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On August 25 2012 00:17 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 00:07 lightsentry wrote:On August 25 2012 00:04 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 25 2012 00:01 speedphlux wrote:
Well, all in all - KeSPA is the root of all evil around eSports.
Remeber those facts :
- Deleting NaDa's history around SC:BW, when he transitioned into SC2, followed by a bunch of well-payed articles about him being greedy and following the money, when in reality SC2 was just starting to crawl its way up and there was hardly any money in it. At all.
- Paying articles to critique SC2, stalling the introduction of the game in Korea by a lot. Also getting in that huge court-case vs Blizzard about intelectual property, which was later settled.
An now we're adding this shit.
Please, if anyone still believes that KeSPA will allow their players to participate in GSL Season 5, please re-think. That will not happen. And you will see it rather shortly, when they screw up with MLG's group arrangements (MLG - KeSPA agreement on KeSPA players seeds). I am honestly so pissed at them, that even if what ESF did was a douche-baggery move, I would still side with them on this one and would not participate in the next OS2L.
No idea how Blizzard could fix this shit either. KeSPA just needs a really hard kick in the balls and it looks like they're gonig to get it. I just hope it hurts them enough to realize they can't boss people around and fuck with everyone else. WTF? Source? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=158344I think this thread was the one that explained it back when it happened. I read the English half since I can't read Korean. Kespa claims that Nada's missing records is due to a database error (conspiracy  ). How about the second half of the accusation that Kespa paid for articles to smear Nada? Is there a source on that?
I don't really know much about the articles, you would probably have to be korean to read much about that honestly. The only thing I really remember is pulling nada from a showmatch in IEM vs TLO. It seemed fairly obvious that at the beginning kespa really disliked sc2 a whole lot.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=168895
I guess this explains some things? Sorry, but I don't speak korean so I can't really tell a whole lot other than linking threads.
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Ahah, let's take some popcorns and see how this ends. Mind games going on between Kespa and ESF :D
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On August 25 2012 00:01 speedphlux wrote:
Well, all in all - KeSPA is the root of all evil around eSports.
Remeber those facts :
- Deleting NaDa's history around SC:BW, when he transitioned into SC2, followed by a bunch of well-payed articles about him being greedy and following the money, when in reality SC2 was just starting to crawl its way up and there was hardly any money in it. At all.
- Paying articles to critique SC2, stalling the introduction of the game in Korea by a lot. Also getting in that huge court-case vs Blizzard about intelectual property, which was later settled.
An now we're adding this shit.
Please, if anyone still believes that KeSPA will allow their players to participate in GSL Season 5, please re-think. That will not happen. And you will see it rather shortly, when they screw up with MLG's group arrangements (MLG - KeSPA agreement on KeSPA players seeds). I am honestly so pissed at them, that even if what ESF did was a douche-baggery move, I would still side with them on this one and would not participate in the next OS2L.
No idea how Blizzard could fix this shit either. KeSPA just needs a really hard kick in the balls and it looks like they're gonig to get it. I just hope it hurts them enough to realize they can't boss people around and fuck with everyone else.
Maybe I'm missing something, so don't yell at me if I'm mistaking. But wasn't it obvious with the last playday of proleague that Kespa players couldn't be attending to MLG ?
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On August 24 2012 22:20 OpticalShot wrote:Just going to drop this here, already posted in the other thread but hopefully more people will be informed: Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:09 OpticalShot wrote:Jeez, now will all of you put your pitchforks down? As I stated in the earlier thread (of the same issue) it was just a business decision due to lack of detailed schedule planning (source: Fomos Source, Not Allowed to Translate) and they clearly stated, at least publicly, that they're not trying to create a feud with GOM or the ESF (source: Another Fomos Source, Not Allowed to Translate). Both of these Fomos articles popped up overnight or something, I didn't see them yesterday. *edit: I'll add some details from the above two articles, in case you're curious: + Show Spoiler +First article:
- KeSPA apologizes for creating this mess
- KeSPA states that there were no official discussion on schedules and dates
- KeSPA states that they had no idea GSL were willing to give out seeds to KeSPA players
- They're not trying to create a divide, why else would they have accepted the cross-matches in the past then?
