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On April 17 2013 02:07 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 02:01 MVTaylor wrote:On April 17 2013 01:40 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:33 MVTaylor wrote:On April 17 2013 01:24 LighT. wrote:
It's essentially a trade off.
It's either..
DO YOU WANT MORE REPRESENTATIVES FROM OTHER NATIONS OTHER THAN KOREA?
or....
DO YOU WANT TO SEE MORE HIGHER LEVEL COMPETITION? No it fucking isn't for god sake. Before this year WCS announcement we had the GSL and nothing for foreigners and after ti we STILL have the GSL, some tournaments MOSTLY for foreigners then 3 Seasonal Finals and 1 Yearly Grand final. So, we get more representatives from other countries, but obviously less than lass year AND we get more high level competition with more tournaments. No....youre wrong. So completely wrong You arent getting my freakin point. WCS: NA = 5 Seeds WCS: KR = 5 Seeds Although 5=5 may look like balance. IT ISNT. Am I complaining that there's a WCS:NA? NO. So dont bring that up. In the Seasons Finals and Blizzcon, by equating the seeds for each region, you're dropping off the level of competition. Tell me that a 5th place WCS:KR player is equivalent in skill to a 5th place of a WCS: EU Player. WCS: Korea or...might as well call it WCS: Asia CLEARLY deserves some sort of advantage or perks because it's the most competitive BY FAR. But there isnt. A Flash or a Rain = Goody? Thorzain?? Dont make me laugh. Again stressing my point: MORE REPRESENTATIVES FROM OTHER NATIONS HAS A INVERT RELATIONHIP TO THE LEVEL OF COMPETITION IN THE SEASON FINALS. Gosh you drive me to despair. 5 spots from WCS KR with only KR players 5 spots from WCS KR with half KR / half NA players 5 spots from WCS EU with mostly EU players and MVP. You're honestly telling me viOlet, Polt, Ryung, HerO, Taeja can't get the top 5 in WCS NA every season lol? I think you should follow the 6 pages of the thread. I've spoke about this issue. Again: BIgger gainers: koreans in foreigner teams; Why? - Flexibility - Easier region - still with same prize pool Gainers: NA + Eu players. Why? - They have their own region - They have a league (at least EU) that deters koreans from joining and has a pretty good prize pool for not having them around Bigger losers: Koreans in korean teams Why? - No flexibility - Harder Region - Still with same prize pool as other nations - Lowered prize pool The Season Finals = Good or bad? Pros: - likelihood of more representatives of other nations Cons: -dilutes level of competition
Compare it to last year. Last year Koreans had no choice at all about where they competed and Foreigners were totally protected from our Korean Overlords until the World Finals.
Comparing this year to last year it is BETTER for Koreans and WORSE for foreigners.
Last year VIBE won $12k just for beating other American players and another $9k for coming second in a pool of only North Americans plus another $2.5k for getting to the Global Final. You think he wouldn't kill to have that chance again? As I'd bet you all the money I own VIBE doesn't make £23.5k from WCS this year even though he has 3 time the tournaments.
And here you are saying it's better for foreigners this year!!!!
The winner of WCS Korea last year won LESS than the winner of WCS America for god sake.
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On April 17 2013 02:07 Canucklehead wrote:
Lol joke prize pool for GSL. 20k for first?! Win more winning an mlg now. What a horrible system blizzard put in place.
Did you not see all the money being awarded in each season finals and the grand finals? If getting 1st at GSL is where the prizes stopped maybe you'd have a point, but it doesn't. They're spreading all the money across multiple finals, and the best players will be paid big.
1st in GSL followed up by 1st in Season Finals is $60k.
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The situation really sucks for Koreans that decided to play in NA or EU and don't make it into Code S.
Just take MVPTails who tries to get into WCS EU right now. There's a realistic chance that he will not make it this season. But he's participated in the qualifiers, so that means that for the rest of the year he cannot even try to get into GSL or OSL. And there are not really any other tournaments (besides team leagues) in Korea. And sending him to a foreign event? Why would his team ever do that, when they can instead send a WCS player who needs some more WCS points to get into the Season/Global finals?
