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On March 15 2013 17:35 KoRStarvid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 17:33 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:28 dabom88 wrote:On March 15 2013 17:25 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:23 dabom88 wrote:On March 15 2013 17:17 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:00 bittman wrote:On March 15 2013 16:57 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 16:47 Sakray wrote:
And for all the machine/idra/incontrol haters, if I follow your logic, EG has to release their entire sc2 team. Haters gonna hate anyway. That's not our logic, it's what they want us to believe is their logic. I don't hate idra, machine or incontrol. But PuMa has had better results in a month than these three had over their entire SC2 career. EG wants entertainers, not players. Yep. A lot of teams do. Why do you think casters even get sponsorships? Because they're about to win WCG in their spare time? No, and a lawyer won't win WCG either. I judge players (not casters) based on their playing, and in the statement in the OP, EG pretends they do to. Which they clearly don't. They do judge based on results. It's just that results isn't the only thing they judge them on. I don't know how many more times I can write this, but I don't read about any other things in their statements. They're saying it's all about the results, and it's not. And I don't know how many more times I can write this, but as a business, what they care about the most is the bottom line. So the main question is always going to be is EG getting a return on their investment on a player. And results isn't the only way to get a return on your investment. It's just one of the ways, and they do take results into consideration. They tried to renegotiate their contract. All they asked was for a pay cut from on their top-paid players who was underperforming. A salary to better reflect his performance. He said no, and so they decided not to renew their contract with him. That's just business. You don't just pay a player the same amount for not bringing the same level of return on the investment you made on him as before. So you still don't understand that all I'm talking about is the discrepancy between their statement and the reality? And you didn't care to read my reply to you? Some things you just don't say in official press. This is business, dude, not kindergarten.
Tell that to all the people who applaud EG for their honesty in this thread 
On March 15 2013 17:35 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 17:33 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:28 dabom88 wrote:On March 15 2013 17:25 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:23 dabom88 wrote:On March 15 2013 17:17 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:00 bittman wrote:On March 15 2013 16:57 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 16:47 Sakray wrote:
And for all the machine/idra/incontrol haters, if I follow your logic, EG has to release their entire sc2 team. Haters gonna hate anyway. That's not our logic, it's what they want us to believe is their logic. I don't hate idra, machine or incontrol. But PuMa has had better results in a month than these three had over their entire SC2 career. EG wants entertainers, not players. Yep. A lot of teams do. Why do you think casters even get sponsorships? Because they're about to win WCG in their spare time? No, and a lawyer won't win WCG either. I judge players (not casters) based on their playing, and in the statement in the OP, EG pretends they do to. Which they clearly don't. They do judge based on results. It's just that results isn't the only thing they judge them on. I don't know how many more times I can write this, but I don't read about any other things in their statements. They're saying it's all about the results, and it's not. And I don't know how many more times I can write this, but as a business, what they care about the most is the bottom line. So the main question is always going to be is EG getting a return on their investment on a player. And results isn't the only way to get a return on your investment. It's just one of the ways, and they do take results into consideration. They tried to renegotiate their contract. All they asked was for a pay cut from on their top-paid players who was underperforming. A salary to better reflect his performance. He said no, and so they decided not to renew their contract with him. That's just business. You don't just pay a player the same amount for not bringing the same level of return on the investment you made on him as before. So you still don't understand that all I'm talking about is the discrepancy between their statement and the reality? Please enlighten us on what you feel is a "discrepancy". Give backed-up arguments, not general statements.
I have already done that, go read my posts and the ones I replied to.
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So they kick out one of their only players who's actually gotten results to his name.
Seems like idra/huk/incontrol would be first on the list really, but hey at least they're making good decisions by removing players who aren't performing.
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On March 15 2013 17:35 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 17:30 KoRStarvid wrote:
They're not gonna write in a press release that Puma didn't have a selling personality, that would be incredibly unprofessional to attack a former employee's person. The reason they keep Idra, Incontrol and the likes is that they are valuable personalities, extremely good PR, and good for team morale. Puma wasn't. They don't need to write that in a press realease. Grow up. They don't need to to anything, and I don't need to either. But when someone writes bullshit, I'm free to talk about it, and no amount of money they make changes that.
