On March 28 2013 01:32 sitromit wrote: [quote] He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in.
Well to be fair, he go 3-0ed by a Kespa player, Last, in one of the most stacked brackets I have ever seen. Last then went 2-3 vs Life, who won MLG. He didn't lose to some scrub, but a guy who almost beat the winner of the entire event.
This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too).
We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S.
When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently.
The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player.
Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players.
Well I can say he did shitty and should have done better. That it is unacceptable to get beaten 3-0 and that is total crap. But you see, I am a Red Sox fan, so I know what slumps are. Unlike many fans in the SC2 scene, who are like weather vains and just band wagon to the next winning Korean player and call him a god of the game until he loses and then its on to the next one. I would say that one is not much better than the other.
What's wrong with that? It's basically how Sc2 has worked at the pro level since it's inception.
Beta/Late 2010 - Fruitdealer/Tester era. Early - Mid 2011 - Mvp/MC/Nestea era Late 2011 - Mvp/MMA/DRG era Early - Mid 2012 - MKP/DRG era Mid - Late 2012 - Life/Parting/Rain/Leenock/Patch Zerg era
Are you denying that players in Sc2 tend to be at the top for about 6 months maximum and then fall off still able to win tournament but never consistently stringing together GSL/MLG wins like Mvp, DRG and Life were able to do at their peaks?
Well in the Boston area, we have words for people like that, but I won't use it on TL. But it's called being a fair weather fan. They cheer when their team is winning, but disappear when they aren't. Real fan cheer when the team is playing. I still cheer for MC and willl until he quits. Same with MKP and the members of EG. I am not a fair weather fan, I even cheer when they lose.
Most Sc2 fans are a fan of the game more than players so we just like whoever has cool play and shows good games.
That is what a fair weather fan is, they don't care who is playing and just cheer for the winner because it is easy. They like to watch the winner and can’t deal with the disappointment, or the idea that they might have to wait to see their favorite player be awesome. Fans like myself and my father who waited 20 years or (nearly 60 in my fathers case) for the Sox to win a world series have little patience for fair weather fans.
That's great but ... careface ? Sports = entertainment People should be free to choice any way and form they "follow" the game or a team all they want.
Just ignore Plansix, let him sit on his gold throne. If he thinks he's better than the rest of fans who actually don't want to watch terrible foreigners and prefer watching high-quality games...idk. I still root for the Lakers even though they're absolute shit this year, doesn't mean I have to treat SC2 the same way.
LOL exactly that kid's been comparing real sports with starcraft 2, and when he does, he always compares team games (insert:baseball, American football, basketball etc.) with a 1v1 game like Starcraft 2.
On March 28 2013 01:22 Noobity wrote: I've always thought of the GSL, Proleague, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. as different leagues in the same sport, kinda like the different leagues in the NFL, or MLB. They simply have different ways to go about the same thing. GSL has a lot of mental preparation attached to it because the matches are so far apart and for the most part you know who you're facing long in advance. Proleague has a format where players will be able to focus on maps specifically and matchups they can be used as snipers in. Foreign tournaments require you to be awesome at every matchup at any given time, and to be able to play marathon gaming sessions. To say that any one of those additional skills necessary are less difficult than any of the others is ignorant.
My point is simply that it's disappointing to hear all the hate Stephano's getting for leaving Korea when the tournaments he was there for focused on a play style that he might not be as capable of adapting to. We have this idea that certain foreigners shouldn't have beaten certain koreans, or aren't as good as certain koreans, when the korean players are playing in foreign tournaments. It's simply that there are different styles and the players involved have different strengths and weaknesses not only in the play of the actual game, but also the preparation, and how they handle the individual tournament themselves.
The only things we can say about Stephano leaving Korea are what we've heard first hand. Him leaving is not foreigner laziness, it's him deciding to leave. Focusing on international tournaments doesn't make him a worse player than Koreans, it means that's what he's most comfortable with and where he has the best opportunity to make a living.
He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in.
Well to be fair, he go 3-0ed by a Kespa player, Last, in one of the most stacked brackets I have ever seen. Last then went 2-3 vs Life, who won MLG. He didn't lose to some scrub, but a guy who almost beat the winner of the entire event.
