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I've always thought of the GSL, Proleague, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. as different leagues in the same sport, kinda like the different leagues in the NFL, or MLB. They simply have different ways to go about the same thing. GSL has a lot of mental preparation attached to it because the matches are so far apart and for the most part you know who you're facing long in advance. Proleague has a format where players will be able to focus on maps specifically and matchups they can be used as snipers in. Foreign tournaments require you to be awesome at every matchup at any given time, and to be able to play marathon gaming sessions. To say that any one of those additional skills necessary are less difficult than any of the others is ignorant.
My point is simply that it's disappointing to hear all the hate Stephano's getting for leaving Korea when the tournaments he was there for focused on a play style that he might not be as capable of adapting to. We have this idea that certain foreigners shouldn't have beaten certain koreans, or aren't as good as certain koreans, when the korean players are playing in foreign tournaments. It's simply that there are different styles and the players involved have different strengths and weaknesses not only in the play of the actual game, but also the preparation, and how they handle the individual tournament themselves.
The only things we can say about Stephano leaving Korea are what we've heard first hand. Him leaving is not foreigner laziness, it's him deciding to leave. Focusing on international tournaments doesn't make him a worse player than Koreans, it means that's what he's most comfortable with and where he has the best opportunity to make a living.
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He said that he hated his latest trip to Korea and the only reason he stayed was because Thorzain was there.
It doesnt seem like he wants to be a static player in the GSL/PL, he wants to travel and have fun and win, which you cant really blame him for.
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Lol I have a feeling I'm gonna get warned, but I feel that Stephano is such a loser for doing this.. Did he even try? Maybe his "I never care" attitude like IdrA is giving me the wrong vibe about him.
Don't get me wrong, I love him as a top foreigner. But to read this is basically telling me that he's giving up. Not every SC2 player gets to go to Korea to further develop their talent and participate in Code S.
User was warned for this post
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United States97276 Posts
No surprise. He was too unhappy there.
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I'm happy for him that EG let him leave Korea.
It was just clear he doesn't like being there.
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I understand people being disappointed but... When was the last time one of these Korean trips paid off for a NA / EU player? Naniwa circa mid 2012?
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more evidence that code S seeds to foreigners are the most pointless waste of time ever. Take away a spot from the best players to get views for like 2-3 nights of them falling out of code S, A, GSL..and then giving up and going back to making money from streams and salaries and foreign tournaments. I don't blame them to be honest...but it is disheartening to see that really very few if any have any drive/heart to actually be the best at the game rather than JUST to make bank. Where are the people with the passion and drive of Artosis in the BW days!!! Major seems to be the best hope, I really hope that he becomes beast over there and starts wrecking face...
p.s stephano was super unhappy over there and he doesn't seem all that happy with sc2/ being in EG in general anyway...break/retirement soon may be the best thing for his own happiness and future. Not everyone is cut out for progaming no matter how great they are.
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On March 28 2013 01:26 Azarkon wrote:
I understand people being disappointed but... When was the last time one of these Korean trips paid off for a NA / EU player? Naniwa circa mid 2012?
Depends on what you mean by paid off. Winning a GSL, well there's only Jinro I think. But if you mean paid off as in having their talent further developed and becoming more of a beast, can't name the players because I'm not as into esports as you guys, but I'd say a lot?
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Not unexpected to say the least.
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On March 28 2013 01:22 Noobity wrote:
I've always thought of the GSL, Proleague, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. as different leagues in the same sport, kinda like the different leagues in the NFL, or MLB. They simply have different ways to go about the same thing. GSL has a lot of mental preparation attached to it because the matches are so far apart and for the most part you know who you're facing long in advance. Proleague has a format where players will be able to focus on maps specifically and matchups they can be used as snipers in. Foreign tournaments require you to be awesome at every matchup at any given time, and to be able to play marathon gaming sessions. To say that any one of those additional skills necessary are less difficult than any of the others is ignorant.
My point is simply that it's disappointing to hear all the hate Stephano's getting for leaving Korea when the tournaments he was there for focused on a play style that he might not be as capable of adapting to. We have this idea that certain foreigners shouldn't have beaten certain koreans, or aren't as good as certain koreans, when the korean players are playing in foreign tournaments. It's simply that there are different styles and the players involved have different strengths and weaknesses not only in the play of the actual game, but also the preparation, and how they handle the individual tournament themselves.
The only things we can say about Stephano leaving Korea are what we've heard first hand. Him leaving is not foreigner laziness, it's him deciding to leave. Focusing on international tournaments doesn't make him a worse player than Koreans, it means that's what he's most comfortable with and where he has the best opportunity to make a living.
He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in.
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On March 28 2013 01:28 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 01:26 Azarkon wrote:
I understand people being disappointed but... When was the last time one of these Korean trips paid off for a NA / EU player? Naniwa circa mid 2012? Depends on what you mean by paid off. Winning a GSL, well there's only Jinro I think. But if you mean paid off as in having their talent further developed and becoming more of a beast, can't name the players because I'm not as into esports as you guys, but I'd say a lot?