So there's practically nothing for him to do for a full year other than playing a few qualifiers and hoping to get in. That doesn't sound very fun at all.
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On April 17 2013 02:06 rename wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 01:42 PixelNite wrote:
Haha all the koreans complaining about it on Twitter ... Wouldn't have mind Korea to have a bigger pricepool since it's the hardest league. They lost 1 whole season of separate GSL = 160k One separate OSL = 96k Old format WCS Korea/Asia/Finals = 26.5k + 43.2k ( top8 ) + 156k ( top 3) = 225k 3 WCS Code S seasons have 25k in prize money compared to last year GSL'ls = 75k Total 556k money gone from tournaments that are in korea, or are seeded based on KR tournaments. So lets see what they have gained. 3 Global finals ( lets assume they take top4 spots every time) : 240k 1 blizzcon final ( lets assume they will take top8 ) : 210k Total 450k new WCS money - so yeah, those global weekend tourneys dont compensate for the damage done to GSL. Still kind of baffled where the hell Blizzard came up with the " we are putting 3x more money in this year" statement.
Except GOM and Kespa also have the option of running weekend (Western-style) events? Blizzard isn't stopping them from having more tournaments that are individually sponsored.
That said, the entire scene is seeing a reduction in the number of tournaments. MLG isn't holding their Arenas, and IPL is done. If all Korea gets is the current GSL/OSL seasons and their team leagues, then it's a contraction that is in line with the NA scene's contraction.
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Blizzard wants koreans to spread out. It will make NA and EU more interesting. There won't be one ultimate league focused in KR, but that's what they want, and it is probably better for the future of sc2 as an esport.
In the long run, it will probably increase the skill of foreigners.
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On April 17 2013 02:07 rQdjay wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 01:57 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:47 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:44 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:39 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:31 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:26 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:23 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:21 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:15 LighT. wrote:
[quote]
Dont look at it from a countries perspective.
Look at it from the skill perspective.
The top 100 players...
like 90 of them are Korean.
They're clearly deserving of more seeds. You don't want to do that otherwise it will lead to a super-boring competition. Imagine if the world cup only had teams from Europe and South America and that each country could send multiple teams. Brazil II vs. Germany II would be a snoozer of a match because you know that they are the 'B' teams. Why would it lead to a super-boring competition? Enlighten me. Because simply they're from the same nation??? its about level of competition. And lets use your example of world cup. It just supports my argument. Why?? World Cup is biased towards different continents. You dont see NA getting the same # of seeds as Europe or SA. Australia + asia only get like 4 seeds... Yea, it's biased towards different continents, but it's pretty obvious that the skill is only in two of them. Why should New Zealand or North Korea ever show up in the World Cup? It's very analogous to the WCS system where Korea has many more invites than every other country. As to the prize money thing: if Koreans are truly the best players, then they will win the prizes at the regional finals making the reduction in GSL top prize money a non-issue. You do make a solid argument about why most koreans would be deterred from WCS: NA if theyre from Korean league teams unless youre loaded (ie. MC/Nestea/MVP etc) But Korea DOESNT have many more invites than every other country. WCS:KR is basically WCS: Asia, call it WCS:Asia and you'll still have the same result because there isnt a single player outside of Korea (no disrespect to XiGua, Jim and Sen) that would do climb up the ranks otherwise. And Blizzard is giving the equal treatment of seeds by implying WCS: Asia = WCS:NA. How ridiculous