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On September 14 2012 03:28 Veriol wrote:
Rofl this hate against MoW ur all blind or what.
Fuzer goes to poland
1) He doesnt read contract
2) He pays 1200$ without asking for receipt or anything.
3) Then lives in house OVER a month. Wihtout sining contract.
4) They ask him to sing or it leave and he makes TL drama and everyone starts hating on mow?
What im i missing please.
I guess you are the blind one, maybe read everything instead of making conclusions that are wrong.
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On September 14 2012 03:45 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 03:26 Roman666 wrote:On September 14 2012 03:18 Cheerio wrote:On September 14 2012 03:11 nikoYO wrote:This has been received as a stalling tactics and brought unnecessary and unprofessional tension to the conversation, which in retrospect could have been avoided especially on our side. Leading a company revolving around people requires unwavering patience and calm especially in tense situations and this is a major lesson for us in all our future dealings. Words unbefitting a gentleman have been said, fences have not been mended and as a result on Tuesday the 11th Samuli has been asked to either sign the contract or leave until 22:00. Upon announcing that he chose the latter, a refund for the remaining days has been offered and turned down. (Skype log, censored the name of the guy who runs MoW = Boss)
[11.9.2012 12:41:24] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: so you have to pay me back from th emoney
[11.9.2012 12:41:33] Boss: nope, I don't have
[11.9.2012 12:41:40] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: ok
[11.9.2012 12:41:50] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: so i paid you from this month
[11.9.2012 12:41:53] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: and im not here for this month
[11.9.2012 12:41:56] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: so you give back my money
[11.9.2012 12:41:58] Boss: You are breaking the rules
[11.9.2012 12:42:02] Boss: you know how it works?
[11.9.2012 12:42:06] Boss: If not - read the contract again
[11.9.2012 12:42:08] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: well
[11.9.2012 12:42:11] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: as you said i didnt sign it
[11.9.2012 12:42:17] Boss: So I don't have your money
[11.9.2012 12:42:32] Boss: Do you have any confirmation?
[11.9.2012 12:42:41] Boss: No. So now you see my situation when you don't sign the contract. good one lol yeah thanks for bringing it up. I almost forgot what an asshole Boss is. MoW you are not getting away from this while Boss remains at MoW. No fucking way. Then Boss replied in kind. Clearly you have absolutely no idea what was his point and yet you call him an asshole. Yes I did. That was not "replying" in kind, that was a deliberate attempt at committing a fraud, and a stupid one. Fazer was defending his right for a compensation which was due to him unless he signed some dumb contract, which he did not and pointed it out.
Agree with this guy 100%!
They were basically trying to keep Fuzer's money against the law!
They "acted nice" after Fuzer threaten to post the situation. And "nice" isn't the right word since he threatened him with the NDA!!
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On September 14 2012 03:48 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 03:41 scypio wrote:
And what if Fuzer knew that part of the house rules that early leave does not entitle him to get a refund? Would you still give him his money back unconditionally? The house rules that he didn't sign, you mean? You can't enforce the rules of a contract that the person didn't agree to.
This is what MoW wrote in the OP:
"The fee of 2 500 PLN (circa €600 or $785) is charged up front for full months of all inclusive stay in the house. This is the first consideration the players are presented with before coming to the house"
If he was informed about it in the first place and moved into the house I would assume he at least verbally agreed to that rule. Verbal contract is binding.
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As someone else just said - he paid for 2 months. Why are they trying to force him to sign a contract at the beginning of the second month, and tell him that he either signs or has to leave? If he's paid for 2 months - then they should tell him towards the end of the month:
"Hey, you've been here two months as per your payment - please sign the contract or we cannot let you stay the next month."
This is the most odd part to me. There was absolutely no reason to accept two months payment if you don't intend on letting them stay the second month without coercion.
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On September 14 2012 03:45 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 03:26 Roman666 wrote:On September 14 2012 03:18 Cheerio wrote:On September 14 2012 03:11 nikoYO wrote:This has been received as a stalling tactics and brought unnecessary and unprofessional tension to the conversation, which in retrospect could have been avoided especially on our side. Leading a company revolving around people requires unwavering patience and calm especially in tense situations and this is a major lesson for us in all our future dealings. Words unbefitting a gentleman have been said, fences have not been mended and as a result on Tuesday the 11th Samuli has been asked to either sign the contract or leave until 22:00. Upon announcing that he chose the latter, a refund for the remaining days has been offered and turned down. (Skype log, censored the name of the guy who runs MoW = Boss)
[11.9.2012 12:41:24] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: so you have to pay me back from th emoney
[11.9.2012 12:41:33] Boss: nope, I don't have
[11.9.2012 12:41:40] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: ok
[11.9.2012 12:41:50] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: so i paid you from this month
[11.9.2012 12:41:53] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: and im not here for this month
[11.9.2012 12:41:56] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: so you give back my money
[11.9.2012 12:41:58] Boss: You are breaking the rules
[11.9.2012 12:42:02] Boss: you know how it works?
