|
On April 19 2013 03:23 Canucklehead wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 03:04 Plansix wrote:On April 19 2013 02:30 Canucklehead wrote:On April 19 2013 01:30 Shinta) wrote:On April 18 2013 03:44 Canucklehead wrote:
This is like tennis paying out the same prize pool for winning a random tennis tournament and winning wimbledon or golf paying the same for a lesser golf tourney and the masters. Makes no sense, other than affirmative action for foreigners and giving them charity money. lol what? Actually it's more like tennis paying out the same prize pool for Wimbledon, Rolland Garros, the US Open and the Aus Open, which would make a lot of sense. Also, it's like having other, smaller tournaments pay out less money, while giving points to qualify for those few major tournaments. Huh you just named 4 tennis majors? Majors have all the top players going to them, whether it be tennis or golf. Tiger woods, federer etc don't go to all tournaments, but always go to the majors. I don't consider WCS NA and WCS EU to be majors in terms of skill. It's artificially made into a "major" by blizzard with their prize pool. I think you're confusing prize pool in a tournament with skill. Last year WCS finals gave out 100k to the winner. Are you going to try to tell me that was the most skillful tournament because it had the highest prize pool for the year? The competition there was a farce and parting won it by beating only 1 kr. I guess all events could change their rules where their prize pool was based directly on the number of Koreans that signed up if that would make you happy. Yes, it would as I've already pointed out before, I would be completely fine with a hard region lock if the NA/EU prizepool was 33% of the KR one. Then the prizepool would reflect more appropriately on the skill level in it. That is how it works in other sports.
Yes, but those sports are far more established and have a bunch of different revenue sources coming in for both teams and players. That is not the case for most of the SC2 scene in NA and EU. And the league isn't about providing the players with prize money based on their skill level, it is entertainment. Providing sufficient prize money per region to attract skilled players and new potential talent to play in the event.
|
On April 19 2013 02:30 Canucklehead wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 01:30 Shinta) wrote:On April 18 2013 03:44 Canucklehead wrote:
This is like tennis paying out the same prize pool for winning a random tennis tournament and winning wimbledon or golf paying the same for a lesser golf tourney and the masters. Makes no sense, other than affirmative action for foreigners and giving them charity money. lol what? Actually it's more like tennis paying out the same prize pool for Wimbledon, Rolland Garros, the US Open and the Aus Open, which would make a lot of sense. Also, it's like having other, smaller tournaments pay out less money, while giving points to qualify for those few major tournaments. Huh you just named 4 tennis majors? Majors have all the top players going to them, whether it be tennis or golf. Tiger woods, federer etc don't go to all tournaments, but always go to the majors. I don't consider WCS NA and WCS EU to be majors in terms of skill. It's artificially made into a "major" by blizzard with their prize pool. I think you're confusing prize pool in a tournament with skill. Last year WCS finals gave out 100k to the winner. Are you going to try to tell me that was the most skillful tournament because it had the highest prize pool for the year? The competition there was a farce and parting won it by beating only 1 kr.
Pretty much everything I say is opposite to that actually. Nobody should care about giving away 100k to first place. That's just retarded in itself and hurts stalls the growth of eSports.
These are the "majors", whether everyone else likes it or not, and the system is very similar to that of tennis and golf. The main difference is that eSports is trying to make the transition into being a stable field of work whereas tennis and golf are already established fields. Because if this, they region block the majors to help the growth of each region without hurting any other region.
I don't care how many people complain about how GSL got fucked over, because it didn't. You now have 1st and 2nd place making less money (but if you actually stop to think, you don't need more money than that if you're looking to make a nice living), and everyone else is making more money than before. Also, more people are making money than before.
Talking more about points, you don't need more Koreans to be seeded into the world finals. That would mean:
1) you'd have to give away even more money on the world finals which they don't want to. Reason for that is that the whole point of this system is to globalize the game. Giving all the money to Koreans doesn't benefit eSports as a whole. SO to give to people who need it more, they'd have to expand the prize pool which they can't/won't yet.
2) The Koreans that are on top are on top yo... They are the ones who are going to deserve the shot to make extra money. If you didn't acquire the points to be on top, they you don't get the shot to compete for the money!!
The majority of the money still goes to the Koreans, since they will win the higher places in the world finals, BUT NA/EU need money too, so having them compete equally makes sense. Everyone earns money, Koreans earn more money. Everyone a likey yes?
