 4x25gas per mineral you need to invest at least.
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great thing some people realize how underperforming the protoss are recently.
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EPT
