EPTWarp prism speed buff, test map. 5.28.2013 - Page 34
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Falling
Canada11368 Posts
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On May 29 2013 14:29 Goldfish wrote: That's another good idea. A comproise is that units build by Gateways have higher stats (they can do easily by adding a behavior buff to units built/produced from gateways... or if they want to set the stats more exactly, they can have two copies of each unit, one that spawns from Warp Gates and the other from Gateways). Finally if they were worried about gateway cheeses (2 proxy gateways for example), the buff would only be unlocked maybe after the Cybernetics Core or Twilight Council is built (no upgrades needed, just need those tech structures to remain). This isnt how starcraft works....if we had to start adding time limiters to make sure a race isnt too strong we'll be playing a fucking moba game ~_~ Right now I feel blizzard cannot really make any changes to fix toss other than adding more gimicky options to mask the win rate..similar to how MC was beating everyone before they can figure out how to fight the new style. Buffing gateway comp would mean they'd have to flat out remove blink and remove robotics units, and they cant really change the meta this hard unless its LoV....but what we are really seeing in expansion changes are just additions to the previous meta, rather than complete changes. To be honest, until starcraft 3 comes out or Blizzard really goes all out I dont see much changes going to happen. | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
This unit is so boring to watch and play. And has too much impact in every matchup, or in any strategy. My guess is that, people don't build warp prisms not because its bad, but because you'll just die if you won't build colossi, immortal or observer. at least one of them is a must in every kind of situation. | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On May 29 2013 14:46 saddaromma wrote: Kinda irrelevant. But I honestly hope colossi will be removed in lotv. This unit is so boring to watch and play. And has too much impact in every matchup, or in any strategy. My guess is that, people don't build warp prisms not because its bad, but because you'll just die if you won't build colossi, immortal or observer. at least one of them is a must in every kind of situation. Collosis are really just....sad. It forces the toss to protect them constantly, basically forced to deathball, while opponents are forced to make compostions that counter it. Id love them to remove the collosi and add them lazer damage style to the big mothership (only one allowed, increase damage as needed), change the gateway as needed and add a new unit | ||
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Brian333
657 Posts
On May 29 2013 14:12 padfoota wrote: As a amateur terran Im starting to get really scared about toss harrass + all ins and their unstoppable lategame that requires the terran to play greedy/unsafe to beat on ladder ~_~ 7 gate robo incoming all day But seriously people arguing in this thread on ladder vs pro is silly. Yes, toss skill ceiling drops while zerg and terran continues to benefit heavily all game long from a much higher skill ceiling, meaning against mechanically strong T/Z protoss will just get man handled. However, on ladder where everyones skill is limited to about 100-200 apm toss benefits the most. If they continue buffing protoss harrass options what we will get soon is some sort of 2 base gateway with or without DT warp prism that transitions into archon/collosi chargelot all ins, and while the game might be more balanced in the pro scene, the ladder will actually favor toss heavily. How does Protoss have a lower skill ceiling. Late-game, you need to control 2 different caster units, baby sit another caster unit, and control your main army that partially consists of units that are fragile unless you intensely micro them. Seriously, watching Parting's control in battle vs. most other Protoss pro-gamers is evidence that there is no way on earth Protoss's skill ceiling is lower than Terran or Zerg. | ||
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hli
Canada32 Posts
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On May 29 2013 14:57 hli wrote: so protoss can have basically medivac boost speed without a cool down, with the ability to warp in with 20 gateways in the late game? forcing an already heavy mineral intensive bio composition to be EVEN weaker against the op late game of protoss by forcing the T to build turret rings? Wtf? That's without mentioning the plethora of all-ins that'll be built around this change... and I'm sure Zergs have something to say about it too. If you boost the speed a little bit, it's understandable.. the upgraded speed.... nothin can catch it. ? Toss already had that option late game back in WoL dude. Why do you think everyone was allining them at the 15 minute mark? On May 29 2013 14:57 Brian333 wrote: How does Protoss have a lower skill ceiling. Late-game, you need to control 2 different caster units, baby sit another caster unit, and control your main army that partially consists of units that are fragile unless you intensely micro them. Seriously, watching Parting's control in battle vs. most other Protoss pro-gamers is evidence that there is no way on earth Protoss's skill ceiling is lower than Terran or Zerg. Well I dont watch PvP but against other races PartinG's cute micro only really starts when he can afford to do so - high templar micros etc while having a gigantic deathball camping at his 4th/5th/ramp, making it feel like, yeah sure, you can do this, but its not necessary. | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
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Brian333
657 Posts
On May 29 2013 15:00 padfoota wrote: ? Toss already had that option late game back in WoL dude. Why do you think everyone was allining them at the 15 minute mark? Except any decent Zerg? | ||
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Ruined Gamer
United States36 Posts
On May 29 2013 14:57 hli wrote: so protoss can have basically medivac boost speed Medivac with boosters - 4.25 (same as hellion) Medivac with no boosters - 2.5 (same as current warp prism) Warp prism - 2.5 Warp prism w/ upgrade 3.375 (same as stimmed marines) The medivac is either slower or faster and the new warp prism will be faster than no booster medivac but slower than booster-vacs | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On May 29 2013 06:15 Emzeeshady wrote: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Holy fucking noooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are actually. Stalkers are probably the one basic unit for all the three races that transitions into a lategame scenario the worst. Marines, marauders? Useful. Lings, banelings? Useful. Zealots? useful. Stalkers? Completely and utterly useless. Also no idea why I saw this post from ages ago. | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