I'm at work so I'm only using small breaks to make my replies, let me know what I didn't talk about and I'll give my response when I can.
|
On April 19 2013 01:30 Shinta) wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 03:44 Canucklehead wrote:
This is like tennis paying out the same prize pool for winning a random tennis tournament and winning wimbledon or golf paying the same for a lesser golf tourney and the masters. Makes no sense, other than affirmative action for foreigners and giving them charity money. lol what? Actually it's more like tennis paying out the same prize pool for Wimbledon, Rolland Garros, the US Open and the Aus Open, which would make a lot of sense. Also, it's like having other, smaller tournaments pay out less money, while giving points to qualify for those few major tournaments.
Yeah, that's how it works in EU and NA, while in Korea, there are no other tournaments anymore.
|
On April 19 2013 05:00 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 01:30 Shinta) wrote:On April 18 2013 03:44 Canucklehead wrote:
This is like tennis paying out the same prize pool for winning a random tennis tournament and winning wimbledon or golf paying the same for a lesser golf tourney and the masters. Makes no sense, other than affirmative action for foreigners and giving them charity money. lol what? Actually it's more like tennis paying out the same prize pool for Wimbledon, Rolland Garros, the US Open and the Aus Open, which would make a lot of sense. Also, it's like having other, smaller tournaments pay out less money, while giving points to qualify for those few major tournaments. Yeah, that's how it works in EU and NA, while in Korea, there are no other tournaments anymore.
Erg what? Those tournaments are like DreamHack, NASL, Iron Squid, etc. which ofc Koreans will be playing....
I don't understand what misconception you're having to think that your statement is valid.
On top of Koreans having every other tournament available to them, they also have PL which is pretty much Korean (KeSPA) only.
|
What I'm saying is, that there are no Korean individual tournaments aside from the 3 WCS ones anymore. That's the truth without any misconception.
|
On April 19 2013 17:09 blackone wrote:
What I'm saying is, that there are no Korean individual tournaments aside from the 3 WCS ones anymore. That's the truth without any misconception.
I can confirm this.
The only other tournaments they play are stuff like Acer Teamstory cup etc.
|
On April 19 2013 17:13 Grovbolle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 17:09 blackone wrote:
What I'm saying is, that there are no Korean individual tournaments aside from the 3 WCS ones anymore. That's the truth without any misconception. I can confirm this. The only other tournaments they play are stuff like Acer Teamstory cup etc.
Well there must be a market for it. Grab ur chance!
|
On April 19 2013 17:09 blackone wrote:
What I'm saying is, that there are no Korean individual tournaments aside from the 3 WCS ones anymore. That's the truth without any misconception.
So why did you quote me to post that? The info wasn't useful as a response to my post.
That's fine, I know that aside from GSL, there is no individual tournament in Korea. It's been like that for pretty much all of SC2 if you don't count the smaller semipro tournaments that were played occasionally.
Maybe you were trying to just point out that there is no more IPL? and that Koreans can't participate in MLG anymore (which won't be a big deal, and will probably do Koreans more good than bad). If so, then it's the same for NA and EU players. Everyone is in the same situation, so it's pretty bogus to bring it up as a point.
|
On April 20 2013 04:53 Shinta) wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 17:09 blackone wrote:
What I'm saying is, that there are no Korean individual tournaments aside from the 3 WCS ones anymore. That's the truth without any misconception. So why did you quote me to post that? The info wasn't useful as a response to my post. That's fine, I know that aside from GSL, there is no individual tournament in Korea. It's been like that for pretty much all of SC2 if you don't count the smaller semipro tournaments that were played occasionally. Maybe you were trying to just point out that there is no more IPL? and that Koreans can't participate in MLG anymore (which won't be a big deal, and will probably do Koreans more good than bad). If so, then it's the same for NA and EU players. Everyone is in the same situation, so it's pretty bogus to bring it up as a point.
Koreans can participate in MLG. I don't know why you think that. MLG events are completely independent of the WCS system just like Dreamhack or IEM.
|
On April 20 2013 04:53 Shinta) wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 17:09 blackone wrote:
What I'm saying is, that there are no Korean individual tournaments aside from the 3 WCS ones anymore. That's the truth without any misconception. So why did you quote me to post that? The info wasn't useful as a response to my post. That's fine, I know that aside from GSL, there is no individual tournament in Korea. It's been like that for pretty much all of SC2 if you don't count the smaller semipro tournaments that were played occasionally. Maybe you were trying to just point out that there is no more IPL? and that Koreans can't participate in MLG anymore (which won't be a big deal, and will probably do Koreans more good than bad). If so, then it's the same for NA and EU players. Everyone is in the same situation, so it's pretty bogus to bring it up as a point.