is that!! The whole moving to NA/Eu is a big deal. If Koreans want to become a part of the NA/EU scene, they are welcome. We could use more players like Polt. Last I checked, not too many Koreans signed up for the WCS/NA qualifier due to actual obligations. EG-TL can't really participate in the qualifier because it goes from midnight KST until 10:00 am KST the night after a Proleague match. The tower-defense that is the EU qualification tournament right now is also proving that you really can't expect to qualify for another continent's code s by playing a tournament all night. As you mentioned. They cant cause of SPL/GSTL obligations. Especially the SPL teams which has their league spanning the entire year. The greatest benefits are the koreans in foreigner teams because they have more flexibility and leverage. korean teams arent going to suddenly pack their belongings and move to NA , throwing away GSTL/SPL just for a crack at easier competition in WCS:NA. The logistics of that is inane.. Knowing that competition will always be 4-5x greater in WCS:KR than WCS: EU/NA, they should have sorted it accordingly. The thing is... the stated goal of blizzard is to make Koreans and their team houses move to EU/NA. The point is to make SC2 a more global game where your skill level isn't dependent on where you live. If this balances the ladder where the top of the Korean ladder is at the same level as the NA/EU ladder, then mission accomplished. So youre saying the ultimate goal of this is... they want to promote other korean teams to get VISAs for all their players/coaches etc Move into a completely new environment where they will face great cultural barrier/communication/ more expenses + tax Just to even out the playing field? That's not happening. Not happening because again, its not logical to do so. You want to establish team houses in EU/NA? Make a freakin team league..a competent one where its held offline, has large prize pool. You dont necessarily have to take away anything from the KR scene to cultivate growth on other regions but that is quite apparent from what I see right nojw. Jesus dude could you be more negative about this? Do you not understand that Blizzard investing $1.6 Million dollars to give to the players is a great thing for our scene? And they are clearly going to improve the system overtime. Hell it only began a couple of weeks ago and people like you are going batshit crazy about everything Blizzard does saying it is horrible and is going to kill the Korean scene. That obviously isn't true. The fact is that at the end of the road players will earn tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars. Also they are making sure that up and coming players have actually have a GOAL to try and get results. Before this there is no way that a high masters or a low gm would ever think about completely dropping their school/job to try and pursuit becoming a pro gamer. And ontop of that Blizzard is giving more money to tournaments to increase production value. Be grateful for what Blizzard is doing and the fact that they are actively trying to grow our scene and benefit the players. Give it some time man.
I was one of the few defending the idea of WCS when TB/Catz were ranting about it because the details werent in place but now..I can see why there's a large reason to complain about.
I'm not saying Blizzard investing 1.6million dollars is terrible. It's great! Blizzard cares!
What my complaint is that they put in a system that's obviously flawed.
Again; you dont need to take away things from the Korean scene for global growth. This is whats happening right now with the new WCS system. Their idea of growth is "give and take"
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On April 17 2013 02:05 Grettin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 02:01 Killmouse wrote:On April 17 2013 01:55 Grettin wrote:I like this comment on Twitter. Alex Raymond @ClarityShew
That $300 for 1st in WCS challenger league is gonna be the hardest $300 i'm ever gonna work for thaz guy needs to remember that if he gets 1st in challenge league he will have a spot in prem league which gives atleast 1,5k dollar even without winning a map, Sure, but the toughness of the challenger league itself is going to be hard to get that 1st place. Thats more or less the point. Does all that motivate you to try to get trough all the others and get to the next league?
