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[KeSPA] Proleague R4 Test Maps - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
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pookums
Profile Joined December 2010
151 Posts
March 18 2013 15:55 GMT
#181
Fighting Spirit gives me a lot of hope for the future of SC2. Kespa mapmakers have this ability to brute force maps into the competitive scene. This is a step toward FRB maps becoming the norm which I think is the best chance SC2 has at becoming a better game.
S_SienZ
Profile Joined September 2011
1878 Posts
March 18 2013 15:56 GMT
#182
Kespa Fighting Spirit looking to be the best map ever.
algue
Profile Joined July 2011
France1436 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 16:00:09
March 18 2013 15:57 GMT
#183
On March 19 2013 00:36 Destructicon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2013 00:07 Fragile51 wrote:
On March 18 2013 23:58 algue wrote:
On March 18 2013 23:26 andrewlt wrote:
On March 18 2013 16:45 Dodgin wrote:
Kespa really isn't afraid to pull out the insane maps huh.


Yup. That's what made the BW scene so interesting for so long. Many of the BW vets really didn't care too much about balance on new maps, knowing that the worst ones will be taken out in a few months. Disrupting the metagame often gives the game a breath of fresh air.

The SC2 scene, on the other hand, is just way too obsessed with balance. People take the pitchforks out and march against a 51-49 imbalance.


Reminder that when antiga shipyard and taldarim altar have been in the map pool for more than 1 year along with many other shitty and imbalanced map, worrying about the balance of a map is legit. In Sc2 the map pool rotation is slow as fuck and if a map suck you will have to live with it for at least 6 months :/


To be fair that's more a problem with tournaments than it is with maps.


That's more a problem with Blizzard and tournaments being to stubborn to rotate maps in and out, at least the GSL and Proleague do a decent job, if everyone followed their example we wouldn't be having this discussion now.


Speaking of GSL they haven't announced their map pool yet. I hope their will do an important amount of changes because the last one was pretty bad (icarus ftw).

Also map pool related : Blizzard said a while ago that they were going to work hard to keep the map pool decent on the ladder, any news of this ?


Edit :
On March 19 2013 00:55 pookums wrote:
Fighting Spirit gives me a lot of hope for the future of SC2. Kespa mapmakers have this ability to brute force maps into the competitive scene. This is a step toward FRB maps becoming the norm which I think is the best chance SC2 has at becoming a better game.


It could also be a step backward if it turns out to be horrible for the game ^^
rly ?
necrimanci
Profile Joined March 2011
70 Posts
March 18 2013 16:07 GMT
#184
for kespa showing amazing/fun/crazy games is more important than balance

which is why it rocks
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
March 18 2013 16:10 GMT
#185
On March 19 2013 00:48 LighT. wrote:
O.o I want match point and sniper ridge to become a sc2 map. :<
but woo fS! This current map pool + planet s/bifrost = oh gAwd. I want them to take out arkanoid. Unless they like the idea of having a conpletely different playstyle and metagame just for that map.

Was match point supposed to be the map daybreak is based off of or was it a different map? I thought I remembered reading that when the map first came out
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
Wala.Revolution
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
7584 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 16:22:03
March 18 2013 16:11 GMT
#186
I'll translate the link, it has presumably the mapmakers intentions on the maps.

EDIT: Unless someone else already started. Please pm or say in thread.
Stuck.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 16:15:45
March 18 2013 16:13 GMT
#187
On March 19 2013 00:48 thezanursic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2013 22:50 DarkLordOlli wrote:
It's known that gold minerals give a big advantage to zerg and terran while not favoring protoss much? Give a map only gold minerals.
>_> seriously, most of these Kespa maps are beyond silly from a balance perspective. Like, you will never in a million years see a protoss get sent out on Fighting Spirit (to macro) or take a third on Sanctuary. Colosseum seems to be the only somewhat reasonable map.

But hey, standard play has never been what PL is about. Hence why I don't take PL results all that seriously right now.

i like how you assume that the gold bases are the only factor. I am pretty sure that you can make all gold maps work if the terrain is used correctly.


