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On August 25 2012 00:39 OrgCom wrote:
How can anyone still be defending Kespa?
GOM did the right thing. It's not only the GSL. What happened to those supposed players that should have been at MLG?
I'm not sure exactly how accurate this is since I'm only going by another translation, but this is apparently what the Kespa guy said.
The question was "You've been pushing for cooperation with MLG, but why aren't you able to attend MLG 2012 Summer?"
The answer was "Up till two weeks ago, the teams were quite anxious about being able to let their players attend MLG. But at that time, the only team that was definitely not advancing to the playoffs was ACE. All the other 7 teams still had the chance of ending in the top 4, and so many teams were expressing that they were a bit worried about sending their key players overseas to take part in the tournament. As such, we told MLG about the situation then, and they also understood the situation that we were in. Last week, 2 more teams were eliminated, and we were more able to attend MLG. However, the prices of the air tickets had increased threefold, and MLG expressed that it was too much, and as a results, we weren't able to send the players.
Again I emphasize, this is from a translation, and this is from a kespa personnel, so read it with these two points in mind.
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lol, poker game btween Kespa and ESF with 1M chips each
Kespa : raise 500k (holding K10 off suit)
ESF : All in (holding AQ)
Kespa : folds...
Bluff called!!!!
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On August 25 2012 00:42 ohampatu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 00:42 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 25 2012 00:39 OrgCom wrote:
How can anyone still be defending Kespa?
GOM did the right thing. It's not only the GSL. What happened to those supposed players that should have been at MLG? It's like political bipartisanship. Kespa vs GOM. Pick a side and stick to it. its more like there is a small minority of people who like Kespa and think Blizzard tried to kill bw oh how wrong they are, almost funny edit: whilst 90 percent of the community is on ESF's and GOM's side
Kespa is fucked up thats no lie
But its also a fact blizzard wanted to kill bw.
Hopefully this gets worked out and the people in the OSL don't really drop. Cause that would suck
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On August 25 2012 00:56 ohampatu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 00:55 malady wrote:
only the true leauge will win
gom your going down
kespa ftw I would like a person like you to actually explain how that would be good?
was just trying to be fair lol
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On August 25 2012 00:55 malady wrote:
only the true leauge will win
gom your going down
kespa ftw
Yes because Blizz loves KeSPA so much.
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On August 25 2012 00:39 OrgCom wrote:
How can anyone still be defending Kespa?
GOM did the right thing. It's not only the GSL. What happened to those supposed players that should have been at MLG?
Lets see. You have the final games that decide whose team goes to ProLeague play-offs... or you go to some random tournament oversees where you play like 10++ games in 2 days. Not to mention none of your team sponsors are interested in that market.
Ok. To be honest i hope you didn't believe that Kespa best players would come to every MLG. Sadly MLG overlaps the PL timeslot in korean tv since PL games are played from saturday to tuesday.
Some genius at MLG thought the Kespa guys would come when he snaps his fingers.
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On August 25 2012 00:37 Kanuck wrote:
Ill probably look dumb for saying this and not remembering the title of the tournament, but oh well:
Blizzard and GOM didnt "force out" SC:BW, Kespa refused to acknowledge SC2 as a e-sport and played elitism for SC:BW where they had far more power.
There was even a world championship tournament where ever region would send a representing player (this is the tournament of which i cannot remember the title), and Kespa had the rights to select on behalf of Korea, where they selected no reps for SC2 simply because they did not recognize it, it would have taken no effort for them to simply say "lets send the gom champion, he obviously good". Instead they did everything they could to make sure SC2 was suppressed in Korea.
Whats happening now isnt that BW was killed. Its that Kespa no longer ignore the worldwide scene SC2 is getting. In the words of a korean progamer last year "BW is still big in Korea, but SC2 is all over the world".
Kespa moved because it was the right thing to do, and now theyre trying to through weight around to stay in power.
The WCG. Come on now. It's like the grand daddy of them all for SC (even though it's always been a farce), but hell it's always fun to watch which foreigner would beat a Korean. Makes you feel like you made it.
Drop the elitism crap though because that's just personal opinion. I wouldn't want to be forced to play another game after playing another for so long and it was proven to work.