No, none of that, I'm pointing out that EU and NA gained tournaments, while Korea lost tournaments. That's what makes my previous statement valid and that's why I quoted you.
|
On April 20 2013 18:45 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2013 04:53 Shinta) wrote:On April 19 2013 17:09 blackone wrote:
What I'm saying is, that there are no Korean individual tournaments aside from the 3 WCS ones anymore. That's the truth without any misconception. So why did you quote me to post that? The info wasn't useful as a response to my post. That's fine, I know that aside from GSL, there is no individual tournament in Korea. It's been like that for pretty much all of SC2 if you don't count the smaller semipro tournaments that were played occasionally. Maybe you were trying to just point out that there is no more IPL? and that Koreans can't participate in MLG anymore (which won't be a big deal, and will probably do Koreans more good than bad). If so, then it's the same for NA and EU players. Everyone is in the same situation, so it's pretty bogus to bring it up as a point. No, none of that, I'm pointing out that EU and NA gained tournaments, while Korea lost tournaments. That's what makes my previous statement valid and that's why I quoted you.
Which tournaments are you talking about?
|
Does anyone else feel like WCS is going to wind up being a massive flop? Like it is going to be an unnecessary extension of the GSL that separates the good players into 3 regions, but reducing the quality of the players who would wind up being at the end of a GSL? Meaning that at the end of the GSL the top players are in Code S, but with the finals of WCS the very top of the Korean talent will be represented for Korea, but the weaker Koreans in EU/NA will make it through because they're no longer forced to make it through GSL's lower leagues to get the top spot instead they can face a much weaker foreign talent pool. In the end many players who attempted to make it through the GSL who didn't make the cut and are probably better than the Koreans in EU/NA are left sitting on the bench? Also out of those Koreans who play in EU/NA if there are a few truly great players among them it also weakens the GSL because they're not there in the next season. Don't both tournaments then have an overall weaker quality of players which makes not only the WCS champ, but the GSL champ less prestigious? I'm not saying the winners are bad, but that the talent pool that they had to face is weaker because of this.
|
On April 26 2013 23:41 NoobSkills wrote:
Does anyone else feel like WCS is going to wind up being a massive flop? Like it is going to be an unnecessary extension of the GSL that separates the good players into 3 regions, but reducing the quality of the players who would wind up being at the end of a GSL? Meaning that at the end of the GSL the top players are in Code S, but with the finals of WCS the very top of the Korean talent will be represented for Korea, but the weaker Koreans in EU/NA will make it through because they're no longer forced to make it through GSL's lower leagues to get the top spot instead they can face a much weaker foreign talent pool. In the end many players who attempted to make it through the GSL who didn't make the cut and are probably better than the Koreans in EU/NA are left sitting on the bench? Also out of those Koreans who play in EU/NA if there are a few truly great players among them it also weakens the GSL because they're not there in the next season. Don't both tournaments then have an overall weaker quality of players which makes not only the WCS champ, but the GSL champ less prestigious? I'm not saying the winners are bad, but that the talent pool that they had to face is weaker because of this.
I guess that could be one of many outcomes, but i don't think it is going to be bad. Blizzard, GOM, ELS and MLG will adjust and tweek WSC until it make sense. The whole diminishing player talent and loss of prestige are such abstract and subjective arguments that I don't really worry about them. As long as people are watching and there is a reason to play and win, the players will bring their A game.
|
according to the point system
gumiho has to lock himself to top 4 in Dreamhack +
get 3rd position to lock himself a position for season finals.
Pretty good deal.
|
United Kingdom14103 Posts
On April 17 2013 01:21 Branman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 01:15 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 00:59 aike wrote:On April 17 2013 00:46 LighT. wrote:
Biggest complaint:
Theres no bias towards Korea although there should be a little bit of leverage towards them. One country gets 5 spots. NA has 35 countries. EU has 50 countries. Plus the random other countries in africa/asia/SEA. So like 100 countries get 10 spots. Hmmm. Korea has no bias? ON TOP of the fact that koreans are invited to premier leagues of NA and EU? Dont look at it from a countries perspective. Look at it from the skill perspective. The top 100 players... like 90 of them are Korean. They're clearly deserving of more seeds. You don't want to do that otherwise it will lead to a super-boring competition. Imagine if the world cup only had teams from Europe and South America and that each country could send multiple teams. Brazil II vs. Germany II would be a snoozer of a match because you know that they are the 'B' teams.
This has got to be the worst analogy ever.
Just.. what?
I kinda wish KR offered a little more to win there, it will be a lot harder.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
