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On March 28 2013 02:02 Belha wrote:
Too bad, I really wanted to see a foreigner in code S again.
I guess this confirms Naniwa as the best foreigner. At least after the Z patch-hammer.
I don't know if I would go that far, but it definitely means that Naniwa is still the most accomplished foreigner in GSL (except maybe Jinro).
GL to Stephano, and I hope he is a lot happier doing whatever it is he'll be doing now.
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On March 28 2013 01:13 Juggernaut477 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 00:46 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 28 2013 00:36 GunSec wrote:
he said on his latest stream that his next tournament was dreamhack so he is going to miss GSL code s 100 %, he has forfeited his spot for sure. Give the spot to Sortof or Scarlett! Hell no, I hope GOM won't give spots to foreigners anymore. This. I'm sick of charity seeds being given out to foreigners that go home after a month or two. Let the Koreans that actually deserve the spot have it.
First, YongHwa, Last, Mvp, jjakji, and more...
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On March 28 2013 02:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 02:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 02:03 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:57 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 01:51 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 01:39 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:32 sitromit wrote:On March 28 2013 01:22 Noobity wrote:
I've always thought of the GSL, Proleague, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. as different leagues in the same sport, kinda like the different leagues in the NFL, or MLB. They simply have different ways to go about the same thing. GSL has a lot of mental preparation attached to it because the matches are so far apart and for the most part you know who you're facing long in advance. Proleague has a format where players will be able to focus on maps specifically and matchups they can be used as snipers in. Foreign tournaments require you to be awesome at every matchup at any given time, and to be able to play marathon gaming sessions. To say that any one of those additional skills necessary are less difficult than any of the others is ignorant.
My point is simply that it's disappointing to hear all the hate Stephano's getting for leaving Korea when the tournaments he was there for focused on a play style that he might not be as capable of adapting to. We have this idea that certain foreigners shouldn't have beaten certain koreans, or aren't as good as certain koreans, when the korean players are playing in foreign tournaments. It's simply that there are different styles and the players involved have different strengths and weaknesses not only in the play of the actual game, but also the preparation, and how they handle the individual tournament themselves.
The only things we can say about Stephano leaving Korea are what we've heard first hand. Him leaving is not foreigner laziness, it's him deciding to leave. Focusing on international tournaments doesn't make him a worse player than Koreans, it means that's what he's most comfortable with and where he has the best opportunity to make a living. He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in. Well to be fair, he go 3-0ed by a Kespa player, Last, in one of the most stacked brackets I have ever seen. Last then went 2-3 vs Life, who won MLG. He didn't lose to some scrub, but a guy who almost beat the winner of the entire event. This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too). We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S. When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently. The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player. Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players. Well I can say he did shitty and should have done better. That it is unacceptable to get beaten 3-0 and that is total crap. But you see, I am a Red Sox fan, so I know what slumps are. Unlike many fans in the SC2 scene, who are like weather vains and just band wagon to the next winning Korean player and call him a god of the game until he loses and then its on to the next one. I would say that one is not much better than the other. What's wrong with that? It's basically how Sc2 has worked at the pro level since it's inception. Beta/Late 2010 - Fruitdealer/Tester era. Early - Mid 2011 - Mvp/MC/Nestea era Late 2011 - Mvp/MMA/DRG era Early - Mid 2012 - MKP/DRG era Mid - Late 2012 - Life/Parting/Rain/Leenock/Patch Zerg era Are you denying that players in Sc2 tend to be at the top for about 6 months maximum and then fall off still able to win tournament but never consistently stringing together GSL/MLG wins like Mvp, DRG and Life were able to do at their peaks? Well in the Boston area, we have words for people like that, but I won't use it on TL. But it's called being a fair weather fan. They cheer when their team is winning, but disappear when they aren't. Real fan cheer when the team is playing. I still cheer for MC and willl until he quits. Same with MKP and the members of EG. I am not a fair weather fan, I even cheer when they lose. Most Sc2 fans are a fan of the game more than players so we just like whoever has cool play and shows good games. That is what a fair weather fan is, they don't care who is playing and just cheer for the winner because it is easy. They like to watch the winner and can’t deal with the disappointment, or the idea that they might have to wait to see their favorite player be awesome. Fans like myself and my father who waited 20 years or (nearly 60 in my fathers case) for the Sox to win a world series have little patience for fair weather fans.