[11.9.2012 12:42:06] Boss: If not - read the contract again
[11.9.2012 12:42:08] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: well
[11.9.2012 12:42:11] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: as you said i didnt sign it
[11.9.2012 12:42:17] Boss: So I don't have your money
[11.9.2012 12:42:32] Boss: Do you have any confirmation?
[11.9.2012 12:42:41] Boss: No. So now you see my situation when you don't sign the contract. good one lol yeah thanks for bringing it up. I almost forgot what an asshole Boss is. MoW you are not getting away from this while Boss remains at MoW. No fucking way. Then Boss replied in kind. Clearly you have absolutely no idea what was his point and yet you call him an asshole. Yes I did. That was not "replying" in kind, that was a deliberate attempt at committing a fraud, and a stupid one. Fazer was defending his right for a compensation which was due to him unless he signed some dumb contract, which he did not and pointed it out.
Then how Fazer was entitled to claim his money back when he had no confirmation? On a gentleman agreement? Boss could easily say that he is trying to extort the money. Isnt it a bit dumb too?
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On September 14 2012 01:30 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 01:26 Zim23 wrote:a refund for the remaining days has been offered and turned down. What an underhanded way to put it. This statement doesn't refute that you at first REFUSED to pay the guy back and then after being threatened offered to refund the cash. Yeah, this is what just makes me furious. The fact that they offered to pay only AFTER fuzer decided to go public is the most disgusting thing.
this is the one thing that pisses me off. i don't have any big gripe with the rest of it, but this is just plain bullshit.
the one thing they should deliver on they did not.
until they solve this in a respectable fashion mow's reputation is tainted.
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On September 14 2012 03:51 scypio wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 03:48 bonifaceviii wrote:On September 14 2012 03:41 scypio wrote:
And what if Fuzer knew that part of the house rules that early leave does not entitle him to get a refund? Would you still give him his money back unconditionally? The house rules that he didn't sign, you mean? You can't enforce the rules of a contract that the person didn't agree to. This is what MoW wrote in the OP: "The fee of 2 500 PLN (circa €600 or $785) is charged up front for full months of all inclusive stay in the house. This is the first consideration the players are presented with before coming to the house" If he was informed about it in the first place and moved into the house I would assume he at least verbally agreed to that rule. Verbal contract is binding.
And what is the verbally-agreed-upon method of compensation should MoW terminate the full months' inclusive stay?
Don't answer that, by the way, because it's obvious there wasn't one.
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On September 14 2012 01:27 courtpanda wrote:
"take us seriously please we want to be taken seriously"
"but here are kittens."
I like the cut of their jib.
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MoW still failed and hard.
1. They posted total FAIL press release.
2. They don't comment, why you can't join as coach or found teamhouse for 10 years. Why this?.
3. Boss realy realy should get fired. First he said that Fuzer didn't paid his money. HE LIED. Then he offerent money to get Fuzer silence, you know what that is? Corruption. Most of boss's post was total lies or total bullshit. WHATS WRONG WITH HIM?
4. They did not write real press release until community wanted it.
MoW have handled this situation very very poorly.
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"In conclusion, the Ministry of Win would like to apologize the whole e-sport community, the players, the viewers, everyone related to the Starcraft 2 scene and especially we apologize to Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen. Mistakes have been made and unfortunately time cannot be turned back. We are aware that as professionals, we should not let emotions take control over us and the whole situation should not have happened in the first place. After all we are here to support and help e-sports grow.
We are making an effort to prevent such a situation from ever happening again. A revised wording of the contract is being developed and a more clear contractual procedure devised. We hope that other players will benefit from existance of our house and our e-sport venture will help advance their careers. Virgil said “Hard work conquers all” — so we will do our best to make it happen."
I posted this in the original thread yesterday -
On September 13 2012 09:50 GuitarBizarre wrote:
Ministry of Win's best action right now, REGARDLESS OF WHAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE TAKEN PLACE is just to resolve this with Fuzer, have Fuzer make a statement that the matter has been resolved and he's apologetic towards MoW for causing them trouble, despite the circumstances, and then MOW release a statement somewaht like the following:
"We, the Ministry of Win, would like to make a further statement, regarding the happenings with Fuzer.
Now that the details, many of which we did not intend to become public, have been released, we realise that at times there have been things said and actions taken which are unbecoming of the image we wish to build and the training environment we wish to provide.
