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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On November 21 2012 20:29 SKYFISH_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 20:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On November 21 2012 20:25 SKYFISH_ wrote:On November 21 2012 20:17 DarkLordOlli wrote:On November 21 2012 20:15 Kitaen wrote:
or just nerf queens again and prevent all that shit from happening? FFS, queens have NOTHING to do with the problems of BL/infestor. Zerg just gets there a little easier now. lol sure, maybe in PvZ in ZvT the queen buff gave Zergs a free maphack and guaranteed 3 bases with little to no options for T to prevent that So you wouldn't be bitching about BL/infestor if queens had less range? I somehow can't believe that. have you seen anyone bitch about BL/infestor before the ''15 minute no attack'' patch? so yeah, better believe it
Guess what, I have. I do agree that it's harder for zerg to get to a BL/infestor army but once they have it, that army is still really really really strong against terran unit compositions.
The queen range patch wasn't that bad for overall gameplay imo, terran just needs a way to exploit zerg's greediness and that's what they're missing right now imo. If ravens were psionic along with this change for example, they'd be viable earlier in the game, making a transition to a terran air army way more fluent and easier.
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On November 21 2012 20:06 Zerg.Zilla wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 19:57 Godwrath wrote:On November 21 2012 19:44 ConGee wrote:On November 21 2012 17:49 Discarder wrote:On November 21 2012 17:28 Grend wrote:
Imo: Psionic units should still take damage/be revealed, it should only negate the movement impairment. Also in my humble opinion Warp Prisms should not be psionic. This psionic resistance against fungal is actually a very brilliant idea! Protoss will find the incentive to invest gas in various psionic units like DTs to pick off infestors. This actually gives more diversity for the game rather than toss spending all the gas for colossus and stalkers and their respective upgrades. I think blizzard should really go with this. But i changed my stance on the projectile fungal growth. I think that may be too much. I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but may I ask zerg players in this thread if you really use your infestors to defend the against warp prisms or you just want to whine about something in balance? Because I think there are plenty more ways to deal with the warp prism harass besides fungal growth. Personally, I prefer my infestors in the front army rather than having them in my bases because its much easier to have a small army group of lings and corruptors to counter the warp harass and have them back in time for the frontal assault. I also like to have more static defenses in my crucial bases so I think it hardly matters.. However, the resistance of sentry against fungal may be questionable because of any 3 base timing attack with immortal sentry can be impossible to beat without good fungals. We shall see. Anyone masters players out there who already tested this? How would you stop a speed warp prism that can fly by a spore after taking only two shots, that's faster than mutas or corruptors, and can easily outmaneuver queens. Mutas are faster than warp prisms. He's talking about Speed upgraded prism...it has the same speed as mutas.3,75
No, its 3.375 for Warp Prisms with speed.
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Russian Federation59 Posts
I love that infestors will no longer detect DTs. Now we can try pheonix/DT builds in PvZ.
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On November 21 2012 20:18 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 19:56 AbideWithMe wrote:On November 21 2012 19:49 Enzymatic wrote:On November 21 2012 19:47 Arco wrote:
Warp Prism carrying High Templar around will be nice against Infestors. You won't have to worry about losing such a large investment to chain Fungal Growths, and you can protect your delicate Templar from the Zerg army.
I can't tell you how many times I've seen this attempted by pros, but Fungal Growth pretty much immediately shuts it down. You will instantly lose any HT you drop out of a warp prism to broodlings/roaches/speedlings in a split second. Not really seeing this as a realistic response to Infestors late-game.. MAYBE in the mid-game.. But Protoss doesn't typically have HT out in the mid-game quite yet. It's quite obvious how angry you are about zerg already but downplaying this absurd nerf to fungal is just kidding yourself. The change won't come this way but as Protoss you should be actually glad if it did because it is enormous. On November 21 2012 19:53 JustPassingBy wrote:
Yes, finally something happening on the balance front.
Even though I do think that the psionic immunity to fungal is redundant and won't solve anything, I'm open to the outcome.
(it might make it harder for the infestor to approach the protoss army and neural the mothership though) WON'T CHANGE ANYTHING?????? Are you actually listening to yourself? A third of the protoss units would be immune to a spell that seems absolutely necessary for zerg to stay alive against Protoss before Broodlords on the one hand and massively overpowered in a late game situation with broodlords on the other hand. Well, I think that the big difference is that zerg won't be able to fungal warp prisms anymore and that high templars are now stronger against the infestor. The rest doesn't really matter that much. Sentries are traditionally not present in the lategame, as are dark templars. Archons are not affected by fungals anymore, but should other units be affected by it, its movement will still remain quite disrupted due to its size. Well, I guess you cannot fungal archons to prevent them to jump into the toilet, however that wasn't really used to begin with.