This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too).
We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S.
When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently.
The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player.
Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players.
Well I can say he did shitty and should have done better. That it is unacceptable to get beaten 3-0 and that is total crap. But you see, I am a Red Sox fan, so I know what slumps are. Unlike many fans in the SC2 scene, who are like weather vains and just band wagon to the next winning Korean player and call him a god of the game until he loses and then its on to the next one. I would say that one is not much better than the other.
What's wrong with that? It's basically how Sc2 has worked at the pro level since it's inception.
Beta/Late 2010 - Fruitdealer/Tester era. Early - Mid 2011 - Mvp/MC/Nestea era Late 2011 - Mvp/MMA/DRG era Early - Mid 2012 - MKP/DRG era Mid - Late 2012 - Life/Parting/Rain/Leenock/Patch Zerg era
Are you denying that players in Sc2 tend to be at the top for about 6 months maximum and then fall off still able to win tournament but never consistently stringing together GSL/MLG wins like Mvp, DRG and Life were able to do at their peaks?
Well in the Boston area, we have words for people like that, but I won't use it on TL. But it's called being a fair weather fan. They cheer when their team is winning, but disappear when they aren't. Real fan cheer when the team is playing. I still cheer for MC and willl until he quits. Same with MKP and the members of EG. I am not a fair weather fan, I even cheer when they lose.
Most Sc2 fans are a fan of the game more than players so we just like whoever has cool play and shows good games.
That is what a fair weather fan is, they don't care who is playing and just cheer for the winner because it is easy. They like to watch the winner and can’t deal with the disappointment, or the idea that they might have to wait to see their favorite player be awesome. Fans like myself and my father who waited 20 years or (nearly 60 in my fathers case) for the Sox to win a world series have little patience for fair weather fans.
People are never going to be like that for Sc2 because you don't grow up with a team like you do it in real sports.
Instead people support players for their country, region, race, team, playstyle etc..
Real sports are also a lot more consistent, your favourite team is a constant forever. When I first got into Sc2 my favourite players were Nestea, Fruit Dealer, Jinro and July and my favourite team was oGs. Three of those players don't even play anymore, Nestea plays but is a shadow of what he was and oGs has disbanded. I'd love for Nestea to come back but it's not going to happen, so naturally people move onto new players to cheer for who are active.
Real sports are no more consistent than Esports. Winning 5 super bowls in a row is unheard of, or 5 masters or any number of World Series. The Yankees are known for winning 26 world series in the life of the ball club, which dates back nearly 100 years. They are the only club with that many titles in all of professional sports. The only reason teams seem consistent in real sports is because their seasons take a full year. And people who cheer for a team one year, only to leave them when they lose next year.
Once again, you can cheer for the top player if you want, but don’t go out of your way to mock the people who are fans the guys who lost or are doing poorly.
On March 28 2013 02:49 BisuDagger wrote: I'm fine that he's taking a break from Korea, but he has consistently given trouble to the Gom team and does not deserve another GSL seed ever. He's going to have to earn that right now. I hope he can recover and stay relevant. Lots of ppl love him.
Uhh...what? When has he ever given trouble to the GOM team, let alone "consistently"? It's okay to appreciate him being gone, but stay with the facts, please.
On March 28 2013 00:22 DtorR wrote: Is there more money involved playing on international tournaments? Even though playing in GSL Code S is an honour but I feel that to win it is not worth the effort. The competition in the international level is a little easier than in Korea.
code S has more prize money but it is way easier to get money out of international tournements.
People keep saying this, but it's short-term thinking that may not be relevant anymore. It may not have even been true when IdrA made the decision to leave, because even then Koreans were beginning to enter foreign tournaments.
You're giving up skill ceiling to get "easier" competition, except Koreans, who are still benefiting from the higher skill ceiling that their training provides, are also a part of those competitions now. You'll get a few thousand here or there from smaller tournaments like DH Bucharest or HSC, but all of the major tournaments have gone to Koreans.
If you were to calculate the money earned from foreign tournaments by country in 2012-13, 90%+ would probably go to Koreans. So I'm not sure that the payout from going home is really that much better than being a GSL Code S player, since Code S players are in all of the important American and European tournaments.
