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On March 28 2013 00:52 mongmong wrote:
This is a great choice for Stephano, why compete against a bunch of koreans for such small prize money (small relative to the tournament length when gsl goes for almost 2 months whereas other tourneys finish within 3 days) when he knows that he can pwn foreigners left and right in the international tournaments?
This isn't WOL circa 2012. Stephano doesn't even dominate foreigners anymore.
In a post Brood Lord/Infestor world Stephano won't be anywhere near as dominant against Protoss/Terran opponents.
Not to mention of course that Koreans still show up to MLG's and to a lesser extent Dreamhack and IEM.
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On March 28 2013 00:48 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 00:41 StarStruck wrote:On March 28 2013 00:34 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 00:22 DtorR wrote:
Is there more money involved playing on international tournaments? Even though playing in GSL Code S is an honour but I feel that to win it is not worth the effort. The competition in the international level is a little easier than in Korea. Not only that, but Stephano was having some real problems in Korea. English is his third language and the only way he could communicate with Koreans. That had to be the most frustrating experience in the world and very stressful. Even simply stuff like ordering food or taking a cab must have been a nightmare. That combined with the training and apparent lack of support they were getting before Coach Park joined, I am not surprised he is taking a break of Korea. I don’t think this has much to do with the difficulty of code S, but living in Korea as a whole was not for him and had a really negative effect on him. Lack of support? I don't know what you guys are talking about. Stephano's English is good. You have no privacy. You're around the rest of the boys all the time. They have management in place to address him. Now I can see player's being stubborn when it comes to coaches trying to get them to do what they want them to do. He had a coach there already. Coach Park isn't supposed to be some kind of savior as you guys make him out to be. The guy will help when it comes to bringing new talent in. Lots of us knew he was no longer in Korea and heck, some might think it's because the next round hasn't officially started plus the special tournament where he isn't readily available for selection makes it a no wonder. You should listen to the interview on the Pulse this week with Alex Garfield. He flat out says he did not have enough support for players in the EG-TL Lab and their coaching was not sufficient. He goes farther to say they are taking steps to provide better support for players in both NA and Korea. The third language issue is a thing as well, since all Koreans don’t speak or understand perfect English. These are the kind of issues that people don’t take into account when they send their players off to other countries. It is not rocket science to say “I am sending this player off to another country with a wildly different language and culture. I wonder if adjusting that change will have a negative effect on their practice and play?”
Rather not because I take everything that guy says with a grain of salt and considering how many ridiculous podcasts are out there. You only have so much time for everything. That's what he believes and he only checks in from time to time. Trot is proven. I'm sorry you guys don't feel that way yet with EG but this guy has a ton of experience. Why the heck you think they brought him in the first place? lol The support they need comes down to more personnel. More sparring partners. Good luck with North America. Unless you relocate them all to a centralized location that's just throwing away money. Have one operation and pick where you want it. It isn't rocket science. You have to identify whether or not that player can adapt beforehand and considering Stephano has always had a lax and "I don't know how much longer I'm going to play before Med School attitude" you're taking a pretty big risk. If I were Alex I would have taken that risk too because the kid got talent. End of story.
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On March 28 2013 00:46 scissorhands wrote:
I don't know why I'm having so much trouble finding Stephano's proleague record. Anyone have that handy?
His PL record is 6-5.
Stephano wasnt mentally cut out for what was expected of him in Korea. Many people are implying that it means he wasnt cut out for the standard of play but thats nonsense as his record in Korea shows. He can go toe to toe with the Koreans even in Korea. But that doesnt mean he is as good as life or mvp....
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On March 28 2013 00:55 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 00:52 mongmong wrote:
This is a great choice for Stephano, why compete against a bunch of koreans for such small prize money (small relative to the tournament length when gsl goes for almost 2 months whereas other tourneys finish within 3 days) when he knows that he can pwn foreigners left and right in the international tournaments? This isn't WOL circa 2012. Stephano doesn't even dominate foreigners anymore. In a post Brood Lord/Infestor world Stephano won't be anywhere near as dominant against Protoss/Terran opponents. Not to mention of course that Koreans still show up to MLG's and to a lesser extent Dreamhack and IEM.
Zerg still have roaches, right? Last time I checked, Stephano was the Roach King long before we ever even thought of the phrase “patchzerg".
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Not surprised either. Just a shame that he didn't do this before his up and down matches.
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On March 28 2013 00:40 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 00:30 mki wrote:
The main issue is foreigners never really had to work for their seeds so they don't appreciate it. How many foreigners have actually made it to GSL the traditional method? Sure you can argue they deserve it because they win up/down matches - but they never had to struggle through traditional GSL qualifiers.