dont u think its better to win a little bit than nothing ? before there wasnt a league for low mid pros ,its his own choice to be a progamer and no one said the life is easy as pro
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On April 17 2013 02:12 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 02:07 rQdjay wrote:On April 17 2013 01:57 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:47 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:44 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:39 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:31 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:26 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:23 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:21 Branman wrote:
[quote]
You don't want to do that otherwise it will lead to a super-boring competition. Imagine if the world cup only had teams from Europe and South America and that each country could send multiple teams. Brazil II vs. Germany II would be a snoozer of a match because you know that they are the 'B' teams. Why would it lead to a super-boring competition? Enlighten me. Because simply they're from the same nation??? its about level of competition. And lets use your example of world cup. It just supports my argument. Why?? World Cup is biased towards different continents. You dont see NA getting the same # of seeds as Europe or SA. Australia + asia only get like 4 seeds... Yea, it's biased towards different continents, but it's pretty obvious that the skill is only in two of them. Why should New Zealand or North Korea ever show up in the World Cup? It's very analogous to the WCS system where Korea has many more invites than every other country. As to the prize money thing: if Koreans are truly the best players, then they will win the prizes at the regional finals making the reduction in GSL top prize money a non-issue. You do make a solid argument about why most koreans would be deterred from WCS: NA if theyre from Korean league teams unless youre loaded (ie. MC/Nestea/MVP etc) But Korea DOESNT have many more invites than every other country. WCS:KR is basically WCS: Asia, call it WCS:Asia and you'll still have the same result because there isnt a single player outside of Korea (no disrespect to XiGua, Jim and Sen) that would do climb up the ranks otherwise. And Blizzard is giving the equal treatment of seeds by implying WCS: Asia = WCS:NA. How ridiculous is that!! The whole moving to NA/Eu is a big deal. If Koreans want to become a part of the NA/EU scene, they are welcome. We could use more players like Polt. Last I checked, not too many Koreans signed up for the WCS/NA qualifier due to actual obligations. EG-TL can't really participate in the qualifier because it goes from midnight KST until 10:00 am KST the night after a Proleague match. The tower-defense that is the EU qualification tournament right now is also proving that you really can't expect to qualify for another continent's code s by playing a tournament all night. As you mentioned. They cant cause of SPL/GSTL obligations. Especially the SPL teams which has their league spanning the entire year. The greatest benefits are the koreans in foreigner teams because they have more flexibility and leverage. korean teams arent going to suddenly pack their belongings and move to NA , throwing away GSTL/SPL just for a crack at easier competition in WCS:NA. The logistics of that is inane.. Knowing that competition will always be 4-5x greater in WCS:KR than WCS: EU/NA, they should have sorted it accordingly. The thing is... the stated goal of blizzard is to make Koreans and their team houses move to EU/NA. The point is to make SC2 a more global game where your skill level isn't dependent on where you live. If this balances the ladder where the top of the Korean ladder is at the same level as the NA/EU ladder, then mission accomplished. So youre saying the ultimate goal of this is... they want to promote other korean teams to get VISAs for all their players/coaches etc Move into a completely new environment where they will face great cultural barrier/communication/ more expenses + tax Just to even out the playing field? That's not happening. Not happening because again, its not logical to do so. You want to establish team houses in EU/NA? Make a freakin team league..a competent one where its held offline, has large prize pool. You dont necessarily have to take away anything from the KR scene to cultivate growth on other regions but that is quite apparent from what I see right nojw. Jesus dude could you be more negative about this? Do you not understand that Blizzard investing $1.6 Million dollars to give to the players is a great thing for our scene? And they are clearly going to improve the system overtime. Hell it only began a couple of weeks ago and people like you are going batshit crazy about everything Blizzard does saying it is horrible and is going to kill the Korean scene. That obviously isn't true. The fact is that at the end of the road players will earn tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars. Also they are making sure that up and coming players have actually have a GOAL to try and get results. Before this there is no way that a high masters or a low gm would ever think about completely dropping their school/job to try and pursuit becoming a pro gamer. And ontop of that Blizzard is giving more money to tournaments to increase production value. Be grateful for what Blizzard is doing and the fact that they are actively trying to grow our scene and benefit the players. Give it some time man. I was one of the few defending the idea of WCS when TB/Catz were ranting about it because the details werent in place but now..I can see why there's a large reason to complain about. I'm not saying Blizzard investing 1.6million dollars is terrible. It's great! Blizzard cares! What my complaint is that they put in a system that's obviously flawed. Again; you dont need to take away things from the Korean scene for global growth. This is whats happening right now with the new WCS system. Their idea of growth is "give and take"
Nothing is stopping the Korean scene from holding their own weekend tournaments. GOM worked with IPL and learned how to hold something like that, so it's not Blizzard's fault if the Korean scene doesn't want to expand their own tournament scene.
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On April 17 2013 02:12 LighT. wrote:
Again; you dont need to take away things from the Korean scene for global growth. This is whats happening right now with the new WCS system. Their idea of growth is "give and take"
Lets be honest, nothing was taken away from Koreans. They will still place highly at season finals and will probably represent most of the global finals. Add up the prize money and it's very large.
Plus, they get WAY more money in Challenger league than NA/EU does as well as more points for it too.
I'd call the system pretty fair right now.