- They're now discussing the possibility of giving the same "progamer license" to ESF players, and accordingly:
- They're now discussing the possibility of (finally) recognizing GSL as an "official tournament"
- KeSPA states that the above two points have been made known to GOM and they're internally discussing it too
Second article:
- much of the same things, more details
- in the past 4 months, KeSPA sent players to WCS, Cross-Matches, WCG Korea, and MLG Invitations on top of the OSL and PL - all this was possible due to months of planning ahead
- in the upcoming month (September) KeSPA players are already booked for the PL games + playoffs, OSL, continuation of WCG Korea, WCS, and MLG.
- above is why KeSPA thought participating in GSL S4 would be too much of a push
- KeSPA promises to act and plan ahead and communicate better with teams and players in the future (T/N: LOL yeah right, like I haven't heard that one before) As linked many times, according to This DES Article, KeSPA stated on the 24th (today) that they will send eligible players from ALL teams (stated explicitly in the article as "all teams") to participate in the next GSL (next as in Season 5). They also added that they don't want any more tension in the scene, but that's most likely a PR statement lol.
"Discussing the possibility of progamer licenses/recognizing GSL as an official tournament" I feel like this is slightly misrepresented in translation, but I can't help but sarcastically remark how merciful KeSPA is.
I'm not sure why everyone thinks this is resolved. They said nothing about GSL season 5 in their previous statement. Nothing has changed other then that they still won't participate in GSL season 4 but they promise they'll uphold their original already made promise to play in season 5 as they were going to anyways. Then when season 5 rolls around something will come up then too.
It's sad because two team organizations are battling it out and the leagues/players/viewers lose regardless of the outcome.
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Ughhh and everyone who supported kespa in the blizz vs kespa battle is looking stupid now. Kespa has been pulling this shit forever and now its finally showing its ugly head. I'm glad esf is standing up to them and helping gom out but I feel bad for the kespa players as I'm sure they'd be fine with just playing....
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Here's the thing and it's very important so I hope it is well understood by the people involved. The only leverage the ESF players and GSL have in this dispute is that Kespa teams and players ARE NOT THE BEST SC2 PLAYERS........ yet. If ESF players compete against Kespa players and lose their only leverage is gone. ESF better be damn sure they can win any tournament they play against Kespa players until they have rock solid agreements with massive penalties for default. This needs to be nipped in the bud right now or gom and esf are going to get gg'd. Kespa has to prove their players are the best in the world at sc2 before they can tell everyone to fuck off. My guess is they will the minute that happens.
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This is unfortunate to say the least T.T
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On August 25 2012 00:23 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 00:17 Athos wrote:
God I remember when Kespa's pressure brought down the first GOM Starleague. I really hate Kespa and think GOM actually has the upper hand here. The GSL players actually have more value than the Kepsa players because they have proved themselves as the best SCII players, and we're yet to see that really from the Kespa players. This kind of gridlock may suck, but its a necessary move coming from GOM. And I remember when gom decided to become blizzard's bitch and helped them destroy BW. Do you remember how they blackmailed KeSPA to give up ProLeague's primetime slots in favour of gsl simply because nobody wanted to watch that over ProLeague? I'm siding with KeSPA because they stuck with BW until blizzard made it unsustainable. Screw blizzard and gom.
Blizard destroyed BW with SC2? What a joke you are .
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On August 25 2012 00:29 Kazeyonoma wrote:
Ughhh and everyone who supported kespa in the blizz vs kespa battle is looking stupid now. Kespa has been pulling this shit forever and now its finally showing its ugly head. I'm glad esf is standing up to them and helping gom out but I feel bad for the kespa players as I'm sure they'd be fine with just playing....
KeSPA vs Blizzard was about IP rights and derivative products. Not even remotely related to th current situation. Try again.
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Will be interesting to watch this situation play out in a public forum with all the pros and community members that will be attending MLG this weekend...... Should make for a very discussed weekend/ topic!
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On August 25 2012 00:28 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:20 OpticalShot wrote:Just going to drop this here, already posted in the other thread but hopefully more people will be informed: On August 24 2012 22:09 OpticalShot wrote:Jeez, now will all of you put your pitchforks down? As I stated in the earlier thread (of the same issue) it was just a business decision due to lack of detailed schedule planning (source: Fomos Source, Not Allowed to Translate) and they clearly stated, at least publicly, that they're not trying to create a feud with GOM or the ESF (source: Another Fomos Source, Not Allowed to Translate). Both of these Fomos articles popped up overnight or something, I didn't see them yesterday. *edit: I'll add some details from the above two articles, in case you're curious: + Show Spoiler +First article:
- KeSPA apologizes for creating this mess
- KeSPA states that there were no official discussion on schedules and dates
- KeSPA states that they had no idea GSL were willing to give out seeds to KeSPA players
- They're not trying to create a divide, why else would they have accepted the cross-matches in the past then?
