EPTWarp prism speed buff, test map. 5.28.2013 - Page 21
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infinitum
United States83 Posts
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infinitum
United States83 Posts
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EladTL
7 Posts
swarm hosts are not too popular as it is, I feel that this warp prism change would result with one of the most interesting units in the game (from a strategic point of view) disappearing (currently swarm hosts are almost exclusively used in zvp, at least in the higher levels). Alternatively, if going for this change, this should also come with a small buff to swarm hosts (for example, a very small damage increase, or removing the need for researching enduring locusts). I think the logic should be as follows: -- currently protoss have a problem against terran because of the turbo-medivacs (pvz is rather balanced, see the close 4-3 between soulkey and sos, and the current record in proleague). The warp-prism buff could help counter this. -- Buffing warp-prisms is essentially nerfing swarm-host plays in zvp, so swarm hosts should get slightly buffed to account for this, so the two changes together should hopefully fix tvp and keep zvp balanced. -- As swarm hosts are currently considered not viable in zvt (rarely seen in the higher levels, excluding certain late game scenerios and TLO), a small swarm host buff could make them a viable option in zvt, making this matchup more diverse yet still balanced (right now I feel that tvz is fairly balanced, perhaps with a small edge for terran, which such a buff may even help to rectify). -- So, assuming my logic is sound (comments plz), all in all, a warp prism PLUS small swarm host buff would help balance all three non-mirror matchups, and may also make the game more diverse (may even make swarm hosts viable in zvz, which would be really cool). | ||
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OatmeeL
United States12 Posts
Id rather see a buff/tweak to something else. But still, buffs > nerfs in general | ||
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Jetskii
United States6 Posts
On May 29 2013 05:51 Vindicare605 wrote: I don't like this because of how much it buffs things like early game DT play and such. If anything I think this could use a cost reduction on the speed as well as potentially a decrease in research time. Having it available as soon as a Robotics Facility is down I think just allows for way too many early game cheese builds. True, true, but it could give an opportunity for Protoss to damage Zerg players' economy. And nobody likes an undamaged Zerg economy. | ||
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lorestarcraft
United States1049 Posts
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algue
France1436 Posts
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Jetskii
United States6 Posts
On May 29 2013 05:56 infinitum wrote: I think they should make the base speed faster, but not as fast as the upgraded speed. That was mentioned as a possible variation should the original buff not work. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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Jetskii
United States6 Posts
On May 29 2013 05:59 lorestarcraft wrote: I like the change, but I dont like just LOSING a whole upgrade as protoss (again). Give the amulet back in some form, and make a warp-radius or capacity buff for the warp-prizm. That sounds nice (although as a Terran player...not so much  . | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
On May 29 2013 05:56 infinitum wrote: Why not just give them a cool-down speed boost exactly like a medivac? may be because protoss is supposed to be the more advanced race story wise? | ||
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Nachtwind
Germany1130 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On May 29 2013 05:14 IcedBacon wrote: I don't like it, Protoss already has so many harass options available to them, they just don't multitask as well as the top Terrans and Zergs right now. DTs, warp ins all around the map, oracles, storm drops... All of those can be so powerful. This is not exactly fair--protoss don't have linear progression in tech like Zerg or Terran do. Right now Protoss can harass with Stargate and they can harass with DT both are very powerful and can turn the tide in the game. This buff will give them access to a smoother harass option for Robo tech. Colossus + upgrade is soooo important for robo routes that this will allow protoss to not be so suceptible to counterattacks if the harass is denied (although they're still screwed if the prism is sniped) | ||
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Littlesheep
Canada217 Posts
This is a lategame swarmhost nerf, nothing else. | ||
Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
On May 29 2013 05:56 infinitum wrote: I think they should make the base speed faster, but not as fast as the upgraded speed. Seriously, what are they thinking, you know how difficult it will be to deal with warp prism harass when you dont have stim yet? It would be ludicrous. Good Idea for the buff, but giving it the full upgrade is absurd, they are sooo fast with that upgrade. There literally isnt a unit in the terran arsenal that fast. | ||
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GoodSirTets
Canada200 Posts
There's already enough shit that makes it easy to deal terrible terrible damage to workers. TvT used to be a chess match of positional methodical play. Now it's a hellbat dropping competition. | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
There are plenty of other good options for buffs as well I'd like to see tested out. I think immortals getting the blink upgrade would be interesting. It wouldn't be something for a 1 base rush, because it's a big investment to get out immortals on one tech path then blink on another. Perhaps giving nexus a psi field would be nice as well, so they can provide warp ins and to put those cannons on. It's a little to easy to just target pylons and disable a protoss's worker defenses. Protoss has been the worst performing race for the entirety of SC2, ever since early in WOL when warp got nerfed, zealots got a build time nerf, and forge got a build time nerf.Protoss has never really recovered, it really feels like an uphill battle all game if you don't all in. Protoss is just too unforgiving, having the worst army mobility, weakest econ because it has the greatest difficulty in holding expansions and least benefit to expanding early. I am really glad they are finally giving it some attention, however I don't feel prisms are what is needed. They either work or they don't. I changed to terran when I started playing HOTS. Protoss really needs to be stronger in the mid game, once that is fixed they will probably have to scale back the toss late game. It would certainly make the race much more fun to play and watch. I love playing terran, the race has so many viable options, and almost no glaring weaknesses. Protoss is full of blatant, exploitable weaknesses. If terran and zerg pros spent a month really learning and playing toss, the race would perform much worse than it is, a lot of it's flaws don't even get exploited often. | ||
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GoodSirTets
Canada200 Posts
On May 29 2013 06:11 Littlesheep wrote: This change is pretty obviously an attempt to counter the swarmhost build which seems unbeatable atm at high levels. It needs to be changed and will barely impact PvT or even seperate zerg builds. This is a lategame swarmhost nerf, nothing else. except there are are other matchups as well. Think about collossus warp prism harass vs terran as an example of where I see this being way to stronk | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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