On August 25 2012 00:30 Kilocide wrote: Here's the thing and it's very important so I hope it is well understood by the people involved. The only leverage the ESF players and GSL have in this dispute is that Kespa teams and players ARE NOT THE BEST SC2 PLAYERS........ yet. If ESF players compete against Kespa players and lose their only leverage is gone. ESF better be damn sure they can win any tournament they play against Kespa players until they have rock solid agreements with massive penalties for default. This needs to be nipped in the bud right now or gom and esf are going to get gg'd. Kespa has to prove their players are the best in the world at sc2 before they can tell everyone to fuck off. My guess is they will the minute that happens.
Yup and with the recent match results, the gap is closing rather quickly. The current GOM SC2 players aren't uniquely special, I hope they realize that.
On August 25 2012 00:17 Athos wrote: God I remember when Kespa's pressure brought down the first GOM Starleague. I really hate Kespa and think GOM actually has the upper hand here. The GSL players actually have more value than the Kepsa players because they have proved themselves as the best SCII players, and we're yet to see that really from the Kespa players. This kind of gridlock may suck, but its a necessary move coming from GOM.
And I remember when gom decided to become blizzard's bitch and helped them destroy BW. Do you remember how they blackmailed KeSPA to give up ProLeague's primetime slots in favour of gsl simply because nobody wanted to watch that over ProLeague?
I'm siding with KeSPA because they stuck with BW until blizzard made it unsustainable. Screw blizzard and gom.
Blizard destroyed BW with SC2? What a joke you are .
No he's pretty much right, Blizzard's original position against Kespa was so ridiculously unfair and anti-BW it was laughable, hence the 2 years of deadlock between the two parties
true blizz fudged and tried to end bw, but not because they hated bw. Because Kespa was playing their game illegally and not compensating blizz.
kespa kicked gom out of bw as well fyi
They were not playing the game illegally. Blizzard CEO's were to numerous OSL's before the whole fiasco. Hanbit Soft, BW's publisher for Korean, had an agreement with KeSPA on blizzard's behalf, they even became part of KeSPA after acquiring a team.
Blizzard and KeSPA were on good terms before blizzard decided to replace BW with SC2.
KeSPA agreed to compensate blizzard with money from THE VERY BEGINNING of the whole dispute. The thing is, blizzard didn't want just money. They wanted full rights to basically everything (content, including things like BNet Attack, players, scheduling) and eventual transition to SC2, in spite of BW's popularity and SC2's lack of popularity.
So stop making shit up.
On August 25 2012 00:36 FairForever wrote:
On August 25 2012 00:23 maybenexttime wrote:
On August 25 2012 00:17 Athos wrote: God I remember when Kespa's pressure brought down the first GOM Starleague. I really hate Kespa and think GOM actually has the upper hand here. The GSL players actually have more value than the Kepsa players because they have proved themselves as the best SCII players, and we're yet to see that really from the Kespa players. This kind of gridlock may suck, but its a necessary move coming from GOM.
And I remember when gom decided to become blizzard's bitch and helped them destroy BW. Do you remember how they blackmailed KeSPA to give up ProLeague's primetime slots in favour of gsl simply because nobody wanted to watch that over ProLeague?
I'm siding with KeSPA because they stuck with BW until blizzard made it unsustainable. Screw blizzard and gom.
Blizzard made BW unsustainable? You gotta be kidding yourself. There's a reason why 3 teams folded in the same season, and the new joint team is still without a sponsor.
There weren't any new sponsors coming into BW. Not sure how Blizzard plays into this at all.
Ask anyone with a clue. Match fixing and the lawsuit were two major reasons for BW's downfall. The number of teams used to be lower than 12. I believe it started with around 8, then expanded to 10 and 12. Just because some sponsors backed out of the venture does not mean the whole scene would collapse. After all, if a scene can be called professional with chicken joint sponsors, I don't see a reason why a scene with 7 major sponsors + ShinHan Bank could not survive.
MBCGame changed their profile for other reasons. WeMade, I believe, could no longer afford having a team (which was very expensive).
So yeah, unless you can source that claim you are making up "shit" too and following hearsay.
Furthermore, Blizzard made other unreasonable requests beyond the rights of the copyright holder, such as royalties and sub-licensing fees on sponsorships and broadcasting fees, the right to audit KeSPA’s finances, as well as ownership of secondary content created through our unique resources in the teams, players, and broadcasting expertise.