- They're now discussing the possibility of giving the same "progamer license" to ESF players, and accordingly:
- They're now discussing the possibility of (finally) recognizing GSL as an "official tournament"
- KeSPA states that the above two points have been made known to GOM and they're internally discussing it too
Second article:
- much of the same things, more details
- in the past 4 months, KeSPA sent players to WCS, Cross-Matches, WCG Korea, and MLG Invitations on top of the OSL and PL - all this was possible due to months of planning ahead
- in the upcoming month (September) KeSPA players are already booked for the PL games + playoffs, OSL, continuation of WCG Korea, WCS, and MLG.
- above is why KeSPA thought participating in GSL S4 would be too much of a push
- KeSPA promises to act and plan ahead and communicate better with teams and players in the future (T/N: LOL yeah right, like I haven't heard that one before) As linked many times, according to This DES Article, KeSPA stated on the 24th (today) that they will send eligible players from ALL teams (stated explicitly in the article as "all teams") to participate in the next GSL (next as in Season 5). They also added that they don't want any more tension in the scene, but that's most likely a PR statement lol. "Discussing the possibility of progamer licenses/recognizing GSL as an official tournament" I feel like this is slightly misrepresented in translation, but I can't help but sarcastically remark how merciful KeSPA is. I'm not sure why everyone thinks this is resolved. They said nothing about GSL season 5 in their previous statement. Nothing has changed other then that they still won't participate in GSL season 4 but they promise they'll uphold their original already made promise to play in season 5 as they were going to anyways. Then when season 5 rolls around something will come up then too. It's sad because two team organizations are battling it out and the leagues/players/viewers lose regardless of the outcome.
Well, if in the end we can have a less authoritarian players/teams association to replace Kespa, I think it would benefits everybody.
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On August 25 2012 00:27 31415926535 wrote:
Ahah, let's take some popcorns and see how this ends. Mind games going on between Kespa and ESF :D
better grab a six pack and watch the universe end
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On August 25 2012 00:27 Gevna wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 00:01 speedphlux wrote:
Well, all in all - KeSPA is the root of all evil around eSports.
Remeber those facts :
- Deleting NaDa's history around SC:BW, when he transitioned into SC2, followed by a bunch of well-payed articles about him being greedy and following the money, when in reality SC2 was just starting to crawl its way up and there was hardly any money in it. At all.
- Paying articles to critique SC2, stalling the introduction of the game in Korea by a lot. Also getting in that huge court-case vs Blizzard about intelectual property, which was later settled.
An now we're adding this shit.
Please, if anyone still believes that KeSPA will allow their players to participate in GSL Season 5, please re-think. That will not happen. And you will see it rather shortly, when they screw up with MLG's group arrangements (MLG - KeSPA agreement on KeSPA players seeds). I am honestly so pissed at them, that even if what ESF did was a douche-baggery move, I would still side with them on this one and would not participate in the next OS2L.
No idea how Blizzard could fix this shit either. KeSPA just needs a really hard kick in the balls and it looks like they're gonig to get it. I just hope it hurts them enough to realize they can't boss people around and fuck with everyone else. Maybe I'm missing something, so don't yell at me if I'm mistaking. But wasn't it obvious with the last playday of proleague that Kespa players couldn't be attending to MLG ?
Nah, I'm not gonna be mad at you for stating the obvious, but wasn't that agreement signed before the Proleague even began ?
I'm pretty sure if they had it taken it fullheartedly, they could've made slight adjustments to their schedule so that it doesn't mixes up with the MLG, which is only a 3 day tournament. Give or take another 4 days lost in travel and sleep, and a single week doesn't seems like much time to loose.
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I think this is a really good move. Hope Kespa understand this wake up call.
