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On April 17 2013 01:46 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 01:42 PixelNite wrote:
Haha all the koreans complaining about it on Twitter ... Wouldn't have mind Korea to have a bigger pricepool since it's the hardest league. No freakin shit the koreans would be complaining about them The biggest losers out of all of this are the korean players in Korea. The idea that they have no additional perks is stupid.
Yeah I can't believe it either. I guess we will keep seeing Korean players try other regions
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On April 17 2013 00:56 Prplppleatr wrote:
WCS Korea has a rotation of 24 players each season and WCS EU and NA only have a rotation of 8...wtf
Prize pool is meh...it's better, but still not much incentive for players trying to break into the scene to really practice to get in ($1k top prize and $375 bottom prize for Code A in KR, $300 top prize and $100 bottom prize NA/EU..and not all ppl in NA/EU get paid)
I'm very interested to see which tournaments are tier 1, tier 2
Summary:
NA/EU format - crap
NA/EU Prize pool - crap
Points - undetermined
Overall - needs improvement
Please fix, Blizzard. More NA/EU players rotating out. More prize pool in challenger.
At least KR isn't happy either, so we can all be mad, lol 
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On April 17 2013 01:44 Branman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 01:42 PixelNite wrote:
Haha all the koreans complaining about it on Twitter ... Wouldn't have mind Korea to have a bigger pricepool since it's the hardest league. If Koreans are the best, then they shouldn't worry about the prize pool as they will have the opportunity to win the season finals. If they are worried about being upset by non-koreans, then they should be complaining.
They were forced into this dumb World Cup-like tournament because the GSL was taken away from them and now they get a lower prize pool up-front. I think they have the right to complain. They have to do more work to win a similar amount of money and they have 1 less season a year. I doubt they're worried about being upset by non-Koreans but rather the Koreans that they have to beat twice just to get a decent payout compared to the old GSL.
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3815 Posts
This is really unfair to Koreans. Lol. What a huge mess.
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On April 17 2013 01:36 Waxangel wrote:
I'm excited to see which NA player can become the new Virus or Ensnare
It's not technically NA but isn't that Fenix already? People didn't even know he was alive for a good part of the last year and he still comes to the World Finals and gets a seed into this now.
And I'd be more interested in which tournament belongs into which tier than in the exact point distribution, I guess, that will be pretty important for the tournaments themselves and also the players to know. If you're unexpectedly Tier 2, you're pretty much fucked in terms of top player attendance, I'd say, unless you pump an ungodly amount of money into the tournament.
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haha I think this was even worse than before, prepare for a slaughter fest in the end XD
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Does anyone have information why Blizzard decided to merge OSL GSL for WCS instead of creating a new WCS league instead?
I thought this was one of the biggest concern and I still can't find any information on this matter.
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On April 17 2013 01:47 Branman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 01:44 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:39 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:31 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:26 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:23 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:21 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:15 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 00:59 aike wrote:On April 17 2013 00:46 LighT. wrote:
Biggest complaint:
Theres no bias towards Korea although there should be a little bit of leverage towards them. One country gets 5 spots. NA has 35 countries. EU has 50 countries. Plus the random other countries in africa/asia/SEA. So like 100 countries get 10 spots. Hmmm. Korea has no bias? ON TOP of the fact that koreans are invited to premier leagues of NA and EU? Dont look at it from a countries perspective. Look at it from the skill perspective. The top 100 players... like 90 of them are Korean. They're clearly deserving of more seeds. You don't want to do that otherwise it will lead to a super-boring competition. Imagine if the world cup only had teams from Europe and South America and that each country could send multiple teams. Brazil II vs. Germany II would be a snoozer of a match because you know that they are the 'B' teams. Why would it lead to a super-boring competition? Enlighten me. Because simply they're from the same nation??? its about level of competition. And lets use your example of world cup. It just supports my argument. Why?? World Cup is biased towards different continents. You dont see NA getting the same # of seeds as Europe or SA. Australia + asia only get like 4 seeds... Yea, it's biased towards different continents, but it's pretty obvious that the skill is only in two of them. Why should New Zealand or North Korea ever show up in the World Cup? It's very analogous to the WCS system where Korea has many more invites than every other country. As to the prize money thing: if Koreans are truly the best players, then they will win the prizes at the regional finals making the reduction in GSL top prize money a non-issue. You do make a solid argument about why most koreans would be deterred from WCS: NA if theyre from Korean league teams unless youre loaded (ie. MC/Nestea/MVP etc) But Korea DOESNT have many more invites than every other country. WCS:KR is basically WCS: Asia, call it WCS:Asia and you'll still have the same result because there isnt a single player outside of Korea (no disrespect to XiGua, Jim and Sen) that would do climb up the ranks otherwise. And Blizzard is giving the equal treatment of seeds by implying WCS: Asia = WCS:NA. How ridiculous is that!! The whole moving to NA/Eu is a big deal. If Koreans want to become a part of the NA/EU scene, they are welcome. We could use more players like Polt. Last I checked, not too many Koreans signed up for the WCS/NA qualifier due to actual obligations. EG-TL can't really participate in the qualifier because it goes from midnight KST until 10:00 am KST the night after a Proleague match. The tower-defense that is the EU qualification tournament right now is also proving that you really can't expect to qualify for another continent's code s by playing a tournament all night. As you mentioned. They cant cause of SPL/GSTL obligations. Especially the SPL teams which has their league spanning the entire year. The greatest benefits are the koreans in foreigner teams because they have more flexibility and leverage. korean teams arent going to suddenly pack their belongings and move to NA , throwing away GSTL/SPL just for a crack at easier competition in WCS:NA. The logistics of that is inane.. Knowing that competition will always be 4-5x greater in WCS:KR than WCS: EU/NA, they should have sorted it accordingly. The thing is... the stated goal of blizzard is to make Koreans and their team houses move to EU/NA. The point is to make SC2 a more global game where your skill level isn't dependent on where you live. If this balances the ladder where the top of the Korean ladder is at the same level as the NA/EU ladder, then mission accomplished.