Jinro didn't win a GSL. He placed Ro4. As for improving players, I don't know - Thorzain doesn't look so hot after his stay in Korea, and neither does HuK these days.
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On March 28 2013 01:24 geokilla wrote:
Lol I have a feeling I'm gonna get warned, but I feel that Stephano is such a loser for doing this.. Did he even try? Maybe his "I never care" attitude like IdrA is giving me the wrong vibe about him.
Don't get me wrong, I love him as a top foreigner. But to read this is basically telling me that he's giving up. Not every SC2 player gets to go to Korea to further develop their talent and participate in Code S.
And not every sc2 player aspires to participate in Code S, let the man make his own decision.
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On March 28 2013 01:32 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 01:28 geokilla wrote:On March 28 2013 01:26 Azarkon wrote:
I understand people being disappointed but... When was the last time one of these Korean trips paid off for a NA / EU player? Naniwa circa mid 2012? Depends on what you mean by paid off. Winning a GSL, well there's only Jinro I think. But if you mean paid off as in having their talent further developed and becoming more of a beast, can't name the players because I'm not as into esports as you guys, but I'd say a lot? Jinro didn't win a GSL. He placed Ro4. As for improving players, I don't know - Thorzain doesn't look so hot after his stay in Korea, and neither does HuK these days.
Yeah I can't really think of a player who came back stronger.
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On March 28 2013 00:29 m0s1n0 wrote:
Hey guys,
I am the author of the German article on fragster. Here is a short (got not much time) translation of it:
Stephano did decide to leave Korea to regain energy in Europe (most likely back home in France) and focus on international (non-Korean) tournaments. Due to that fact he will leave Korea and will forfeit his Code S-slot. Moreover it is very likely that he will not play Proleague anymore. A possible reasons I named furthermore (the decision made me very curious because he traveled to IEM WC one day later to play Up&Down) is the training schedule they have in Korea (Stephano was always kind of a player who was not really interested in strict schedules).
Adding some rumors I saw on Reddit some hours ago (not part of the article and NOT confirmed by any evidend source):
- Maybe problems with the new Coach of EG-Liquid
- Scarlett got offered a Code S-seed but declined (before Stephano forfeit)
- Scarlett may take Stephanos slot now
Here is a full translation of the fragster.de article:
Code S and Proleague without Stephano
Stephano forfeits GSL slot and leaves Korea
The best foreigner in Korea, Ilyes 'Stephano' Satouri, goes back to his home country to rest. Accordingly, he forfeits his GSL Code S seed.
written by Moritz 'm0s1n0' Lindner, March 27, 2013, 15:20 CET
As Korean scene website Naver is reporting, Ilyes 'Stephano' Satouri has decided against taking part in the GSL tournament. Even though the Frenchman played in the Up and Downs, he will forfeit his slot in the most important league in the world. The reason given is that Stephano wants to practice at home again in the future and focus on international events. It is thus likely that Stephano will not be available for EG-Liquid in Proleague, either.
This step by Stephano comes as a surprise especially because the Frenchman postponed his trip to IEM World Championship in Hanover for one day to be able to play in the GSL Up and Downs. Despite his success, Stephano's stay at the EG team house in Korea is over. It seems likely that the Frenchman, known already for his unconventional motivation for practice, is not interested in adhering to a strict practice regime in Korea.
Even though Stephano's biggest achievements date back several months, he was able to show convincing play in Korea reaching Code S twice via the Up and Downs, where he was eliminated in the round of 32. In Proleague the Frenchman was still able to score six victories in eleven games played. With this Stephano was by far the most successful foreigner in the league and recently was one of the only glimmers of hope of the joint venture.
Stephano is reported as saying that he intends to rest in his home country and focus on international tournaments. Official statements from either Evil Geniuses, the Frenchman himself, or GSL operator GomTV have thus far not been released.
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On March 28 2013 01:32 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 01:28 geokilla wrote:On March 28 2013 01:26 Azarkon wrote:
I understand people being disappointed but... When was the last time one of these Korean trips paid off for a NA / EU player? Naniwa circa mid 2012? Depends on what you mean by paid off. Winning a GSL, well there's only Jinro I think. But if you mean paid off as in having their talent further developed and becoming more of a beast, can't name the players because I'm not as into esports as you guys, but I'd say a lot? Jinro didn't win a GSL. He placed Ro4. As for improving players, I don't know - Thorzain doesn't look so hot after his stay in Korea, and neither does HuK these days.
it's because they are just laddering and not actually communicating with better players, in korean teamhouses they discuss strategies and coaches are pointing out weaknesses in their gameplay etc. If you have someone that is very good at analysing games and even strategical mindgames then you are going to be a top notch player, if not then you are not going to improve that fast or even nothing at all. I think that having a good coach is the key to being a better player.
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The sweet taste of victory as everything I said would happen...happens.
Hope he gets back in the swing of things.
