On April 13 2013 16:23 Ejohrik wrote: I agree fully with the OP. There was pretty much an outrage in the Twitch chat during one of the Code S broadcasts, because Tasteless just kept bringing up irrelevant subjects, not giving Artosis a chance to say anything related to StarCraft 2 for almost 10 minutes into a game.
I get your point, but I dunno if that's the best example to use. Because Tasteless and Artosis "wasting time" during downtime is actually pretty darned entertaining most of the time. And they are the best in the business when it comes to being funny and entertaining while nothing much is going on. It's all too rare in SC2 casting and they should be commended for it.
But in other leagues, downtime is a huge problem, I agree. NASL is pretty good with downtime, though.
I agree that taking the opinions of "stream monsters" too seriously is not a great idea. Just the fact that they are in the chat means they aren't watchin full-screen and might be more interesting in socializing than watching the actual game.
However, I wouldn't call the first 10 minute of a StarCraft 2 game "downtime". Sure, the players are probably mostly following pre-set build orders but there is still a game going on for the casters to commentate on. There is always something happening.
On April 13 2013 18:44 mrRoflpwn wrote: For me and for many others- the best part of Code S is the jokes from Tasteless during the down time.
For me and for many others- the best part of Code S is the professional StarCraft 2 being played.
On April 13 2013 18:50 Skiblet wrote: I think to be honest that so many people are focusing on making E-sports a "sport". No. This is wrong. E-sports is esports, those who watch/enjoy it all enjoy gaming in general. We are not sportsman for the most part, nor should we mold the way we broadcast our tournaments to fit sporting standards. Football or Rugby viewers for the most part wont watch SC2 tournaments, likewise SC2 tournament watchers wouldn't watch football or rugby as often.
What I'm trying to say is e-sports is e-sports, not a sport. Lets keep it like that.
I watch a lot of sports, mainly football and whatever my country has a chance of performing well at. For example cross country skiing, ice hockey and handball. Judging from the amount of sports-related threads on TL, I don't think I'm the only E-sports fan who also watches a lot of traditional sports.
I probably won't say what hasn't already been said, but criticisms in this manner tend to fail to take into account the simple issue of practicality and resource management. All of your suggestions are good ones; and I agree that sometimes a discussion about random american pop culture item during the early stages of a game can get a little silly. When Artosis says "Tasteless, talk to me," and Tasteless just makes up some random nonsense to talk about off the top of his head, that can get pretty awkward at times. However, not all commentator pairs can get away with that, so it seems to have its place in the GSL at the moment.
While your points are good ones, we have to remember that this is in actuality a video game. It doesn't appeal to the same sensibilities as professional football. It's a game that operates under a completely different sphere of entertainment. When budgets grow, functionality increases, and studios will start adapting to new demands. I think you're right though, overall... the time is approaching for the spectator experience to grow (the UI changes are a good step in the right direction) along with the sport in general.
All good points but first off you sound like a spoilt child and secondly all those things cost money. You want picture in picture then you are going to need a second observing computer with someone to at least be able to consistently be around to get the extra shot. Not to mention you have triple pronged attacks so then what? 3 Observing computers just in case. And typically there won't be much interesting to watch at the drop cause the terran will set it up and just jump back to stim and position the units then thats it. Screen space taken up by watching a drop is better spent watching the main engagement imo
And suggestions like your Parting example - well he will play a maximum of 9 games in GSL group play for example. Are casters meant to go over things again and again each match? Then what about next round he plays? Do they assume nobody saw any of the previous matches?
Tastosis only have their random conversations when nothing note worthy is going on - majority of people know exactly what is happening in the opening of a standard ZvP for example but when the zerg decidees he is going to 10 pool the casters will stop and go hang on we have a 10 pool! for example.
Also comparisons to sports like football or baseball etc are not relevant to SC2 i'm sorry. Number of viewers, amount of money as well as number of games played means it simply does not apply.
I don't want picture in picture aka MLG style which can ruin the whole experience especially if you are watching on a computer monitor say like 24" or smaller. I think MLG is the only tournament that are currently using picture in picture to the spectators horror.
I think MLG has clearly proven that picture in picture and over-analyzing replays to death do not improve the viewing experience. Quite the contrary .....
I dislike picture in picture immensely. Having 1 observer creating the viewing experience is enough. It allows me as the viewer to have an easier time following the action that's happening, as well as having the casters have a clear direction in commentating the game. Having more is a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth.
Picture in picture would be awesome (hello, Scoots ) and less downtime would be very much so appreciated... I disagree with the banter, though. Good and funny banter can make or break a caster/duo, imo.
I'm personally more interested in hearing about some awesome game from the past, a funny side-note about some random thing or some jokes rather than: "Well, we see here that Life has a 63% winrate with a very aggressive playstyle... That is a good indicator for him being a total badass player! Something we totally didn't know before, I swear!" or "Flash's average unspent ressources are incredibly low, he is an absolute macro beast! Betcha didn't know that." That is not to say that they shouldn't bring in statistics but rather that I don't think focusing on stats is really important enough to get rid of the awesomeness that is the silliness of good banter.