There will never be a true top foreign contender until someone who is willing to do so and work hard for it shows up. Going to Korea just to "practice" isn't enough. It's about understanding the rigorous training schedule all these Koreans are FORCED to take up because it's so hard to qualify for GSL through qualifiers. I think you are disregarding the fact that Stephano was really unhappy living in Korea. As I stated before, English is his third language and he was having a really hard time communicating with anyone. That can have a very isolating affect on someone and lead to depression or other problems if it isn’t addressed. That and it is a pain in the ass. With the apparent lack of support that the EG-TL house was providing before Coach Park, it is no wonder Stephano wanted to get to a place with a better environment for him. It’s not about foreigners being ungrateful, but about teams sending their players off to Korea and not taking care of them. These guys are living in a foreign country where they don’t speak or read the language. The teams should make more efforts to help them acclimate, rather than just dropping them infront of a PC and saying “get to it”.
you talk as if EG dispatches him to Korea from the airplane with a parachute and nothing else. Come to think of it, foreigners coming to Korea in early 2000s (in both bw & wc3) didnt have one fourth the "support" that Stephano has (yeah they didnt get seeded either) and they still enjoyed Korea and used this opportunity to develop. Yes theres lots of failures but no one needs such excuses lol.
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On March 28 2013 00:55 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 00:52 mongmong wrote:
This is a great choice for Stephano, why compete against a bunch of koreans for such small prize money (small relative to the tournament length when gsl goes for almost 2 months whereas other tourneys finish within 3 days) when he knows that he can pwn foreigners left and right in the international tournaments? This isn't WOL circa 2012. Stephano doesn't even dominate foreigners anymore. In a post Brood Lord/Infestor world Stephano won't be anywhere near as dominant against Protoss/Terran opponents. Not to mention of course that Koreans still show up to MLG's and to a lesser extent Dreamhack and IEM.
Stephano may have been the best bl infestor playing foreigner but that doesnt mean its what he relied on. Not like he innovated multiple styles in multiple match ups that became standard play. I think predicting him to become at the minimum the best foreign zerg in HotS is completely reasonable if he feels comfortable at home again. I expect him to win at least one premier tournament in HotS.
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On March 28 2013 00:56 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 00:48 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 00:41 StarStruck wrote:On March 28 2013 00:34 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 00:22 DtorR wrote:
Is there more money involved playing on international tournaments? Even though playing in GSL Code S is an honour but I feel that to win it is not worth the effort. The competition in the international level is a little easier than in Korea. Not only that, but Stephano was having some real problems in Korea. English is his third language and the only way he could communicate with Koreans. That had to be the most frustrating experience in the world and very stressful. Even simply stuff like ordering food or taking a cab must have been a nightmare. That combined with the training and apparent lack of support they were getting before Coach Park joined, I am not surprised he is taking a break of Korea. I don’t think this has much to do with the difficulty of code S, but living in Korea as a whole was not for him and had a really negative effect on him. Lack of support? I don't know what you guys are talking about. Stephano's English is good. You have no privacy. You're around the rest of the boys all the time. They have management in place to address him. Now I can see player's being stubborn when it comes to coaches trying to get them to do what they want them to do. He had a coach there already. Coach Park isn't supposed to be some kind of savior as you guys make him out to be. The guy will help when it comes to bringing new talent in. Lots of us knew he was no longer in Korea and heck, some might think it's because the next round hasn't officially started plus the special tournament where he isn't readily available for selection makes it a no wonder. You should listen to the interview on the Pulse this week with Alex Garfield. He flat out says he did not have enough support for players in the EG-TL Lab and their coaching was not sufficient. He goes farther to say they are taking steps to provide better support for players in both NA and Korea. The third language issue is a thing as well, since all Koreans don’t speak or understand perfect English. These are the kind of issues that people don’t take into account when they send their players off to other countries. It is not rocket science to say “I am sending this player off to another country with a wildly different language and culture. I wonder if adjusting that change will have a negative effect on their practice and play?” Rather not because I take everything that guy says with a grain of salt and considering how many ridiculous podcasts are out there. You only have so much time for everything. That's what he believes and he only checks in from time to time. Trot is proven. I'm sorry you guys don't feel that way yet with EG but this guy has a ton of experience. Why the heck you think they brought him in the first place? lol The support they need comes down to more personnel. More sparring partners. Good luck with North America. Unless you relocate them all to a centralized location that's just throwing away money. Have one operation and pick where you want it. It isn't rocket science. You have to identify whether or not that player can adapt beforehand and considering Stephano has always had a lax and "I don't know how much longer I'm going to play before Med School attitude" you're taking a pretty big risk. If I were Alex I would have taken that risk too because the kid got talent. End of story.
Starstruck, I get what you are saying and I agree that everything should be taking with a grain of salt. But I still think you should check it out, because I think it is worth your time and you can sort the BS from the real stuff. Garfield is very canded about the state of things in Korean and his mistakes with the team. And he doesn't blame anyone other than himself. Also, Mr. Bitter doesn't give Garfield a lot of breaks when it comes to the interview, either.