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Well guys, Let's think differently. Koreans will win every season finals and blizzcon anyway.
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On April 17 2013 02:09 MVTaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 02:07 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 02:01 MVTaylor wrote:On April 17 2013 01:40 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:33 MVTaylor wrote:On April 17 2013 01:24 LighT. wrote:
It's essentially a trade off.
It's either..
DO YOU WANT MORE REPRESENTATIVES FROM OTHER NATIONS OTHER THAN KOREA?
or....
DO YOU WANT TO SEE MORE HIGHER LEVEL COMPETITION? No it fucking isn't for god sake. Before this year WCS announcement we had the GSL and nothing for foreigners and after ti we STILL have the GSL, some tournaments MOSTLY for foreigners then 3 Seasonal Finals and 1 Yearly Grand final. So, we get more representatives from other countries, but obviously less than lass year AND we get more high level competition with more tournaments. No....youre wrong. So completely wrong You arent getting my freakin point. WCS: NA = 5 Seeds WCS: KR = 5 Seeds Although 5=5 may look like balance. IT ISNT. Am I complaining that there's a WCS:NA? NO. So dont bring that up. In the Seasons Finals and Blizzcon, by equating the seeds for each region, you're dropping off the level of competition. Tell me that a 5th place WCS:KR player is equivalent in skill to a 5th place of a WCS: EU Player. WCS: Korea or...might as well call it WCS: Asia CLEARLY deserves some sort of advantage or perks because it's the most competitive BY FAR. But there isnt. A Flash or a Rain = Goody? Thorzain?? Dont make me laugh. Again stressing my point: MORE REPRESENTATIVES FROM OTHER NATIONS HAS A INVERT RELATIONHIP TO THE LEVEL OF COMPETITION IN THE SEASON FINALS. Gosh you drive me to despair. 5 spots from WCS KR with only KR players 5 spots from WCS KR with half KR / half NA players 5 spots from WCS EU with mostly EU players and MVP. You're honestly telling me viOlet, Polt, Ryung, HerO, Taeja can't get the top 5 in WCS NA every season lol? I think you should follow the 6 pages of the thread. I've spoke about this issue. Again: BIgger gainers: koreans in foreigner teams; Why? - Flexibility - Easier region - still with same prize pool Gainers: NA + Eu players. Why? - They have their own region - They have a league (at least EU) that deters koreans from joining and has a pretty good prize pool for not having them around Bigger losers: Koreans in korean teams Why? - No flexibility - Harder Region - Still with same prize pool as other nations - Lowered prize pool The Season Finals = Good or bad? Pros: - likelihood of more representatives of other nations Cons: -dilutes level of competition Compare it to last year. Last year Koreans had no choice at all about where they competed and Foreigners were totally protected from our Korean Overlords until the World Finals. Comparing this year to last year it is BETTER for Koreans and WORSE for foreigners. Last year VIBE won $12k just for beating other American players and another $9k for coming second in a pool of only North Americans plus another $2.5k for getting to the Global Final. You think he wouldn't kill to have that chance again? As I'd bet you all the money I own VIBE doens't make £23.5k from WCS this year. And here you are saying it's better for foreigners this year!!!!
I think my final point isnt much about the foreigners in general but more about how they're regressing the korean scene.
Tell me...from what I wrote:
"Bigger losers: Koreans in korean teams
Why?
- No flexibility
- Harder Region
- Still with same prize pool as other nations
- Lowered prize pool"
Why does this have to happen? And why do they have to equal WCS:NA and WCS:EU in terms of prize money...and have no perks whatsoever?