It's somewhere around 64% for Koreans vs 36% for foreigners and that includes Korean tournaments.
Money earned by foreigners in Korea should be a negligible amount, so foreign tournaments still provide easy money in comparison.
It's actually 66% but there's a few problems with just using SC2 Earnings (aside from SC2 Earnings being pretty awful for any kind of data manipulation.) Most of the big foreign tournaments can still be attended while training in Korea, and there's still going to be a trend towards greater competition in foreign tournaments as more and more Koreans head over each year, especially now with KeSPA players playing SC2 for a full year. You're right that there's still some money across the dozens of smaller tournaments, but we're at the point where it's beginning to preclude you from accessing the big money, besides certain things like WCS which spread money 100% evenly.
It's less the GSL spot and more the training opportunity that makes you more competitive when do you do attend foreign events, like HuK and Naniwa did.
On March 28 2013 01:39 Plansix wrote: [quote] Well to be fair, he go 3-0ed by a Kespa player, Last, in one of the most stacked brackets I have ever seen. Last then went 2-3 vs Life, who won MLG. He didn't lose to some scrub, but a guy who almost beat the winner of the entire event.
This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too).
We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S.
When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently.
The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player.
Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players.
Well I can say he did shitty and should have done better. That it is unacceptable to get beaten 3-0 and that is total crap. But you see, I am a Red Sox fan, so I know what slumps are. Unlike many fans in the SC2 scene, who are like weather vains and just band wagon to the next winning Korean player and call him a god of the game until he loses and then its on to the next one. I would say that one is not much better than the other.
What's wrong with that? It's basically how Sc2 has worked at the pro level since it's inception.
Beta/Late 2010 - Fruitdealer/Tester era. Early - Mid 2011 - Mvp/MC/Nestea era Late 2011 - Mvp/MMA/DRG era Early - Mid 2012 - MKP/DRG era Mid - Late 2012 - Life/Parting/Rain/Leenock/Patch Zerg era
Are you denying that players in Sc2 tend to be at the top for about 6 months maximum and then fall off still able to win tournament but never consistently stringing together GSL/MLG wins like Mvp, DRG and Life were able to do at their peaks?
Well in the Boston area, we have words for people like that, but I won't use it on TL. But it's called being a fair weather fan. They cheer when their team is winning, but disappear when they aren't. Real fan cheer when the team is playing. I still cheer for MC and willl until he quits. Same with MKP and the members of EG. I am not a fair weather fan, I even cheer when they lose.
Most Sc2 fans are a fan of the game more than players so we just like whoever has cool play and shows good games.
That is what a fair weather fan is, they don't care who is playing and just cheer for the winner because it is easy. They like to watch the winner and can’t deal with the disappointment, or the idea that they might have to wait to see their favorite player be awesome. Fans like myself and my father who waited 20 years or (nearly 60 in my fathers case) for the Sox to win a world series have little patience for fair weather fans.
That's great but ... careface ? Sports = entertainment People should be free to choice any way and form they "follow" the game or a team all they want.
Just ignore Plansix, let him sit on his gold throne. If he thinks he's better than the rest of fans who actually don't want to watch terrible foreigners and prefer watching high-quality games...idk. I still root for the Lakers even though they're absolute shit this year, doesn't mean I have to treat SC2 the same way.
LOL exactly that kid's been comparing real sports with starcraft 2, and when he does, he always compares team games (insert:baseball, American football, basketball etc.) with a 1v1 game like Starcraft 2.
I normally use golf, which is as close to SC2, as its not a team sport, requires tons of practices and a good mental game. It also has a ton of interconnected, international tournaments, but no national league.
And the reason I point do this is because people like to make a tons of claims about how things should work in a competitive scene, but don’t look to other competitive leagues for examples of how to make systems work. There was a huge thread saying that where people claimed only the top players should win prize money, but they never noted that the GSL hands money out to anyone who qualifies.
On March 28 2013 02:49 BisuDagger wrote: I'm fine that he's taking a break from Korea, but he has consistently given trouble to the Gom team and does not deserve another GSL seed ever. He's going to have to earn that right now. I hope he can recover and stay relevant. Lots of ppl love him.