That's great but ... careface ?
Sports = entertainment
People should be free to choice any way and form they "follow" the game or a team all they want.
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On March 28 2013 02:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 02:18 dUTtrOACh wrote:
Simple solution: Give his spot to someone who wants it. *and deserves it*, which makes it a very hard argument to settle... (whether or not these free seeds should even exist in the first place, and then how is someone more prepared for a long term tournament like the GSL by winning marathon tournaments like MLG or Dreamhack).
Like MLG making special sub brackets for ESF and Kespa players and then inviting the players to the bracket? Or MGL creating a separate championship tournament(proleague vs the world) that feeds directly into the championship bracket, so the Kespa players can bypass the open bracket?
At least GSL is honest about it’s seeds and just calls them seeds.
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On March 28 2013 01:57 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 01:51 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 01:39 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:32 sitromit wrote:On March 28 2013 01:22 Noobity wrote:
I've always thought of the GSL, Proleague, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. as different leagues in the same sport, kinda like the different leagues in the NFL, or MLB. They simply have different ways to go about the same thing. GSL has a lot of mental preparation attached to it because the matches are so far apart and for the most part you know who you're facing long in advance. Proleague has a format where players will be able to focus on maps specifically and matchups they can be used as snipers in. Foreign tournaments require you to be awesome at every matchup at any given time, and to be able to play marathon gaming sessions. To say that any one of those additional skills necessary are less difficult than any of the others is ignorant.
My point is simply that it's disappointing to hear all the hate Stephano's getting for leaving Korea when the tournaments he was there for focused on a play style that he might not be as capable of adapting to. We have this idea that certain foreigners shouldn't have beaten certain koreans, or aren't as good as certain koreans, when the korean players are playing in foreign tournaments. It's simply that there are different styles and the players involved have different strengths and weaknesses not only in the play of the actual game, but also the preparation, and how they handle the individual tournament themselves.
The only things we can say about Stephano leaving Korea are what we've heard first hand. Him leaving is not foreigner laziness, it's him deciding to leave. Focusing on international tournaments doesn't make him a worse player than Koreans, it means that's what he's most comfortable with and where he has the best opportunity to make a living. He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in. Well to be fair, he go 3-0ed by a Kespa player, Last, in one of the most stacked brackets I have ever seen. Last then went 2-3 vs Life, who won MLG. He didn't lose to some scrub, but a guy who almost beat the winner of the entire event. This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too). We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S. When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently. The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player. Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players. Well I can say he did shitty and should have done better. That it is unacceptable to get beaten 3-0 and that is total crap. But you see, I am a Red Sox fan, so I know what slumps are. Unlike many fans in the SC2 scene, who are like weather vains and just band wagon to the next winning Korean player and call him a god of the game until he loses and then its on to the next one. I would say that one is not much better than the other. What's wrong with that? It's basically how Sc2 has worked at the pro level since it's inception. Beta/Late 2010 - Fruitdealer/Tester era. Early - Mid 2011 - Mvp/MC/Nestea era Late 2011 - Mvp/MMA/DRG era Early - Mid 2012 - MKP/DRG era Mid - Late 2012 - Life/Parting/Rain/Leenock/Patch Zerg era Are you denying that players in Sc2 tend to be at the top for about 6 months maximum and then fall off still able to win tournament but never consistently stringing together GSL/MLG wins like Mvp, DRG and Life were able to do at their peaks?
Mvp was still relevant in 2012.
He won a GSL and placed second for the next...
