people frequently underestimate how close in skill the pros really are. true for sc2 proleague and true for bw proleague -> osl/msl (or wcg korea too).

also bo1 is more volatile and map preparation/nerves; some players need a game or two to really get in their groove. sc2 has some more predominant racial imbalances as well.

but this was true to bw as well, where people go in streaks/slumps or sometimes do well in 1 but fail at the other.

mongmong

Korea (South)1389 Posts

January 16 2013 14:21 GMT

#42

You should note that Kespa teams and its players prioritize pl over any other individual leagues. Kespa players
receive incentives from winning a match (As far as I know STX players get like $500 per win) on the top of their
salary. Thats why they work their asses off to prepare for proleague.

raga4ka

Bulgaria5679 Posts

January 16 2013 14:30 GMT

#43

It's all about the preparation . There is no huge skill difference between Proleague and GSL . Normally the player who has prepared better on the given map will win .

Code S isn't really the best measurement of skill . You can't tell if a player is doing well or is in a slump until he actually plays his games . If everyone started from the offline preliminaries i would bet that the whole Code - S would look completely different . I think some players get lucky + practise solely for the maps to get in to Code - S in that one series on that one day they play . After that they get crushed in the RO32 in Code S by an equally prepared superior player . After the RO32 you can see who the real Code S players are .

Proleague can tell you more how a player is doing overall , because he will play at least twice every week ( if he is any good) , and after a certain period of time , for example the end of round 3 before HOTS starts you can get an overall picture of who is exactly were in the rankings in WOL playing in Proleague .

There are always players who would be good at one format and be bad at the other . For example Sea was the epitome of this. Dominated Proleague for years , but in individual leagues he made Ro8 once or so in BW .

I think the biggest difference though are the maps if they were the same there would be no excuse why a player did bad , because they both practise equally on the same settings .

Adreme

United States5574 Posts

January 16 2013 14:34 GMT

#44

This isnt a unusual trend for KeSPA. There have been plenty of players who do great in proleague (Bisu) but used to fail in the OSL (Bisu). DRG I remember struggled for a bit to get into code S despite being a monster in the GSTL but of course he eventually broke thru and won a GSL.

Marou

Germany1371 Posts

January 16 2013 14:36 GMT

#45

Proleague is only bo1 and your sample size is super tiny small and you can't draw any conclusion out of it yet. Wait a year or two to gather more data.

TAMinator

Australia2706 Posts

January 16 2013 14:39 GMT

#46

Proleague players practice a map for a very long time. Code S players cant focus on both Code S opponents and KESPA maps, so they're bound to be less prepared for their games.

edlover420

349 Posts

January 16 2013 14:47 GMT

#47

Because even on as high level as this usual chance to win is pretty random 60/40 at best for code S players.

psychotics

United States184 Posts

January 16 2013 14:48 GMT

#48

heres the simple explaination (well more detailed then "different format") the kespa players have been playing in the proleague format for years and have plently of practice at player sniping and map sniping in the Bo1 format, now the codeS players have been playing mostly individual tournaments for the past 2+ years. add in the fact that the difference between a codeS player and a codeA player (hell even some codeB players) is minimal at best (sometimes its just luck of the map/matchup draw in the up and downs) just my thoughts

starfinder

Japan167 Posts

January 16 2013 14:50 GMT

#49

On January 16 2013 23:39 TAMinator wrote:
Proleague players practice a map for a very long time. Code S players cant focus on both Code S opponents and KESPA maps, so they're bound to be less prepared for their games.

But it's not a title comparing proleague players with ESF players.Just asking why some proleague players who got a code S badge in their spare time,harder to carry out works what Boss paid them for:win in proleague

raga4ka

Bulgaria5679 Posts

January 16 2013 14:56 GMT

#50

On January 16 2013 23:50 starfinder wrote:

Show nested quote +

Maybe they are sneaking extra time for individual leagues instead of Proleague , no real other explanation . Makes sence why they are doing worse in PL and better in individual leagues .

McBrungus

United States265 Posts

January 16 2013 14:57 GMT

#51

Let's not forget, there is soooooooooooooooo muccccccccccccchhhhh morrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre data out there on the guys who have been in the GSL for a long time. For $20/month, all of the KeSPA teams can get an extensive catalog of almost every professional game the ESF players have played, and lots of the players being used in Proleague have almost no exposure outside of those weird BO1 games that get played a couple of times per week.

BlazeFury01

United States1460 Posts

January 16 2013 15:02 GMT

#52

On January 16 2013 23:57 McBrungus wrote:
Let's not forget, there is soooooooooooooooo muccccccccccccchhhhh morrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre data out there on the guys who have been in the GSL for a long time. For $20/month, all of the KeSPA teams can get an extensive catalog of almost every professional game the ESF players have played, and lots of the players being used in Proleague have almost no exposure outside of those weird BO1 games that get played a couple of times per week.

Lol and for free you can get every pro league game since the players started lol

NicksonReyes

Philippines4431 Posts

January 16 2013 15:06 GMT

#53

Here we go again comparing team league and individual league performances... won't go anywhere other than "they're different" :/.

raga4ka

Bulgaria5679 Posts

January 16 2013 15:07 GMT

#54

On January 17 2013 00:02 BlazeFury01 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Lol and for free you can get every pro league game since the players started lol

Not to mention that you don't need to be a scientist to figure out that Flash would 14 CC or that JulyZerg would all - in . They have been doing this for years in BW as well . There is enough sample size for both cases to get an overall feel for a player .

ElusoryX

Singapore2047 Posts

January 16 2013 15:16 GMT

#55

KeSPA teams study REALLY hard, so hard that they don't need better mechanics to win Mvp or whoever that's mechanically much stronger.

Thieving Magpie

United States6752 Posts

January 16 2013 15:18 GMT

#56

Kespa can't even win an MLG, just saying

Oh? Did I take things out of context? Compared apples to oranges?

Two different tournaments, two different results. MVP and Nestea never did that well in GSTL and they only really played during their early reign--they don't do that we'll in team league. JYP? He barely holds on to the middling sections of a tournament, never the favorite. Put him in team league and suddenly he's a consistent work horse.

Nerves are much less of an issue unless you're at the ace match.

Toxi78

966 Posts

January 16 2013 15:20 GMT

#57

On January 17 2013 00:16 ElusoryX wrote:
KeSPA teams study REALLY hard, so hard that they don't need better mechanics to win Mvp or whoever that's mechanically much stronger.

i am not a bw fanboy at all, but this post is quite stupid.

Proseat

Germany5113 Posts

January 16 2013 15:24 GMT

#58

It's Bo1, instead of Bo3. It's a team league. There are different maps. There are snipers.

starfinder

Japan167 Posts

January 16 2013 15:28 GMT

#59

On January 17 2013 00:18 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Kespa can't even win an MLG, just saying

They are all apples. All of them. No one comparing kespa players and ESF players but you.This is a thread about PROLEAGUE PLAYERS with/without code S badges.

Noizhende

Austria328 Posts

January 16 2013 15:35 GMT

#60

Bo1s and some arguably wacky maps make proleague not comparable with gsl. Also a teamleague sometimes works a bit different than solo leagues (players as snipers for certain ace players, or races)