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ok so.. GSL Bel'Shir Vestige is ohana but 2x bigger, gl terrans~
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Meh, nothing new or fancy. Well, it's a new map, which is always nice, but no real new ideas added, it's pretty much the same old. Generally, GSL have been doing a decent job at introducing maps, but I feel it's a shame that they trade new maps for new maps, while keeping all the really old ones. In this case, I am glad to see Ohana go, but meh, maps are in a really stale period right now. I'd love to see experimentation with removing the Xel'Naga Watchtowers some day.
EDIT: I may sound negative towards this map in the above, but it looks like a decent map, it's not this map I find boring, it's the overall map pool. Will have a go at playing a bit on it later.
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Disagree on this map. Ohana is one of the best maps ever made and that map sucks for protoss so hard it will be replaced so fast, I wont even have to blink in my wait. Removed Ohana but not Valley. What the heck GSL. RIP Ohana and IronManSC.
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On October 24 2012 00:55 ROOTT1 wrote:
ok so.. GSL Bel'Shir Vestige is ohana but 2x bigger, gl terrans~
/Agree
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On October 24 2012 00:49 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 00:27 twoliveanddie wrote:On October 23 2012 21:47 opterown wrote:On October 23 2012 21:46 Kiyo. wrote:On October 23 2012 21:43 Dodgin wrote:On October 23 2012 21:40 Lylat wrote:On October 23 2012 21:33 Fragile51 wrote:On October 23 2012 21:31 X3GoldDot wrote:On October 23 2012 21:19 GTR wrote:
Remove Ohana, but not Antiga or Entombed (or even Daybreak)?
Really? daybreak is the best map atm no? Daybreak is a great map, and it's also old as fuck. I mean it's great that the map has endured for so long but it's time for something else, to be honest. Weird logic, if it's great why would you change it and risking having a bad map instead ? because watching games on the same maps forever is boring Maybe for some people, but I'd imagine mostly not. CS1.6 had the same maps for most of its esport lifetime. DotA/LoL use the same single map and they're fine. Do football fields get boring because they all look the same? yeah, football needs high ground, high yield minerals, destructible rocks and xelnaga towers! holy crap imagine the effect on the game lol + Show Spoiler +I'd argue that the field of play in most sports takes a "PERSONALITY OF ITS OWN" much like maps do in Starcraft.
Football:
-100 yards from goal line to goal line. with endzones each 10 yards deep. 160 feet between sidelines.
-artificial turf
-natural grass
-indoor stadiums
-take into consideration weather conditions like snow, ice, rain, extreme heat, extreme cold, wind, all of which play a role in how effective ball control is.
-College football and Professional Football use two different sets of hash marks
Baseball:
-what changes as far as dimensions in professional baseball and other leagues is the size of the outfield. the infield never changes, its a perfect square 90 feet per side.
-indoor
-outdoor
-turf
-natural grasss
-aritficial turf
-weather conditions like rain, mist, cold, heat, I have even seen games played with thousands of moths flying around.
-depending on the time of day, the sun can play a major role in visability, shadows that fool the batter or the fielders
-the baseball diamond has had the same dimensions for at least 150 years. 90 feet between each base in a perfect square. with the pitchers mound 60 feet 6 inches from homeplate directly in line between homeplate and second base.
Hockey:
-very little changes in a Hockey arena, but the ice does change after 20 mins of skating on it. hence why the Zambonee resurfaces the ice between periods
by the way, hockey and Baseball share this quality in that during breaks, the grounds crew can change the playing field by repairing flaws.
Basketball:
-probably the only major sport with very little change to the field of play. the court for most major competitions is almost always indoors, in a controlled environment.
-the biggest change to the sport of basketball was the implementation of the 3-point line. This 3-point line is still being changed to this day and has seen experimentation with distances to the basket in different leagues.
Tennis:
-Grass, Clay, Concrete
-concrete can have a number of different finishing surfaces one of which is Carpet used in some indoor arenas.
-Grass courts and Clay courts can take on a personality of their own through wear and tear and are constantly being monitored and repaired.
-Professional Tennis matches are almost always played in sunlight or artificial light, during non-precipitation. the only exception to this is that Clay can absorb water and can withstand a light drizzle.
-Wind in outdoor matches can have a dramatic affect on ball control.
Soccer:
-for being one of the most widely played sports in the world, Soccer has never had a set standard for the dimensions of the field. depending on where you are in the world. the field can be really big or kind of small.
-in FIFA matches, the field must be 100-130 yards in length and 50-100 yards in width.
-like many of the other sports, this game can be played on different types of fields. Grass, artificial turf, indoors, outdoors.