Lol do you know how much fucking money it would cost for a whole Korean team house to relocate to EU/NA? This system is kind of really bad from what I can make sense of it. The seeding into the finals is a joke at 5-5 considering the top 30 Koreans could all easily beat the 4-5th place NA/EU players. Then new players into the next season is what 8 for EU/NA and 22 for Korea? What in the literal fuck?
So the place with the highest level of competition they bottle neck at the top end, and the place in the most need of new faces/talent they bottle neck at the low end.... Seriously am I missing something here? Please tell me I've missed something because if not that is fucking stupid and just killed all the hype I really had for WCS...
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last gsl's prize pool was $161,836.
now is it only 100k?
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On April 17 2013 01:39 Branman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 01:31 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:26 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:23 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:21 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:15 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 00:59 aike wrote:On April 17 2013 00:46 LighT. wrote:
Biggest complaint:
Theres no bias towards Korea although there should be a little bit of leverage towards them. One country gets 5 spots. NA has 35 countries. EU has 50 countries. Plus the random other countries in africa/asia/SEA. So like 100 countries get 10 spots. Hmmm. Korea has no bias? ON TOP of the fact that koreans are invited to premier leagues of NA and EU? Dont look at it from a countries perspective. Look at it from the skill perspective. The top 100 players... like 90 of them are Korean. They're clearly deserving of more seeds. You don't want to do that otherwise it will lead to a super-boring competition. Imagine if the world cup only had teams from Europe and South America and that each country could send multiple teams. Brazil II vs. Germany II would be a snoozer of a match because you know that they are the 'B' teams. Why would it lead to a super-boring competition? Enlighten me. Because simply they're from the same nation??? its about level of competition. And lets use your example of world cup. It just supports my argument. Why?? World Cup is biased towards different continents. You dont see NA getting the same # of seeds as Europe or SA. Australia + asia only get like 4 seeds... Yea, it's biased towards different continents, but it's pretty obvious that the skill is only in two of them. Why should New Zealand or North Korea ever show up in the World Cup? It's very analogous to the WCS system where Korea has many more invites than every other country. As to the prize money thing: if Koreans are truly the best players, then they will win the prizes at the regional finals making the reduction in GSL top prize money a non-issue. You do make a solid argument about why most koreans would be deterred from WCS: NA if theyre from Korean league teams unless youre loaded (ie. MC/Nestea/MVP etc) But Korea DOESNT have many more invites than every other country. WCS:KR is basically WCS: Asia, call it WCS:Asia and you'll still have the same result because there isnt a single player outside of Korea (no disrespect to XiGua, Jim and Sen) that would do climb up the ranks otherwise. And Blizzard is giving the equal treatment of seeds by implying WCS: Asia = WCS:NA. How ridiculous is that!! The whole moving to NA/Eu is a big deal. If Koreans want to become a part of the NA/EU scene, they are welcome. We could use more players like Polt. Last I checked, not too many Koreans signed up for the WCS/NA qualifier due to actual obligations. EG-TL can't really participate in the qualifier because it goes from midnight KST until 10:00 am KST the night after a Proleague match. The tower-defense that is the EU qualification tournament right now is also proving that you really can't expect to qualify for another continent's code s by playing a tournament all night.
korea to eu lag is horrid and is an extreme handicap while the lag to NA is playable.
