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Good move for Stephano. Code A/S uses one of the worst tournament setups that I've ever seen.
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pretty sad that stephano doesnt want to compete ;_;
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On March 28 2013 01:39 a3den wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 01:32 sitromit wrote:On March 28 2013 01:22 Noobity wrote:
I've always thought of the GSL, Proleague, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. as different leagues in the same sport, kinda like the different leagues in the NFL, or MLB. They simply have different ways to go about the same thing. GSL has a lot of mental preparation attached to it because the matches are so far apart and for the most part you know who you're facing long in advance. Proleague has a format where players will be able to focus on maps specifically and matchups they can be used as snipers in. Foreign tournaments require you to be awesome at every matchup at any given time, and to be able to play marathon gaming sessions. To say that any one of those additional skills necessary are less difficult than any of the others is ignorant.
My point is simply that it's disappointing to hear all the hate Stephano's getting for leaving Korea when the tournaments he was there for focused on a play style that he might not be as capable of adapting to. We have this idea that certain foreigners shouldn't have beaten certain koreans, or aren't as good as certain koreans, when the korean players are playing in foreign tournaments. It's simply that there are different styles and the players involved have different strengths and weaknesses not only in the play of the actual game, but also the preparation, and how they handle the individual tournament themselves.
The only things we can say about Stephano leaving Korea are what we've heard first hand. Him leaving is not foreigner laziness, it's him deciding to leave. Focusing on international tournaments doesn't make him a worse player than Koreans, it means that's what he's most comfortable with and where he has the best opportunity to make a living. He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in. You're judging his performance at MLG and IEM which were played on HotS, but he didn't play HotS because of...Code S and Proleague.
Along with all the other players who didn't play HotS because of GSL or PL who did much better than him.
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another patch zerg down=D!
User was warned for this post
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On March 28 2013 01:20 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 01:18 Prime Directive wrote:On March 28 2013 01:13 Juggernaut477 wrote:On March 28 2013 00:46 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 28 2013 00:36 GunSec wrote:
he said on his latest stream that his next tournament was dreamhack so he is going to miss GSL code s 100 %, he has forfeited his spot for sure. Give the spot to Sortof or Scarlett! Hell no, I hope GOM won't give spots to foreigners anymore. This. I'm sick of charity seeds being given out to foreigners that go home after a month or two. Let the Koreans that actually deserve the spot have it. Except for Scarlett please  Scarlet already refused one and is going to try the qualifiers instead.
Did she really? That is so fucking badass!
Could the holy trinity or foreigners really be Major, Naniwa and Scarlett? Could the universe really be such a just place? Is Karma real?
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On March 28 2013 01:39 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 01:32 sitromit wrote:On March 28 2013 01:22 Noobity wrote:
I've always thought of the GSL, Proleague, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. as different leagues in the same sport, kinda like the different leagues in the NFL, or MLB. They simply have different ways to go about the same thing. GSL has a lot of mental preparation attached to it because the matches are so far apart and for the most part you know who you're facing long in advance. Proleague has a format where players will be able to focus on maps specifically and matchups they can be used as snipers in. Foreign tournaments require you to be awesome at every matchup at any given time, and to be able to play marathon gaming sessions. To say that any one of those additional skills necessary are less difficult than any of the others is ignorant.
My point is simply that it's disappointing to hear all the hate Stephano's getting for leaving Korea when the tournaments he was there for focused on a play style that he might not be as capable of adapting to. We have this idea that certain foreigners shouldn't have beaten certain koreans, or aren't as good as certain koreans, when the korean players are playing in foreign tournaments. It's simply that there are different styles and the players involved have different strengths and weaknesses not only in the play of the actual game, but also the preparation, and how they handle the individual tournament themselves.