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On March 28 2013 02:23 Lysanias wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 02:16 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 02:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 02:03 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:57 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 01:51 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 01:39 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:32 sitromit wrote:On March 28 2013 01:22 Noobity wrote:
I've always thought of the GSL, Proleague, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. as different leagues in the same sport, kinda like the different leagues in the NFL, or MLB. They simply have different ways to go about the same thing. GSL has a lot of mental preparation attached to it because the matches are so far apart and for the most part you know who you're facing long in advance. Proleague has a format where players will be able to focus on maps specifically and matchups they can be used as snipers in. Foreign tournaments require you to be awesome at every matchup at any given time, and to be able to play marathon gaming sessions. To say that any one of those additional skills necessary are less difficult than any of the others is ignorant.
My point is simply that it's disappointing to hear all the hate Stephano's getting for leaving Korea when the tournaments he was there for focused on a play style that he might not be as capable of adapting to. We have this idea that certain foreigners shouldn't have beaten certain koreans, or aren't as good as certain koreans, when the korean players are playing in foreign tournaments. It's simply that there are different styles and the players involved have different strengths and weaknesses not only in the play of the actual game, but also the preparation, and how they handle the individual tournament themselves.
The only things we can say about Stephano leaving Korea are what we've heard first hand. Him leaving is not foreigner laziness, it's him deciding to leave. Focusing on international tournaments doesn't make him a worse player than Koreans, it means that's what he's most comfortable with and where he has the best opportunity to make a living. He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in. Well to be fair, he go 3-0ed by a Kespa player, Last, in one of the most stacked brackets I have ever seen. Last then went 2-3 vs Life, who won MLG. He didn't lose to some scrub, but a guy who almost beat the winner of the entire event. This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too). We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S. When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently. The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player. Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players. Well I can say he did shitty and should have done better. That it is unacceptable to get beaten 3-0 and that is total crap. But you see, I am a Red Sox fan, so I know what slumps are. Unlike many fans in the SC2 scene, who are like weather vains and just band wagon to the next winning Korean player and call him a god of the game until he loses and then its on to the next one. I would say that one is not much better than the other. What's wrong with that? It's basically how Sc2 has worked at the pro level since it's inception. Beta/Late 2010 - Fruitdealer/Tester era. Early - Mid 2011 - Mvp/MC/Nestea era Late 2011 - Mvp/MMA/DRG era Early - Mid 2012 - MKP/DRG era Mid - Late 2012 - Life/Parting/Rain/Leenock/Patch Zerg era Are you denying that players in Sc2 tend to be at the top for about 6 months maximum and then fall off still able to win tournament but never consistently stringing together GSL/MLG wins like Mvp, DRG and Life were able to do at their peaks? Well in the Boston area, we have words for people like that, but I won't use it on TL. But it's called being a fair weather fan. They cheer when their team is winning, but disappear when they aren't. Real fan cheer when the team is playing. I still cheer for MC and willl until he quits. Same with MKP and the members of EG. I am not a fair weather fan, I even cheer when they lose. Most Sc2 fans are a fan of the game more than players so we just like whoever has cool play and shows good games. That is what a fair weather fan is, they don't care who is playing and just cheer for the winner because it is easy. They like to watch the winner and can’t deal with the disappointment, or the idea that they might have to wait to see their favorite player be awesome. Fans like myself and my father who waited 20 years or (nearly 60 in my fathers case) for the Sox to win a world series have little patience for fair weather fans. That's great but ... careface ? Sports = entertainment People should be free to choice any way and form they "follow" the game or a team all they want.
But then making fun people who cheer for these players, claiming they are "fan boy" pretty much goes against what you just said there. Or did you see what started this argument in the first place?
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He said in numerous interviews that he doesn't like living the typical progamer's life when it comes down to strict practice schedule. So why should he dedicate himself to a thing when he's never going to be happy in the process of doing so? If you devote yourself to something and in your heart you know, it's never gonna work out, it won't work out.
So I totally get Stephano's decision. He's the type of player who's in the scene/game for a good time plus he's making a very good living out of it. Why give that up?
In conclusion one might say: he's not a professional and well, if you compare his work ethic with the Korean "standard", frankly speaking, he isn't.
GL Ilyes!!
