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TheSwamp
United States1497 Posts
On November 25 2012 08:21 WaZ wrote: in the 4gate days pvp took alot more skill and alot less luck sadly That's why almost every pro said it was purely luck-based back then. You probably know better though. | ||
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KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
On November 26 2012 00:38 Antares_ wrote: Right now, also a better player always wins. Having an ability to choose a right build for right map against particular opponent, is a big part of skill. but when its basicly becomes a coinflip it doesn't. | ||
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fighter2_40
United States420 Posts
Also, as a master protoss player, it is of my personal belief that PvP now is way better. | ||
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Asmodeusx
286 Posts
There are no hard counter strategies, unless you don't scout and don't build robo for 10 minutes or something stupid like that. Try understanding the matchup first before trying to change it. | ||
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willyallthewei
United States265 Posts
On November 26 2012 02:33 Asmodeusx wrote: None of those high win rates happened because of 4 gate. There are no hard counter strategies, unless you don't scout and don't build robo for 10 minutes or something stupid like that. Try understanding the matchup first before trying to change it. Oh, so if you gate robo gate --> expand, and i go 4 gate phoenix, that is not a hard counter? Okay. You are welcomed to play me anytime. | ||
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zEnVy
United States446 Posts
On November 25 2012 08:27 dAPhREAk wrote: correct. short games are boring. prefer longer games with lots of small micro battles over one micro battle that decides game in first 10 mins. Have you seen a 20 minute PvP? It's just a giant colossi vs colossi a move and whoever has more colossi wins the game in one giant 20 second fight with almost no micro. | ||
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
On November 25 2012 08:27 dAPhREAk wrote: correct. short games are boring. prefer longer games with lots of small micro battles over one micro battle that decides game in first 10 mins. I don't know what you are watching but PvP usually ends with 1 battle, regardless of the length of the match. Stalker/zealot micro over collosus wars any day IMO | ||
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To3-Knee
Canada100 Posts
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Jimmysc2
United States18 Posts
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ZjiublingZ
United Arab Emirates439 Posts
On November 26 2012 13:04 TeAL_ wrote: There's two parts of Starcraft, one is called macro and one is called micro, also the longer the game lasts the higher the chance of the better player winning will be. That is all. There is also strategy. This game would be a lot more boring if the player with the better micro/macro always won. | ||
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Carbonthief
United States289 Posts
No, pvp isn't a pure micro fest anymore, that's not a bad thing though. There's a good deal more strategy in the matchup now. It makes the matchup way more interesting to watch and play, and gives strategic players ways to outthink an opponent who may outclass them in mechanics, and that is a completely legitimate way to win. | ||
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TeslasPigeon
464 Posts
On November 26 2012 13:42 Carbonthief wrote: I'm just not seeing these hard counters people talk about when discussing pvp. The most notable I can think of, was Seed vs MC GSL finals. If I recall correctly, MC lost every game due to build orders (hard countering). I believe the actual tournament (game play) was under 90 minutes. It was ridiculously short and pathetic moment showcasing the severe lack of quality SC2 can have at moments. | ||
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Ender2701
United States581 Posts
The time of blink, robo, and some expanding builds was the most fun imo. Oh and BW PvP was way better than any Sc2 PvP so far T_T | ||
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JackReacher
United States197 Posts
As far as build order rock paper scissors, it's not necessarily like that in PvP; the Robo/Stargate/Twilight counter triangle is more of a soft-counter relationship. Blink against Robo expand is very map-dependent and there are many ways it can play out with no clear "winner" where you could say "he has an inherent advantage because Robo counters Twilight" or vice versa; the same goes for Phoenix vs. Blink openers; it's definitely not a huge advantage for the blink player, Phoenixes can definitely work and get out a faster expansion. The only real super hard-counter (tech-wise) is going for an unsafe Stargate opener and just flat out never getting detection and losing to a fast DT build, but most people going Stargate get a Robo down either before their 3rd Gateway or shortly after, because one of the advantage of Phoenix openings is keeping his gas probe count in check, expanding quicker and possibly ending up with higher Colossus count often off of double Robo. You can't simply say "Robo > Twilight > Stargate > Robo"; it's nowhere near as simple as that. | ||
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Leetley
1796 Posts
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GreyKnight
United States4720 Posts
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On November 26 2012 14:07 TeslasPigeon wrote: The most notable I can think of, was Seed vs MC GSL finals. If I recall correctly, MC lost every game due to build orders (hard countering). I believe the actual tournament (game play) was under 90 minutes. It was ridiculously short and pathetic moment showcasing the severe lack of quality SC2 can have at moments. Oh god I remember that. I was hyped up for a proper showcase of how much PvP had improved from 4-gate all day, every day. Finally putting to rest the perception it was literally all about 4-gates and mass colossus. Instead we got that...mess... Regardless, no. Its better now. Especially with stuff like Phoenix builds (♥ Phoenix). | ||
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InVerno
258 Posts
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