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First rule of the SC2 fans: complain about everything :p
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So koreans dont get huge bonuses anymore (besides the fact that a korean will probably win the finals anyway) like "oh if you want to play here, you have to move to korea, because our code a / code s qualifiers are not online!" or "well sucks to not live in a country where the whole scene is concentrated in a single city"? Tough luck.
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On April 17 2013 00:52 AlbertHR wrote:
I'm kinda nervous for the prize pool distribution.... Being it equal across the board might encourage more Koreans to change regions to NA/EU
Yep - but on the flip side it might encourage Koreans to actually stay in EU or NA, which locals can benefit from if they train together.
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I like this comment on Twitter.
Alex Raymond @ClarityShew
That $300 for 1st in WCS challenger league is gonna be the hardest $300 i'm ever gonna work for
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Stupid points and prize distribution.
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Remember, that $20k for 1st in Premier is basically $25k minimum, as 1st place will get to the season finals, and the least they can make there is $5k.
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On April 17 2013 01:47 Branman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 01:44 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:39 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:31 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:26 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:23 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:21 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:15 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 00:59 aike wrote:On April 17 2013 00:46 LighT. wrote:
Biggest complaint:
Theres no bias towards Korea although there should be a little bit of leverage towards them. One country gets 5 spots. NA has 35 countries. EU has 50 countries. Plus the random other countries in africa/asia/SEA. So like 100 countries get 10 spots. Hmmm. Korea has no bias? ON TOP of the fact that koreans are invited to premier leagues of NA and EU? Dont look at it from a countries perspective. Look at it from the skill perspective. The top 100 players... like 90 of them are Korean. They're clearly deserving of more seeds. You don't want to do that otherwise it will lead to a super-boring competition. Imagine if the world cup only had teams from Europe and South America and that each country could send multiple teams. Brazil II vs. Germany II would be a snoozer of a match because you know that they are the 'B' teams. Why would it lead to a super-boring competition? Enlighten me. Because simply they're from the same nation??? its about level of competition. And lets use your example of world cup. It just supports my argument. Why?? World Cup is biased towards different continents. You dont see NA getting the same # of seeds as Europe or SA. Australia + asia only get like 4 seeds... Yea, it's biased towards different continents, but it's pretty obvious that the skill is only in two of them. Why should New Zealand or North Korea ever show up in the World Cup? It's very analogous to the WCS system where Korea has many more invites than every other country. As to the prize money thing: if Koreans are truly the best players, then they will win the prizes at the regional finals making the reduction in GSL top prize money a non-issue. You do make a solid argument about why most koreans would be deterred from WCS: NA if theyre from Korean league teams unless youre loaded (ie. MC/Nestea/MVP etc) But Korea DOESNT have many more invites than every other country. WCS:KR is basically WCS: Asia, call it WCS:Asia and you'll still have the same result because there isnt a single player outside of Korea (no disrespect to XiGua, Jim and Sen) that would do climb up the ranks otherwise. And Blizzard is giving the equal treatment of seeds by implying WCS: Asia = WCS:NA. How ridiculous is that!! The whole moving to NA/Eu is a big deal. If Koreans want to become a part of the NA/EU scene, they are welcome. We could use more players like Polt. Last I checked, not too many Koreans signed up for the WCS/NA qualifier due to actual obligations. EG-TL can't really participate in the qualifier because it goes from midnight KST until 10:00 am KST the night after a Proleague match. The tower-defense that is the EU qualification tournament right now is also proving that you really can't expect to qualify for another continent's code s by playing a tournament all night. As you mentioned. They cant cause of SPL/GSTL obligations. Especially the SPL teams which has their league spanning the entire year. The greatest benefits are the koreans in foreigner teams because they have more flexibility and leverage. korean teams arent going to suddenly pack their belongings and move to NA , throwing away GSTL/SPL just for a crack at easier competition in WCS:NA. The logistics of that is inane.. Knowing that competition will always be 4-5x greater in WCS:KR than WCS: EU/NA, they should have sorted it accordingly. The thing is... the stated goal of blizzard is to make Koreans and their team houses move to EU/NA. The point is to make SC2 a more global game where your skill level isn't dependent on where you live. If this balances the ladder where the top of the Korean ladder is at the same level as the NA/EU ladder, then mission accomplished.
So youre saying the ultimate goal of this is...
they want to promote other korean teams to get VISAs for all their players/coaches etc
Move into a completely new environment where they will face great cultural barrier/communication/ more expenses + tax
Just to even out the playing field?
That's not happening.
Not happening because again, its not logical to do so.
You want to establish team houses in EU/NA? Make a freakin team league..a competent one where its held offline, has large prize pool. You dont necessarily have to take away anything from the KR scene to cultivate growth on other regions but that is quite apparent from what I see right nojw.
