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Warp prism speed buff, test map. 5.28.2013 - Page 21

Forum Index > SC2 General
1346 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 68 Next
infinitum
Profile Joined April 2011
United States83 Posts
May 28 2013 20:56 GMT
#401
I think they should make the base speed faster, but not as fast as the upgraded speed.
Everything you know was forged from the remnants of a supernova.
infinitum
Profile Joined April 2011
United States83 Posts
May 28 2013 20:56 GMT
#402
Why not just give them a cool-down speed boost exactly like a medivac?
Everything you know was forged from the remnants of a supernova.
EladTL
Profile Joined March 2013
7 Posts
May 28 2013 20:57 GMT
#403
The consequence of this change is that zerg players will be very reluctant to go for swam hosts against protoss. Since
swarm hosts are not too popular as it is, I feel that this warp prism change would result with one of the most interesting units in the game (from a strategic point of view) disappearing (currently swarm hosts are almost exclusively used in zvp, at least in the higher levels).

Alternatively, if going for this change, this should also come with a small buff to swarm hosts (for example, a very small
damage increase, or removing the need for researching enduring locusts). I think the logic should be as follows:

-- currently protoss have a problem against terran because of the turbo-medivacs (pvz is rather balanced, see the close 4-3
between soulkey and sos, and the current record in proleague). The warp-prism buff could help counter this.

-- Buffing warp-prisms is essentially nerfing swarm-host plays in zvp, so swarm hosts should get slightly buffed to account for this, so the two changes together should hopefully fix tvp and keep zvp balanced.

-- As swarm hosts are currently considered not viable in zvt (rarely seen in the higher levels, excluding
certain late game scenerios and TLO), a small swarm host buff could make them a viable option in zvt, making this matchup more diverse yet still balanced (right now I feel that tvz is fairly balanced, perhaps with a small edge for terran, which such a buff may even help to rectify).

-- So, assuming my logic is sound (comments plz), all in all, a warp prism PLUS small swarm host buff would help balance all three non-mirror matchups, and may also make the game more diverse (may even make swarm hosts viable in zvz, which would be really cool).



OatmeeL
Profile Joined February 2012
United States12 Posts
May 28 2013 20:57 GMT
#404
Personally i think protoss has issues with stable macro play, not harassment.. speed prisms are quite devastating as they are. On top of this protoss has DT, phoenix, oracle, plain runbys, and even blink stalkers or voidray+recall in very specific scenarios. What protoss players need help with is when they miss 1 forcefield, 20 lings run into their natural, and the game ends. TLDR forcefield is the root of all problems anyway.

Id rather see a buff/tweak to something else. But still, buffs > nerfs in general
GoT TV thread: I know the thread says "no book discussions", and I don't intend to start one. But just having read the books, I want to say here: --- (WTF seriously? - Mod) (User was temp banned for this post.)
Jetskii
Profile Joined May 2013
United States6 Posts
May 28 2013 20:58 GMT
#405
On May 29 2013 05:51 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't like this because of how much it buffs things like early game DT play and such. If anything I think this could use a cost reduction on the speed as well as potentially a decrease in research time.

Having it available as soon as a Robotics Facility is down I think just allows for way too many early game cheese builds.

True, true, but it could give an opportunity for Protoss to damage Zerg players' economy. And nobody likes an undamaged Zerg economy.
MMM Macro FTW
lorestarcraft
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1049 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-28 20:59:32
May 28 2013 20:59 GMT
#406
I like the change, but I dont like just LOSING a whole upgrade as protoss (again). Give the amulet back in some form, and make a warp-radius or capacity buff for the warp-prizm.
SC2 Mapmaker
algue
Profile Joined July 2011
France1436 Posts
May 28 2013 21:00 GMT
#407
I like how people were bitching on the removal of the siege tank research (eventhough everybody was still playing WoL and struggling against zerg) and now that the game is balanced everybody finds this very good eventhough Protoss is a very good ladder race and does very well in proleague
rly ?
Jetskii
Profile Joined May 2013
United States6 Posts
May 28 2013 21:00 GMT
#408
On May 29 2013 05:56 infinitum wrote:
I think they should make the base speed faster, but not as fast as the upgraded speed.

That was mentioned as a possible variation should the original buff not work.
MMM Macro FTW
da_head
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3350 Posts
May 28 2013 21:00 GMT
#409
It is indeed an interesting buff to put in place but im against their policy of removing more and more upgrades from the game.
When they see MC Probe, all the ladies disrobe.
Jetskii
Profile Joined May 2013
United States6 Posts
May 28 2013 21:01 GMT
#410
On May 29 2013 05:59 lorestarcraft wrote:
I like the change, but I dont like just LOSING a whole upgrade as protoss (again). Give the amulet back in some form, and make a warp-radius or capacity buff for the warp-prizm.