Uhh...what? When has he ever given trouble to the GOM team, let alone "consistently"? It's okay to appreciate him being gone, but stay with the facts, please.
Not accepting seeds, saying he is going to give up U&D game etc.
On March 28 2013 00:24 FeyFey wrote: Good decision, Korea really seems to pull Stephano down a few levels. Some people just work differently. Hope he can get himself in a good mood again.
More like it shows what level he is actually on.
A bit of both. GSL showed, that he is not on a top Code-S level, which everyone should have known before already. But it also pulled him down; his PL record was once the second highest percatadge (of more that one game) and did go down towards the end, he lost a bo3 against Grubby somewhere I think and while Grubby is a good player, their previous record was more one-sided than GoOdy-Cloud.
On March 28 2013 01:32 sitromit wrote: [quote] He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in.
Well to be fair, he go 3-0ed by a Kespa player, Last, in one of the most stacked brackets I have ever seen. Last then went 2-3 vs Life, who won MLG. He didn't lose to some scrub, but a guy who almost beat the winner of the entire event.
This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too).
We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S.
When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently.
The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player.
Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players.
Well I can say he did shitty and should have done better. That it is unacceptable to get beaten 3-0 and that is total crap. But you see, I am a Red Sox fan, so I know what slumps are. Unlike many fans in the SC2 scene, who are like weather vains and just band wagon to the next winning Korean player and call him a god of the game until he loses and then its on to the next one. I would say that one is not much better than the other.
What's wrong with that? It's basically how Sc2 has worked at the pro level since it's inception.
Beta/Late 2010 - Fruitdealer/Tester era. Early - Mid 2011 - Mvp/MC/Nestea era Late 2011 - Mvp/MMA/DRG era Early - Mid 2012 - MKP/DRG era Mid - Late 2012 - Life/Parting/Rain/Leenock/Patch Zerg era
Are you denying that players in Sc2 tend to be at the top for about 6 months maximum and then fall off still able to win tournament but never consistently stringing together GSL/MLG wins like Mvp, DRG and Life were able to do at their peaks?
Well in the Boston area, we have words for people like that, but I won't use it on TL. But it's called being a fair weather fan. They cheer when their team is winning, but disappear when they aren't. Real fan cheer when the team is playing. I still cheer for MC and willl until he quits. Same with MKP and the members of EG. I am not a fair weather fan, I even cheer when they lose.
Most Sc2 fans are a fan of the game more than players so we just like whoever has cool play and shows good games.
That is what a fair weather fan is, they don't care who is playing and just cheer for the winner because it is easy. They like to watch the winner and can’t deal with the disappointment, or the idea that they might have to wait to see their favorite player be awesome. Fans like myself and my father who waited 20 years or (nearly 60 in my fathers case) for the Sox to win a world series have little patience for fair weather fans.
People are never going to be like that for Sc2 because you don't grow up with a team like you do it in real sports.
Instead people support players for their country, region, race, team, playstyle etc..
Real sports are also a lot more consistent, your favourite team is a constant forever. When I first got into Sc2 my favourite players were Nestea, Fruit Dealer, Jinro and July and my favourite team was oGs. Three of those players don't even play anymore, Nestea plays but is a shadow of what he was and oGs has disbanded. I'd love for Nestea to come back but it's not going to happen, so naturally people move onto new players to cheer for who are active.
Real sports are no more consistent than Esports. Winning 5 super bowls in a row is unheard of, or 5 masters or any number of World Series. The Yankees are known for winning 26 world series in the life of the ball club, which dates back nearly 100 years. They are the only club with that many titles in all of professional sports. The only reason teams seem consistent in real sports is because their seasons take a full year. And people who cheer for a team one year, only to leave them when they lose next year.
Once again, you can cheer for the top player if you want, but don’t go out of your way to mock the people who are fans the guys who lost or are doing poorly.
Well maybe in terrible American sports because you have comical affirmative action rules.
And don't patronise me because aren't the Boston Red Sox the 2nd greatest team in the history of American baseball?
My football team Huddersfield Town have been basically total shit since the 1930s and have never been in the top division in my lifetime and yet 10-20k fans watch them every week.