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On March 28 2013 02:20 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 02:18 HappyTimePANDA wrote:
This is disappointing. Foreigners can't keep up with Koreans and then when they take the steps needed to be at a Korean level (training like Koreans) they say the coach is mean and it is too hard. I really hope this is just to Stephano not having the willpower to follow his coaches rules and not because Blizzard is going to region lock:/ Well Koreans are living near their families, in their home country. Participating to GSL is way easier for them than for a foreigner... The foreigner has to make much more sacrifices than koreans to be able to play in GSL.
I doubt the Koreans see their families much either. They don't all live near the training houses. And sacrifice is needed to be at an elite level. People have to move from their families all the time for sports. It's just disappointing that one of the only foreigners that showed a chance of playing at a Korean level gives up. I don't mind really since Koreans are the best to watch but since these whispers of region locking coming , it has me worried since Stephano giving up just reinforces that foreigners have no chance and we will be left with mostly sublevel competitions with no Koreans besides gsl and proleague
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On March 28 2013 02:25 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 02:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 28 2013 02:18 dUTtrOACh wrote:
Simple solution: Give his spot to someone who wants it. *and deserves it*, which makes it a very hard argument to settle... (whether or not these free seeds should even exist in the first place, and then how is someone more prepared for a long term tournament like the GSL by winning marathon tournaments like MLG or Dreamhack). Like MLG making special sub brackets for ESF and Kespa players and then inviting the players to the bracket? Or MGL creating a separate championship tournament(proleague vs the world) that feeds directly into the championship bracket, so the Kespa players can bypass the open bracket? At least GSL is honest about it’s seeds and just calls them seeds.
I'm not advocating the ways that MLG (or any other tournament) invites players, but pointing out that everyone is wrong doesn't make GSL right. The lesser of the two evils is still evil, especially when they could organize the tournament without invitations. But partnerships and publicity sometimes override the need to have the best players in every single slot, so I understand the reasons for giving out seeds. I'm not surprised.
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On March 28 2013 02:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 02:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 02:03 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:57 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 01:51 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 01:39 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:32 sitromit wrote:On March 28 2013 01:22 Noobity wrote:
I've always thought of the GSL, Proleague, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. as different leagues in the same sport, kinda like the different leagues in the NFL, or MLB. They simply have different ways to go about the same thing. GSL has a lot of mental preparation attached to it because the matches are so far apart and for the most part you know who you're facing long in advance. Proleague has a format where players will be able to focus on maps specifically and matchups they can be used as snipers in. Foreign tournaments require you to be awesome at every matchup at any given time, and to be able to play marathon gaming sessions. To say that any one of those additional skills necessary are less difficult than any of the others is ignorant.
My point is simply that it's disappointing to hear all the hate Stephano's getting for leaving Korea when the tournaments he was there for focused on a play style that he might not be as capable of adapting to. We have this idea that certain foreigners shouldn't have beaten certain koreans, or aren't as good as certain koreans, when the korean players are playing in foreign tournaments. It's simply that there are different styles and the players involved have different strengths and weaknesses not only in the play of the actual game, but also the preparation, and how they handle the individual tournament themselves.