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On April 17 2013 02:10 Branman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 02:06 rename wrote:On April 17 2013 01:42 PixelNite wrote:
Haha all the koreans complaining about it on Twitter ... Wouldn't have mind Korea to have a bigger pricepool since it's the hardest league. They lost 1 whole season of separate GSL = 160k One separate OSL = 96k Old format WCS Korea/Asia/Finals = 26.5k + 43.2k ( top8 ) + 156k ( top 3) = 225k 3 WCS Code S seasons have 25k in prize money compared to last year GSL'ls = 75k Total 556k money gone from tournaments that are in korea, or are seeded based on KR tournaments. So lets see what they have gained. 3 Global finals ( lets assume they take top4 spots every time) : 240k 1 blizzcon final ( lets assume they will take top8 ) : 210k Total 450k new WCS money - so yeah, those global weekend tourneys dont compensate for the damage done to GSL. Still kind of baffled where the hell Blizzard came up with the " we are putting 3x more money in this year" statement. Except GOM and Kespa also have the option of running weekend (Western-style) events? Blizzard isn't stopping them from having more tournaments that are individually sponsored. That said, the entire scene is seeing a reduction in the number of tournaments. MLG isn't holding their Arenas, and IPL is done. If all Korea gets is the current GSL/OSL seasons and their team leagues, then it's a contraction that is in line with the NA scene's contraction.
Except sponsors would pay much less for tourneys that just last a weekend, compared to several months - so there is much less incentive to run them.
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Basically, things have gotten worse for virtually every Korean player. You can say all you want about how winning both GSL and season finals amounts to more money, but there have been so few repeat winners in the GSL that this is incredibly unlikely even for the best players since the skill gap is so small between the top players. So basically, if you're one of the best players in Korea, you now have to win two tournaments in order to get pretty much the same money as you got for winning one before. And it's not like the GSL got any easier, either. So basically it sucks to be a Korean.
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On April 17 2013 02:12 LighT. wrote:
Again; you dont need to take away things from the Korean scene for global growth. This is whats happening right now with the new WCS system. Their idea of growth is "give and take"
Please elaborate on what Blizzard is taking away from the Korean scene. Because to me it seems you are equating not giving them extra priviledges to taking things away.
What comes to GSL pricepools, ever thought that the old ones wouldn't be sustainable in the first place?
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On April 17 2013 01:40 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 01:33 MVTaylor wrote:On April 17 2013 01:24 LighT. wrote:
It's essentially a trade off.
It's either..
DO YOU WANT MORE REPRESENTATIVES FROM OTHER NATIONS OTHER THAN KOREA?
or....
DO YOU WANT TO SEE MORE HIGHER LEVEL COMPETITION? No it fucking isn't for god sake. Before this year WCS announcement we had the GSL and nothing for foreigners and after ti we STILL have the GSL, some tournaments MOSTLY for foreigners then 3 Seasonal Finals and 1 Yearly Grand final. So, we get more representatives from other countries, but obviously less than lass year AND we get more high level competition with more tournaments. No....youre wrong. So completely wrong You arent getting my freakin point. WCS: NA = 5 Seeds WCS: KR = 5 Seeds Although 5=5 may look like balance. IT ISNT. Am I complaining that there's a WCS:NA? NO. So dont bring that up. In the Seasons Finals and Blizzcon, by equating the seeds for each region, you're dropping off the level of competition. Tell me that a 5th place WCS:KR player is equivalent in skill to a 5th place of a WCS: EU Player. WCS: Korea or...might as well call it WCS: Asia CLEARLY deserves some sort of advantage or perks because it's the most competitive BY FAR. But there isnt. A Flash or a Rain = Goody? Thorzain?? Dont make me laugh. Again stressing my point: MORE REPRESENTATIVES FROM OTHER NATIONS HAS A INVERT RELATIONHIP TO THE LEVEL OF COMPETITION IN THE SEASON FINALS.
Get real dude. There is currently as many GSL Code S Gold medals in WCS EU Premier as there is in Code S. And why would you assume someone like Goody will be in top 5? It would more likely be something like: Mvp, MMM, Stephano, Naniwa (who made it to Code S ro8 twice in a row) and Ret.
There is a pretty substantial difference between EU and NA, and quite of a few of the European players can beat Koreans, especially those Koreans who play in WCS NA.