Because zergs had THE MOST BROKEN death ball comp back in WoL so that they didnt need to give a shit about it? The guy was speaking from a terran perspective man. On May 29 2013 15:04 DarkLordOlli wrote: They are actually. Stalkers are probably the one basic unit for all the three races that transitions into a lategame scenario the worst. Marines, marauders? Useful. Lings, banelings? Useful. Zealots? useful. Stalkers? Completely and utterly useless. Also no idea why I saw this post from ages ago. Have you ever played BW? Yes? Imagine if dragoons had blink. Plus you listed out the exact problem of why stalkers dont need a buff. They are completely viable and probably decent/reasonably strong early game in small skirmishes, while having Blink allowed them to be good pre deathball scale supply. If you buffed them, not only will they be ridiculously strong early game, but they'll be viable as a unit to mass by itself late game too. Along with all the other late game units toss has? I dont think so man. RIght now stalkers late game is to be the main anti air unit, while being a decent harrass/map control unit early game. With the amount of problems terrans are having vs blink stalker mothership allins I imagine a stalker buff would make the terran community go nuts lol. Sure buff the stalker. Give us back the warhound. Lets have boring games. | ||
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willstertben
427 Posts
On May 29 2013 15:04 DarkLordOlli wrote: They are actually. Stalkers are probably the one basic unit for all the three races that transitions into a lategame scenario the worst. Marines, marauders? Useful. Lings, banelings? Useful. Zealots? useful. Stalkers? Completely and utterly useless. Also no idea why I saw this post from ages ago. so what about roaches then. do we see any lategame armies with roaches? no? do we see any lategame armies with stalkers? yes? like all of them? humm. | ||
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hli
Canada32 Posts
On May 29 2013 15:04 Ruined Gamer wrote: Medivac with boosters - 4.25 (same as hellion) Medivac with no boosters - 2.5 (same as current warp prism) Warp prism - 2.5 Warp prism w/ upgrade 3.375 (same as stimmed marines) The medivac is either slower or faster and the new warp prism will be faster than no booster medivac but slower than booster-vacs last I checked, stim marines are faster than vikings, and stim marines are the same speed as stim marines. How do you propose terran chase these down? In the long run, medivacs even with boost can be caught when they run out (if they boost at a bad time). Speed WP can never be caught by T unless they have turret ring, or if P mismicros, thus making it "basically medivac boost speed", the epitomy of speed these days. | ||
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foxmulder_ms
United States140 Posts
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BerthaG
France74 Posts
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Brian333
657 Posts
On May 29 2013 15:05 padfoota wrote: Because zergs had THE MOST BROKEN death ball comp back in WoL so that they didnt need to give a shit about it? The guy was speaking from a terran perspective man. On May 29 2013 14:57 hli wrote: so protoss can have basically medivac boost speed without a cool down, with the ability to warp in with 20 gateways in the late game? forcing an already heavy mineral intensive bio composition to be EVEN weaker against the op late game of protoss by forcing the T to build turret rings? Wtf? That's without mentioning the plethora of all-ins that'll be built around this change... and I'm sure Zergs have something to say about it too. If you boost the speed a little bit, it's understandable.. the upgraded speed.... nothin can catch it. | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On May 29 2013 15:05 padfoota wrote: Because zergs had THE MOST BROKEN death ball comp back in WoL so that they didnt need to give a shit about it? The guy was speaking from a terran perspective man. Have you ever played BW? Yes? Imagine if dragoons had blink. Plus you listed out the exact problem of why stalkers dont need a buff. They are completely viable and probably decent/reasonably strong early game in small skirmishes, while having Blink allowed them to be good pre deathball scale supply. If you buffed them, not only will they be ridiculously strong early game, but they'll be viable as a unit to mass by itself late game too. Along with all the other late game units toss has? I dont think so man. RIght now stalkers late game is to be the main anti air unit, while being a decent harrass/map control unit early game. With the amount of problems terrans are having vs blink stalker mothership allins I imagine a stalker buff would make the terran community go nuts lol I'm not saying straight up buff stalker stats. I'm saying maybe give stalkers another upgrade at whatever, robo bay or something. I understand that stalkers are extremely strong in all ins/cheese or (very) small skirmishes early but they become entire useless very quickly. Stalkers are not your main anti air in the lategame, neither against zerg nor against terran. Storm fills that role as stalkers are simply too bad to be used in fights. Even if you do snipe all the vikings, your army will still not have enough DPS to melt a bioball with lots of medivacs because stalkers don't actually have DPS. What I'm suggesting is give them an upgrade that makes them better in the lategame. In lategame PvT of SC2, dragoons with blink wouldn't be too strong. | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On May 29 2013 15:12 hli wrote: last I checked, stim marines are faster than vikings, and stim marines are the same speed as stim marines. How do you propose terran chase these down? In the long run, medivacs even with boost can be caught when they run out (if they boost at a bad time). Speed WP can never be caught by T unless they have turret ring, or if P mismicros, thus making it "basically medivac boost speed", the epitomy of speed these days. The whole point of having speed upgrade on warpprism is to make sure they dont get caught ~_~ It was already a problem to deal with super late game since toss can fly around with one single warpprism, make units anywhere they like and be able to attack ridiculous amounts of places with 3/3/3 chargelots and DTs, while having a gigantic deathball waiting to pounce where ever seems the weakest. The terran counter for this was to actually make speed reapers as a strike force to stop the warpins. Sounds ridiculous? Thats why terrans were aiming to kill toss early on. | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On May 29 2013 15:10 willstertben wrote: so what about roaches then. do we see any lategame armies with roaches? no? do we see any lategame armies with stalkers? yes? like all of them? humm. We do against mech. Also roach/hydra viper against protoss. Roaches will still always be useful against some compositions. Give me one lategame composition centered around stalkers. Stalker/colossus isn't one. | ||
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