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On April 17 2013 01:16 lichter wrote:
Like a lot of people my complaints are basically about lack of bias and preference for Koreans. They are the best, they deserve to be paid like the best. If NA/EU step it up, then even it out.
Korea has more paid in Challenger league and more points awarded there as well. Did everyone miss this?
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On April 17 2013 01:48 PixelNite wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 01:46 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:42 PixelNite wrote:
Haha all the koreans complaining about it on Twitter ... Wouldn't have mind Korea to have a bigger pricepool since it's the hardest league. No freakin shit the koreans would be complaining about them The biggest losers out of all of this are the korean players in Korea. The idea that they have no additional perks is stupid. Yeah I can't believe it either. I guess we will keep seeing Korean players try other regions
They wont because they cant.
The analogy I see is blizzard swiping away at the Korean's possession and oddly similar to North Korea where the government takes away people's possessions/crops and then laughing "haha, I took your shit and you cant do a single thing about it"
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On April 17 2013 01:52 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 01:47 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:44 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:39 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:31 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:26 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:23 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:21 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:15 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 00:59 aike wrote:
[quote]
One country gets 5 spots. NA has 35 countries. EU has 50 countries. Plus the random other countries in africa/asia/SEA. So like 100 countries get 10 spots.
Hmmm. Korea has no bias?
ON TOP of the fact that koreans are invited to premier leagues of NA and EU? Dont look at it from a countries perspective. Look at it from the skill perspective. The top 100 players... like 90 of them are Korean. They're clearly deserving of more seeds. You don't want to do that otherwise it will lead to a super-boring competition. Imagine if the world cup only had teams from Europe and South America and that each country could send multiple teams. Brazil II vs. Germany II would be a snoozer of a match because you know that they are the 'B' teams. Why would it lead to a super-boring competition? Enlighten me. Because simply they're from the same nation??? its about level of competition. And lets use your example of world cup. It just supports my argument. Why?? World Cup is biased towards different continents. You dont see NA getting the same # of seeds as Europe or SA. Australia + asia only get like 4 seeds... Yea, it's biased towards different continents, but it's pretty obvious that the skill is only in two of them. Why should New Zealand or North Korea ever show up in the World Cup? It's very analogous to the WCS system where Korea has many more invites than every other country. As to the prize money thing: if Koreans are truly the best players, then they will win the prizes at the regional finals making the reduction in GSL top prize money a non-issue. You do make a solid argument about why most koreans would be deterred from WCS: NA if theyre from Korean league teams unless youre loaded (ie. MC/Nestea/MVP etc) But Korea DOESNT have many more invites than every other country. WCS:KR is basically WCS: Asia, call it WCS:Asia and you'll still have the same result because there isnt a single player outside of Korea (no disrespect to XiGua, Jim and Sen) that would do climb up the ranks otherwise. And Blizzard is giving the equal treatment of seeds by implying WCS: Asia = WCS:NA. How ridiculous is that!! The whole moving to NA/Eu is a big deal. If Koreans want to become a part of the NA/EU scene, they are welcome. We could use more players like Polt. Last I checked, not too many Koreans signed up for the WCS/NA qualifier due to actual obligations. EG-TL can't really participate in the qualifier because it goes from midnight KST until 10:00 am KST the night after a Proleague match. The tower-defense that is the EU qualification tournament right now is also proving that you really can't expect to qualify for another continent's code s by playing a tournament all night. As you mentioned. They cant cause of SPL/GSTL obligations. Especially the SPL teams which has their league spanning the entire year. The greatest benefits are the koreans in foreigner teams because they have more flexibility and leverage. korean teams arent going to suddenly pack their belongings and move to NA , throwing away GSTL/SPL just for a crack at easier competition in WCS:NA. The logistics of that is inane.. Knowing that competition will always be 4-5x greater in WCS:KR than WCS: EU/NA, they should have sorted it accordingly. The thing is... the stated goal of blizzard is to make Koreans and their team houses move to EU/NA. The point is to make SC2 a more global game where your skill level isn't dependent on where you live. If this balances the ladder where the top of the Korean ladder is at the same level as the NA/EU ladder, then mission accomplished. Lol do you know how much fucking money it would cost for a whole Korean team house to relocate to EU/NA? This system is kind of really bad from what I can make sense of it. The seeding into the finals is a joke at 5-5 considering the top 30 Koreans could all easily beat the 4-5th place NA/EU players. Then new players into the next season is what 8 for EU/NA and 22 for Korea? What in the literal fuck? So the place with the highest level of competition they bottle neck at the top end, and the place in the most need of new faces/talent they bottle neck at the low end.... Seriously am I missing something here? Please tell me I've missed something because if not that is fucking stupid and just killed all the hype I really had for WCS...
Someone who finally see things my way.
<3
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EPT