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On April 17 2013 02:17 rename wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 02:10 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 02:06 rename wrote:On April 17 2013 01:42 PixelNite wrote:
Haha all the koreans complaining about it on Twitter ... Wouldn't have mind Korea to have a bigger pricepool since it's the hardest league. They lost 1 whole season of separate GSL = 160k One separate OSL = 96k Old format WCS Korea/Asia/Finals = 26.5k + 43.2k ( top8 ) + 156k ( top 3) = 225k 3 WCS Code S seasons have 25k in prize money compared to last year GSL'ls = 75k Total 556k money gone from tournaments that are in korea, or are seeded based on KR tournaments. So lets see what they have gained. 3 Global finals ( lets assume they take top4 spots every time) : 240k 1 blizzcon final ( lets assume they will take top8 ) : 210k Total 450k new WCS money - so yeah, those global weekend tourneys dont compensate for the damage done to GSL. Still kind of baffled where the hell Blizzard came up with the " we are putting 3x more money in this year" statement. Except GOM and Kespa also have the option of running weekend (Western-style) events? Blizzard isn't stopping them from having more tournaments that are individually sponsored. That said, the entire scene is seeing a reduction in the number of tournaments. MLG isn't holding their Arenas, and IPL is done. If all Korea gets is the current GSL/OSL seasons and their team leagues, then it's a contraction that is in line with the NA scene's contraction. Except sponsors would pay much less for tourneys that just last a weekend, compared to several months - so there is much less incentive to run them.
Currently weekend in Korea is occupied by GSTL and proleague. I don't think there is any room for such tournament and they really don't need such.
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NASL sniping top english stream from official WCS channel. #smart
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NA and EU having an easier time on the pros that they wont risk to fall out of "premier league".
The point distribution looks really iffy to me because if you are a player in the challenger league in Korea you wont necessary have to access to the non WCS tournaments, ie no shot at making the Finals but the top tier more popular players and on certain teams will have a feast on them points.
But time will tell how it turns out, that NA/EU don't play by the same rules as KR is pissing me off some.
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On April 17 2013 02:15 Branman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 02:12 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 02:07 rQdjay wrote:On April 17 2013 01:57 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:47 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:44 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:39 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:31 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 01:26 Branman wrote:On April 17 2013 01:23 LighT. wrote:
[quote]
Why would it lead to a super-boring competition?
Enlighten me.
Because simply they're from the same nation???
its about level of competition.
And lets use your example of world cup.
It just supports my argument.
Why??
World Cup is biased towards different continents.
You dont see NA getting the same # of seeds as Europe or SA.
Australia + asia only get like 4 seeds...
Yea, it's biased towards different continents, but it's pretty obvious that the skill is only in two of them. Why should New Zealand or North Korea ever show up in the World Cup? It's very analogous to the WCS system where Korea has many more invites than every other country. As to the prize money thing: if Koreans are truly the best players, then they will win the prizes at the regional finals making the reduction in GSL top prize money a non-issue. You do make a solid argument about why most koreans would be deterred from WCS: NA if theyre from Korean league teams unless youre loaded (ie. MC/Nestea/MVP etc) But Korea DOESNT have many more invites than every other country. WCS:KR is basically WCS: Asia, call it WCS:Asia and you'll still have the same result because there isnt a single player outside of Korea (no disrespect to XiGua, Jim and Sen) that would do climb up the ranks otherwise. And Blizzard is giving the equal treatment of seeds by implying WCS: Asia = WCS:NA. How ridiculous is that!! The whole moving to NA/Eu is a big deal. If Koreans want to become a part of the NA/EU scene, they are welcome. We could use more players like Polt. Last I checked, not too many Koreans signed up for the WCS/NA qualifier due to actual obligations. EG-TL can't really participate in the qualifier because it goes from midnight KST until 10:00 am KST the night after a Proleague match. The tower-defense that is the EU qualification tournament right now is also proving that you really can't expect to qualify for another continent's code s by playing a tournament all night. As you mentioned. They cant cause of SPL/GSTL obligations. Especially the SPL teams which has their league spanning the entire year. The greatest benefits are the koreans in foreigner teams because they have more flexibility and