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On August 25 2012 00:53 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 00:50 howLiN wrote:On August 25 2012 00:37 Kanuck wrote:
Ill probably look dumb for saying this and not remembering the title of the tournament, but oh well:
Blizzard and GOM didnt "force out" SC:BW, Kespa refused to acknowledge SC2 as a e-sport and played elitism for SC:BW where they had far more power.
There was even a world championship tournament where ever region would send a representing player (this is the tournament of which i cannot remember the title), and Kespa had the rights to select on behalf of Korea, where they selected no reps for SC2 simply because they did not recognize it, it would have taken no effort for them to simply say "lets send the gom champion, he obviously good". Instead they did everything they could to make sure SC2 was suppressed in Korea.
Whats happening now isnt that BW was killed. Its that Kespa no longer ignore the worldwide scene SC2 is getting. In the words of a korean progamer last year "BW is still big in Korea, but SC2 is all over the world".
Kespa moved because it was the right thing to do, and now theyre trying to through weight around to stay in power. It was ESWC if I recall correctly. No. It was IeSF
Oh you're right, sorry about that.
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On August 25 2012 00:54 Boonbag wrote:
You guys really don't get it. BW pro gaming stars are worth a crapload of marketing / audience money in Korea. These player korean gaming icons were nutured through a 12 years long daily broadcast on TV. Thats ALOT of time and money. Handing them for free to sc2 gom league is like giving away for nothing in return (oh yay ex c team dishwashers gamers !) something you kind of own and created and that is the source of your income.
There is no reason for them to do that. Eventually gom will die out and OGN will survive. And i'm all for that.
All this isn't kespa / esf faults or anyone. It's the pro gaming market wich is waaayyy too tiny and fragile and only financially proeminent in Korea which bring that kind of situation upon the scene.
That's only because there isn't enough money to be made so that everyone can happily share ans sustain itself.
And OGN is of course the most legitimate of all.
Now ofc kespa isn't OGN, but kespa is the emanation of the korean pro gaming scene, also, KESPA was created by korean gov, ESF isn't.
edit : and fxo boss's blog posts are so laughable. Acting like he has so much insight and stuff. Does he even speak korean fluently?
Easy to say that, but it's not universally accepted. LG, Red Bull, etc. are getting behind GOM teams, while Team 8 is still sponsorless. KeSPA is still way ahead in terms of Korean sponsors, but you look globally and you see a lot of success in GOM.
You're right that there is a lot of marketing money in the BW stars. However, you've overlooked one major thing - having the first SC2 tournament be a flop would be a huge embarrassment to KeSPA, it could permanently damage their image and their SC2 brand, as well as set off warning flares to potential sponsors. As long as the strife continues on, both GOM and KeSPA will suffer.
This is kind of like the prisoners' dilemma problem, where individually it makes sense for each to refuse participation in the other's league, but collectively they should be working together and allowing crossover.
FXOBoss' posts are a lot more reliable than your banter by the way (or mine), he actually spends a lot of time in Korea and I presume he has some insight into GOM/KeSPA/Blizzard negotiations, seeing as he is the manager of a major SC2 team.
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People don't understand what pro gaming is in Korea.
It's not gaming in huge LANS. It's a real sport there.
No offense to MLGs, IPLs, etc... what they do is really awesome.
But its light years behind what Korean pro gaming is.
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On August 25 2012 00:54 Boonbag wrote:
You guys really don't get it. BW pro gaming stars are worth a crapload of marketing / audience money in Korea. These player korean gaming icons were nutured through a 12 years long daily broadcast on TV. Thats ALOT of time and money. Handing them for free to sc2 gom league is like giving away for nothing in return (oh yay ex c team dishwashers gamers !) something you kind of own and created and that is the source of your income.
There is no reason for them to do that. Eventually gom will die out and OGN will survive. And i'm all for that.
All this isn't kespa / esf faults or anyone. It's the pro gaming market wich is waaayyy too tiny and fragile and only financially proeminent in Korea which bring that kind of situation upon the scene.
That's only because there isn't enough money to be made so that everyone can happily share ans sustain itself.
And OGN is of course the most legitimate of all.