That sounds nice (although as a Terran player...not so much .
MMM Macro FTW
freetgy
Profile Joined November 2010
1720 Posts
May 28 2013 21:03 GMT
#411
On May 29 2013 05:56 infinitum wrote:
Why not just give them a cool-down speed boost exactly like a medivac?


may be because protoss is supposed to be the more advanced race story wise?
Nachtwind
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany1130 Posts
May 28 2013 21:04 GMT
#412
i official demand warpprism making this sound!!

invisible tetris level master
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
May 28 2013 21:05 GMT
#413
On May 29 2013 05:14 IcedBacon wrote:
I don't like it, Protoss already has so many harass options available to them, they just don't multitask as well as the top Terrans and Zergs right now. DTs, warp ins all around the map, oracles, storm drops... All of those can be so powerful.


This is not exactly fair--protoss don't have linear progression in tech like Zerg or Terran do.

Right now Protoss can harass with Stargate and they can harass with DT both are very powerful and can turn the tide in the game. This buff will give them access to a smoother harass option for Robo tech. Colossus + upgrade is soooo important for robo routes that this will allow protoss to not be so suceptible to counterattacks if the harass is denied (although they're still screwed if the prism is sniped)
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Littlesheep
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada217 Posts
May 28 2013 21:11 GMT
#414
This change is pretty obviously an attempt to counter the swarmhost build which seems unbeatable atm at high levels. It needs to be changed and will barely impact PvT or even seperate zerg builds.

This is a lategame swarmhost nerf, nothing else.
pro toez
Darpa
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada4413 Posts
May 28 2013 21:13 GMT
#415
On May 29 2013 05:56 infinitum wrote:
I think they should make the base speed faster, but not as fast as the upgraded speed.



Seriously, what are they thinking, you know how difficult it will be to deal with warp prism harass when you dont have stim yet? It would be ludicrous. Good Idea for the buff, but giving it the full upgrade is absurd, they are sooo fast with that upgrade. There literally isnt a unit in the terran arsenal that fast.
"losers always whine about their best, Winners go home and fuck the prom queen"
GoodSirTets
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada200 Posts
May 28 2013 21:13 GMT
#416
warp prism harass is already very strong. I think they're looking in the wrong direction.

There's already enough shit that makes it easy to deal terrible terrible damage to workers. TvT used to be a chess match of positional methodical play. Now it's a hellbat dropping competition.
High Diamond/ Low Masters :^)
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
May 28 2013 21:13 GMT
#417
--- Nuked ---
Reborn8u
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1761 Posts
May 28 2013 21:13 GMT
#418
I think stalkers are in need of a buff. I think they should get +2 per +1 attack upgrade. They fire 2 beams per attack, and roaches get +2 per upgrade as well as the rate of fire for MM being so much higher they benefit from upgrades more than stalkers as well. Stalkers lose to everything. Roaches with speed can run them down even if they have blink, off creep. MM can run them down. I actually can't think of a zerg or terran unit they can beat for equal cost (if we only consider units that can return fire of course). They are protoss's primary anti air, and they aren't actually good vs most air units at equal cost either.

There are plenty of other good options for buffs as well I'd like to see tested out. I think immortals getting the blink upgrade would be interesting. It wouldn't be something for a 1 base rush, because it's a big investment to get out immortals on one tech path then blink on another.

Perhaps giving nexus a psi field would be nice as well, so they can provide warp ins and to put those cannons on. It's a little to easy to just target pylons and disable a protoss's worker defenses.

Protoss has been the worst performing race for the entirety of SC2, ever since early in WOL when warp got nerfed, zealots got a build time nerf, and forge got a build time nerf.Protoss has never really recovered, it really feels like an uphill battle all game if you don't all in.

Protoss is just too unforgiving, having the worst army mobility, weakest econ because it has the greatest difficulty in holding expansions and least benefit to expanding early. I am really glad they are finally giving it some attention, however I don't feel prisms are what is needed. They either work or they don't.

I changed to terran when I started playing HOTS. Protoss really needs to be stronger in the mid game, once that is fixed they will probably have to scale back the toss late game. It would certainly make the race much more fun to play and watch. I love playing terran, the race has so many viable options, and almost no glaring weaknesses. Protoss is full of blatant, exploitable weaknesses. If terran and zerg pros spent a month really learning and playing toss, the race would perform much worse than it is, a lot of it's flaws don't even get exploited often.
:)
GoodSirTets
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada200 Posts
May 28 2013 21:14 GMT
#419
On May 29 2013 06:11 Littlesheep wrote:
This change is pretty obviously an attempt to counter the swarmhost build which seems unbeatable atm at high levels. It needs to be changed and will barely impact PvT or even seperate zerg builds.

This is a lategame swarmhost nerf, nothing else.

except there are are other matchups as well. Think about collossus warp prism harass vs terran as an example of where I see this being way to stronk
High Diamond/ Low Masters :^)
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
May 28 2013 21:15 GMT
#420
--- Nuked ---
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