leverage. korean teams arent going to suddenly pack their belongings and move to NA , throwing away GSTL/SPL just for a crack at easier competition in WCS:NA. The logistics of that is inane.. Knowing that competition will always be 4-5x greater in WCS:KR than WCS: EU/NA, they should have sorted it accordingly. The thing is... the stated goal of blizzard is to make Koreans and their team houses move to EU/NA. The point is to make SC2 a more global game where your skill level isn't dependent on where you live. If this balances the ladder where the top of the Korean ladder is at the same level as the NA/EU ladder, then mission accomplished. So youre saying the ultimate goal of this is... they want to promote other korean teams to get VISAs for all their players/coaches etc Move into a completely new environment where they will face great cultural barrier/communication/ more expenses + tax Just to even out the playing field? That's not happening. Not happening because again, its not logical to do so. You want to establish team houses in EU/NA? Make a freakin team league..a competent one where its held offline, has large prize pool. You dont necessarily have to take away anything from the KR scene to cultivate growth on other regions but that is quite apparent from what I see right nojw. Jesus dude could you be more negative about this? Do you not understand that Blizzard investing $1.6 Million dollars to give to the players is a great thing for our scene? And they are clearly going to improve the system overtime. Hell it only began a couple of weeks ago and people like you are going batshit crazy about everything Blizzard does saying it is horrible and is going to kill the Korean scene. That obviously isn't true. The fact is that at the end of the road players will earn tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars. Also they are making sure that up and coming players have actually have a GOAL to try and get results. Before this there is no way that a high masters or a low gm would ever think about completely dropping their school/job to try and pursuit becoming a pro gamer. And ontop of that Blizzard is giving more money to tournaments to increase production value. Be grateful for what Blizzard is doing and the fact that they are actively trying to grow our scene and benefit the players. Give it some time man. I was one of the few defending the idea of WCS when TB/Catz were ranting about it because the details werent in place but now..I can see why there's a large reason to complain about. I'm not saying Blizzard investing 1.6million dollars is terrible. It's great! Blizzard cares! What my complaint is that they put in a system that's obviously flawed. Again; you dont need to take away things from the Korean scene for global growth. This is whats happening right now with the new WCS system. Their idea of growth is "give and take" Nothing is stopping the Korean scene from holding their own weekend tournaments. GOM worked with IPL and learned how to hold something like that, so it's not Blizzard's fault if the Korean scene doesn't want to expand their own tournament scene.
They HAD that. GSL and OSL was their thing.
But they decided to combined GSL/OSL for the co-operation of OGN and GomTV. (Fine, this is good..OGN and GomTV do have to work together)
THen they decide to turn essentially...what was their korean league into: WCS:KR.
Look at MLG, they gained a tournament.
MLG weekends are still going to be in place. But another tournament has been sprouted in MLG:WCS:NA
IEM weekends are still going to be in place + Deramhack. ANother tournament been sprouted in IEM:WCS:EU
Now..the korean scene..
GSL + OSL, combined to make WCS:KR and they took away their high prize money pool, the prestige of winning those titles (the rich history or oov/Flash/boxer/MVP) and Korea gains nothing from it outside of having some games broadcasted on OGN.
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On April 17 2013 01:37 MVTaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 01:35 starslayer wrote:
Finally makes his name in the qualifier yesterday and now finds he's $1.5k richer, even if he doesn't win another map!
im sorry but if thats true thats just dumb thats a lot of money just to qualify i mean good for bunny and im gald there trying to help out the lesser known players but just cause you got into the tourney doesnt mean you should get money, you should need to actually win more to be placed into the money atleast top 8 not the quailfers but besides that cool i guess 24-32nd placers in Premier League get $1.5k... it's right there... Crazy went 0-4 in the GSL WCS KR last week and will get his $1.5k...
ok and i think crazy shouldnt get money either 0-4 are you kidding me come on its saying its ok to lose
edit once again i get there trying to help the no names that are putting there life on hold to play this game but come on... again placing 24 - 32nd is just bad maybe a lil money but 1.5k for losing 0-4 or getting into a quailfers shouldnt be getting a prize
edit crazy is in code s one of the hardest tourneys in the world i get he got knocked out 0-4 but he atleast made it to code s where bunny or w.e just made it through the qualifiers not the same at all
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EPT
