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Oktyabr
Singapore2234 Posts
On March 15 2013 18:27 Technique wrote: No cause he ain't Korean. In sc2 only Koreans are held to a high standard. You're probably held to a high standard if you're difficult to market and if you're drawing really high pay. | ||
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
On March 15 2013 18:27 Technique wrote: No cause he ain't Korean. In sc2 only Koreans are held to a high standard. Posts like this are the reason why there needs to be a mod note on top of this topic. Once again, every progamer is judged on whether they're bringing EG (or any e-sports team) more money than they're paying them. It's called Return on Investment (ROI). This return is based off EG Brand Exposure and EG Sponsorship exposure, which can be judged in numerous ways, including tournament results. They didn't think Puma was bringing in enough of a return, so they tried to negotiate a lower salary to reflect what he was bringing in for them. Puma said no, so they let him go. They didn't just kick him out for not producing results like people who post stuff like this seem to think. | ||
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Kuni
Austria765 Posts
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
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Monsen
Germany2548 Posts
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JazVM
Germany1196 Posts
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
On March 15 2013 18:34 Kuni wrote: Long overdue. You either show results apropriate to your salary or you have a high enough advertisement value. If you have neither, then you are off the team. That's the way it works and if you were a 111-hit-wonder, you're not worth it over a longer period of time. Well, it's not just that simple. More accurately in this situation, "If you have neither, then you either accept a lower salary that more accurately reflects your results/advertisement value, or you walk away from their offer and are off the team" | ||
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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Technique
Netherlands1542 Posts
On March 15 2013 18:33 dabom88 wrote: Posts like this are the reason why there needs to be a mod note on top of this topic. Once again, every progamer is judged on whether they're bringing EG (or any e-sports team) more money than they're paying them. It's called Return on Investment (ROI). This return is based off EG Brand Exposure and EG Sponsorship exposure, which can be judged in numerous ways, including tournament results. They didn't think Puma was bringing in enough of a return, so they tried to negotiate a lower salary to reflect what he was bringing in for them. Puma said no, so they let him go. They didn't just kick him out for not producing results like people who post stuff like this seem to think. He's still #12 in the tournament earnings, only other EG member higher is Stephano who played in way more tournaments. | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
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Glioburd
France1911 Posts
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Kuni
Austria765 Posts
On March 15 2013 18:39 dabom88 wrote: Well, it's not just that simple. More accurately in this situation, "If you have neither, then you either accept a lower salary that more accurately reflects your results/advertisement value, or you walk away from their offer and are off the team" It's too easy to say "Well he was offered a lower salary, but he refused and walked away". If you look at his results, then that new offer probably wouldn't have been sustainable at all for him and his life. You can force someone away by offering him a pathetic salary. We don't know what the new offer was and how exactly they negotiated, but it still is something to be kept in mind, when talking about it. | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3575 Posts
On March 15 2013 18:21 MtlGuitarist97 wrote: HuK isn't in Code S. He got to Code S by getting a lucky up and down group and cheesing most of the games. He followed this up by falling straight out of Code S, and then straight out of Code S. HuK has the potential, but I don't know what his practice is like and he does gimmicky strategies that aren't very solid. But he did get to Code S. How many players manage that? If it was easy to just "cheese" through U&D why don't more foreigners manage it? | ||
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Soda-88
Croatia476 Posts
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
On March 15 2013 18:48 Technique wrote: He's still #12 in the tournament earnings, only other EG member higher is Stephano who played in way more tournaments. What he's achieved in the past matters less than the results he's achieving now when negotiating a new contract, which reflect the state Puma is in in the present and what they can expect of him in future. He hasn't placed high in tournaments since March of 2012. He hasn't been producing many results in general. He can't speak English, he never streamed much, barely tweeted, was not part of any promotional team activities, and in all this time did not really make any visible effort to become better at speaking English like other fellow Koreans on foreign teams (MC, Polt, Crank, HerO, JYP, GanZi just to name a few) have. As a result, the only thing he had to offer in brand/sponsorship exposure was game and tournament results. And when he hasn't been winning important games, such as in Korea's most prestigious team league, or placing high in tournaments in the past year, he wasn't generating enough brand and sponsor exposure to justify how much they were paying him. So, and I can't believe I'm repeating this again, they offered him a lower salary to better reflect his current state and the return on the investment they expected from him over course of the new contract period. He refused, and since they expected to lose money on their investment in Puma with his current salary, they had to let him go. | ||
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Protoss-Bah
74 Posts
Is their performance top notch? PuMa at least won a whole lot of tournaments for EG in the past. And to mods, this isn't a flame/troll whatever. This is sincere criticism as I think we all should be allowed to speak our minds. It's just that I don't think EG is that top team as they would like to claim they are. PuMa was their strongest player in my eyes, who won lots of tournaments. It's just that EG's decision is very inconsistent as they have worse performing players on their team. Like, I have never understood why people buy the EG marketing to make it seem like they are the worlds best team. Just look at IM, they absolutely dominate everything. 8 GSL titles. Any tournament an IM player is, you know he will be in the top 3. Look at IEM CeBit, semi finals all IM players. Look at the IEM before that. SlayerS was a damn strong team back in the days. Startale and MVP being great ones as well. Not to mention all those new, scary-as-hell Pro League teams. TBH, I even think Liquids roster is better, look at HerO and Taeja for example. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On March 15 2013 19:11 Protoss-Bah wrote: What about Demuslim, Machine, JYP, Suppy, iNcontrol, etc? Is their performance top notch? PuMa at least won a whole lot of tournaments for EG in the past. And to mods, this isn't a flame/troll whatever. It's just that I don't think EG is that top team as they would like to claim they are. PuMa was their strongest player in my eyes, who won lots of tournaments. It's just that EG's decision is very inconsistent as they have worse performing players on their team. They tried to renegotiate his salary and in the end couldn't reach an agreement. The players who you named have different contracts and some of them have value to the them outside their actual tournament performances | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
On March 15 2013 19:00 Zealos wrote: But he did get to Code S. How many players manage that? If it was easy to just "cheese" through U&D why don't more foreigners manage it? Foreigners that got seeded in the UnDs usually made it through. Unknown Underdog factor mostly I would assume. Really sad for Puma, but who knows what he has planned now. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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