Got lambasted by nuthuggers earlier in the thread when i asked for proof for the claim that OGN is on KeSPA's board of directors. Here you go.
Sigh Blizz. Sometimes they make it so hard to be a fan. But still... Kespa is in the wrong today/yesterday.
A good move by ESF. Practically a prisoner's dilemma with repeated games. It will be better for both parties in the long run when Kespa understands that GOM is serious.
On August 25 2012 00:17 Athos wrote: God I remember when Kespa's pressure brought down the first GOM Starleague. I really hate Kespa and think GOM actually has the upper hand here. The GSL players actually have more value than the Kepsa players because they have proved themselves as the best SCII players, and we're yet to see that really from the Kespa players. This kind of gridlock may suck, but its a necessary move coming from GOM.
And I remember when gom decided to become blizzard's bitch and helped them destroy BW. Do you remember how they blackmailed KeSPA to give up ProLeague's primetime slots in favour of gsl simply because nobody wanted to watch that over ProLeague?
I'm siding with KeSPA because they stuck with BW until blizzard made it unsustainable. Screw blizzard and gom.
Blizard destroyed BW with SC2? What a joke you are .
No he's pretty much right, Blizzard's original position against Kespa was so ridiculously unfair and anti-BW it was laughable, hence the 2 years of deadlock between the two parties
true blizz fudged and tried to end bw, but not because they hated bw. Because Kespa was playing their game illegally and not compensating blizz.
kespa kicked gom out of bw as well fyi
They were not playing the game illegally. Blizzard CEO's were to numerous OSL's before the whole fiasco. Hanbit Soft, BW's publisher for Korean, had an agreement with KeSPA on blizzard's behalf, they even became part of KeSPA after acquiring a team.
Blizzard and KeSPA were on good terms before blizzard decided to replace BW with SC2.
KeSPA agreed to compensate blizzard with money from THE VERY BEGINNING of the whole dispute. The thing is, blizzard didn't want just money. They wanted full rights to basically everything (content, including things like BNet Attack, players, scheduling) and eventual transition to SC2, in spite of BW's popularity and SC2's lack of popularity.
So stop making shit up.
On August 25 2012 00:36 FairForever wrote:
On August 25 2012 00:23 maybenexttime wrote:
On August 25 2012 00:17 Athos wrote: God I remember when Kespa's pressure brought down the first GOM Starleague. I really hate Kespa and think GOM actually has the upper hand here. The GSL players actually have more value than the Kepsa players because they have proved themselves as the best SCII players, and we're yet to see that really from the Kespa players. This kind of gridlock may suck, but its a necessary move coming from GOM.
And I remember when gom decided to become blizzard's bitch and helped them destroy BW. Do you remember how they blackmailed KeSPA to give up ProLeague's primetime slots in favour of gsl simply because nobody wanted to watch that over ProLeague?
I'm siding with KeSPA because they stuck with BW until blizzard made it unsustainable. Screw blizzard and gom.
Blizzard made BW unsustainable? You gotta be kidding yourself. There's a reason why 3 teams folded in the same season, and the new joint team is still without a sponsor.
There weren't any new sponsors coming into BW. Not sure how Blizzard plays into this at all.
Ask anyone with a clue. Match fixing and the lawsuit were two major reasons for BW's downfall. The number of teams used to be lower than 12. I believe it started with around 8, then expanded to 10 and 12. Just because some sponsors backed out of the venture does not mean the whole scene would collapse. After all, if a scene can be called professional with chicken joint sponsors, I don't see a reason why a scene with 7 major sponsors + ShinHan Bank could not survive.
MBCGame changed their profile for other reasons. WeMade, I believe, could no longer afford having a team (which was very expensive).
So yeah, unless you can source that claim you are making up "shit" too and following hearsay.
Furthermore, Blizzard made other unreasonable requests beyond the rights of the copyright holder, such as royalties and sub-licensing fees on sponsorships and broadcasting fees, the right to audit KeSPA’s finances, as well as ownership of secondary content created through our unique resources in the teams, players, and broadcasting expertise.
Got lambasted by nuthuggers earlier in the thread when i asked for proof for the claim that OGN is on KeSPA's board of directors. Here you go.
Sigh Blizz. Sometimes they make it so hard to be a fan. But still... Kespa is in the wrong today/yesterday.