I am with you on that training in NA is a bad idea and will not help players inprove quickly. However, the current way teams are training their players in Korea isn't much better. You can't just take a player that was winning some events, drop them in Korean with a computer, a bed, food and point them in the direction of the GOM studio. I know there is more going on that than, but teams need to think of sending their players to Korea like taking and Korean player and dropping them in New York. There needs to be a plan.
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On March 28 2013 00:46 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 00:36 GunSec wrote:
he said on his latest stream that his next tournament was dreamhack so he is going to miss GSL code s 100 %, he has forfeited his spot for sure. Give the spot to Sortof or Scarlett! Hell no, I hope GOM won't give spots to foreigners anymore.
This. I'm sick of charity seeds being given out to foreigners that go home after a month or two. Let the Koreans that actually deserve the spot have it.
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All the best to Stephano, I hope he feels better at home and is able to keep his life on track.
Personally, this will not affect my appreciation for the Korean scene. Maybe it's all the days of watching VODs of Korean commentators not understanding what they were saying, but I always loved the Starcraft scene because of its distance from Western culture. If the majority foreign fans need someone with white skin and the knowledge of the English language competing to make the game entertaining, well, that's just unfortunate.
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Fair enough Stephano. I know that I as a westerner would not be able to live in South Korea because I find koreans very standoffish, their work ethic causes depression to anyone who is not used to it and the language barrier basically destroys your ability to socialise. Anyways gl wherever you are going.
ps. If I was you, I would go sunbathing in Arizona. 
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On March 28 2013 00:55 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 00:52 mongmong wrote:
This is a great choice for Stephano, why compete against a bunch of koreans for such small prize money (small relative to the tournament length when gsl goes for almost 2 months whereas other tourneys finish within 3 days) when he knows that he can pwn foreigners left and right in the international tournaments? This isn't WOL circa 2012. Stephano doesn't even dominate foreigners anymore. In a post Brood Lord/Infestor world Stephano won't be anywhere near as dominant against Protoss/Terran opponents. Not to mention of course that Koreans still show up to MLG's and to a lesser extent Dreamhack and IEM.
yea i was gonna say something like this.
the day of the foreign zerg is over.
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This foreigners flying in Code S and leaving a week after is really frustrating. Especially if you see alot of good quality Koreans put aside for it.
Is Grubby still in Korea?
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On March 28 2013 01:13 Juggernaut477 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 00:46 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 28 2013 00:36 GunSec wrote:
he said on his latest stream that his next tournament was dreamhack so he is going to miss GSL code s 100 %, he has forfeited his spot for sure. Give the spot to Sortof or Scarlett! Hell no, I hope GOM won't give spots to foreigners anymore. This. I'm sick of charity seeds being given out to foreigners that go home after a month or two. Let the Koreans that actually deserve the spot have it.
Except for Scarlett please
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On March 28 2013 00:59 Arceus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 00:40 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 00:30 mki wrote:
The main issue is foreigners never really had to work for their seeds so they don't appreciate it. How many foreigners have actually made it to GSL the traditional method? Sure you can argue they deserve it because they win up/down matches - but they never had to struggle through traditional GSL qualifiers.
There will never be a true top foreign contender until someone who is willing to do so and work hard for it shows up. Going to Korea just to "practice" isn't enough. It's about understanding the rigorous training schedule all these Koreans are FORCED to take up because it's so hard to qualify for GSL through qualifiers. I think you are disregarding the fact that Stephano was really unhappy living in Korea. As I stated before, English is his third language and he was having a really hard time communicating with anyone. That can have a very isolating affect on someone and lead to depression or other problems if it isn’t addressed. That and it is a pain in the ass. With the apparent lack of support that the EG-TL house was providing before Coach Park, it is no wonder Stephano wanted to get to a place with a better environment for him. It’s not about foreigners being ungrateful, but about teams sending their players off to Korea and not taking care of them. These guys are living in a foreign country where they don’t speak or read the language. The teams should make more efforts to help them acclimate, rather than just dropping them infront of a PC and saying “get to it”. you talk as if EG dispatches him to Korea from the airplane with a parachute and nothing else. Come to think of it, foreigners coming to Korea in early 2000s (in both bw & wc3) didnt have one fourth the "support" that Stephano has (yeah they didnt get seeded either) and they still enjoyed Korea and used this opportunity to develop. Yes theres lots of failures but no one needs such excuses lol.
But all of those players wanted to go to Korea to train and get better. They did it on their own dime. It is unclear if Stephano would ever have moved to Korea if he was not on EG(I doubt it). I am not making excuses for Stephano leaving, but more that the current situtation was not a good training environment for him at all. And creating a good training environment for your players is the teams problem. And if the player is really unhappy, he isn't going to preform.