It's got nothing to do with terrain whatsoever. Zerg and terran are more mineral heavy in overall gameplay, that's all there is to it. Protoss needs super gas heavy units to win a game whereas zerg and terran have a great mineral dump in marines (which T always wants anyway) and zerglings (which, with gold bases, are essentially free). You'll almost never see a protoss starved for minerals but they will be starved for gas. That's why gold bases favor zerg and terran more than they do protoss.
I'm not a heavy anti fan of gold bases on maps where they're hard to defend but an all gold map can never ever ever be balanced. But that's not what it's aiming for, it's aiming to be something new and offer new strategies and gameplay.

I'm just looking forward to zerg figuring out how much faster they can 6pool (and how many more lings they can produce) with their fancy gold main bases >_>

Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
emanresU
Profile Joined November 2012
Germany393 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 16:19:45
March 18 2013 16:19 GMT
#188
When will SPL continue?
There is nothing more cool than being proud of the things you love. -Sean "Day[9]" Plott
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50625 Posts
March 18 2013 16:22 GMT
#189
On March 19 2013 01:19 emanresU wrote:
When will SPL continue?


probably first weekend of april.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
March 18 2013 16:22 GMT
#190
On March 19 2013 00:57 algue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2013 00:36 Destructicon wrote:
On March 19 2013 00:07 Fragile51 wrote:
On March 18 2013 23:58 algue wrote:
On March 18 2013 23:26 andrewlt wrote:
On March 18 2013 16:45 Dodgin wrote:
Kespa really isn't afraid to pull out the insane maps huh.


Yup. That's what made the BW scene so interesting for so long. Many of the BW vets really didn't care too much about balance on new maps, knowing that the worst ones will be taken out in a few months. Disrupting the metagame often gives the game a breath of fresh air.

The SC2 scene, on the other hand, is just way too obsessed with balance. People take the pitchforks out and march against a 51-49 imbalance.


Reminder that when antiga shipyard and taldarim altar have been in the map pool for more than 1 year along with many other shitty and imbalanced map, worrying about the balance of a map is legit. In Sc2 the map pool rotation is slow as fuck and if a map suck you will have to live with it for at least 6 months :/


To be fair that's more a problem with tournaments than it is with maps.


That's more a problem with Blizzard and tournaments being to stubborn to rotate maps in and out, at least the GSL and Proleague do a decent job, if everyone followed their example we wouldn't be having this discussion now.


Speaking of GSL they haven't announced their map pool yet. I hope their will do an important amount of changes because the last one was pretty bad (icarus ftw).

Also map pool related : Blizzard said a while ago that they were going to work hard to keep the map pool decent on the ladder, any news of this ?


Edit :
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2013 00:55 pookums wrote:
Fighting Spirit gives me a lot of hope for the future of SC2. Kespa mapmakers have this ability to brute force maps into the competitive scene. This is a step toward FRB maps becoming the norm which I think is the best chance SC2 has at becoming a better game.


It could also be a step backward if it turns out to be horrible for the game ^^


I doubt Blizzard can be anywhere near as fast as Kespa. A Proleague round finishes after every team has played every other team once. Kespa has shown that it is willing to change some maps after every round. Some very problematic maps have even been removed mid-round.
Gfire
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1699 Posts
March 18 2013 16:26 GMT
#191
On March 19 2013 01:22 andrewlt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2013 00:57 algue wrote:
On March 19 2013 00:36 Destructicon wrote:
On March 19 2013 00:07 Fragile51 wrote:
On March 18 2013 23:58 algue wrote:
On March 18 2013 23:26 andrewlt wrote:
On March 18 2013 16:45 Dodgin wrote:
Kespa really isn't afraid to pull out the insane maps huh.


Yup. That's what made the BW scene so interesting for so long. Many of the BW vets really didn't care too much about balance on new maps, knowing that the worst ones will be taken out in a few months. Disrupting the metagame often gives the game a breath of fresh air.