Also absolutely loads of football teams have more than 26 titles.
On March 28 2013 01:39 Plansix wrote: [quote] Well to be fair, he go 3-0ed by a Kespa player, Last, in one of the most stacked brackets I have ever seen. Last then went 2-3 vs Life, who won MLG. He didn't lose to some scrub, but a guy who almost beat the winner of the entire event.
This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too).
We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S.
When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently.
The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player.
Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players.
Well I can say he did shitty and should have done better. That it is unacceptable to get beaten 3-0 and that is total crap. But you see, I am a Red Sox fan, so I know what slumps are. Unlike many fans in the SC2 scene, who are like weather vains and just band wagon to the next winning Korean player and call him a god of the game until he loses and then its on to the next one. I would say that one is not much better than the other.
What's wrong with that? It's basically how Sc2 has worked at the pro level since it's inception.
Beta/Late 2010 - Fruitdealer/Tester era. Early - Mid 2011 - Mvp/MC/Nestea era Late 2011 - Mvp/MMA/DRG era Early - Mid 2012 - MKP/DRG era Mid - Late 2012 - Life/Parting/Rain/Leenock/Patch Zerg era
Are you denying that players in Sc2 tend to be at the top for about 6 months maximum and then fall off still able to win tournament but never consistently stringing together GSL/MLG wins like Mvp, DRG and Life were able to do at their peaks?
Well in the Boston area, we have words for people like that, but I won't use it on TL. But it's called being a fair weather fan. They cheer when their team is winning, but disappear when they aren't. Real fan cheer when the team is playing. I still cheer for MC and willl until he quits. Same with MKP and the members of EG. I am not a fair weather fan, I even cheer when they lose.
Most Sc2 fans are a fan of the game more than players so we just like whoever has cool play and shows good games.
That is what a fair weather fan is, they don't care who is playing and just cheer for the winner because it is easy. They like to watch the winner and can’t deal with the disappointment, or the idea that they might have to wait to see their favorite player be awesome. Fans like myself and my father who waited 20 years or (nearly 60 in my fathers case) for the Sox to win a world series have little patience for fair weather fans.
That's great but ... careface ? Sports = entertainment People should be free to choice any way and form they "follow" the game or a team all they want.
But then making fun people who cheer for these players, claiming they are "fan boy" pretty much goes against what you just said there. Or did you see what started this argument in the first place?
Your agruments are pointless and to long for you compare a "real" sport with something as fast moving as E-sports. I did not enjoy reading they way you presented yourself as the high and mighty in that last post as if long time fans actualy only matter and as if you are more special and as if you don't suport a single team or player is something of a crime.
Suporting starcraft works a little bit different then a sport team that has been around for 100 years or so.
Well, I don’t enjoy being called a fan boy because I cheer for EG, MC or MKP, even when they lose. It insulting and makes it seem like I am cheering without reason, which I am not. And if someone is going to call someone a fan boy(which I know you didn’t), they need to be prepared to be called a fair weather fan who only cheers for the player who is winning at the time because it’s easy.
This is kind of how being a fan for sports teams works. A little trash talking is part of the fun, as long as its all good natured.
On March 28 2013 00:22 DtorR wrote: Is there more money involved playing on international tournaments? Even though playing in GSL Code S is an honour but I feel that to win it is not worth the effort. The competition in the international level is a little easier than in Korea.
Not read past this but yes. No money in Korea unless you hit top 4 of a variance filled event with the toughest lineup possible.
On March 28 2013 01:39 Plansix wrote: [quote] Well to be fair, he go 3-0ed by a Kespa player, Last, in one of the most stacked brackets I have ever seen. Last then went 2-3 vs Life, who won MLG. He didn't lose to some scrub, but a guy who almost beat the winner of the entire event.
This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too).
We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S.
When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently.
The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player.
Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players.
Well I can say he did shitty and should have done better. That it is unacceptable to get beaten 3-0 and that is total crap. But you see, I am a Red Sox fan, so I know what slumps are. Unlike many fans in the SC2 scene, who are like weather vains and just band wagon to the next winning Korean player and call him a god of the game until he loses and then its on to the next one. I would say that one is not much better than the other.