It wasn't bullshit. He was hired because they expected him to produce results. He did for a while, but doesn't anylonger. We're not trying to stop you from speaking. We're trying to make you understand that this isn't some kind of idealistic union, but a business. You need to get a job and grow up.
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On March 15 2013 17:39 KoRStarvid wrote:
You need to get a job and grow up.
That's literally the best way to admit your arguments are wrong. Pathetic.
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On March 15 2013 17:38 Headnoob wrote:
So they kick out one of their only players who's actually gotten results to his name.
Seems like idra/huk/incontrol would be first on the list really, but hey at least they're making good decisions by removing players who aren't performing.
Do you actually think you're making an intelligent point? Because there's absolutely nothing intelligent about this post.
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On March 15 2013 17:40 blackone wrote:That's literally the best way to admit you're arguments are wrong. Pathetic.
It's the best way to admit that i exist in a little thing called reality, where you can't base your decisions just on "being nice". They told the truth in their statement. They value all their employees differently, and Pumas value was based on the results he put out in playing. Get real.
EDIT: And if you can't understand that, then this discussion ends here.
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On March 15 2013 17:40 blackone wrote:That's literally the best way to admit you're arguments are wrong. Pathetic.
I have absolutely no clue what you're pretending to prove here. If you want to pretend that EG doesn't care about results, by all means, continue. Just stop trying to convince other people that you actually make sense.
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On March 15 2013 17:43 KoRStarvid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 17:40 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:39 KoRStarvid wrote:
You need to get a job and grow up. That's literally the best way to admit you're arguments are wrong. Pathetic. It's the best way to admit that i exist in a little thing called reality, where you can't base your decisions just on "being nice".
Nope, that's not what personal attacks are. You're not a business here, you don`t make any money off of attacking people on teamliquid.
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I think it is a bold move. It shows the other players on the team that no one is protected and that results are demanded or you will be shown the door. I like the move, pity it had to be Puma though, I reckon the guy has improvement in him.
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The only sad part about this is that all of EG is doing poorly in proleague, and yet Puma is the one to go? : / I guess money makes the world go round
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On March 15 2013 17:37 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 17:35 KoRStarvid wrote:On March 15 2013 17:33 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:28 dabom88 wrote:On March 15 2013 17:25 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:23 dabom88 wrote:On March 15 2013 17:17 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:00 bittman wrote:On March 15 2013 16:57 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 16:47 Sakray wrote:
And for all the machine/idra/incontrol haters, if I follow your logic, EG has to release their entire sc2 team. Haters gonna hate anyway. That's not our logic, it's what they want us to believe is their logic. I don't hate idra, machine or incontrol. But PuMa has had better results in a month than these three had over their entire SC2 career. EG wants entertainers, not players. Yep. A lot of teams do. Why do you think casters even get sponsorships? Because they're about to win WCG in their spare time? No, and a lawyer won't win WCG either. I judge players (not casters) based on their playing, and in the statement in the OP, EG pretends they do to. Which they clearly don't. They do judge based on results. It's just that results isn't the only thing they judge them on. I don't know how many more times I can write this, but I don't read about any other things in their statements. They're saying it's all about the results, and it's not. And I don't know how many more times I can write this, but as a business, what they care about the most is the bottom line. So the main question is always going to be is EG getting a return on their investment on a player. And results isn't the only way to get a return on your investment. It's just one of the ways, and they do take results into consideration. They tried to renegotiate their contract. All they asked was for a pay cut from on their top-paid players who was underperforming. A salary to better reflect his performance. He said no, and so they decided not to renew their contract with him. That's just business. You don't just pay a player the same amount for not bringing the same level of return on the investment you made on him as before. So you still don't understand that all I'm talking about is the discrepancy between their statement and the reality? And you didn't care to read my reply to you? Some things you just don't say in official press. This is business, dude, not kindergarten. Tell that to all the people who applaud EG for their honesty in this thread Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 17:35 dabom88 wrote:On March 15 2013 17:33 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:28 dabom88 wrote:On March 15 2013 17:25 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:23 dabom88 wrote:On March 15 2013 17:17 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:00 bittman wrote:On March 15 2013 16:57 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 16:47 Sakray wrote:
And for all the machine/idra/incontrol haters, if I follow your logic, EG has to release their entire sc2 team. Haters gonna hate anyway. That's not our logic, it's what they want us to believe is their logic. I don't hate idra, machine or incontrol. But PuMa has had better results in a month than these three had over their entire SC2 career. EG wants entertainers, not players. Yep. A lot of teams do. Why do you think casters even get sponsorships? Because they're about to win WCG in their spare time? No, and a lawyer won't win WCG either. I judge players (not casters) based on their playing, and in the statement in the OP, EG pretends they do to. Which they clearly don't. They do judge based on results. It's just that results isn't the only thing they judge them on. I don't know how many more times I can write this, but I don't read about any other things in their statements. They're saying it's all about the results, and it's not. And I don't know how many more times I can write this, but as a business, what they care about the most is the bottom line. So the main question is always going to be is EG getting a return on their investment on a player. And results isn't the only way to get a return on your investment. It's just one of the ways, and they do take results into consideration. They tried to renegotiate their contract. All they asked was for a pay cut from on their top-paid players who was underperforming. A salary to better reflect his performance. He said no, and so they decided not to renew their contract with him. That's just business. You don't just pay a player the same amount for not bringing the same level of return on the investment you made on him as before. So you still don't understand that all I'm talking about is the discrepancy between their statement and the reality? Please enlighten us on what you feel is a "discrepancy". Give backed-up arguments, not general statements. I have already done that, go read my posts and the ones I replied to.
Dude, most companies or sports teams would never admit they were unsatisfied with a player's performance, or admit they were overpaid.
The fact that EG admitted to both in a press release is surprisingly honest.
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On March 15 2013 17:45 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 17:43 KoRStarvid wrote:On March 15 2013 17:40 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:39 KoRStarvid wrote:
You need to get a job and grow up. That's literally the best way to admit you're arguments are wrong. Pathetic. It's the best way to admit that i exist in a little thing called reality, where you can't base your decisions just on "being nice". Nope, that's not what personal attacks are. You're not a business here, you don`t make any money off of attacking people on teamliquid.
I'm sorry if you took that as personal agression, but you genuinely acted like a person who has no idea what business is like, probably because you have not been working. If you feel offended, then I'm sorry. My arguments in the discussion still stands though.
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On March 15 2013 17:37 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 17:35 KoRStarvid wrote:On March 15 2013 17:33 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:28 dabom88 wrote:On March 15 2013 17:25 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:23 dabom88 wrote:On March 15 2013 17:17 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:00 bittman wrote:On March 15 2013 16:57 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 16:47 Sakray wrote:
And for all the machine/idra/incontrol haters, if I follow your logic, EG has to release their entire sc2 team. Haters gonna hate anyway. That's not our logic, it's what they want us to believe is their logic. I don't hate idra, machine or incontrol. But PuMa has had better results in a month than these three had over their entire SC2 career. EG wants entertainers, not players. Yep. A lot of teams do. Why do you think casters even get sponsorships? Because they're about to win WCG in their spare time? No, and a lawyer won't win WCG either. I judge players (not casters) based on their playing, and in the statement in the OP, EG pretends they do to. Which they clearly don't. They do judge based on results. It's just that results isn't the only thing they judge them on. I don't know how many more times I can write this, but I don't read about any other things in their statements. They're saying it's all about the results, and it's not. And I don't know how many more times I can write this, but as a business, what they care about the most is the bottom line. So the main question is always going to be is EG getting a return on their investment on a player. And results isn't the only way to get a return on your investment. It's just one of the ways, and they do take results into consideration. They tried to renegotiate their contract. All they asked was for a pay cut from on their top-paid players who was underperforming. A salary to better reflect his performance. He said no, and so they decided not to renew their contract with him. That's just business. You don't just pay a player the same amount for not bringing the same level of return on the investment you made on him as before. So you still don't understand that all I'm talking about is the discrepancy between their statement and the reality? And you didn't care to read my reply to you? Some things you just don't say in official press. This is business, dude, not kindergarten. Tell that to all the people who applaud EG for their honesty in this thread Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 17:35 dabom88 wrote:On March 15 2013 17:33 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:28 dabom88 wrote:On March 15 2013 17:25 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:23 dabom88 wrote:On March 15 2013 17:17 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 17:00 bittman wrote:On March 15 2013 16:57 blackone wrote:On March 15 2013 16:47 Sakray wrote:
And for all the machine/idra/incontrol haters, if I follow your logic, EG has to release their entire sc2 team. Haters gonna hate anyway. That's not our logic, it's what they want us to believe is their logic. I don't hate idra, machine or incontrol. But PuMa has had better results in a month than these three had over their entire SC2 career. EG wants entertainers, not players. Yep. A lot of teams do. Why do you think casters even get sponsorships? Because they're about to win WCG in their spare time? No, and a lawyer won't win WCG either. I judge players (not casters) based on their playing, and in the statement in the OP, EG pretends they do to. Which they clearly don't. They do judge based on results. It's just that results isn't the only thing they judge them on. I don't know how many more times I can write this, but I don't read about any other things in their statements. They're saying it's all about the results, and it's not. And I don't know how many more times I can write this, but as a business, what they care about the most is the bottom line. So the main question is always going to be is EG getting a return on their investment on a player. And results isn't the only way to get a return on your investment. It's just one of the ways, and they do take results into consideration. They tried to renegotiate their contract. All they asked was for a pay cut from on their top-paid players who was underperforming. A salary to better reflect his performance. He said no, and so they decided not to renew their contract with him. That's just business. You don't just pay a player the same amount for not bringing the same level of return on the investment you made on him as before. So you still don't understand that all I'm talking about is the discrepancy between their statement and the reality? Please enlighten us on what you feel is a "discrepancy". Give backed-up arguments, not general statements. I have already done that, go read my posts and the ones I replied to.
Your statements have only come down to "They don't care about results". People have refuted that statement, and you refuse to address any of those refutations besides repeating your argument of "They don't care about results".
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On March 15 2013 17:43 WolfintheSheep wrote:
I have absolutely no clue what you're pretending to prove here. If you want to pretend that EG doesn't care about results, by all means, continue. Just stop trying to convince other people that you actually make sense.
I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm voicing my discontent about an EG decision that is financially sound. I'm not invested in EG, so my opinion isn't based on their finances. Then a swarm of wannabe CEOs attacked me for having the wrong opinion and I tried to answer, which seems to have been a horrible mistake.
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It'd be funny if PuMa goes on a tournament spree and starts winning again because its not WoL anymore.
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On March 15 2013 17:48 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 17:43 WolfintheSheep wrote:
I have absolutely no clue what you're pretending to prove here. If you want to pretend that EG doesn't care about results, by all means, continue. Just stop trying to convince other people that you actually make sense. I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm voicing my discontent about an EG decision that is financially sound. I'm not invested in EG, so my opinion isn't based on their finances. Then a bajillion of wannabe CEOs attacked me for having the wrong opinion and I tried to answer, which seems to have been a horrible mistake.
Then repeat after me:
"I understand the business decision, but I'm sad to see Puma let go."
If you want to troll around by ranting about EG wanting entertainers, do it in the hundreds of other threads it's been rehashed.
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EG has been successful because they're walking billboards for their sponsors and they do this better than anyone else in the industry. Winning tournaments provides you with a huge amount of visibility obviously, but it is not the only way. What is unfortunate is that for a lot of reasons, some of them cultural, if not simply due to linguistic barriers, with notable exceptions like MC, Koreans' have mostly only been visible because of their wins. Just look at the recent Polt interview. Its a common reaction for people to go "ITS A KOREAN SPEAKING ENGLISH OOO MMM GGG EEE!".
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Chris Loranger @LorangerChris
Goodbye puma I guess ? Wish I heard about it sooner TT.
Not informing the players seems pretty backhanded to me.
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EPT