The only things we can say about Stephano leaving Korea are what we've heard first hand. Him leaving is not foreigner laziness, it's him deciding to leave. Focusing on international tournaments doesn't make him a worse player than Koreans, it means that's what he's most comfortable with and where he has the best opportunity to make a living. He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in. Well to be fair, he go 3-0ed by a Kespa player, Last, in one of the most stacked brackets I have ever seen. Last then went 2-3 vs Life, who won MLG. He didn't lose to some scrub, but a guy who almost beat the winner of the entire event. This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too). We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S. When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently. The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player. Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players. Well I can say he did shitty and should have done better. That it is unacceptable to get beaten 3-0 and that is total crap. But you see, I am a Red Sox fan, so I know what slumps are. Unlike many fans in the SC2 scene, who are like weather vains and just band wagon to the next winning Korean player and call him a god of the game until he loses and then its on to the next one. I would say that one is not much better than the other. What's wrong with that? It's basically how Sc2 has worked at the pro level since it's inception. Beta/Late 2010 - Fruitdealer/Tester era. Early - Mid 2011 - Mvp/MC/Nestea era Late 2011 - Mvp/MMA/DRG era Early - Mid 2012 - MKP/DRG era Mid - Late 2012 - Life/Parting/Rain/Leenock/Patch Zerg era Are you denying that players in Sc2 tend to be at the top for about 6 months maximum and then fall off still able to win tournament but never consistently stringing together GSL/MLG wins like Mvp, DRG and Life were able to do at their peaks? Well in the Boston area, we have words for people like that, but I won't use it on TL. But it's called being a fair weather fan. They cheer when their team is winning, but disappear when they aren't. Real fan cheer when the team is playing. I still cheer for MC and willl until he quits. Same with MKP and the members of EG. I am not a fair weather fan, I even cheer when they lose. Most Sc2 fans are a fan of the game more than players so we just like whoever has cool play and shows good games. That is what a fair weather fan is, they don't care who is playing and just cheer for the winner because it is easy. They like to watch the winner and can’t deal with the disappointment, or the idea that they might have to wait to see their favorite player be awesome. Fans like myself and my father who waited 20 years or (nearly 60 in my fathers case) for the Sox to win a world series have little patience for fair weather fans.
People are never going to be like that for Sc2 because you don't grow up with a team like you do it in real sports.
Instead people support players for their country, region, race, team, playstyle etc..
Real sports are also a lot more consistent, your favourite team is a constant forever. When I first got into Sc2 my favourite players were Nestea, Fruit Dealer, Jinro and July and my favourite team was oGs. Three of those players don't even play anymore, Nestea plays but is a shadow of what he was and oGs has disbanded. I'd love for Nestea to come back but it's not going to happen, so naturally people move onto new players to cheer for who are active.
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On March 28 2013 02:27 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 02:23 Lysanias wrote:On March 28 2013 02:16 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 02:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 02:03 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:57 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 01:51 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 01:39 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:32 sitromit wrote:
[quote]
He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in. Well to be fair, he go 3-0ed by a Kespa player, Last, in one of the most stacked brackets I have ever seen. Last then went 2-3 vs Life, who won MLG. He didn't lose to some scrub, but a guy who almost beat the winner of the entire event. This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too). We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S. When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently. The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player. Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players. Well I can say he did shitty and should have done better. That it is unacceptable to get beaten 3-0 and that is total crap. But you see, I am a Red Sox fan, so I know what slumps are. Unlike many fans in the SC2 scene, who are like weather vains and just band wagon to the next winning Korean player and call him a god of the game until he loses and then its on to the next one. I would say that one is not much better than the other. What's wrong with that? It's basically how Sc2 has worked at the pro level since it's inception. Beta/Late 2010 - Fruitdealer/Tester era. Early - Mid 2011 - Mvp/MC/Nestea era Late 2011 - Mvp/MMA/DRG era Early - Mid 2012 - MKP/DRG era Mid - Late 2012 - Life/Parting/Rain/Leenock/Patch Zerg era Are you denying that players in Sc2 tend to be at the top for about 6 months maximum and then fall off still able to win tournament but never consistently stringing together GSL/MLG wins like Mvp, DRG and Life were able to do at their peaks? Well in the Boston area, we have words for people like that, but I won't use it on TL. But it's called being a fair weather fan. They cheer when their team is winning, but disappear when they aren't. Real fan cheer when the team is playing. I still cheer for MC and willl until he quits. Same with MKP and the members of EG. I am not a fair weather fan, I even cheer when they lose. Most Sc2 fans are a fan of the game more than players so we just like whoever has cool play and shows good games. That is what a fair weather fan is, they don't care who is playing and just cheer for the winner because it is easy. They like to watch the winner and can’t deal with the disappointment, or the idea that they might have to wait to see their favorite player be awesome. Fans like myself and my father who waited 20 years or (nearly 60 in my fathers case) for the Sox to win a world series have little patience for fair weather fans. That's great but ... careface ? Sports = entertainment People should be free to choice any way and form they "follow" the game or a team all they want. But then making fun people who cheer for these players, claiming they are "fan boy" pretty much goes against what you just said there. Or did you see what started this argument in the first place?
