Call to Action: Balance Testing (2012/11/20) - Page 18

On November 21 2012 18:17 zhurai wrote:

*either add psionic OR increase the range of hsm

only if you increase the range, people will start complaining because omgterranbuffedmorewhy stupidity
(although the energy cost is extremely high too)

On November 21 2012 18:33 ultratorr wrote:
How come Blizzard keeps saying win rates are fine, or there's no statistical imbalance, but TL would often cites that zerg has higher win rate in for example ZvT?

On November 21 2012 16:47 Richard Nixon wrote:
Warning: this post is long. Very long. If you don't like walls of text, skip this post.

Analysis of the Raven buff

The change to HSM has two different effects- it saves time and it saves resources. I'm going to look into just how much benefit a Terran actually gains from this in regards to each element separately.

Starting with the resources, take the cost of the research- 150/150. Because the research affects all Ravens you make, if you only make one Raven in a game, you save 150/150 resources per Raven made. If you make 6 Ravens over the course of the game, then you save 25/25 per Raven made. If you make 25 Ravens over the course of the game, you save a mere 7 minerals/gas per Raven. This means that in a late-game situation where a Terran is likely to be floating several thousand gas, they now get a marginally cheaper Raven. The longer the game goes on, and the more Ravens that are made, the more trivial this buff becomes. Clearly this isn't going to make any sort of difference in terms of a late-game economy. The greatest effect this buff has, in terms of resources, is in the mid-game where resources are your biggest constraint.

Now, for the buff in regards to saving time, I'm going to make a few assumptions for a pro Terran (this means that stupid mistakes, such as forgetting upgrades, are not made). The first is that the Corvid Reactor upgrade is researched before the first Raven is built, and that the production of the first Raven is timed so that the first Raven pops immediately following completion of Corvid Reactor. Lastly, assume that the research of HSM (in terms of time) only provides a constraint to the first Raven(s).

Keep in mind that, in terms of time, HSM has two requirements in order to be used- the research time of the upgrade and energy (which is generated over time). Also, because we assumed that the Raven has Corvid Reactor and pops with 75 energy, the Raven must wait a total of 89 seconds for the energy to cast HSM (125 energy total - 75 starting energy = 50 energy. 50 energy / 0.5625 energy per second = 89 seconds to gain 50 energy).

So now that the assumptions have been made, there are two possible cases- (1) the Terran has only one Starport (and thus upgrade research conflicts), or (2) the Terran has multiple Starports (and research does not conflict).


Case 1: The Terran has only one Starport (aka the worst possible case)
HSM research requires 110 seconds. A Raven requires 89 seconds to generate the energy required. Because HSM is assumed to be queued immediately after Corvid Reactor, there is a 21 second window where the only constraint is HSM research finishing. Therefore, by not requiring HSM to be researched, HSM can hit the field 21 seconds faster.
+ Show Spoiler +


Case 2: The Terran has multiple Starports (aka a much more likely case)
However, if the Terran has multiple Starports making Ravens, HSM can be researched at the same time as Corvid Reactor and the production of the actual Raven. Since Ravens require 60 seconds build time + 89 seconds to gain the energy required, it takes 149 seconds from the moment the Raven is queued before the energy restraint can be met. HSM takes only 110 seconds. Therefore, if Corvid Reactor and HSM can be researched concurrently, the buff to HSM has zero effect on how early HSM can possibly hit the field.


Conclusion:

Masters+:
You save miniscule amounts of resources per Raven in a late-game transition, and HSM will not be ready any faster if you create more than one Starport (read: there is NO benefit). If you wish to make use of this buff, use (1) very few Ravens, as the cost per Raven will significantly cheaper, and (2) only use one Starport to begin Raven production. Otherwise, you will not notice any difference between the test map and normal ladder games.

Everyone else:
You don't have to worry about getting the upgrade, potentially losing you the game. Other than that, you will not notice any difference whatsoever.

On November 21 2012 18:42 Roth wrote:
I really like the Fungal change. Seems like Blizzard finally tries not to overnerv units.

On November 21 2012 18:52 Holdinga wrote:
I don't like the Fungal change. It is not the right way to go. How the hell would you kill a warp prism with speed without fungaling it ? I mean fungal is obviously imba, but this is definitely not the right way to go. make it just not to effect ghosts and HT if you are going to go for this change, but Archon, DT, warp prism, it's too much...

On November 21 2012 15:18 Whitewing wrote:
Serious question for all the zergs out there: why do you feel it is a right to be able to, in ZvP, go zergling into roach into infestor into broodlords as your composition? Protoss can't go directly into archon mothership, we need to do sentry/immortal as a bridge composition to take a third base, and then need to add high templar or colossi in order to defend against infested terran bombs. Terran has to constantly add in new units in their composition, adding in siege tanks to defend against roach busts or die to them if they come, mixing in hellions for map control and zergling defense, they can't just rush straight to their perfect composition off of the strength of one or two units. Why should zerg be able to open with hatch tech units then rush straight to end game composition? There should be a transition there, a bridge of some kind that gets them there. One of the biggest design flaws is that they don't need one, which is why broodlord/infestor is always out way before the equivalent protoss (carrier/archon/mothership/high templar with some stalkers and maybe some colossi) or terran (marine/ghost/battlecruiser/raven/thor) army is. Hell, terran's can't even TRY to get their ultra late game army out most games, let alone figure out the transition, they simply never have the time. You know why we never see BC's or late game sky terran armies? It's not because the units are weak or suck, it's because they can't survive long enough to get them out with the upgrades they need, zerg gets to their end game army too fast and is too dangerous. Protoss rarely gets to make carriers, and only when zerg decides to turtle on his already finished army for 10 minutes.

On November 21 2012 19:02 Glorfindel! wrote:
The Raven change will probably only change TvT a tiny bit with more with HSM being used a bit more in air battles.
However, for TvZ, when Terran starts massing Ravens (I am Terran myself) I never have any problem affording 150/150. Makes no difference at all. When you start Raven Production you start HSM-upgrade aswell.