The only things we can say about Stephano leaving Korea are what we've heard first hand. Him leaving is not foreigner laziness, it's him deciding to leave. Focusing on international tournaments doesn't make him a worse player than Koreans, it means that's what he's most comfortable with and where he has the best opportunity to make a living. He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in. Well to be fair, he go 3-0ed by a Kespa player, Last, in one of the most stacked brackets I have ever seen. Last then went 2-3 vs Life, who won MLG. He didn't lose to some scrub, but a guy who almost beat the winner of the entire event.
This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too).
We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S.
When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently.
The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player.
Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players.
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On March 28 2013 01:43 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
Good move for Stephano. Code A/S uses one of the worst tournament setups that I've ever seen.
Complete shit. The tournament setup might be complicated, but it's actually really good to make sure you have the best player winning and a good quality in the upper rounds.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Stephano had decided to leave code S a long time ago, but didn't want to tell anybody until he was safely away from Korea lol.
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On March 28 2013 01:43 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
Good move for Stephano. Code A/S uses one of the worst tournament setups that I've ever seen.
It's a great and financially responsible/sustainable format.
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On March 28 2013 01:32 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 01:22 Noobity wrote:
I've always thought of the GSL, Proleague, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. as different leagues in the same sport, kinda like the different leagues in the NFL, or MLB. They simply have different ways to go about the same thing. GSL has a lot of mental preparation attached to it because the matches are so far apart and for the most part you know who you're facing long in advance. Proleague has a format where players will be able to focus on maps specifically and matchups they can be used as snipers in. Foreign tournaments require you to be awesome at every matchup at any given time, and to be able to play marathon gaming sessions. To say that any one of those additional skills necessary are less difficult than any of the others is ignorant.
My point is simply that it's disappointing to hear all the hate Stephano's getting for leaving Korea when the tournaments he was there for focused on a play style that he might not be as capable of adapting to. We have this idea that certain foreigners shouldn't have beaten certain koreans, or aren't as good as certain koreans, when the korean players are playing in foreign tournaments. It's simply that there are different styles and the players involved have different strengths and weaknesses not only in the play of the actual game, but also the preparation, and how they handle the individual tournament themselves.
The only things we can say about Stephano leaving Korea are what we've heard first hand. Him leaving is not foreigner laziness, it's him deciding to leave. Focusing on international tournaments doesn't make him a worse player than Koreans, it means that's what he's most comfortable with and where he has the best opportunity to make a living. He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in.
I'm not sure what 2 tournament results show definitively, and a lot of his wins came off victories from players like Hero, MC, Alicia, Polt. Did they not do well in those tournaments because of the format, or were they simply worse than Stephano at the time?
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On March 28 2013 01:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 01:39 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:32 sitromit wrote:On March 28 2013 01:22 Noobity wrote:
I've always thought of the GSL, Proleague, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. as different leagues in the same sport, kinda like the different leagues in the NFL, or MLB. They simply have different ways to go about the same thing. GSL has a lot of mental preparation attached to it because the matches are so far apart and for the most part you know who you're facing long in advance. Proleague has a format where players will be able to focus on maps specifically and matchups they can be used as snipers in. Foreign tournaments require you to be awesome at every matchup at any given time, and to be able to play marathon gaming sessions. To say that any one of those additional skills necessary are less difficult than any of the others is ignorant.
My point is simply that it's disappointing to hear all the hate Stephano's getting for leaving Korea when the tournaments he was there for focused on a play style that he might not be as capable of adapting to. We have this idea that certain foreigners shouldn't have beaten certain koreans, or aren't as good as certain koreans, when the korean players are playing in foreign tournaments. It's simply that there are different styles and the players involved have different strengths and weaknesses not only in the play of the actual game, but also the preparation, and how they handle the individual tournament themselves.
The only things we can say about Stephano leaving Korea are what we've heard first hand. Him leaving is not foreigner laziness, it's him deciding to leave. Focusing on international tournaments doesn't make him a worse player than Koreans, it means that's what he's most comfortable with and where he has the best opportunity to make a living. He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in. Well to be fair, he go 3-0ed by a Kespa player, Last, in one of the most stacked brackets I have ever seen. Last then went 2-3 vs Life, who won MLG. He didn't lose to some scrub, but a guy who almost beat the winner of the entire event. This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too). We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S. When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently. The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player. Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players.
