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Call to Action: Balance Testing (2012/11/20) - Page 21

Forum Index > SC2 General
1876 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 94 Next
AbideWithMe
Profile Joined October 2012
207 Posts
November 21 2012 11:02 GMT
#401
On November 21 2012 20:01 FakeDeath wrote:
Silly tosses ask zergs to make mutas just to counter WP in the late game.


Why not just make hydras?! LOL
""I abused a child today" -Stephano" - nmetasch
FakeDeath
Profile Joined January 2011
Malaysia6060 Posts
November 21 2012 11:03 GMT
#402
On November 21 2012 20:02 AbideWithMe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 20:01 FakeDeath wrote:
Silly tosses ask zergs to make mutas just to counter WP in the late game.


Why not just make hydras?! LOL


Everybody knows why. =D

Hydra sucks.
Play your best
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
November 21 2012 11:03 GMT
#403
Wait, if psionic units are immune this will also increase micro which is kind of cool, for example, if a player moves his army forward and a zerg fungals it his psionic units will keep walking...into a line of broodlords! Should mean that protoss (in this case) will have an extra increase of attention required on army control when playing against fungals.

Should be interesting to see how ZvZ plays out with the fungal change as well, no more fungal snatching groups of infestors, also means infestor burrow attacks are even more strong as they are immune to fungal!
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2590 Posts
November 21 2012 11:04 GMT
#404
Am I the only person who had no idea Warp Prisms were psionic? This makes me wonder if Terrans shouldn't be sniping the ubiquitous Warp Prism full of HTs late game PvT, you can kill a WP in 4 shots!
The frumious Bandersnatch
FakeDeath
Profile Joined January 2011
Malaysia6060 Posts
November 21 2012 11:04 GMT
#405
On November 21 2012 20:03 zasg wrote:
Wait, if psionic units are immune this will also increase micro which is kind of cool, for example, if a player moves his army forward and a zerg fungals it his psionic units will keep walking...into a line of broodlords! Should mean that protoss (in this case) will have an extra increase of attention required on army control when playing against fungals.

Should be interesting to see how ZvZ plays out with the fungal change as well, no more fungal snatching groups of infestors, also means infestor burrow attacks are even more strong as they are immune to fungal!


Leenock doing those cute burrow fungalling infestors took skills.

Now zergs won't ever split their infestors in ZvZ.
Play your best
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
November 21 2012 11:05 GMT
#406
On November 21 2012 20:04 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Am I the only person who had no idea Warp Prisms were psionic? This makes me wonder if Terrans shouldn't be sniping the ubiquitous Warp Prism full of HTs late game PvT, you can kill a WP in 4 shots!


You can't because it's not a biological unit!
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Superiorwolf
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States5509 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-21 11:11:24
November 21 2012 11:05 GMT
#407
On November 21 2012 17:09 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 16:44 Whitewing wrote:
On November 21 2012 16:07 FakeDeath wrote:
On November 21 2012 16:03 Whitewing wrote:
On November 21 2012 16:00 BoxingKangaroo wrote:
On November 21 2012 15:59 FakeDeath wrote:
On November 21 2012 15:58 Astro-Penguin wrote:
On November 21 2012 15:54 Tsubbi wrote:
On November 21 2012 15:53 Hall0wed wrote:
On November 21 2012 15:50 Tsubbi wrote:
So after protoss secured 3 of the top 4 spots in blizzard tournament we get a post that basically says:

"hey guys, winrates are eben but almost every protoss unit wont be effected by fungal, have a nice day"

how can they even remotely think that this is a small change? also why wouldnt they compensate for it if they see equal winrates? like removing hydra upgrade or making it scale better with attack upgrades..

the raven change is a good idea though


You're going to need a MUCH Better argument than using the results of ONE tournament, a tournament where the 3 best players BY FAR happened to be Protoss so of course they got top 3. I fail to see how the most skilled players at an event placing the highest shows anything about balance.


well those players dominated the qualifiers as well, top8 in korea had 7 protoss


Go look at the games and find me a match where Protoss wins past 15 minutes, Protoss was simply abusing Immortal Sentry for the most part. (Stopping this push has been largely figured out at this point)

Terran and Protoss are occasionally doing well in tournaments, the recurring theme here is that Zerg almost winning everything and getting consistent finishes no matter what player pool.