Now ofc kespa isn't OGN, but kespa is the emanation of the korean pro gaming scene, also, KESPA was created by korean gov, ESF isn't.
edit : and fxo boss's blog posts are so laughable. Acting like he has so much insight and stuff. Does he even speak korean fluently?
lol, so you are for the OGN that doesn't even have an official international stream? Honestly, I don't care much who 'wins' between GOM and Kespa. But I just want Korea SC2 to flourish BOTH in Korea (so they satisfy the big Korean sponsors like SKT, KT, Woongjin, etc) as well as being able to expand in the foreigen markets.
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On August 25 2012 00:55 malady wrote:
only the true leauge will win
gom your going down
kespa ftw
This isn't BW v SC2 anymore, you don't need to attach yourself to a league.
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On August 25 2012 00:29 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 00:23 maybenexttime wrote:On August 25 2012 00:17 Athos wrote:
God I remember when Kespa's pressure brought down the first GOM Starleague. I really hate Kespa and think GOM actually has the upper hand here. The GSL players actually have more value than the Kepsa players because they have proved themselves as the best SCII players, and we're yet to see that really from the Kespa players. This kind of gridlock may suck, but its a necessary move coming from GOM. And I remember when gom decided to become blizzard's bitch and helped them destroy BW. Do you remember how they blackmailed KeSPA to give up ProLeague's primetime slots in favour of gsl simply because nobody wanted to watch that over ProLeague? I'm siding with KeSPA because they stuck with BW until blizzard made it unsustainable. Screw blizzard and gom. Uhm, that was a reaction to the behavior of Kespa, which blizzard did not approve. GomTV was given an opportunity which they took. I can't believe there are people with opinions such as yours. Gom and Blizzard destroyed BW? Is it possible to be more biased? Kespa forced Gom out of the BW scene.
Gomtv was given an opportunity while KeSPA was being blackmailed by blizzard (100% rights to any produced content would go to blizzard, contracts with progamers that override their contracts with KeSPA teams, final say in terms of OGN/MBCGame schedule, etc.). Gomtv eagerly joined the blackmailing because that was an opportunity for them. They were given the opportunity because they agreed to becme blizzard's bitch, they had nothing else to give (no valuable content, no teams, etc.).
They only produced BW content to get some ground before transitioning to SC2.
On August 25 2012 00:32 naastyOne wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 00:23 maybenexttime wrote:On August 25 2012 00:17 Athos wrote:
God I remember when Kespa's pressure brought down the first GOM Starleague. I really hate Kespa and think GOM actually has the upper hand here. The GSL players actually have more value than the Kepsa players because they have proved themselves as the best SCII players, and we're yet to see that really from the Kespa players. This kind of gridlock may suck, but its a necessary move coming from GOM. And I remember when gom decided to become blizzard's bitch and helped them destroy BW. Do you remember how they blackmailed KeSPA to give up ProLeague's primetime slots in favour of gsl simply because nobody wanted to watch that over ProLeague? I'm siding with KeSPA because they stuck with BW until blizzard made it unsustainable. Screw blizzard and gom. Blizard destroyed BW with SC2? What a joke you are .
With SC2? Don't be silly... LOL No, they destroyed BW with their lawsuit and blackmail.
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On August 25 2012 00:58 Frankon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 00:39 OrgCom wrote:
How can anyone still be defending Kespa?
GOM did the right thing. It's not only the GSL. What happened to those supposed players that should have been at MLG? Lets see. You have the final games that decide whose team goes to ProLeague play-offs... or you go to some random tournament oversees where you play like 10++ games in 2 days. Not to mention none of your team sponsors are interested in that market. Ok. To be honest i hope you didn't believe that Kespa best players would come to every MLG. Sadly MLG overlaps the PL timeslot in korean tv since PL games are played from saturday to tuesday. Some genius at MLG thought the Kespa guys would come when he snaps his fingers.
Indeed, what comes first when it comes to KeSPA? Keeping their sponsors happy and guess what? They are the sponsors.
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On August 25 2012 00:59 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 00:54 Boonbag wrote:
You guys really don't get it. BW pro gaming stars are worth a crapload of marketing / audience money in Korea. These player korean gaming icons were nutured through a 12 years long daily broadcast on TV. Thats ALOT of time and money. Handing them for free to sc2 gom league is like giving away for nothing in return (oh yay ex c team dishwashers gamers !) something you kind of own and created and that is the source of your income.