What's wrong with that? It's basically how Sc2 has worked at the pro level since it's inception.
Beta/Late 2010 - Fruitdealer/Tester era. Early - Mid 2011 - Mvp/MC/Nestea era Late 2011 - Mvp/MMA/DRG era Early - Mid 2012 - MKP/DRG era Mid - Late 2012 - Life/Parting/Rain/Leenock/Patch Zerg era
Are you denying that players in Sc2 tend to be at the top for about 6 months maximum and then fall off still able to win tournament but never consistently stringing together GSL/MLG wins like Mvp, DRG and Life were able to do at their peaks?
Well in the Boston area, we have words for people like that, but I won't use it on TL. But it's called being a fair weather fan. They cheer when their team is winning, but disappear when they aren't. Real fan cheer when the team is playing. I still cheer for MC and willl until he quits. Same with MKP and the members of EG. I am not a fair weather fan, I even cheer when they lose.
Most Sc2 fans are a fan of the game more than players so we just like whoever has cool play and shows good games.
That is what a fair weather fan is, they don't care who is playing and just cheer for the winner because it is easy. They like to watch the winner and can’t deal with the disappointment, or the idea that they might have to wait to see their favorite player be awesome. Fans like myself and my father who waited 20 years or (nearly 60 in my fathers case) for the Sox to win a world series have little patience for fair weather fans.
People are never going to be like that for Sc2 because you don't grow up with a team like you do it in real sports.
Instead people support players for their country, region, race, team, playstyle etc..
Real sports are also a lot more consistent, your favourite team is a constant forever. When I first got into Sc2 my favourite players were Nestea, Fruit Dealer, Jinro and July and my favourite team was oGs. Three of those players don't even play anymore, Nestea plays but is a shadow of what he was and oGs has disbanded. I'd love for Nestea to come back but it's not going to happen, so naturally people move onto new players to cheer for who are active.
Real sports are no more consistent than Esports. Winning 5 super bowls in a row is unheard of, or 5 masters or any number of World Series. The Yankees are known for winning 26 world series in the life of the ball club, which dates back nearly 100 years. They are the only club with that many titles in all of professional sports. The only reason teams seem consistent in real sports is because their seasons take a full year. And people who cheer for a team one year, only to leave them when they lose next year.
Once again, you can cheer for the top player if you want, but don’t go out of your way to mock the people who are fans the guys who lost or are doing poorly.
Well maybe in terrible American sports because you have comical affirmative action rules.
And don't patronise me because aren't the Boston Red Sox the 2nd greatest team in the history of American baseball?
My football team Huddersfield Town have been basically total shit since the 1930s and have never been in the top division in my lifetime and yet 10-20k fans watch them every week.
Also absolutely loads of football teams have more than 26 titles.
The Red Sox didn’t win a world series for 86 years, it was called the Curse of the Bambino and it was a huge part of the lore of the city of Boston for years. They are a good baseball team, but not the second best for raw numbers(hopefully my father won’t read this). And I am talking about America sports, I don’t follow soccer at all, but I am sure that some clubs have a good number of titles. I don’t know about these “comical affirmative action rules” are, unless you are talking about salary caps for teams.
But this is what you get for calling me a fan boy and mindlessly cheering for Stephano.
The formulation "in all of professional sports" is including all of professional sports, not just the popular american ones. I not even be surprised, if there would be a swimmer or smth, who has more world titels alone.
I think MLG and IEM showed pretty much, that Stephano has other concerns than GSL Code S right now. So I fully understand the move. He stated not being comfortable at the EG-TL house. So if it's not fitting for him there, he has no reason to stay.
On March 28 2013 01:32 sitromit wrote: [quote] He got 3-0'ed at MLG and IEM too. It has nothing to do with tournament format. Most of his big wins were in tournaments with much weaker competition compared to the GSL or the other tournaments he didn't do well in.
Well to be fair, he go 3-0ed by a Kespa player, Last, in one of the most stacked brackets I have ever seen. Last then went 2-3 vs Life, who won MLG. He didn't lose to some scrub, but a guy who almost beat the winner of the entire event.
This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too).
We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S.
When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently.