Blizzard's greed fucking up E-Sports. Here I thought it was just a few months ago they were trying to persuade everyone that they "love E-Sports".
On August 25 2012 00:17 Athos wrote: God I remember when Kespa's pressure brought down the first GOM Starleague. I really hate Kespa and think GOM actually has the upper hand here. The GSL players actually have more value than the Kepsa players because they have proved themselves as the best SCII players, and we're yet to see that really from the Kespa players. This kind of gridlock may suck, but its a necessary move coming from GOM.
And I remember when gom decided to become blizzard's bitch and helped them destroy BW. Do you remember how they blackmailed KeSPA to give up ProLeague's primetime slots in favour of gsl simply because nobody wanted to watch that over ProLeague?
I'm siding with KeSPA because they stuck with BW until blizzard made it unsustainable. Screw blizzard and gom.
Blizard destroyed BW with SC2? What a joke you are .
No he's pretty much right, Blizzard's original position against Kespa was so ridiculously unfair and anti-BW it was laughable, hence the 2 years of deadlock between the two parties
true blizz fudged and tried to end bw, but not because they hated bw. Because Kespa was playing their game illegally and not compensating blizz.
kespa kicked gom out of bw as well fyi
They were not playing the game illegally. Blizzard CEO's were to numerous OSL's before the whole fiasco. Hanbit Soft, BW's publisher for Korean, had an agreement with KeSPA on blizzard's behalf, they even became part of KeSPA after acquiring a team.
Blizzard and KeSPA were on good terms before blizzard decided to replace BW with SC2.
KeSPA agreed to compensate blizzard with money from THE VERY BEGINNING of the whole dispute. The thing is, blizzard didn't want just money. They wanted full rights to basically everything (content, including things like BNet Attack, players, scheduling) and eventual transition to SC2, in spite of BW's popularity and SC2's lack of popularity.
So stop making shit up.
On August 25 2012 00:36 FairForever wrote:
On August 25 2012 00:23 maybenexttime wrote:
On August 25 2012 00:17 Athos wrote: God I remember when Kespa's pressure brought down the first GOM Starleague. I really hate Kespa and think GOM actually has the upper hand here. The GSL players actually have more value than the Kepsa players because they have proved themselves as the best SCII players, and we're yet to see that really from the Kespa players. This kind of gridlock may suck, but its a necessary move coming from GOM.
And I remember when gom decided to become blizzard's bitch and helped them destroy BW. Do you remember how they blackmailed KeSPA to give up ProLeague's primetime slots in favour of gsl simply because nobody wanted to watch that over ProLeague?
I'm siding with KeSPA because they stuck with BW until blizzard made it unsustainable. Screw blizzard and gom.
Blizzard made BW unsustainable? You gotta be kidding yourself. There's a reason why 3 teams folded in the same season, and the new joint team is still without a sponsor.
There weren't any new sponsors coming into BW. Not sure how Blizzard plays into this at all.
Ask anyone with a clue. Match fixing and the lawsuit were two major reasons for BW's downfall. The number of teams used to be lower than 12. I believe it started with around 8, then expanded to 10 and 12. Just because some sponsors backed out of the venture does not mean the whole scene would collapse. After all, if a scene can be called professional with chicken joint sponsors, I don't see a reason why a scene with 7 major sponsors + ShinHan Bank could not survive.
MBCGame changed their profile for other reasons. WeMade, I believe, could no longer afford having a team (which was very expensive).
So yeah, unless you can source that claim you are making up "shit" too and following hearsay.
Furthermore, Blizzard made other unreasonable requests beyond the rights of the copyright holder, such as royalties and sub-licensing fees on sponsorships and broadcasting fees, the right to audit KeSPA’s finances, as well as ownership of secondary content created through our unique resources in the teams, players, and broadcasting expertise.
Got lambasted by nuthuggers earlier in the thread when i asked for proof for the claim that OGN is on KeSPA's board of directors. Here you go.
Sigh Blizz. Sometimes they make it so hard to be a fan. But still... Kespa is in the wrong today/yesterday.
Blizzard's greed fucking up E-Sports. Here I thought it was just a few months ago they were trying to persuade everyone that they "love E-Sports".