We have discussed and resolved with Fuzer the issues, and we're pleased to report that after a more level headed discussion, we have agreed terms and refunded to Fuzer the portion of his payment which we have mutually agreed constitutes a reasonable amount for the portion of services we will not be providing to him.
We will also be looking to move forward and learn from this. We hope to provide a much less confusing contractual environment for our players and staff in future, and we will be looking at revising wording and terms in our contracts moving forward.
We will also certainly look at instituting a proper system of payment, whereby situations like this one, arising from a player living in the house without having signed his contract prior, will not occur.
We would like to apologise to all Starcraft fans, but we hope that Fuzer's most recent post will show you there is no bad blood between us, and in future, the testimonials of those players still in the house, and the many more we hope will follow them, will prove to you that we are a respectable organisation dedicated to providing Starcraft and the foreign scene with the best training and opportunities we can, at the highest levels"
I have one minor quibble with this: Has Fuzer had his refund offered again, in order to resolve the issue on both sides?
I'll happily accept that this statement is basically exactly what I was asking for, and I'm very happy with MoW's apparent contrition and acceptance of responsibility. It does a lot for them in my eyes.
But I don't want to hear that Fuzer is still out in the cold, unfortunately.
Regardless, very much a step in the right direction.
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On September 14 2012 03:54 bonifaceviii wrote:
And what is the verbally-agreed-upon method of compensation should MoW terminate the full months' inclusive stay?
Don't answer that, by the way, because it's obvious there wasn't one.
He had a month to read into the house rules to find it out. It's not like it fell out of the blue sky, eh?
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On September 14 2012 03:56 scypio wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 03:54 bonifaceviii wrote:
And what is the verbally-agreed-upon method of compensation should MoW terminate the full months' inclusive stay?
Don't answer that, by the way, because it's obvious there wasn't one. He had a month to read into the house rules to find it out. It's not like it fell out of the blue sky, eh?
"Read into"? What does that even mean?
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Some details are still off, or were ignored. I'll just be considering MoW slightly unreputable for the future.
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If MoW would just give Fuzer his second month's rent back, I would be satisfied. Or at least make it clear that Fuzer can receive it at any point within the next month, giving Fuzer the opportunity 1) Get his money back or 2) Make a statement by not taking it.
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MoW is just total fail and unprofessional. Sad to see players being taken advantage of like this.
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On September 14 2012 03:58 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 03:56 scypio wrote:On September 14 2012 03:54 bonifaceviii wrote:
And what is the verbally-agreed-upon method of compensation should MoW terminate the full months' inclusive stay?
Don't answer that, by the way, because it's obvious there wasn't one. He had a month to read into the house rules to find it out. It's not like it fell out of the blue sky, eh? "Read into"? What does that even mean?
I meant "read through".
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still does not solve the issue of being unprofessional bringing guests back in the late hours of the morning.
and oh, trying to solve the issue after all these has happen does not end well usually
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On September 14 2012 01:26 Stropheum wrote:
I don't understand why this thread is so poorly recieved. It seems like Fuzer had all the time in the world to revise his contract and only waited until he was out of time to actually ask for a consultation. On top of that, he didn't seem to understand any of the terms he was agreeing to or the fact that he was paying by month BECAUSE he hadn't yet signed a contract agreeing to the flat fee, and his experience prior to that was actually designed as more of a tour/flavor of the experience to help sway his decision in a more timely manner (which it clearly didn't)
All for ministry of win on this one. You guys don't need your reputation tarnished over this. People need to make sure they take care of their shit before sitting down to play every day.
Uh, according to Fuzer, MoW was not sending the legal documents to his lawyer and were demanding to see law credentials, etc. So, if anything, it sounds like MoW was dragging it out. And if someone won't let your lawyer review legal documents you pretty much know they are trying to do something shady.
And the "refund" that they said they offered was only offered after Fuzer said he was going to be revealing all this information to the public - aka, they were trying to shut him up about their shadiness.
So it seems pretty obvious that MoW is in the wrong, especially after seeing the way MoW Boss talked to Fuzer...
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jeez, ministry sounds shady as HELL.
sooo you have things in your contract but certain things you just... dont enforce? did I read that correctly?
what a joke :O
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On September 14 2012 04:02 scypio wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 03:58 bonifaceviii wrote:On September 14 2012 03:56 scypio wrote:On September 14 2012 03:54 bonifaceviii wrote:
And what is the verbally-agreed-upon method of compensation should MoW terminate the full months' inclusive stay?
Don't answer that, by the way, because it's obvious there wasn't one. He had a month to read into the house rules to find it out. It's not like it fell out of the blue sky, eh? "Read into"? What does that even mean? I meant "read through".
So you don't disagree that Fuzer agreed to pay rent, and then would have had to sign the contract in order to consent to forfeiting his rent in the case of him getting kicked out?
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EPT