The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player.
Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players.
Well I can say he did shitty and should have done better. That it is unacceptable to get beaten 3-0 and that is total crap. But you see, I am a Red Sox fan, so I know what slumps are. Unlike many fans in the SC2 scene, who are like weather vains and just band wagon to the next winning Korean player and call him a god of the game until he loses and then its on to the next one. I would say that one is not much better than the other.
What's wrong with that? It's basically how Sc2 has worked at the pro level since it's inception.
Beta/Late 2010 - Fruitdealer/Tester era. Early - Mid 2011 - Mvp/MC/Nestea era Late 2011 - Mvp/MMA/DRG era Early - Mid 2012 - MKP/DRG era Mid - Late 2012 - Life/Parting/Rain/Leenock/Patch Zerg era
Are you denying that players in Sc2 tend to be at the top for about 6 months maximum and then fall off still able to win tournament but never consistently stringing together GSL/MLG wins like Mvp, DRG and Life were able to do at their peaks?
Well in the Boston area, we have words for people like that, but I won't use it on TL. But it's called being a fair weather fan. They cheer when their team is winning, but disappear when they aren't. Real fan cheer when the team is playing. I still cheer for MC and willl until he quits. Same with MKP and the members of EG. I am not a fair weather fan, I even cheer when they lose.
Most Sc2 fans are a fan of the game more than players so we just like whoever has cool play and shows good games.
That is what a fair weather fan is, they don't care who is playing and just cheer for the winner because it is easy. They like to watch the winner and can’t deal with the disappointment, or the idea that they might have to wait to see their favorite player be awesome. Fans like myself and my father who waited 20 years or (nearly 60 in my fathers case) for the Sox to win a world series have little patience for fair weather fans.
People are never going to be like that for Sc2 because you don't grow up with a team like you do it in real sports.
Instead people support players for their country, region, race, team, playstyle etc..
Real sports are also a lot more consistent, your favourite team is a constant forever. When I first got into Sc2 my favourite players were Nestea, Fruit Dealer, Jinro and July and my favourite team was oGs. Three of those players don't even play anymore, Nestea plays but is a shadow of what he was and oGs has disbanded. I'd love for Nestea to come back but it's not going to happen, so naturally people move onto new players to cheer for who are active.
All of them actually ive heard people say that Julyzerg shows up in PC bangs to play League of Legend sometimes
Isn't Julyzerg in the army now? It never got mentioned it but people assumed so. I am still hoping he will come back. He was the first zerg that actually was aggressive before you got muta's.
On March 28 2013 00:22 DtorR wrote: Is there more money involved playing on international tournaments? Even though playing in GSL Code S is an honour but I feel that to win it is not worth the effort. The competition in the international level is a little easier than in Korea.
Not read past this but yes. No money in Korea unless you hit top 4 of a variance filled event with the toughest lineup possible.
If you are talking just about cash payout only then of course. The money for the first foreigner to win GSL is seriously limitless. Can you believe the hype? Can you believe the fan base that would create? Too many people think short term. Oh GSL is too much trouble to win, but the upside for a foreigner winning it are HUGE. The problem is with the community of course, it is more focused on popularity and celebrity than the actual game. While that is great short term, you will see the true colors when it's nothing but Koreans winning everything and all of a sudden fewer and fewer people care about watching SC2 because white boys can't compete.
Time will tell of course, but I don't see more and more foreigners adopting Korean practices so they will always be consistently behind.
On March 28 2013 02:49 BisuDagger wrote: I'm fine that he's taking a break from Korea, but he has consistently given trouble to the Gom team and does not deserve another GSL seed ever. He's going to have to earn that right now. I hope he can recover and stay relevant. Lots of ppl love him.
Uhh...what? When has he ever given trouble to the GOM team, let alone "consistently"? It's okay to appreciate him being gone, but stay with the facts, please.
He gave up his seed once already in tweet and then took it back. And He consistently turned down code S offers until finally accepting one. I am staying with the facts. I consider that causing issues. I don't see any other players causing GSL drama but him. No need to take offense to my opinion based of off the facts.
EPT
ive heard people say that Julyzerg shows up in PC bangs to play League of Legend sometimes 