On August 25 2012 00:17 Athos wrote: God I remember when Kespa's pressure brought down the first GOM Starleague. I really hate Kespa and think GOM actually has the upper hand here. The GSL players actually have more value than the Kepsa players because they have proved themselves as the best SCII players, and we're yet to see that really from the Kespa players. This kind of gridlock may suck, but its a necessary move coming from GOM.
And I remember when gom decided to become blizzard's bitch and helped them destroy BW. Do you remember how they blackmailed KeSPA to give up ProLeague's primetime slots in favour of gsl simply because nobody wanted to watch that over ProLeague?
I'm siding with KeSPA because they stuck with BW until blizzard made it unsustainable. Screw blizzard and gom.
Blizard destroyed BW with SC2? What a joke you are .
No he's pretty much right, Blizzard's original position against Kespa was so ridiculously unfair and anti-BW it was laughable, hence the 2 years of deadlock between the two parties
true blizz fudged and tried to end bw, but not because they hated bw. Because Kespa was playing their game illegally and not compensating blizz.
kespa kicked gom out of bw as well fyi
They were not playing the game illegally. Blizzard CEO's were to numerous OSL's before the whole fiasco. Hanbit Soft, BW's publisher for Korean, had an agreement with KeSPA on blizzard's behalf, they even became part of KeSPA after acquiring a team.
Blizzard and KeSPA were on good terms before blizzard decided to replace BW with SC2.
KeSPA agreed to compensate blizzard with money from THE VERY BEGINNING of the whole dispute. The thing is, blizzard didn't want just money. They wanted full rights to basically everything (content, including things like BNet Attack, players, scheduling) and eventual transition to SC2, in spite of BW's popularity and SC2's lack of popularity.
So stop making shit up.
On August 25 2012 00:36 FairForever wrote:
On August 25 2012 00:23 maybenexttime wrote:
On August 25 2012 00:17 Athos wrote: God I remember when Kespa's pressure brought down the first GOM Starleague. I really hate Kespa and think GOM actually has the upper hand here. The GSL players actually have more value than the Kepsa players because they have proved themselves as the best SCII players, and we're yet to see that really from the Kespa players. This kind of gridlock may suck, but its a necessary move coming from GOM.
And I remember when gom decided to become blizzard's bitch and helped them destroy BW. Do you remember how they blackmailed KeSPA to give up ProLeague's primetime slots in favour of gsl simply because nobody wanted to watch that over ProLeague?
I'm siding with KeSPA because they stuck with BW until blizzard made it unsustainable. Screw blizzard and gom.
Blizzard made BW unsustainable? You gotta be kidding yourself. There's a reason why 3 teams folded in the same season, and the new joint team is still without a sponsor.
There weren't any new sponsors coming into BW. Not sure how Blizzard plays into this at all.
Ask anyone with a clue. Match fixing and the lawsuit were two major reasons for BW's downfall. The number of teams used to be lower than 12. I believe it started with around 8, then expanded to 10 and 12. Just because some sponsors backed out of the venture does not mean the whole scene would collapse. After all, if a scene can be called professional with chicken joint sponsors, I don't see a reason why a scene with 7 major sponsors + ShinHan Bank could not survive.
MBCGame changed their profile for other reasons. WeMade, I believe, could no longer afford having a team (which was very expensive).
So yeah, unless you can source that claim you are making up "shit" too and following hearsay.
Furthermore, Blizzard made other unreasonable requests beyond the rights of the copyright holder, such as royalties and sub-licensing fees on sponsorships and broadcasting fees, the right to audit KeSPA’s finances, as well as ownership of secondary content created through our unique resources in the teams, players, and broadcasting expertise.
Got lambasted by nuthuggers earlier in the thread when i asked for proof for the claim that OGN is on KeSPA's board of directors. Here you go.
Sigh Blizz. Sometimes they make it so hard to be a fan. But still... Kespa is in the wrong today/yesterday.
Blizzard's greed fucking up E-Sports. Here I thought it was just a few months ago they were trying to persuade everyone that they "love E-Sports".
And now Kespa is killing E-sports, We're all losers.
On August 25 2012 00:54 Boonbag wrote: You guys really don't get it. BW pro gaming stars are worth a crapload of marketing / audience money in Korea. These player korean gaming icons were nutured through a 12 years long daily broadcast on TV. Thats ALOT of time and money. Handing them for free to sc2 gom league is like giving away for nothing in return (oh yay ex c team dishwashers gamers !) something you kind of own and created and that is the source of your income.