Since when has this push been figured out?

It is like the new 1/1/1.



Parting lost one game with it (because of poor sentry control IMO) so everything thinks it's done.


He's lost more than one, Suppy beat him when he did it, he lost to Sniper in GSL with it, and he's the best in the world at it. Frankly, I think if he'd had better zerg opponents in the tournament he'd have lost. TLO has won a number of games against the immortal/sentry all-in using his fairly unique strategy.

I wouldn't say it's figured out yet, but it's getting there quickly.


Suppy blinded countered it.He already expected it and just went straight infestors into building 15 spines or so.
Had Parting just backed off and take a 3rd and transitioned into a 3 base pre-hive timing.
He would have crushed Suppy since Suppy invested a tons of minerals into defense and his drone count is not optimal.

The games against Sniper was one of the rare moments where Parting fucked up his sentry control.
(Usually Parting doesn't miss forcefields).


Suppy didn't blind counter it, he even has said as much in one of the threads here (do a search for superiorwolf and you'll find the posts). He counted the probes at the right timing and knew it was coming: that's not a blind counter, and if parting had pulled back his bad probe count would have left Suppy still ahead.

Nah, he did blind counter it.
What he said:
"What I did is not blind. You can tell if it's a robo expand or a robo sentry immortal all in based on if they stop making probes at 7:45. "
Suppy vs Parting VOD: http://us.battle.net/bwc/en/tournaments/sc2/videos?page=6
He scouts at 7:30 and already is going up to 6 gas with lair before he is able to see any kind of probe count or if probe production stopped. Then, beyond this, Parting is still making probes when his OL scout peeks and and dies. If what Suppy says is true, then what he saw was not an immortal/sentry all in because of this. Despite that fact, he still gets ling speed, all 6 gases, +1 carapace then starts up 10 spines before he even sees the push start to move out (though the 10 spines could be a safe assumption as he did see the robo by that time). He even goes up to 6 gases, lair and evo before he is able to see probe counts or any tech.

Why are people still insisting that I blind countered it -_-;; anyone who watches my stream has seen me do this hundreds of times. See my PM for more information, I am confident that that information should be enough to change your mind, and if not, feel free to ask me questions. I'd prefer people asking me why I thought it was robo/immortal/sentry all-in rather than just *blindly* assuming I was playing blind.
Check out my stream at www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315053 and follow me on Twitter @EGSuppy! :)
Zerg.Zilla
Profile Joined February 2012
Hungary5029 Posts
November 21 2012 11:06 GMT
#408
On November 21 2012 19:57 Godwrath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 19:44 ConGee wrote:
On November 21 2012 17:49 Discarder wrote:
On November 21 2012 17:28 Grend wrote:
Imo: Psionic units should still take damage/be revealed, it should only negate the movement impairment. Also in my humble opinion Warp Prisms should not be psionic.


This psionic resistance against fungal is actually a very brilliant idea! Protoss will find the incentive to invest gas in various psionic units like DTs to pick off infestors. This actually gives more diversity for the game rather than toss spending all the gas for colossus and stalkers and their respective upgrades. I think blizzard should really go with this. But i changed my stance on the projectile fungal growth. I think that may be too much.

I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but may I ask zerg players in this thread if you really use your infestors to defend the against warp prisms or you just want to whine about something in balance? Because I think there are plenty more ways to deal with the warp prism harass besides fungal growth. Personally, I prefer my infestors in the front army rather than having them in my bases because its much easier to have a small army group of lings and corruptors to counter the warp harass and have them back in time for the frontal assault. I also like to have more static defenses in my crucial bases so I think it hardly matters..

However, the resistance of sentry against fungal may be questionable because of any 3 base timing attack with immortal sentry can be impossible to beat without good fungals. We shall see.

Anyone masters players out there who already tested this?






How would you stop a speed warp prism that can fly by a spore after taking only two shots, that's faster than mutas or corruptors, and can easily outmaneuver queens.


Mutas are faster than warp prisms.