Well I can say he did shitty and should have done better. That it is unacceptable to get beaten 3-0 and that is total crap. But you see, I am a Red Sox fan, so I know what slumps are. Unlike many fans in the SC2 scene, who are like weather vains and just band wagon to the next winning Korean player and call him a god of the game until he loses and then its on to the next one. I would say that one is not much better than the other.
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On March 28 2013 01:46 kafkaesque wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 01:20 Assirra wrote:On March 28 2013 01:18 Prime Directive wrote:On March 28 2013 01:13 Juggernaut477 wrote:On March 28 2013 00:46 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 28 2013 00:36 GunSec wrote:
he said on his latest stream that his next tournament was dreamhack so he is going to miss GSL code s 100 %, he has forfeited his spot for sure. Give the spot to Sortof or Scarlett! Hell no, I hope GOM won't give spots to foreigners anymore. This. I'm sick of charity seeds being given out to foreigners that go home after a month or two. Let the Koreans that actually deserve the spot have it. Except for Scarlett please Scarlet already refused one and is going to try the qualifiers instead. Did she really? That is so fucking badass! Could the holy trinity or foreigners really be Major, Naniwa and Scarlett? Could the universe really be such a just place? Is Karma real?
Jinro once declined a Code A seed and gained* huuuuuuge respect from his fans, he is a badass too :-0
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On March 28 2013 00:12 mechengineer123 wrote:
Good decision, gsl is too hard for most people.
Heh.
Well I guess at least he kind of proved himself useful in the team league, even if he failed miserably in Code S.
I'm not really surprised that he's leaving; he always seemed hesitant to go to Korea because there are such few tournaments (compared to the rest of the world) and because he doesn't like to practice as hard as the best (Korean) players.
So I guess he'll remain the top foreigner (for now) with all this achievements being in foreign tournaments. That's certainly fine, and he'll make more money that way. It's a pity he couldn't get near Naniwa's, HuK's, Jinro's, or IdrA's levels of accomplishment in the GSL though.
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On March 28 2013 01:52 mongmong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 01:46 kafkaesque wrote:On March 28 2013 01:20 Assirra wrote:On March 28 2013 01:18 Prime Directive wrote:On March 28 2013 01:13 Juggernaut477 wrote:On March 28 2013 00:46 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 28 2013 00:36 GunSec wrote:
he said on his latest stream that his next tournament was dreamhack so he is going to miss GSL code s 100 %, he has forfeited his spot for sure. Give the spot to Sortof or Scarlett! Hell no, I hope GOM won't give spots to foreigners anymore. This. I'm sick of charity seeds being given out to foreigners that go home after a month or two. Let the Koreans that actually deserve the spot have it. Except for Scarlett please Scarlet already refused one and is going to try the qualifiers instead. Did she really? That is so fucking badass! Could the holy trinity or foreigners really be Major, Naniwa and Scarlett? Could the universe really be such a just place? Is Karma real? Jinro once declined a Code A seed and gained* huuuuuuge respect from his fans, he is a badass too :-0
I remember his Code S ro4 run. That made him a bigger bad ass.
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France --> Korea. Reverse paris syndrome?
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On March 28 2013 01:51 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 01:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 01:39 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:32 sitromit wrote:On March 28 2013 01:22 Noobity wrote:
I've always thought of the GSL, Proleague, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. as different leagues in the same sport, kinda like the different leagues in the NFL, or MLB. They simply have different ways to go about the same thing. GSL has a lot of mental preparation attached to it because the matches are so far apart and for the most part you know who you're facing long in advance. Proleague has a format where players will be able to focus on maps specifically and matchups they can be used as snipers in. Foreign tournaments require you to be awesome at every matchup at any given time, and to be able to play marathon gaming sessions. To say that any one of those additional skills necessary are less difficult than any of the others is ignorant.