There is no reason for them to do that. Eventually gom will die out and OGN will survive. And i'm all for that.
All this isn't kespa / esf faults or anyone. It's the pro gaming market wich is waaayyy too tiny and fragile and only financially proeminent in Korea which bring that kind of situation upon the scene.
That's only because there isn't enough money to be made so that everyone can happily share ans sustain itself.
And OGN is of course the most legitimate of all.
Now ofc kespa isn't OGN, but kespa is the emanation of the korean pro gaming scene, also, KESPA was created by korean gov, ESF isn't.
edit : and fxo boss's blog posts are so laughable. Acting like he has so much insight and stuff. Does he even speak korean fluently?
Easy to say that, but it's not universally accepted. LG, Red Bull, etc. are getting behind GOM teams, while Team 8 is still sponsorless. KeSPA is still way ahead in terms of Korean sponsors, but you look globally and you see a lot of success in GOM.
You're right that there is a lot of marketing money in the BW stars. However, you've overlooked one major thing - having the first SC2 tournament be a flop would be a huge embarrassment to KeSPA, it could permanently damage their image and their SC2 brand, as well as set off warning flares to potential sponsors. As long as the strife continues on, both GOM and KeSPA will suffer.
This is kind of like the prisoners' dilemma problem, where individually it makes sense for each to refuse participation in the other's league, but collectively they should be working together and allowing crossover.
FXOBoss' posts are a lot more reliable than your banter by the way (or mine), he actually spends a lot of time in Korea and I presume he has some insight into GOM/KeSPA/Blizzard negotiations, seeing as he is the manager of a major SC2 team.
Dude you have any idea what is the budget of a pro BW team ? Answer is : Millions.
Sc2 teams don't get much cash. Actually they almost don't get any at all....
People don't realise the magnitude of the differences.
And fxo boss doesn't sound very enlightened to me, more like attention whoring.
And you don't understand that everything can change. BW had 2 team disbanded by getting no sponsor, one team disbanded because BW losing its popularity, and one newly-formed team still has no sponsor. Money for team doesn't come in a bag and sit there for the rest of the team's life, money comes in a monthly paycheck which has a certain number which can be changed after evaluation every 3, or 6, or 12 months.
Bad moves pull, are pulling, and will pull sponsors off. Losing 8 players in ro16 of the first ever SC2 OSL is certainly not helping. The millions that teams are having now is based on BW records, nothing else. It simply put faith on BW players to do well on a new stage. That number will change, you can count on it, either go up or go down, depending on how well they perform. So yeah, the finance of teams on both sides doesn't even a matter here. Hypothetically, one year from now, ESF teams still don't have sponsors, and Kespa teams still have sponsors, but if ESF teams keep posting better results than Kespa teams, you bet the sponsored money for Kespa team will get lower and lower.
BW is not a magical place where everything is defied. Everything was, is and will be based on basic economic, finance, marketing principle.
On August 25 2012 00:54 Boonbag wrote: You guys really don't get it. BW pro gaming stars are worth a crapload of marketing / audience money in Korea. These player korean gaming icons were nutured through a 12 years long daily broadcast on TV. Thats ALOT of time and money. Handing them for free to sc2 gom league is like giving away for nothing in return (oh yay ex c team dishwashers gamers !) something you kind of own and created and that is the source of your income.
There is no reason for them to do that. Eventually gom will die out and OGN will survive. And i'm all for that.
All this isn't kespa / esf faults or anyone. It's the pro gaming market wich is waaayyy too tiny and fragile and only financially proeminent in Korea which bring that kind of situation upon the scene.
That's only because there isn't enough money to be made so that everyone can happily share ans sustain itself.
And OGN is of course the most legitimate of all.
Now ofc kespa isn't OGN, but kespa is the emanation of the korean pro gaming scene, also, KESPA was created by korean gov, ESF isn't.
edit : and fxo boss's blog posts are so laughable. Acting like he has so much insight and stuff. Does he even speak korean fluently?
Easy to say that, but it's not universally accepted. LG, Red Bull, etc. are getting behind GOM teams, while Team 8 is still sponsorless. KeSPA is still way ahead in terms of Korean sponsors, but you look globally and you see a lot of success in GOM.