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On August 25 2012 00:32 naastyOne wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 00:23 maybenexttime wrote:On August 25 2012 00:17 Athos wrote:
God I remember when Kespa's pressure brought down the first GOM Starleague. I really hate Kespa and think GOM actually has the upper hand here. The GSL players actually have more value than the Kepsa players because they have proved themselves as the best SCII players, and we're yet to see that really from the Kespa players. This kind of gridlock may suck, but its a necessary move coming from GOM. And I remember when gom decided to become blizzard's bitch and helped them destroy BW. Do you remember how they blackmailed KeSPA to give up ProLeague's primetime slots in favour of gsl simply because nobody wanted to watch that over ProLeague? I'm siding with KeSPA because they stuck with BW until blizzard made it unsustainable. Screw blizzard and gom. Blizard destroyed BW with SC2? What a joke you are .
No he's pretty much right, Blizzard's original position against Kespa was so ridiculously unfair and anti-BW it was laughable, hence the 2 years of deadlock between the two parties
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On August 25 2012 00:33 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 00:32 naastyOne wrote:On August 25 2012 00:23 maybenexttime wrote:On August 25 2012 00:17 Athos wrote:
God I remember when Kespa's pressure brought down the first GOM Starleague. I really hate Kespa and think GOM actually has the upper hand here. The GSL players actually have more value than the Kepsa players because they have proved themselves as the best SCII players, and we're yet to see that really from the Kespa players. This kind of gridlock may suck, but its a necessary move coming from GOM. And I remember when gom decided to become blizzard's bitch and helped them destroy BW. Do you remember how they blackmailed KeSPA to give up ProLeague's primetime slots in favour of gsl simply because nobody wanted to watch that over ProLeague? I'm siding with KeSPA because they stuck with BW until blizzard made it unsustainable. Screw blizzard and gom. Blizard destroyed BW with SC2? What a joke you are . No he's pretty much right, Blizzard's original position against Kespa was so ridiculously unfair and anti-BW it was laughable, hence the 2 years of deadlock between the two parties
Upwards of 95% of respondents in this thread did not follow the lawsuit. Going to get a lot of those type of replies.
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On August 25 2012 00:33 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 00:32 naastyOne wrote:On August 25 2012 00:23 maybenexttime wrote:On August 25 2012 00:17 Athos wrote:
God I remember when Kespa's pressure brought down the first GOM Starleague. I really hate Kespa and think GOM actually has the upper hand here. The GSL players actually have more value than the Kepsa players because they have proved themselves as the best SCII players, and we're yet to see that really from the Kespa players. This kind of gridlock may suck, but its a necessary move coming from GOM. And I remember when gom decided to become blizzard's bitch and helped them destroy BW. Do you remember how they blackmailed KeSPA to give up ProLeague's primetime slots in favour of gsl simply because nobody wanted to watch that over ProLeague? I'm siding with KeSPA because they stuck with BW until blizzard made it unsustainable. Screw blizzard and gom. Blizard destroyed BW with SC2? What a joke you are . No he's pretty much right, Blizzard's original position against Kespa was so ridiculously unfair and anti-BW it was laughable, hence the 2 years of deadlock between the two parties
true blizz fudged and tried to end bw, but not because they hated bw. Because Kespa was playing their game illegally and not compensating blizz.
kespa kicked gom out of bw as well fyi
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There really shouldn't be a fight over this hill. While both sides are throwing down stakes like land grabbers from Tolstoy's "How Much Land Does a Man Need?" DotA2, LoL, and others--the real elephants in the room anymore--may completely overshadow our little mound of graves.
Quoting another classic, "Do I believe the obscenities I am witnessing?"
+ Show Spoiler +
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On August 25 2012 00:23 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 00:17 Athos wrote:
God I remember when Kespa's pressure brought down the first GOM Starleague. I really hate Kespa and think GOM actually has the upper hand here. The GSL players actually have more value than the Kepsa players because they have proved themselves as the best SCII players, and we're yet to see that really from the Kespa players. This kind of gridlock may suck, but its a necessary move coming from GOM. And I remember when gom decided to become blizzard's bitch and helped them destroy BW. Do you remember how they blackmailed KeSPA to give up ProLeague's primetime slots in favour of gsl simply because nobody wanted to watch that over ProLeague? I'm siding with KeSPA because they stuck with BW until blizzard made it unsustainable. Screw blizzard and gom.
Blizzard made BW unsustainable? You gotta be kidding yourself. There's a reason why 3 teams folded in the same season, and the new joint team is still without a sponsor.
There weren't any new sponsors coming into BW. Not sure how Blizzard plays into this at all.
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EPT