With no imminent threat of sentries being fungaled to death instantly protoss can delay their 2 base 3 base pushes for quite a signifcant amount to make them hit even harder.
Warp prism harass will be much stronger because a lot of zergs tend to rely on infestor defense against them.
Zealot Archon is already quite strong against roach ling infestor if the zerg is not able to get of money fungals against clumped up zealots. With minimal spreading Zealot Archon High templar with double upgrades will absolutely roll any ling roach infestor army as long as the zerg doesn't massively turtle behind spines which would significantly cut into his economy at the point where such a three base push would hit.
A late game battle would also drastically change. Now HTs would actually be able to get in somewhat of a position to feedback infestors and even the mothership would benefit greatly from the change. I've seen it way too often that a motership gets fungaled while lacking behind the protoss army and is then immidiately shot down by corruptors which is quite ridiculous.
Archons would finally be able to get close to broodlords and has anyone ever seen how a battle between +3 archons and normally +1 broodlords looks when the archons are in range? It's a fuckin massacre. Broodlords just fall out of the skies.
The questions is what a zerg would do in such situation. Build even more spine crawlers? If the zerg is forced to stay completely passive uncontested warp prism harassment will tear him apart.
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On November 21 2012 20:28 Vapaach wrote:
I think this is very nice, I wouldn't mind warp prism not being psionic though. Seems a bit strong that warp prism couldn't be stopped with fungal.
One could argue that its stupid that Fungal can chain root and kill air units at all in the first place though and the fact that its even possible.. Because it shouldn't be.
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On November 21 2012 20:32 FinalForm wrote:
remember this is the same company that wanted to give queens 50 starting energy, they don't know what they're doing
Pretty much this xD...also how come one unit (Banshee) can be detected with fungal and (DT) another clocked unit can't...
Plus why is Warp Prism considered a psionic unit?!It's a fucking transport building (or ship) and the medivac (plus it heals units)is not?
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I love how they first make it clear that they dont think there is a large problem here and there arent any significant balance issues. "We will try some new stuff just to be nice" or what?
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On November 21 2012 20:27 Warchariot wrote:
I know Dustin Browder thinks Zerg will solve the immortal/sentry all in, but he does make things more difficult,by making them immune to fungal, it was a great way to slow the protoss push because the units clump up.
Would be nice if it revealed the units and stopped them moving, but just didn't do any damage to psionic units
Id rather want them to take damage but not rooting them in place.
That way the "fungal growth" will just reveal them and take some damage, but not making it possible to chain fungal them 
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On November 21 2012 20:32 FinalForm wrote:
remember this is the same company that wanted to give queens 50 starting energy, they don't know what they're doing
Well that was just ridiculous.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
Hoping to see some weird Raven HSM play early game, I wonder if it will actually make a difference.
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Thats like not how you fix the infestor, but nice try blizzard.
Really loving the raven change though, hopefully we'll see less "but dude you like a techlab on your starport" and more hsm killing everything now.
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omg i love the raven buff
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On November 21 2012 20:37 Zerg.Zilla wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 20:32 FinalForm wrote:
remember this is the same company that wanted to give queens 50 starting energy, they don't know what they're doing Pretty much this xD...also how come one unit (Banshee) can be detected with fungal and (DT) another clocked unit can't... Plus why is Warp Prism considered a psionic unit?!It's a fucking transport building (or ship) and the medivac (plus it heals units)is not?
Because Blizzard has no idea what they are doing and are largely inconsistent in lore and classification. Before patch 1.4.3 "psionic" didn't even have any use or significance at all. It was a pure "flavor" attribute.
With going for something that radical they have put a lot of problems on their "lore designers". How can you possibly coherently explain that something like a warp prism is not affected by fungal while a colosses and CARRIERS!!!! are.
Even more stupid is the following: Why can't a queen be fungaled but all other zerg units aside from infestors can? What makes a queen immune to fungal. I dare anybody to find a coherent explanation for this.
But it's all good. As I said this is a pure troll change and won't go live at all. I'm actually happy that they just put it on some balance map and didn't ruin hots beta with it even further.
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Still think that fungal should reveal invis units, but dont affect them.. otherwise I think it will be a feedback/snipe overseers game...
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On November 21 2012 20:43 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 20:32 FinalForm wrote:
remember this is the same company that wanted to give queens 50 starting energy, they don't know what they're doing Well that was just ridiculous.
I feel reverting 5 range queen and giving queens 40 starting energy for a fast first tumor would actually be more interesting and balance than the queendralisk as it is now.