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On March 28 2013 01:32 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 01:22 Noobity wrote:
I've always thought of the GSL, Proleague, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. as different leagues in the same sport, kinda like the different leagues in the NFL, or MLB. They simply have different ways to go about the same thing. GSL has a lot of mental preparation attached to it because the matches are so far apart and for the most part you know who you're facing long in advance. Proleague has a format where players will be able to focus on maps specifically and matchups they can be used as snipers in. Foreign tournaments require you to be awesome at every matchup at any given time, and to be able to play marathon gaming sessions. To say that any one of those additional skills necessary are less difficult than any of the others is ignorant.
My point is simply that it's disappointing to hear all the hate Stephano's getting for leaving Korea when the tournaments he was there for focused on a play style that he might not be as capable of adapting to. We have this idea that certain foreigners shouldn't have beaten certain koreans, or aren't as good as certain koreans, when the korean players are playing in foreign tournaments. It's simply that there are different styles and the players involved have different strengths and weaknesses not only in the play of the actual game, but also the preparation, and how they handle the individual tournament themselves.
The only things we can say about Stephano leaving Korea are what we've heard first hand. Him leaving is not foreigner laziness, it's him deciding to leave. Focusing on international tournaments doesn't make him a worse player than Koreans, it means that's what he's most comfortable with and where he has the best opportunity to make a living. He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in.
He didnt go far in Dreamhack Winter 2012 where the only koreans were Hero/Taeja/Forgg/theSTC.
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On March 28 2013 01:32 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 01:22 Noobity wrote:
I've always thought of the GSL, Proleague, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. as different leagues in the same sport, kinda like the different leagues in the NFL, or MLB. They simply have different ways to go about the same thing. GSL has a lot of mental preparation attached to it because the matches are so far apart and for the most part you know who you're facing long in advance. Proleague has a format where players will be able to focus on maps specifically and matchups they can be used as snipers in. Foreign tournaments require you to be awesome at every matchup at any given time, and to be able to play marathon gaming sessions. To say that any one of those additional skills necessary are less difficult than any of the others is ignorant.
My point is simply that it's disappointing to hear all the hate Stephano's getting for leaving Korea when the tournaments he was there for focused on a play style that he might not be as capable of adapting to. We have this idea that certain foreigners shouldn't have beaten certain koreans, or aren't as good as certain koreans, when the korean players are playing in foreign tournaments. It's simply that there are different styles and the players involved have different strengths and weaknesses not only in the play of the actual game, but also the preparation, and how they handle the individual tournament themselves.
The only things we can say about Stephano leaving Korea are what we've heard first hand. Him leaving is not foreigner laziness, it's him deciding to leave. Focusing on international tournaments doesn't make him a worse player than Koreans, it means that's what he's most comfortable with and where he has the best opportunity to make a living. He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in.
You're judging his performance at MLG and IEM which were played on HotS, but he didn't play HotS because of...Code S and Proleague.
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On March 28 2013 01:32 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 01:22 Noobity wrote:
I've always thought of the GSL, Proleague, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. as different leagues in the same sport, kinda like the different leagues in the NFL, or MLB. They simply have different ways to go about the same thing. GSL has a lot of mental preparation attached to it because the matches are so far apart and for the most part you know who you're facing long in advance. Proleague has a format where players will be able to focus on maps specifically and matchups they can be used as snipers in. Foreign tournaments require you to be awesome at every matchup at any given time, and to be able to play marathon gaming sessions. To say that any one of those additional skills necessary are less difficult than any of the others is ignorant.
My point is simply that it's disappointing to hear all the hate Stephano's getting for leaving Korea when the tournaments he was there for focused on a play style that he might not be as capable of adapting to. We have this idea that certain foreigners shouldn't have beaten certain koreans, or aren't as good as certain koreans, when the korean players are playing in foreign tournaments. It's simply that there are different styles and the players involved have different strengths and weaknesses not only in the play of the actual game, but also the preparation, and how they handle the individual tournament themselves.
The only things we can say about Stephano leaving Korea are what we've heard first hand. Him leaving is not foreigner laziness, it's him deciding to leave. Focusing on international tournaments doesn't make him a worse player than Koreans, it means that's what he's most comfortable with and where he has the best opportunity to make a living. He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in.
Well to be fair, he go 3-0ed by a Kespa player, Last, in one of the most stacked brackets I have ever seen. Last then went 2-3 vs Life, who won MLG. He didn't lose to some scrub, but a guy who almost beat the winner of the entire event.
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Right desicion IMHO. His interviews made it really clear, that he hated it being there and where is the point of living the e-sports life, if you don´t enjoy it? Also his play seemed to actually have gone weeker, while staying, so there is really no point to do that.
His spot should go to someone that already proofed himself in Hots. Whether that is MVP, First, Last, Yonghwa, someone else I forgot, or the winner of a Code-A-wildcard-tourney is GOM´s decision, but I hope we will see no foreigner seed, that has´nt proven himself in foreign competition first.
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EPT