If there's one thing that totally irks me, it's probably though the excitement in most casts. Raise your voice when something awesome is happening, what's wrong with you? Don't be like "Great fungals on those bio-units, enabling the banelings just melted everything in their path to victory." in this rather monotone-ish analytical voice, be like "Fungal growth on all the bio and HERE COME THE BANELINGS, ROLLING ON IN AND MELTING ABSOLUTELY E-V'RY-THING IN THEIR WAAYYYY! OH MY GOD!". It IS possible to get excited, even if you are/wanna be a "analytical" and knowledgeable caster, so please just give it a try. Or maybe it was just because of the rather stale WoL games that kinda sucked out the life from casters - it did and does kinda get better now with HotS, so maybe that point will become invalid. Well... Or maybe the LCS casters have just re-spoiled (after BW semi-died) me with their level of enthusiasm.
For the lull section I'd prefer to hear more about behind the scenes stuff and how the industry is doing, news etc. rather than statistics game after game.
On April 13 2013 11:48 IAmSlide wrote: Imagine if instead of talking about what their favorite RPG is, they showed and discussed a graphic like the one below.
At some point, it would get much more boring. There is a limit on how much stats most people can care about, and some people dont want statistics at all.
Also when i followed x-country skiing there was plenty of yapping about weather, scenery and what happened to this athlete at his hotel room, and so on so starcraft is not alone in filling downtime with chitchat.
... that said, it would be nice if casters could pull up stats on demand every now and then to talk about those - some of that downtime could indeed use more stats.
I don't really think that's true.
I mean, commentators never really stop talking about player stats and peculiarities in other sports and most fans love it. It gives depth and a sense of expanse to the games. Of course, to those die hard fans who already know the bulk of the information it'd be redundant material... but that's a niche audience that'll be happy with the high level games anyways.
Of course, that's not to say they repeat the player stats and styles and lifestyle choices in the lobby of every game, but hearing it at the ro32 and then having it appropriately referenced throughout the tournament seems like a good idea no matter how I'd look at it.
On April 13 2013 16:23 Ejohrik wrote: I agree fully with the OP. There was pretty much an outrage in the Twitch chat during one of the Code S broadcasts, because Tasteless just kept bringing up irrelevant subjects, not giving Artosis a chance to say anything related to StarCraft 2 for almost 10 minutes into a game.
I get your point, but I dunno if that's the best example to use. Because Tasteless and Artosis "wasting time" during downtime is actually pretty darned entertaining most of the time. And they are the best in the business when it comes to being funny and entertaining while nothing much is going on. It's all too rare in SC2 casting and they should be commended for it.
But in other leagues, downtime is a huge problem, I agree. NASL is pretty good with downtime, though.
There is no such thing as "downtime" or a time when nothing is going on. Don't believe me? Watch Engine cast the tournament organized by Themarine. There is ALWAYS something to talk about.
One of the biggest problems is that a lot of the casters do not have enough knowledge to properly cast games. Take proleague for example. Sometimes the information they're spewing is so inaccurate, I'm forced to turn off the sound.
My only constructive advice I can think of is to find more qualified casters. I'm sorry to be harsh, but for esports to be successful, we need more professional casters.
Another thing: I do think casters should try to be more like casters in other professional sports. Although it's highly entertaining for us to hear random chit chat between the casters, it's not professional. Again, sorry for being so harsh ^^
Does no one else get bored of watching the same thing happen in TvZ every single game? or TvP? HoTS has spicened things up but most game play out very similarly and its always fun for a little side commentary jokes. Keeps things interesting. I mean its really not that hard to follow the first 5 minutes of a game. If you cant do that then your probably lower than gold and you probably dont really understand the small nuances of a build...
On April 13 2013 16:23 Ejohrik wrote: Just to make a comment on caster quality overall I feel like bringing excitement to the viewer is very important. Sweden's by far most popular sports-commentator Lasse Granqvist works for national radio and has gained his popularity for being able to cover action greatly by speaking very fast (once again, it's radio), but most of all because he delivers every sports moment with huge feeling. I don't want to hear the casters casually say "Oh. That was a bad battle. Expect gg any second." after an engagement. I want them them to yell it out! Especially during the actual battle. I think TobiWanKenobi is a great example of a good E-sports caster with real passion.
Agreeing with that 100%. In so many casts now (Code S) I was missing a Khaldor-like caster yelling, getting excited hearing his head explodes. And Tobi is good yea but who I like WAY more is HoNCasts very own BreakyCPK, this guy knows how to make a casts exciting like hell!
I fucking hate this. Hearing Klazart for broodwar spout verbal diarrhoea was one of the most painful things ever. He had no insight, and simply yelling what I'm already seeing on screen is not my idea of enjoyment. In the few moments where Tasteless does it, it's terrible. "He's hitting and he's hitting hard!" said at twice the normal volume isn't exciting - moments in game are either exciting or they're not. Yelling doesn't make a difference.
Liking/disliking stats or banter is totally personal. I dislike about half the stats already offered and enjoy the banter.
So do a LOT of other people, which is why they charge so much money to cast a tournament together and why stream numbers are invariably much, much higher when they do.
Like them or not, there is no denying that Tasteless and Artosis are the biggest, most popular casters in SC2 right now.
EPT
) and less downtime would be very much so appreciated... I disagree with the banter, though. Good and funny banter can make or break a caster/duo, imo.