The SC2 scene, on the other hand, is just way too obsessed with balance. People take the pitchforks out and march against a 51-49 imbalance.


Reminder that when antiga shipyard and taldarim altar have been in the map pool for more than 1 year along with many other shitty and imbalanced map, worrying about the balance of a map is legit. In Sc2 the map pool rotation is slow as fuck and if a map suck you will have to live with it for at least 6 months :/


To be fair that's more a problem with tournaments than it is with maps.


That's more a problem with Blizzard and tournaments being to stubborn to rotate maps in and out, at least the GSL and Proleague do a decent job, if everyone followed their example we wouldn't be having this discussion now.


Speaking of GSL they haven't announced their map pool yet. I hope their will do an important amount of changes because the last one was pretty bad (icarus ftw).

Also map pool related : Blizzard said a while ago that they were going to work hard to keep the map pool decent on the ladder, any news of this ?


Edit :
On March 19 2013 00:55 pookums wrote:
Fighting Spirit gives me a lot of hope for the future of SC2. Kespa mapmakers have this ability to brute force maps into the competitive scene. This is a step toward FRB maps becoming the norm which I think is the best chance SC2 has at becoming a better game.


It could also be a step backward if it turns out to be horrible for the game ^^


I doubt Blizzard can be anywhere near as fast as Kespa. A Proleague round finishes after every team has played every other team once. Kespa has shown that it is willing to change some maps after every round. Some very problematic maps have even been removed mid-round.

Speaking of which, we need a Demon's Forest port one of these days.
all's fair in love and melodies
robih
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria1086 Posts
March 18 2013 16:28 GMT
#192
very interesting maps
except for artemis which looks quite stupid
Ancamdrew
Profile Joined June 2012
United States14 Posts
March 18 2013 16:28 GMT
#193
I feel like fighting spirit definitely favors zerg. This is because probes and scvs just take time, not larvae, and by the looks of it (correct me if I'm wrong, there is fewer patches to saturate which means zerg can spend that extra larvae on units.
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
March 18 2013 16:29 GMT
#194
I've made an album of the high res pics of these maps:

http://imgur.com/a/isjJy
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16118 Posts
March 18 2013 16:29 GMT
#195
WTF did they do to fighting spirit?

This could get interesting.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
Split.
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland234 Posts
March 18 2013 16:29 GMT
#196
More Kespa craziness... But this time I won't say anything until I see some actual play on these maps, who knows what will happen (especially on fighting spirit)
purakushi
Profile Joined August 2012
United States3301 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 16:41:24
March 18 2013 16:31 GMT
#197
Yep. That sort of resource setup has been tried already. The way they have it set up now, it highly favours Zerg. You can just mass expand. The only thing that is funny is that it is not even close. Zerg should win 90%+ of the time.

I did message the author to tell him about that (and how the economy would be even worse than what we have in SC2 now). I hope he could understand what I said well enough.

Is there anyone good enough at Korean and English who would be willing to translate a short letter explaining FRB? We can send it to KESPA/GOM.
T P Z sagi
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
March 18 2013 16:32 GMT
#198
On March 19 2013 01:28 Ancamdrew wrote:
I feel like fighting spirit definitely favors zerg. This is because probes and scvs just take time, not larvae, and by the looks of it (correct me if I'm wrong, there is fewer patches to saturate which means zerg can spend that extra larvae on units.

I think it slightly favors Zerg, but what is most important is that it just completely shafts Protoss :D
Eskiya23
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands105 Posts
March 18 2013 16:34 GMT
#199
Fighting Spirit ! Id love to see some good balanced maps from BroodWar make a comeback in SC2.
Wisdom. Judgement. Execution. Stream: twitch.tv/eskiyasc2 Twitter: @EskiyaSC
emanresU
Profile Joined November 2012
Germany393 Posts
March 18 2013 16:38 GMT
#200
When will SPL actually continue?
There is nothing more cool than being proud of the things you love. -Sean "Day[9]" Plott
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