Your agruments are pointless and to long for you compare a "real" sport with something as fast moving as E-sports. I did not enjoy reading they way you presented yourself as the high and mighty in that last post as if long time fans actualy only matter and as if you are more special and as if you don't suport a single team or player is something of a crime.
Suporting starcraft works a little bit different then a sport team that has been around for 100 years or so.
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On March 28 2013 02:18 HappyTimePANDA wrote:
This is disappointing. Foreigners can't keep up with Koreans and then when they take the steps needed to be at a Korean level (training like Koreans) they say the coach is mean and it is too hard. I really hope this is just to Stephano not having the willpower to follow his coaches rules and not because Blizzard is going to region lock:/
Why would they region lock after providing multi-region functionality?
I think foreigners so far have not kept up with Koreans because of willpower. Not saying it's not incredibly hard, but why else would he be giving up?
Think about it, you go to Korea, you don't speak the language. You are far from home, with a foreign coach who may or not be "mean"(playing sports for my whole life I actually prefer a "mean" coach, I'm not a baby). Language barrier is huge as well as the culture differences. And just based on Stephano's personality and how he repeatedly has said he does not feel the need to practice for matchups and study opponents/work on his technique but instead to just mass game, I'm not surprised that he wouldn't fit in well with the Korean style of training.
One day, we will get a foreigner with the right mindset and talent, who will go to Korea and be willing to put his head down for a year or two to truly take over the game.
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On March 28 2013 00:24 FeyFey wrote:
Good decision, Korea really seems to pull Stephano down a few levels. Some people just work differently. Hope he can get himself in a good mood again.
More like it shows what level he is actually on.
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On March 28 2013 02:39 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 02:18 HappyTimePANDA wrote:
This is disappointing. Foreigners can't keep up with Koreans and then when they take the steps needed to be at a Korean level (training like Koreans) they say the coach is mean and it is too hard. I really hope this is just to Stephano not having the willpower to follow his coaches rules and not because Blizzard is going to region lock:/ Why would they region lock after providing multi-region functionality? I think foreigners so far have not kept up with Koreans because of willpower. Not saying it's not incredibly hard, but why else would he be giving up? Think about it, you go to Korea, you don't speak the language. You are far from home, with a foreign coach who may or not be "mean"(playing sports for my whole life I actually prefer a "mean" coach, I'm not a baby). Language barrier is huge as well as the culture differences. And just based on Stephano's personality and how he repeatedly has said he does not feel the need to practice for matchups and study opponents/work on his technique but instead to just mass game, I'm not surprised that he wouldn't fit in well with the Korean style of training. One day, we will get a foreigner with the right mindset and talent, who will go to Korea and be willing to put his head down for a year or two to truly take over the game.
It's not a region lock for ladder, it's for tournaments. At least that is one of the rumors of the Blizzard announcement on Apr 3rd
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On March 28 2013 02:23 Lysanias wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 02:16 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 02:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 02:03 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:57 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 01:51 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 01:39 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:32 sitromit wrote:On March 28 2013 01:22 Noobity wrote:
I've always thought of the GSL, Proleague, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. as different leagues in the same sport, kinda like the different leagues in the NFL, or MLB. They simply have different ways to go about the same thing. GSL has a lot of mental preparation attached to it because the matches are so far apart and for the most part you know who you're facing long in advance. Proleague has a format where players will be able to focus on maps specifically and matchups they can be used as snipers in. Foreign tournaments require you to be awesome at every matchup at any given time, and to be able to play marathon gaming sessions. To say that any one of those additional skills necessary are less difficult than any of the others is ignorant.
My point is simply that it's disappointing to hear all the hate Stephano's getting for leaving Korea when the tournaments he was there for focused on a play style that he might not be as capable of adapting to. We have this idea that certain foreigners shouldn't have beaten certain koreans, or aren't as good as certain koreans, when the korean players are playing in foreign tournaments. It's simply that there are different styles and the players involved have different strengths and weaknesses not only in the play of the actual game, but also the preparation, and how they handle the individual tournament themselves.