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On November 21 2012 20:45 AbideWithMe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 20:37 Zerg.Zilla wrote:On November 21 2012 20:32 FinalForm wrote:
remember this is the same company that wanted to give queens 50 starting energy, they don't know what they're doing Pretty much this xD...also how come one unit (Banshee) can be detected with fungal and (DT) another clocked unit can't... Plus why is Warp Prism considered a psionic unit?!It's a fucking transport building (or ship) and the medivac (plus it heals units)is not? Because Blizzard has no idea what they are doing and are largely inconsistent in lore and classification. Before patch 1.4.3 "psionic" didn't even have any use or significance at all. It was a pure "flavor" attribute. With going for something that radical they have put a lot of problems on their "lore designers". How can you possibly coherently explain that something like a warp prism is not affected by fungal while a colosses and CARRIERS!!!! are. Even more stupid is the following: Why can't a queen be fungaled but all other zerg units aside from infestors can? What makes a queen immune to fungal. I dare anybody to find a coherent explanation for this. But it's all good. As I said this is a pure troll change and won't go live at all. I'm actually happy that they just put it on some balance map and didn't ruin hots beta with it even further.
Well, Queen being immune makes sense to me, she being the 'Queen' of the race and all.
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On November 21 2012 20:36 Enzymatic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 20:28 Vapaach wrote:
I think this is very nice, I wouldn't mind warp prism not being psionic though. Seems a bit strong that warp prism couldn't be stopped with fungal. One could argue that its stupid that Fungal can chain root and kill air units at all in the first place though and the fact that its even possible.. Because it shouldn't be.
its made that zerg can skip AA units in early and midgame, while protoss has to struggle vs air units all game long 
tbh, the best solution would be: make the hydralisk somehow viable as an AA unit, while nerfing corrupters (at least against non massive) and infestors (infested terran dps has to go down, e.g)
it would add more depth in midgame zerg armies (like in zvz) and prevents that boring hive rushes with 20 spines/spores
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On November 21 2012 11:31 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 11:26 Plansix wrote:On November 21 2012 11:21 avilo wrote:
Raven change does nothing. Blizzard is completely out of the loop or is too stubborn to really listen about why ravens suck. Sure, you don't research it now! Great! Absolutely nothing changes in the amount of time it takes for a raven to accumulate hunter seeker energy.
Nothing also changes in terms of unit interactions/unit compositions. There was never a problem before "oh i don't have seeker missile research!" The problem is the time it takes to accumulate energy to make the raven pay itself off.
Quite disappointing. I know a lot of uninformed people here though will eat this up like candy and think something got better when it has not. One day I am going to compile all of avilo's quotes when it comes to balance changes and line them up. What would we learn? All balance changes have done nothing or hurt terran. At least he is consistent. It's nice to attack someone instead of their valid points. Look at the change objectively. It reduces a 150/150 cost in terms of infrastructure/tech to be set up to get ravens. What does it do to the unit interactions and how does it affect the amount of time it takes to accumulate seeker missile energy to make the raven a more reliable unit? Nothing. Everything stays the same related to ravens in TvZ you just now save 150/150 and still die in the same way. If you think my points are not valid please elaborate.
I agree with avilo here, removing the need to upgrade seeker really doesn't change anything in the game itself except a 150/150 cost in the mid/late game(which is negligible), you still would need to wait for them to accumulate energy.
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On November 21 2012 20:45 AbideWithMe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 20:37 Zerg.Zilla wrote:On November 21 2012 20:32 FinalForm wrote:
remember this is the same company that wanted to give queens 50 starting energy, they don't know what they're doing Pretty much this xD...also how come one unit (Banshee) can be detected with fungal and (DT) another clocked unit can't... Plus why is Warp Prism considered a psionic unit?!It's a fucking transport building (or ship) and the medivac (plus it heals units)is not? Because Blizzard has no idea what they are doing and are largely inconsistent in lore and classification. Before patch 1.4.3 "psionic" didn't even have any use or significance at all. It was a pure "flavor" attribute. With going for something that radical they have put a lot of problems on their "lore designers". How can you possibly coherently explain that something like a warp prism is not affected by fungal while a colosses and CARRIERS!!!! are. Even more stupid is the following: Why can't a queen be fungaled but all other zerg units aside from infestors can? What makes a queen immune to fungal. I dare anybody to find a coherent explanation for this. But it's all good. As I said this is a pure troll change and won't go live at all. I'm actually happy that they just put it on some balance map and didn't ruin hots beta with it even further.
Do you play alot of RPG games?... you seem the type.
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EPT