He's talking about Speed upgraded prism...it has the same speed as mutas.3,75
(•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) ~Keep calm and inject Larva~
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2590 Posts
November 21 2012 11:07 GMT
#409
On November 21 2012 20:05 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 20:04 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Am I the only person who had no idea Warp Prisms were psionic? This makes me wonder if Terrans shouldn't be sniping the ubiquitous Warp Prism full of HTs late game PvT, you can kill a WP in 4 shots!


You can't because it's not a biological unit!

You are right and I am stupid.
The frumious Bandersnatch
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-21 11:12:17
November 21 2012 11:09 GMT
#410
On November 21 2012 20:07 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 20:05 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On November 21 2012 20:04 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Am I the only person who had no idea Warp Prisms were psionic? This makes me wonder if Terrans shouldn't be sniping the ubiquitous Warp Prism full of HTs late game PvT, you can kill a WP in 4 shots!


You can't because it's not a biological unit!

You are right and I am stupid.


Now I feel bad about myself for making you feel stupid

Also!!! You will all crumble before my double forge +3 attack/+2 SHIELDS 3 base all in with HTs and archons. And it won't even be all in because I almost got the tech required to take on BL/infestor. I'm in such a good mood now.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
S_SienZ
Profile Joined September 2011
1878 Posts
November 21 2012 11:09 GMT
#411
Why are Warp Prisms psionic? Makes 0 sense imo
malaan
Profile Joined September 2010
365 Posts
November 21 2012 11:11 GMT
#412
just went 15-0 using warp prism / sentry / immortal all in on this patch against zerg

I dont think this patch is going to work... this all in becomes x10 stronger than it already was
azzih
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany98 Posts
November 21 2012 11:13 GMT
#413
Infestors may be too strong atm. But if i cant fg invisible units anymore i always need to bring overseers with me and they can be sniped quite easy. So Ghosts will be much more powerful after this change.

Also i dont think nerfing infestor is the way to go. Infesor is a great unit for comebacks, and in my opinion SC2 lacks options to come back from a disadvantage. Normally if your behind you can get only more behind if your opponent doesnt make a major mistake. I think the other races and the game in general needs more ways to start comebacks, this will make the game more intresting to play and particulary more interesting to watch.
Germany
S_SienZ
Profile Joined September 2011
1878 Posts
November 21 2012 11:13 GMT
#414
On November 21 2012 20:11 malaan wrote:
just went 15-0 using warp prism / sentry / immortal all in on this patch against zerg

I dont think this patch is going to work... this all in becomes x10 stronger than it already was

Blizzard conspiracy to cement legacy status of their BWC champion?
EvilChuck
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany71 Posts
November 21 2012 11:13 GMT
#415
Anyone tried the Immortal All-In PartinG is using? Wouldn't it be kinda unfair if you cant fungal sentries?
The SAW is the LAW
Superiorwolf
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States5509 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-21 11:16:15
November 21 2012 11:14 GMT
#416
Also I am quite shocked that the fungal nerf is getting more thumbs ups than thumbs downs, it's quite possibly the most ill-conceived idea ever. Blizzard should really consult pros rather than random internal people for ideas. Sure there might be bias but I'm sure you'd get a lot better ideas than this really crappy one. The seeker missile change, however, I think is a great and very smart idea. Props to them for that and I hope that one goes through.
Check out my stream at www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315053 and follow me on Twitter @EGSuppy! :)
Kitaen
Profile Joined June 2011
Austria466 Posts
November 21 2012 11:15 GMT
#417
or just nerf queens again and prevent all that shit from happening?
pprrii
Profile Joined September 2012
Russian Federation216 Posts
November 21 2012 11:16 GMT
#418
On November 21 2012 20:13 EvilChuck wrote:
Anyone tried the Immortal All-In PartinG is using? Wouldn't it be kinda unfair if you cant fungal sentries?

Zerg cant defend perfect executed immo allin with infestors...So it doesn't matter
Ucs
Profile Joined October 2010
264 Posts
November 21 2012 11:17 GMT
#419
Make Medivacs psionic and this change might actually work!
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
November 21 2012 11:17 GMT
#420
On November 21 2012 20:15 Kitaen wrote:
or just nerf queens again and prevent all that shit from happening?


FFS, queens have NOTHING to do with the problems of BL/infestor. Zerg just gets there a little easier now.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
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