The only things we can say about Stephano leaving Korea are what we've heard first hand. Him leaving is not foreigner laziness, it's him deciding to leave. Focusing on international tournaments doesn't make him a worse player than Koreans, it means that's what he's most comfortable with and where he has the best opportunity to make a living. He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in. Well to be fair, he go 3-0ed by a Kespa player, Last, in one of the most stacked brackets I have ever seen. Last then went 2-3 vs Life, who won MLG. He didn't lose to some scrub, but a guy who almost beat the winner of the entire event. This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too). We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S. When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently. The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player. Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players. Well I can say he did shitty and should have done better. That it is unacceptable to get beaten 3-0 and that is total crap. But you see, I am a Red Sox fan, so I know what slumps are. Unlike many fans in the SC2 scene, who are like weather vains and just band wagon to the next winning Korean player and call him a god of the game until he loses and then its on to the next one. I would say that one is not much better than the other. What's wrong with that? It's basically how Sc2 has worked at the pro level since it's inception. Beta/Late 2010 - Fruitdealer/Tester era. Early - Mid 2011 - Mvp/MC/Nestea era Late 2011 - Mvp/MMA/DRG era Early - Mid 2012 - MKP/DRG era Mid - Late 2012 - Life/Parting/Rain/Leenock/Patch Zerg era Are you denying that players in Sc2 tend to be at the top for about 6 months maximum and then fall off still able to win tournament but never consistently stringing together GSL/MLG wins like Mvp, DRG and Life were able to do at their peaks? Well in the Boston area, we have words for people like that, but I won't use it on TL. But it's called being a fair weather fan. They cheer when their team is winning, but disappear when they aren't. Real fan cheer when the team is playing. I still cheer for MC and willl until he quits. Same with MKP and the members of EG. I am not a fair weather fan, I even cheer when they lose. Most Sc2 fans are a fan of the game more than players so we just like whoever has cool play and shows good games. That is what a fair weather fan is, they don't care who is playing and just cheer for the winner because it is easy. They like to watch the winner and can’t deal with the disappointment, or the idea that they might have to wait to see their favorite player be awesome. Fans like myself and my father who waited 20 years or (nearly 60 in my fathers case) for the Sox to win a world series have little patience for fair weather fans. That's great but ... careface ? Sports = entertainment People should be free to choice any way and form they "follow" the game or a team all they want.
Just ignore Plansix, let him sit on his gold throne. If he thinks he's better than the rest of fans who actually don't want to watch terrible foreigners and prefer watching high-quality games...idk. I still root for the Lakers even though they're absolute shit this year but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy watching the Thunder or the Heat.
So yes, I shall fair-weather teams/players if I want to, and I'll enjoy seeing them win.
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On March 28 2013 02:39 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 02:18 HappyTimePANDA wrote:
This is disappointing. Foreigners can't keep up with Koreans and then when they take the steps needed to be at a Korean level (training like Koreans) they say the coach is mean and it is too hard. I really hope this is just to Stephano not having the willpower to follow his coaches rules and not because Blizzard is going to region lock:/ Why would they region lock after providing multi-region functionality? I think foreigners so far have not kept up with Koreans because of willpower. Not saying it's not incredibly hard, but why else would he be giving up? Think about it, you go to Korea, you don't speak the language. You are far from home, with a foreign coach who may or not be "mean"(playing sports for my whole life I actually prefer a "mean" coach, I'm not a baby). Language barrier is huge as well as the culture differences. And just based on Stephano's personality and how he repeatedly has said he does not feel the need to practice for matchups and study opponents/work on his technique but instead to just mass game, I'm not surprised that he wouldn't fit in well with the Korean style of training. One day, we will get a foreigner with the right mindset and talent, who will go to Korea and be willing to put his head down for a year or two to truly take over the game.
Naniwa
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Bisutopia19302 Posts
I'm fine that he's taking a break from Korea, but he has consistently given trouble to the Gom team and does not deserve another GSL seed ever. He's going to have to earn that right now. I hope he can recover and stay relevant. Lots of ppl love him.