There is no reason for them to do that. Eventually gom will die out and OGN will survive. And i'm all for that.
All this isn't kespa / esf faults or anyone. It's the pro gaming market wich is waaayyy too tiny and fragile and only financially proeminent in Korea which bring that kind of situation upon the scene.
That's only because there isn't enough money to be made so that everyone can happily share ans sustain itself.
And OGN is of course the most legitimate of all.
Now ofc kespa isn't OGN, but kespa is the emanation of the korean pro gaming scene, also, KESPA was created by korean gov, ESF isn't.
edit : and fxo boss's blog posts are so laughable. Acting like he has so much insight and stuff. Does he even speak korean fluently? Easy to say that, but it's not universally accepted. LG, Red Bull, etc. are getting behind GOM teams, while Team 8 is still sponsorless. KeSPA is still way ahead in terms of Korean sponsors, but you look globally and you see a lot of success in GOM. You're right that there is a lot of marketing money in the BW stars. However, you've overlooked one major thing - having the first SC2 tournament be a flop would be a huge embarrassment to KeSPA, it could permanently damage their image and their SC2 brand, as well as set off warning flares to potential sponsors. As long as the strife continues on, both GOM and KeSPA will suffer. This is kind of like the prisoners' dilemma problem, where individually it makes sense for each to refuse participation in the other's league, but collectively they should be working together and allowing crossover. FXOBoss' posts are a lot more reliable than your banter by the way (or mine), he actually spends a lot of time in Korea and I presume he has some insight into GOM/KeSPA/Blizzard negotiations, seeing as he is the manager of a major SC2 team.
Dude you have any idea what is the budget of a pro BW team ? Answer is : Millions.
Sc2 teams don't get much cash. Actually they almost don't get any at all....
People don't realise the magnitude of the differences.
And fxo boss doesn't sound very enlightened to me, more like attention whoring.
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YAY ESF, GJ....f u kespa
Thank you for looking out for GOM and us foreign fans ESF
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Who are these dudes who run Kespa?! Sort of reminds me of Occupy Wall Street. These greedy dudes need to know its not all about them.
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On August 25 2012 01:00 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 00:54 Boonbag wrote:
You guys really don't get it. BW pro gaming stars are worth a crapload of marketing / audience money in Korea. These player korean gaming icons were nutured through a 12 years long daily broadcast on TV. Thats ALOT of time and money. Handing them for free to sc2 gom league is like giving away for nothing in return (oh yay ex c team dishwashers gamers !) something you kind of own and created and that is the source of your income.
There is no reason for them to do that. Eventually gom will die out and OGN will survive. And i'm all for that.
All this isn't kespa / esf faults or anyone. It's the pro gaming market wich is waaayyy too tiny and fragile and only financially proeminent in Korea which bring that kind of situation upon the scene.
That's only because there isn't enough money to be made so that everyone can happily share ans sustain itself.
And OGN is of course the most legitimate of all.
Now ofc kespa isn't OGN, but kespa is the emanation of the korean pro gaming scene, also, KESPA was created by korean gov, ESF isn't.
edit : and fxo boss's blog posts are so laughable. Acting like he has so much insight and stuff. Does he even speak korean fluently? lol, so you are for the OGN that doesn't even have an official international stream? Honestly, I don't care much who 'wins' between GOM and Kespa. But I just want Korea SC2 to flourish BOTH in Korea (so they satisfy the big Korean sponsors like SKT, KT, Woongjin, etc) as well as being able to expand in the foreigen markets.
If it doesn't help the sponsors, which KeSPA are then there is very little reason for them to do it.
A lot of these companies as another guy pointed out aren't International businesses. They have very little reason to expand. It won't stop them from hosting finals and other special events in other countries as they've shown in the past, but it's going minimal until there are more International brands associated with the organization.
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On August 25 2012 00:39 OrgCom wrote:
How can anyone still be defending Kespa?
GOM did the right thing. It's not only the GSL. What happened to those supposed players that should have been at MLG?
The same reason why Boxer went back - because Kespa knows how to run an esport association.
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EPT