You're right that there is a lot of marketing money in the BW stars. However, you've overlooked one major thing - having the first SC2 tournament be a flop would be a huge embarrassment to KeSPA, it could permanently damage their image and their SC2 brand, as well as set off warning flares to potential sponsors. As long as the strife continues on, both GOM and KeSPA will suffer.
This is kind of like the prisoners' dilemma problem, where individually it makes sense for each to refuse participation in the other's league, but collectively they should be working together and allowing crossover.
FXOBoss' posts are a lot more reliable than your banter by the way (or mine), he actually spends a lot of time in Korea and I presume he has some insight into GOM/KeSPA/Blizzard negotiations, seeing as he is the manager of a major SC2 team.
Dude you have any idea what is the budget of a pro BW team ? Answer is : Millions.
Sc2 teams don't get much cash. Actually they almost don't get any at all....
People don't realise the magnitude of the differences.
And fxo boss doesn't sound very enlightened to me, more like attention whoring.
And you don't understand that everything can change. BW had 2 team disbanded by getting no sponsor, one team disbanded because BW losing its popularity, and one newly-formed team still has no sponsor. Money for team doesn't come in a bag and sit there for the rest of the team's life, money comes in a monthly paycheck which has a certain number which can be changed after evaluation every 3, or 6, or 12 months.
Bad moves pull, are pulling, and will pull sponsors off. Losing 8 players in ro16 of the first ever SC2 OSL is certainly not helping. The millions that teams are having now is based on BW records, nothing else. It simply put faith on BW players to do well on a new stage. That number will change, you can count on it, either go up or go down, depending on how well they perform. So yeah, the finance of teams on both sides doesn't even a matter here. Hypothetically, one year from now, ESF teams still don't have sponsors, and Kespa teams still have sponsors, but if ESF teams keep posting better results than Kespa teams, you bet the sponsored money for Kespa team will get lower and lower.
BW is not a magical place where everything is defied. Everything was, is and will be based on basic economic, finance, marketing principle.
On August 25 2012 00:54 Boonbag wrote: You guys really don't get it. BW pro gaming stars are worth a crapload of marketing / audience money in Korea. These player korean gaming icons were nutured through a 12 years long daily broadcast on TV. Thats ALOT of time and money. Handing them for free to sc2 gom league is like giving away for nothing in return (oh yay ex c team dishwashers gamers !) something you kind of own and created and that is the source of your income.
There is no reason for them to do that. Eventually gom will die out and OGN will survive. And i'm all for that.
All this isn't kespa / esf faults or anyone. It's the pro gaming market wich is waaayyy too tiny and fragile and only financially proeminent in Korea which bring that kind of situation upon the scene.
That's only because there isn't enough money to be made so that everyone can happily share ans sustain itself.
And OGN is of course the most legitimate of all.
Now ofc kespa isn't OGN, but kespa is the emanation of the korean pro gaming scene, also, KESPA was created by korean gov, ESF isn't.
edit : and fxo boss's blog posts are so laughable. Acting like he has so much insight and stuff. Does he even speak korean fluently?
Easy to say that, but it's not universally accepted. LG, Red Bull, etc. are getting behind GOM teams, while Team 8 is still sponsorless. KeSPA is still way ahead in terms of Korean sponsors, but you look globally and you see a lot of success in GOM.
You're right that there is a lot of marketing money in the BW stars. However, you've overlooked one major thing - having the first SC2 tournament be a flop would be a huge embarrassment to KeSPA, it could permanently damage their image and their SC2 brand, as well as set off warning flares to potential sponsors. As long as the strife continues on, both GOM and KeSPA will suffer.
This is kind of like the prisoners' dilemma problem, where individually it makes sense for each to refuse participation in the other's league, but collectively they should be working together and allowing crossover.
FXOBoss' posts are a lot more reliable than your banter by the way (or mine), he actually spends a lot of time in Korea and I presume he has some insight into GOM/KeSPA/Blizzard negotiations, seeing as he is the manager of a major SC2 team.
Dude you have any idea what is the budget of a pro BW team ? Answer is : Millions.
Sc2 teams don't get much cash. Actually they almost don't get any at all....
People don't realise the magnitude of the differences.
And fxo boss doesn't sound very enlightened to me, more like attention whoring.