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On March 28 2013 02:35 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 02:16 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 02:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 02:03 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:57 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 01:51 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 01:39 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 01:32 sitromit wrote:On March 28 2013 01:22 Noobity wrote:
I've always thought of the GSL, Proleague, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. as different leagues in the same sport, kinda like the different leagues in the NFL, or MLB. They simply have different ways to go about the same thing. GSL has a lot of mental preparation attached to it because the matches are so far apart and for the most part you know who you're facing long in advance. Proleague has a format where players will be able to focus on maps specifically and matchups they can be used as snipers in. Foreign tournaments require you to be awesome at every matchup at any given time, and to be able to play marathon gaming sessions. To say that any one of those additional skills necessary are less difficult than any of the others is ignorant.
My point is simply that it's disappointing to hear all the hate Stephano's getting for leaving Korea when the tournaments he was there for focused on a play style that he might not be as capable of adapting to. We have this idea that certain foreigners shouldn't have beaten certain koreans, or aren't as good as certain koreans, when the korean players are playing in foreign tournaments. It's simply that there are different styles and the players involved have different strengths and weaknesses not only in the play of the actual game, but also the preparation, and how they handle the individual tournament themselves.
The only things we can say about Stephano leaving Korea are what we've heard first hand. Him leaving is not foreigner laziness, it's him deciding to leave. Focusing on international tournaments doesn't make him a worse player than Koreans, it means that's what he's most comfortable with and where he has the best opportunity to make a living. He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in. Well to be fair, he go 3-0ed by a Kespa player, Last, in one of the most stacked brackets I have ever seen. Last then went 2-3 vs Life, who won MLG. He didn't lose to some scrub, but a guy who almost beat the winner of the entire event. This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too). We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S. When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently. The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player. Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players. Well I can say he did shitty and should have done better. That it is unacceptable to get beaten 3-0 and that is total crap. But you see, I am a Red Sox fan, so I know what slumps are. Unlike many fans in the SC2 scene, who are like weather vains and just band wagon to the next winning Korean player and call him a god of the game until he loses and then its on to the next one. I would say that one is not much better than the other. What's wrong with that? It's basically how Sc2 has worked at the pro level since it's inception. Beta/Late 2010 - Fruitdealer/Tester era. Early - Mid 2011 - Mvp/MC/Nestea era Late 2011 - Mvp/MMA/DRG era Early - Mid 2012 - MKP/DRG era Mid - Late 2012 - Life/Parting/Rain/Leenock/Patch Zerg era Are you denying that players in Sc2 tend to be at the top for about 6 months maximum and then fall off still able to win tournament but never consistently stringing together GSL/MLG wins like Mvp, DRG and Life were able to do at their peaks? Well in the Boston area, we have words for people like that, but I won't use it on TL. But it's called being a fair weather fan. They cheer when their team is winning, but disappear when they aren't. Real fan cheer when the team is playing. I still cheer for MC and willl until he quits. Same with MKP and the members of EG. I am not a fair weather fan, I even cheer when they lose. Most Sc2 fans are a fan of the game more than players so we just like whoever has cool play and shows good games. That is what a fair weather fan is, they don't care who is playing and just cheer for the winner because it is easy. They like to watch the winner and can’t deal with the disappointment, or the idea that they might have to wait to see their favorite player be awesome. Fans like myself and my father who waited 20 years or (nearly 60 in my fathers case) for the Sox to win a world series have little patience for fair weather fans. People are never going to be like that for Sc2 because you don't grow up with a team like you do it in real sports. Instead people support players for their country, region, race, team, playstyle etc.. Real sports are also a lot more consistent, your favourite team is a constant forever. When I first got into Sc2 my favourite players were Nestea, Fruit Dealer, Jinro and July and my favourite team was oGs. Three of those players don't even play anymore, Nestea plays but is a shadow of what he was and oGs has disbanded. I'd love for Nestea to come back but it's not going to happen, so naturally people move onto new players to cheer for who are active.
All of them actually  ive heard people say that Julyzerg shows up in PC bangs to play League of Legend sometimes
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I called this after I saw his interview not surprised in the slightest.
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EPT
