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Was PvP better with the 4gate? - Page 6
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StatixEx
United Kingdom779 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Fragile51
Netherlands15767 Posts
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NotoriousBig
Germany301 Posts
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Vandrad
Germany951 Posts
On November 25 2012 08:36 HolydaKing wrote: Absolutely no... Besides Colossi wars i think that PvP nowadays is getting more and more entertaining. I love the phoenix wars which somehow start to appear in professional games lately. I agree. I really like watching blink Stalkers and Phoenix. | ||
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sunglasseson
United States145 Posts
pvp i think everyone agrees isnt fun to watch as 4 gate. i enjoy playing it but thats subjective as to the better player winning? its IMPOSSIBLE with current meta to have the better pvp player win every time or even most times. (obviously this doesnt account for individual skill but the counter tree when applied to 2 equal players results in the right tech winning) | ||
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FuRong
New Zealand3089 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
defensive 4gate > offensive 4gate > Tech-Build > defensive 4gate won. Even more the notion that the player with the better micro is the better play is plainly wrong, SC2 is an RTS. | ||
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Astro-Penguin
554 Posts
On November 25 2012 15:37 Infernal_dream wrote: Except it cant, and never will. Blink stalkers will always rape fast expands. Always. I'm tired of "macro oriented plays" that leads to boring ass 15 minutes of nothing but observer killing. 4 gate was 4 minutes of waiting and 15 minutes of incredible micro to see who won. Granted sometimes someone fucked up in the first 30 seconds and lost but it's better to lose that way then because you tried to go stargate and he went dts and you lose. That's boring as fuck. I'd rather watch micro over watching someone have a better strat. How's watching pvz going with those infestor broodlord "superior strategy". It's turned into protoss having to 2 base every game before teh zerg gets infestors and BL's. Blink only works on maps like Cloud Kingdom or Antiga where you can abuse him with harass, (meaning you cant fast expand on said maps). Trust me when I say on a map like Ohana or Daybreak you are absolutely not going to get broken with any sort of Blink build given the fact that you will be able to not only utilize your Robo but also the extra production you can get by having the warp gate upgrade finish seconds after units pop out of your gateway giving you a quick influx of units. Basically if your given a ramp like Ohana you can stall with forcefield pretty easy until his attack is just simply to weak to attack up, and on a map like Daybreak with long distances just utilize 3 Stalker openings to ensure no pylons pop up slowing his warp ins down by forcing his army to babysit it until it finishes, this in return will also force him to warp in at home and walk all the way across a long map. Blink all ins are usually on a timer, they have to kill someone before 2 Immortals pop. If you want I can go into further detail on how to hold other things. Don't knock it until you try it, the builds are solid people just don't seem to understand it yet as pros tend to not have the opportunity to be able to refine and experiment with such things if they want to win tournaments. | ||
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sunglasseson
United States145 Posts
On November 25 2012 19:20 Big J wrote: The better player did not win, the player with the better end of the triangle defensive 4gate > offensive 4gate > Tech-Build > defensive 4gate won. Even more the notion that the player with the better micro is the better play is plainly wrong, SC2 is an RTS. defensive 4 gate is supposed to win if you dont warp in offensively with 2 pylons at bottom of ramp right away. both players should be warping in the EXACT same unit amounts at the same time. there literally is no dif between a def vs offensive 4 gate unless it is outside the first warp in lets say the world is even when refering def vs off 4gating. at least its a 50 50 chance rather then 33.3 percent chance (the better player will win 4 gate v 4 gate most times) go look at gsl win rates in matchups during pvp 4 gate era. | ||
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
On November 25 2012 08:27 Arco wrote: I think PvP right now is actually one of the more skill based matchups. Sure 4gate vs 4gate lead to the better micro player winning a lot, but that doesn't mean he's the overall better player. I think games need to have a chance to enter the midgame to determine who is the victor. In HotS PvP is a lot more interesting. There is a lot more Gateway usage and harassment due to the "death" of the Colossus in the matchup. Tempests are easily accessible and have pretty much made mass Colossi suicide. I think we'll see a lot more Gateway based armies supported by Immortals, Archons, and Tempests than the boring "war of the worlds" that we see in WoL PvP today. Haven't played much HOTS pvp but why is colossus dead? | ||
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ETisME
12266 Posts
On November 25 2012 08:27 dAPhREAk wrote: correct. short games are boring. prefer longer games with lots of small micro battles over one micro battle that decides game in first 10 mins. to be fair, in pvp, every time your opening is screwed, you aren't dead, you are just really behind for a long time and hope for the best engagement to win. that's my opinion anyway. | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
Should the mirror match still have a certain volatility? Yes. Should this volatility focus on gateway units or tech units? Tech units. Are colossus stagnating the tech paths in PvP and forcing first-to-max / war of the worlds? Yes. Are colossus actually the problem? Yes. | ||
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blug
Australia623 Posts
Just because MC isn't winning, doesn't mean it is broken, it could just mean that MC is good in some areas while other Protoss players are better in other areas. Some players like to rely on micro, some people prefer to focus on macro, some people prefer to focus on metagaming, or sometimes people like to combine them all. I've seen a few PVP upsets, but I feel like their were so many more upsets during the 4 gate days, usually involving a lesser player running into his opponents base with a 4 gate while his opponent is a sitting duck somewhere else on the map. | ||
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Nachtwind
Germany1130 Posts
On November 25 2012 09:00 GinDo wrote: 4 Gate PvP Fun to Watch: YES!!! Fun to Play: Hell No -_- Ling Bling ZvZ Fun to Watch: YES!!! Fun to Plat: No Stressful as Hell. The issue is that there is a difference from what people want to play. And what they want to watch. There is only the issue that people think other people should like what they like | ||
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goiflin
Canada1218 Posts
On November 25 2012 19:18 FuRong wrote: I guess it was more exciting, almost like BW ZvZ. For me, that describes it well. I enjoy watching 4gate vs 4gate because of the importance of execution. I don't mind that it was nerfed, because I can appreciate other people not enjoying micro battles, but I still liked it a lot better than the current meta in PvP. | ||
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MyFirstProbe
Netherlands294 Posts
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00Visor
4337 Posts
On November 25 2012 18:42 NotoriousBig wrote: No, it´s sooo incredible interresting to watch, with all the Mindgames involved, actually PvP turned into my favourite matchup I agree. I love the action, micro, early aggresion. Combined with Mindgames and different builds (contrary to ZvZ). More interesting than seeing 2 players macro up in other matchups. | ||
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LOLItsRyann
England551 Posts
Don't get me wrong, ling bane as well as 4gate is fun to watch, but not every. Single. Game. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9341 Posts
And 4gate was a hopelessly volatile match up. One little micro mistkae --> lost game. | ||
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
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