And you don't understand that everything can change. BW had 2 team disbanded by getting no sponsor, one team disbanded because BW losing its popularity, and one newly-formed team still has no sponsor. Money for team doesn't come in a bag and sit there for the rest of the team's life, money comes in a monthly paycheck which has a certain number which can be changed after evaluation every 3, or 6, or 12 months.
Bad moves pull, are pulling, and will pull sponsors off. Losing 8 players in ro16 of the first ever SC2 OSL is certainly not helping. The millions that teams are having now is based on BW records, nothing else. It simply put faith on BW players to do well on a new stage. That number will change, you can count on it, either go up or go down, depending on how well they perform. So yeah, the finance of teams on both sides doesn't even a matter here. Hypothetically, one year from now, ESF teams still don't have sponsors, and Kespa teams still have sponsors, but if ESF teams keep posting better results than Kespa teams, you bet the sponsored money for Kespa team will get lower and lower.
BW is not a magical place where everything is defied. Everything was, is and will be based on basic economic, finance, marketing principle.
Actually yes it was.
WAS. Past tense, man. It aint anymore, actually it stopped being exactly that after that matchfixing scandal. lol
Could you elaborate for those of us who are unfamiliar with how it was? Thanks.
I guess I could keep it simple so it's easier to follow. BW lasted for over a decade. That definitely defies the shelf-life of a game competitively. It had a decent following or else it would have caved a long time ago and something else would have replaced it sooner.
On August 25 2012 00:54 Boonbag wrote: You guys really don't get it. BW pro gaming stars are worth a crapload of marketing / audience money in Korea. These player korean gaming icons were nutured through a 12 years long daily broadcast on TV. Thats ALOT of time and money. Handing them for free to sc2 gom league is like giving away for nothing in return (oh yay ex c team dishwashers gamers !) something you kind of own and created and that is the source of your income.
There is no reason for them to do that. Eventually gom will die out and OGN will survive. And i'm all for that.
All this isn't kespa / esf faults or anyone. It's the pro gaming market wich is waaayyy too tiny and fragile and only financially proeminent in Korea which bring that kind of situation upon the scene.
That's only because there isn't enough money to be made so that everyone can happily share ans sustain itself.
And OGN is of course the most legitimate of all.
Now ofc kespa isn't OGN, but kespa is the emanation of the korean pro gaming scene, also, KESPA was created by korean gov, ESF isn't.
edit : and fxo boss's blog posts are so laughable. Acting like he has so much insight and stuff. Does he even speak korean fluently?
Easy to say that, but it's not universally accepted. LG, Red Bull, etc. are getting behind GOM teams, while Team 8 is still sponsorless. KeSPA is still way ahead in terms of Korean sponsors, but you look globally and you see a lot of success in GOM.
You're right that there is a lot of marketing money in the BW stars. However, you've overlooked one major thing - having the first SC2 tournament be a flop would be a huge embarrassment to KeSPA, it could permanently damage their image and their SC2 brand, as well as set off warning flares to potential sponsors. As long as the strife continues on, both GOM and KeSPA will suffer.
This is kind of like the prisoners' dilemma problem, where individually it makes sense for each to refuse participation in the other's league, but collectively they should be working together and allowing crossover.
FXOBoss' posts are a lot more reliable than your banter by the way (or mine), he actually spends a lot of time in Korea and I presume he has some insight into GOM/KeSPA/Blizzard negotiations, seeing as he is the manager of a major SC2 team.
Dude you have any idea what is the budget of a pro BW team ? Answer is : Millions.
Sc2 teams don't get much cash. Actually they almost don't get any at all....
People don't realise the magnitude of the differences.
And fxo boss doesn't sound very enlightened to me, more like attention whoring.
And you don't understand that everything can change. BW had 2 team disbanded by getting no sponsor, one team disbanded because BW losing its popularity, and one newly-formed team still has no sponsor. Money for team doesn't come in a bag and sit there for the rest of the team's life, money comes in a monthly paycheck which has a certain number which can be changed after evaluation every 3, or 6, or 12 months.
Bad moves pull, are pulling, and will pull sponsors off. Losing 8 players in ro16 of the first ever SC2 OSL is certainly not helping. The millions that teams are having now is based on BW records, nothing else. It simply put faith on BW players to do well on a new stage. That number will change, you can count on it, either go up or go down, depending on how well they perform. So yeah, the finance of teams on both sides doesn't even a matter here. Hypothetically, one year from now, ESF teams still don't have sponsors, and Kespa teams still have sponsors, but if ESF teams keep posting better results than Kespa teams, you bet the sponsored money for Kespa team will get lower and lower.