-there are some varieties of the game that occur on much smaller fields like indoor arena type soccer games
-this game has also seen a change in the types of soccer balls used.
-outdoor games have seen its fair share of matches played in rain, wind, snow, extreme heat and extreme cold.
--------------- so as you can see. I think we miss the point sometimes that the map, even if its just the map, does become a character. its character shines through when strategies are conceived which take advantage of its character. which happens in any sport. What you describe is more analogous to a map's tileset than the map layout. Everything you describe, the layout remains the same. Still two goals, still 15 feet from the ring, still a diamond, etc. It's only the tileset that really changes, as well as some physics changes but do we really want snow/beach/metal/grass maps to have bonus/penalties too?
The tileset doesn't effect the game or what strategies are effective. Consider football when it is snowing heavily out, you can no longer rely on long passes. Teams like the packers who utilize long passes to destroy teams will now have to alter how they play the matchup on that day (or that particular map). For tennis, difference surfaces favor different players, the best example is Nadal on clay courts. Baseball stadiums also change a lot for which team has an advantage and how you play the game. For instance, Yankee stadium is known to be very easy to hit homeruns in, compared to say Safeco field which is known to be very hard. That makes stadiums either pitcher's field or batter's field, which favors a team with either a better pitching lineup or the team who has better hitters. The field and the weather change how you have to play on certain "maps". It is not like a tileset at all, it changes how you have to play the game that day. Which I would liken to what harder to take thirds, lots of dead air space behind mineral lines, xel'naga towers in the middle of the map, and ramps at the natural do in starcraft - it changes how you approach the game on that day.
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On October 23 2012 21:37 MrCon wrote:
They can't remove Antiga and Entombed as long as other new fair terran maps won't be introduced.
They just removed the most terran favored map in the pool.
Just saying.
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Also terran sucks on that map.
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Not going to say anything negative XD It's really big!
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On October 24 2012 01:21 GohgamX wrote:
Not going to say anything negative XD It's really big!
It is Ohana with these following flaws:
Its to big.
They copied of a map that was way better.
3rds are extinct for P in PvZ.
IronManSC is gonna be really sad.
Is that what you wanna say?
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On October 24 2012 01:07 convention wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 00:49 lichter wrote:On October 24 2012 00:27 twoliveanddie wrote:On October 23 2012 21:47 opterown wrote:On October 23 2012 21:46 Kiyo. wrote:On October 23 2012 21:43 Dodgin wrote:On October 23 2012 21:40 Lylat wrote:On October 23 2012 21:33 Fragile51 wrote:On October 23 2012 21:31 X3GoldDot wrote:On October 23 2012 21:19 GTR wrote:
Remove Ohana, but not Antiga or Entombed (or even Daybreak)?
Really? daybreak is the best map atm no? Daybreak is a great map, and it's also old as fuck. I mean it's great that the map has endured for so long but it's time for something else, to be honest. Weird logic, if it's great why would you change it and risking having a bad map instead ? because watching games on the same maps forever is boring Maybe for some people, but I'd imagine mostly not. CS1.6 had the same maps for most of its esport lifetime. DotA/LoL use the same single map and they're fine. Do football fields get boring because they all look the same? yeah, football needs high ground, high yield minerals, destructible rocks and xelnaga towers! holy crap imagine the effect on the game lol + Show Spoiler +I'd argue that the field of play in most sports takes a "PERSONALITY OF ITS OWN" much like maps do in Starcraft.
Football:
-100 yards from goal line to goal line. with endzones each 10 yards deep. 160 feet between sidelines.
-artificial turf
-natural grass
-indoor stadiums
-take into consideration weather conditions like snow, ice, rain, extreme heat, extreme cold, wind, all of which play a role in how effective ball control is.
-College football and Professional Football use two different sets of hash marks
Baseball:
-what changes as far as dimensions in professional baseball and other leagues is the size of the outfield. the infield never changes, its a perfect square 90 feet per side.
-indoor
-outdoor
-turf
-natural grasss
-aritficial turf
-weather conditions like rain, mist, cold, heat, I have even seen games played with thousands of moths flying around.
-depending on the time of day, the sun can play a major role in visability, shadows that fool the batter or the fielders
-the baseball diamond has had the same dimensions for at least 150 years. 90 feet between each base in a perfect square. with the pitchers mound 60 feet 6 inches from homeplate directly in line between homeplate and second base.
Hockey:
-very little changes in a Hockey arena, but the ice does change after 20 mins of skating on it. hence why the Zambonee resurfaces the ice between periods
by the way, hockey and Baseball share this quality in that during breaks, the grounds crew can change the playing field by repairing flaws.
Basketball:
-probably the only major sport with very little change to the field of play. the court for most major competitions is almost always indoors, in a controlled environment.