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Another financially sound decision, another kick in the balls of those hard working Koreans who'd give their left leg for a shot at GSL.
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United States33662 Posts
On March 28 2013 00:59 Proseat wrote:
Not surprised either. Just a shame that he didn't do this before his up and down matches.
Stephano had to know it was better to forfeit if he was 100% sure at the time, but since he didn't, it was probably a combination of him still being on the fence, and EG trying to convince him that he should give Code S another shot. If he was on the fence, I can see how going back to his home country and celebrating his birthday there had a big influence on his choice. It's a big, concentrated dose of "oh right, this is all the great stuff I'm missing out on."
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On March 28 2013 01:18 Prime Directive wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 01:13 Juggernaut477 wrote:On March 28 2013 00:46 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 28 2013 00:36 GunSec wrote:
he said on his latest stream that his next tournament was dreamhack so he is going to miss GSL code s 100 %, he has forfeited his spot for sure. Give the spot to Sortof or Scarlett! Hell no, I hope GOM won't give spots to foreigners anymore. This. I'm sick of charity seeds being given out to foreigners that go home after a month or two. Let the Koreans that actually deserve the spot have it. Except for Scarlett please
Scarlet already refused one and is going to try the qualifiers instead.
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I don't see how you can blame a person for not wanting to move to a foreign country where he doesn't know the language or have any friends. I would also like if he played in the GSL, but I think some people here are overreacting...
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On March 28 2013 01:13 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 00:56 StarStruck wrote:On March 28 2013 00:48 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 00:41 StarStruck wrote:On March 28 2013 00:34 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 00:22 DtorR wrote:
Is there more money involved playing on international tournaments? Even though playing in GSL Code S is an honour but I feel that to win it is not worth the effort. The competition in the international level is a little easier than in Korea. Not only that, but Stephano was having some real problems in Korea. English is his third language and the only way he could communicate with Koreans. That had to be the most frustrating experience in the world and very stressful. Even simply stuff like ordering food or taking a cab must have been a nightmare. That combined with the training and apparent lack of support they were getting before Coach Park joined, I am not surprised he is taking a break of Korea. I don’t think this has much to do with the difficulty of code S, but living in Korea as a whole was not for him and had a really negative effect on him. Lack of support? I don't know what you guys are talking about. Stephano's English is good. You have no privacy. You're around the rest of the boys all the time. They have management in place to address him. Now I can see player's being stubborn when it comes to coaches trying to get them to do what they want them to do. He had a coach there already. Coach Park isn't supposed to be some kind of savior as you guys make him out to be. The guy will help when it comes to bringing new talent in. Lots of us knew he was no longer in Korea and heck, some might think it's because the next round hasn't officially started plus the special tournament where he isn't readily available for selection makes it a no wonder. You should listen to the interview on the Pulse this week with Alex Garfield. He flat out says he did not have enough support for players in the EG-TL Lab and their coaching was not sufficient. He goes farther to say they are taking steps to provide better support for players in both NA and Korea. The third language issue is a thing as well, since all Koreans don’t speak or understand perfect English. These are the kind of issues that people don’t take into account when they send their players off to other countries. It is not rocket science to say “I am sending this player off to another country with a wildly different language and culture. I wonder if adjusting that change will have a negative effect on their practice and play?” Rather not because I take everything that guy says with a grain of salt and considering how many ridiculous podcasts are out there. You only have so much time for everything. That's what he believes and he only checks in from time to time. Trot is proven. I'm sorry you guys don't feel that way yet with EG but this guy has a ton of experience. Why the heck you think they brought him in the first place? lol The support they need comes down to more personnel. More sparring partners. Good luck with North America. Unless you relocate them all to a centralized location that's just throwing away money. Have one operation and pick where you want it. It isn't rocket science. You have to identify whether or not that player can adapt beforehand and considering Stephano has always had a lax and "I don't know how much longer I'm going to play before Med School attitude" you're taking a pretty big risk. If I were Alex I would have taken that risk too because the kid got talent. End of story. Starstruck, I get what you are saying and I agree that everything should be taking with a grain of salt. But I still think you should check it out, because I think it is worth your time and you can sort the BS from the real stuff. Garfield is very canded about the state of things in Korean and his mistakes with the team. And he doesn't blame anyone other than himself. Also, Mr. Bitter doesn't give Garfield a lot of breaks when it comes to the interview, either. I am with you on that training in NA is a bad idea and will not help players inprove quickly. However, the current way teams are training their players in Korea isn't much better. You can't just take a player that was winning some events, drop them in Korean with a computer, a bed, food and point them in the direction of the GOM studio. I know there is more going on that than, but teams need to think of sending their players to Korea like taking and Korean player and dropping them in New York. There needs to be a plan.
Fair enough. I'll check it out a bit later.
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EPT