BW is not a magical place where everything is defied. Everything was, is and will be based on basic economic, finance, marketing principle.
Actually yes it was.
WAS. Past tense, man. It aint anymore, actually it stopped being exactly that after that matchfixing scandal. lol
Could you elaborate for those of us who are unfamiliar with how it was? Thanks.
I guess I could keep it simple so it's easier to follow. BW lasted for over a decade. That definitely defies the shelf-life of a game competitively. It had a decent following or else it would have caved a long time ago and something else would have replaced it sooner.
So would you say that it had a strong, loyal (if local) base that kept it consistently financially viable during that time?
Could you elaborate for those of us who are unfamiliar with how it was? Thanks.
I guess I could keep it simple so it's easier to follow. BW lasted for over a decade. That definitely defies the shelf-life of a game competitively. It had a decent following or else it would have caved a long time ago and something else would have replaced it sooner.
I know a few more games that could be considered magical then ;P
Could you elaborate for those of us who are unfamiliar with how it was? Thanks.
I guess I could keep it simple so it's easier to follow. BW lasted for over a decade. That definitely defies the shelf-life of a game competitively. It had a decent following or else it would have caved a long time ago and something else would have replaced it sooner.
As a Korean who grew up with the korean BW scene, I guarantee you, if SC2 was released in place of WC3, BW wouldn't have lasted as long. And WC3 could've killed BW anyway if KeSPA folks didn't intervene and pressure OGN/MBC Game to set up favorable timeslots for BW only. BW only lasted this long only because KeSPA willed it, not because WELL you get the idea.
Edit: sorry, forgot which site I was in. Back to playxp, I guess. ㅋㄷㅋㄷㅋㄷ
Could you elaborate for those of us who are unfamiliar with how it was? Thanks.
I guess I could keep it simple so it's easier to follow. BW lasted for over a decade. That definitely defies the shelf-life of a game competitively. It had a decent following or else it would have caved a long time ago and something else would have replaced it sooner.
As a Korean who grew up with the korean BW scene, I guarantee you, if SC2 was released in place of WC3, BW wouldn't have lasted as long. And WC3 could've killed BW anyway if KeSPA folks didn't intervene and pressure OGN/MBC Game to set up favorable timeslots for BW only. BW only lasted this long only because KeSPA willed it, not because the game was good.
Could you elaborate for those of us who are unfamiliar with how it was? Thanks.
I guess I could keep it simple so it's easier to follow. BW lasted for over a decade. That definitely defies the shelf-life of a game competitively. It had a decent following or else it would have caved a long time ago and something else would have replaced it sooner.
As a Korean who grew up with the korean BW scene, I guarantee you, if SC2 was released in place of WC3, BW wouldn't have lasted as long. And WC3 could've killed BW anyway if KeSPA folks didn't intervene and pressure OGN/MBC Game to set up favorable timeslots for BW only. BW only lasted this long only because KeSPA willed it, not because the game was good.
Could you elaborate for those of us who are unfamiliar with how it was? Thanks.
I guess I could keep it simple so it's easier to follow. BW lasted for over a decade. That definitely defies the shelf-life of a game competitively. It had a decent following or else it would have caved a long time ago and something else would have replaced it sooner.
As a Korean who grew up with the korean BW scene, I guarantee you, if SC2 was released in place of WC3, BW wouldn't have lasted as long. And WC3 could've killed BW anyway if KeSPA folks didn't intervene and pressure OGN/MBC Game to set up favorable timeslots for BW only. BW only lasted this long only because KeSPA willed it, not because the game was good.
Could you elaborate for those of us who are unfamiliar with how it was? Thanks.
I guess I could keep it simple so it's easier to follow. BW lasted for over a decade. That definitely defies the shelf-life of a game competitively. It had a decent following or else it would have caved a long time ago and something else would have replaced it sooner.
As a Korean who grew up with the korean BW scene, I guarantee you, if SC2 was released in place of WC3, BW wouldn't have lasted as long. And WC3 could've killed BW anyway if KeSPA folks didn't intervene and pressure OGN/MBC Game to set up favorable timeslots for BW only. BW only lasted this long only because KeSPA willed it, not because the game was good.
EPT