-the biggest change to the sport of basketball was the implementation of the 3-point line. This 3-point line is still being changed to this day and has seen experimentation with distances to the basket in different leagues.
Tennis:
-Grass, Clay, Concrete
-concrete can have a number of different finishing surfaces one of which is Carpet used in some indoor arenas.
-Grass courts and Clay courts can take on a personality of their own through wear and tear and are constantly being monitored and repaired.
-Professional Tennis matches are almost always played in sunlight or artificial light, during non-precipitation. the only exception to this is that Clay can absorb water and can withstand a light drizzle.
-Wind in outdoor matches can have a dramatic affect on ball control.
Soccer:
-for being one of the most widely played sports in the world, Soccer has never had a set standard for the dimensions of the field. depending on where you are in the world. the field can be really big or kind of small.
-in FIFA matches, the field must be 100-130 yards in length and 50-100 yards in width.
-like many of the other sports, this game can be played on different types of fields. Grass, artificial turf, indoors, outdoors.
-there are some varieties of the game that occur on much smaller fields like indoor arena type soccer games
-this game has also seen a change in the types of soccer balls used.
-outdoor games have seen its fair share of matches played in rain, wind, snow, extreme heat and extreme cold.
--------------- so as you can see. I think we miss the point sometimes that the map, even if its just the map, does become a character. its character shines through when strategies are conceived which take advantage of its character. which happens in any sport. What you describe is more analogous to a map's tileset than the map layout. Everything you describe, the layout remains the same. Still two goals, still 15 feet from the ring, still a diamond, etc. It's only the tileset that really changes, as well as some physics changes but do we really want snow/beach/metal/grass maps to have bonus/penalties too? The tileset doesn't effect the game or what strategies are effective. Consider football when it is snowing heavily out, you can no longer rely on long passes. Teams like the packers who utilize long passes to destroy teams will now have to alter how they play the matchup on that day (or that particular map). For tennis, difference surfaces favor different players, the best example is Nadal on clay courts. Baseball stadiums also change a lot for which team has an advantage and how you play the game. For instance, Yankee stadium is known to be very easy to hit homeruns in, compared to say Safeco field which is known to be very hard. That makes stadiums either pitcher's field or batter's field, which favors a team with either a better pitching lineup or the team who has better hitters. The field and the weather change how you have to play on certain "maps". It is not like a tileset at all, it changes how you have to play the game that day. Which I would liken to what harder to take thirds, lots of dead air space behind mineral lines, xel'naga towers in the middle of the map, and ramps at the natural do in starcraft - it changes how you approach the game on that day.
I conceded that the various weather conditions, court materials, etc do have an effect, but it isn't analogous to map layout. It affects 'map physics' (such as, slippery ball on rain soaked field, easier to get tired in high altitude stadiums, balls don't roll on snowy fields, basically the stuff you mention). Unfortunately the different tilesets in SC2 don't affect map physics. If they did, beachy tilesets would slow down mech movement, snow maps would freeze/slow zerg units, and other similar effects. Pretty sure no one wants that.
I'm not saying that the different field conditions don't matter because they obviously do, I'm just saying that it isn't the same as having different map layouts, which is the topic of discussion.
The analogy just doesn't work very well. The closest you can make is with golf, because each course has a different layout.
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On October 23 2012 21:19 GTR wrote:
Remove Ohana, but not Antiga or Entombed (or even Daybreak)?
Really?
Yeah, I can't take another season of Antiga.
Interested to see the new map, however. Although I'd like one map without rocks or a watchtower.
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This map is fking huge..dear god
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On October 23 2012 21:24 feanor1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 21:19 Asha` wrote:On October 23 2012 21:19 GTR wrote:
Remove Ohana, but not Antiga or Entombed (or even Daybreak)?
Really? Well Ohana is super fucking boring. But it means family. Moving to a larger map again, feels to large map centric to me.
You can debate all the reasons behind it but the last few seasons have been really good concerning the ratio of races in ro8 and players relative skill aswell. I think the maps have something to do with that.
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Map looks like a cross between Crossfire and Ohana.
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Why are Tournaments so lazy when it comes with maps? Change up the map pool already. Also can we get a map without Xelnaga Towers. Xelnaga Towers promotes lazyness and turtly play.
EDIT: One of the reasons I stopped laddering so much was because of how bored I got with the map pool. Don't make me get bored of GSL.
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this map reminds me of daybreak and whirlwind
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How is toss supposed to take a third here?
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So many big maps. Are the games really funnier and more balanced on those?
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This looks like ohana and daybreak had a baby. Sad to see Ohana go and not entombed
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EPT
