show me a game of sc2 with a lot of small battles, sc2 is all about big endgame 200/200 battle -> end
4 gate was cool tool to test players micro, now its all about BO
maybe someone will develop "4 gate" for 2 bases?

You cleary haven't watched many SC2 if you think all games are decided by 200/200 battle. The most recent is Taeja vs Nerchio in dreamhack.

Astro-Penguin

554 Posts

November 25 2012 06:21 GMT

#84

PvP is going to fix it self eventually once all the pros realize that fast expand can defend anything and everything assuming you make no mistakes, after that we'll start seeing more macro oriented plays and the meta game should develop.

crbox

Canada1180 Posts

November 25 2012 06:24 GMT

#85

PvP is so fun to watch for me, you really have to be careful on how to engage. Army movement / positioning is so important in lategame pvp

Wildmoon

Thailand4189 Posts

November 25 2012 06:25 GMT

#86

I am enjoying variety of strategies in PvP a lot these day so no, I don't want 4gate era back.

GhandiEAGLE

United States20754 Posts

November 25 2012 06:27 GMT

#87

I love phoenix usage. I am glad that they can be used more than before.

Sbrubbles

Brazil5776 Posts

November 25 2012 06:29 GMT

#88

High level PvP isn't about coin fliping build orders. It happens every few games, but I'd say about 1 out of 10 games (pure guess).

Care to explain what "gamesmanship of rocks paper scissor" means?

CecilSunkure

United States2829 Posts

November 25 2012 06:35 GMT

#89

I liked PvP more back then.

Infernal_dream

United States2359 Posts

November 25 2012 06:37 GMT

#90

On November 25 2012 15:21 Astro-Penguin wrote:
PvP is going to fix it self eventually once all the pros realize that fast expand can defend anything and everything assuming you make no mistakes, after that we'll start seeing more macro oriented plays and the meta game should develop.

Except it cant, and never will. Blink stalkers will always rape fast expands. Always. I'm tired of "macro oriented plays" that leads to boring ass 15 minutes of nothing but observer killing. 4 gate was 4 minutes of waiting and 15 minutes of incredible micro to see who won. Granted sometimes someone fucked up in the first 30 seconds and lost but it's better to lose that way then because you tried to go stargate and he went dts and you lose. That's boring as fuck. I'd rather watch micro over watching someone have a better strat. How's watching pvz going with those infestor broodlord "superior strategy". It's turned into protoss having to 2 base every game before teh zerg gets infestors and BL's.

KingAce

United States471 Posts

November 25 2012 06:49 GMT

#91

The current PvP is too coinflippy. Whenever I see a PvP...first I am like Fuck! Because you never who's going to come out on top. As a protoss fan it's frustrating when a strong protoss is taken out in a PvP.

It seems for protoss to win a tournament they have to survive PvPs. Even when it's clear who the strong overall player is, in PvP that doesn't count for much.

NotSorry

United States6722 Posts

November 25 2012 06:51 GMT

#92

I prefer the 4gate days, much more entertaining to watch and at least it seemed like the better player won a lot more often.

HolyExlxF

United States256 Posts

November 25 2012 06:52 GMT

#93

Nope. 4gate sucks.

crbox

Canada1180 Posts

November 25 2012 06:55 GMT

#94

I don't understand how fourgate is entertaining. There was almost no strategy whatsoever, and like 30secs of micro rofl. And how is pulling a weaken stalker impressive micro, I mean come on seeing blink observer on cloud kingdom vs a guy that expanded and went robo is always fucking amazing to watch no?

Doomwish

438 Posts

November 25 2012 06:57 GMT

#95

why do people make threads like these without polls? seems obvious to include them in the OP.

Azzur

Australia6260 Posts

November 25 2012 06:57 GMT

#96

You must be kidding - when watching 4-gate vs 4-gate, I felt like clawing my eyes out. It was the worst matchup I've ever seen in my life.

Fueled

United States1610 Posts

November 25 2012 07:08 GMT

#97

PvP is a lot better now, but its still a boring match up

Skiblet

South Africa206 Posts

November 25 2012 07:20 GMT

#98

Just because the player with superior micro wins it does not in any way shape or form make the matchup better. Its like for example, the MMA fighter with bigger muscles winning every time. This is a strategy game, not a micro mini-game.

thesums

Taiwan257 Posts

November 25 2012 08:12 GMT

#99

While I understand that mico of PvP is intense, it is not as exaggerated as the broadcasters say. When you were saying MC would have a high win rate in PvP, if you watched every match of MC's back in the day you will see that MC is winning not because of micro; it is because other players are trying something different, something greedy. MC is always the one on the offensive, and have more units (and less probes), so he ended up winning. I would say that he won because of his aggressiveness because in all honesty, the micro of the Korean protosses are very similar at the top.

For me TvT has always been the best, even against non-mirror matchups. You cannot say who is OP and complain when it is mirror XD. I only hate it when both players go banshee cloaked because it is so messy.

red4ce

United States7313 Posts

November 25 2012 09:23 GMT

#100

Comparing 4gate to the current PvP is like comparing a car accident to a traffic jam. If the former is 'better' it's only because, although painful, it's shorter and has a morbid can't-look-away appeal, whereas the latter simply bores you to death. That being said if PvP is to ever to become a good or at least watchable matchup, escaping the 4gate era was a necessity even if it causes problems in the short term.