My point is simply that it's disappointing to hear all the hate Stephano's getting for leaving Korea when the tournaments he was there for focused on a play style that he might not be as capable of adapting to. We have this idea that certain foreigners shouldn't have beaten certain koreans, or aren't as good as certain koreans, when the korean players are playing in foreign tournaments. It's simply that there are different styles and the players involved have different strengths and weaknesses not only in the play of the actual game, but also the preparation, and how they handle the individual tournament themselves.
The only things we can say about Stephano leaving Korea are what we've heard first hand. Him leaving is not foreigner laziness, it's him deciding to leave. Focusing on international tournaments doesn't make him a worse player than Koreans, it means that's what he's most comfortable with and where he has the best opportunity to make a living. He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in. Well to be fair, he go 3-0ed by a Kespa player, Last, in one of the most stacked brackets I have ever seen. Last then went 2-3 vs Life, who won MLG. He didn't lose to some scrub, but a guy who almost beat the winner of the entire event. This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too). We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S. When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently. The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player. Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players. Well I can say he did shitty and should have done better. That it is unacceptable to get beaten 3-0 and that is total crap. But you see, I am a Red Sox fan, so I know what slumps are. Unlike many fans in the SC2 scene, who are like weather vains and just band wagon to the next winning Korean player and call him a god of the game until he loses and then its on to the next one. I would say that one is not much better than the other.
What's wrong with that? It's basically how Sc2 has worked at the pro level since it's inception.
Beta/Late 2010 - Fruitdealer/Tester era.
Early - Mid 2011 - Mvp/MC/Nestea era
Late 2011 - Mvp/MMA/DRG era
Early - Mid 2012 - MKP/DRG era
Mid - Late 2012 - Life/Parting/Rain/Leenock/Patch Zerg era
Are you denying that players in Sc2 tend to be at the top for about 6 months maximum and then fall off still able to win tournament but never consistently stringing together GSL/MLG wins like Mvp, DRG and Life were able to do at their peaks?
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United States22883 Posts
On March 28 2013 00:25 sabas123 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 00:22 DtorR wrote:
Is there more money involved playing on international tournaments? Even though playing in GSL Code S is an honour but I feel that to win it is not worth the effort. The competition in the international level is a little easier than in Korea. code S has more prize money but it is way easier to get money out of international tournements.
People keep saying this, but it's short-term thinking that may not be relevant anymore. It may not have even been true when IdrA made the decision to leave, because even then Koreans were beginning to enter foreign tournaments.
You're giving up skill ceiling to get "easier" competition, except Koreans, who are still benefiting from the higher skill ceiling that their training provides, are also a part of those competitions now. You'll get a few thousand here or there from smaller tournaments like DH Bucharest or HSC, but all of the major tournaments have gone to Koreans.
If you were to calculate the money earned from foreign tournaments by country in 2012-13, 90%+ would probably go to Koreans. So I'm not sure that the payout from going home is really that much better than being a GSL Code S player, since Code S players are in all of the important American and European tournaments.
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On March 28 2013 00:12 mechengineer123 wrote:
Good decision, gsl is too hard for most people.
Considering he made it back into code S fine, meh.
I'm not surprised though. I don't think it has anything to do with skill, more with money.
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Good decision for Stephano.
People say you have to train like the koreans to have a chance to beat the koreans, but I don't think the foreigners who move there have the opportunity to actually train like them. They can certainly play all day on the korean ladder but they miss out on all the custom practice and communication that happens between the korean players, which is what I think makes them that much better than us.
We need to make Stockholm the european mecca of e-sports and have all our pros play there and train and talk strategy together :D
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Seems he's not to happy there in the team house, and he misses France/home alot. Good choice you either do something 100% or you don't do it at all. If he's going to play code S with a bad mindset and then bump out of code S, all he has is foreigners with the "i told you so" comments on his neck.
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EPT
