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On August 23 2012 23:53 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:45 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. Blizzard is counting on KeSPA to give the game more exposure in Korea. Their options are limited whereas KeSPA. Well, they have plenty of options. Blisard can deny them the right to run any tournament. Kespa can still do whatever BS they want, just without any broadcasting and such, and hence, zero profits. On August 23 2012 23:31 Forikorder wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. they dont have to argue anything, if they press a button KeSPA cant paly SC2 thats a fact Not just that. Considering Korea is, supposed to take US IP pretty seriously, the entire idea that goverment institution can infringe copyright just like that, wwould do terrible damage to Korea`s international relations. I'm sorry but you guys don't have a clue on what you're talking about and missed what I said entirely. KeSPA doesn't need Blizzard. Even if Blizzard could stop them from playing SC2. KeSPA would just bank on their other properties and give SC2 the backdoor. As we've seen before Blizzard believes they need KeSPA to pick up the slack in the Korean market. This is no different from the IP rights from before. In summary, even if Blizzard won the argument and no SC2 for KeSPA they would push their other tournaments and SC2 would hit another big wall in Korea. Not good for business. That's not to say the big guns retire/withdraw from their KeSPA teams and join other teams in SC2. The thing is you still lose exposure and the other developers along with KeSPA would do everything in their power to block SC2.
Without Blizzard, KeSPA has LoL.
Without KeSPA, Blizzard has GOM and uhm, the rest of the world.
I think both would be fine, I just think it would be a little awkward for KeSPA to force their players to transition to another game, after they just forced them to transition to SC2.
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On August 23 2012 23:45 viasacra89 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 18:03 Noam wrote:
KeSPA and OGN are not stupid, GOM is their competitor and they don't want to give them their greatest asset - the broodwar stars.
I fear the day where OSL and GSL are on at the same time and I'll need to decide which one to watch.
OSL will be free 720p (most likely?) with Moletrap & DoA and the best KeSPA and best GOM players.
GSL will be free 240p with Tastosis and Wolfdor and the best GOM players.
Not an easy decision. With Moletrap and DoA casting, I think it'll be much easier to choose GSL.
I usually don't have the sound on when watching in either case and yeah man. For SC2 you really need the 1080+ x-x
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On August 23 2012 23:59 Zane wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:53 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:45 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. Blizzard is counting on KeSPA to give the game more exposure in Korea. Their options are limited whereas KeSPA. Well, they have plenty of options. Blisard can deny them the right to run any tournament. Kespa can still do whatever BS they want, just without any broadcasting and such, and hence, zero profits. On August 23 2012 23:31 Forikorder wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. they dont have to argue anything, if they press a button KeSPA cant paly SC2 thats a fact Not just that. Considering Korea is, supposed to take US IP pretty seriously, the entire idea that goverment institution can infringe copyright just like that, wwould do terrible damage to Korea`s international relations. I'm sorry but you guys don't have a clue on what you're talking about and missed what I said entirely. KeSPA doesn't need Blizzard. Even if Blizzard could stop them from playing SC2. KeSPA would just bank on their other properties and give SC2 the backdoor. As we've seen before Blizzard believes they need KeSPA to pick up the slack in the Korean market. This is no different from the IP rights from before. In summary, even if Blizzard won the argument and no SC2 for KeSPA they would push their other tournaments and SC2 would hit another big wall in Korea. Not good for business. That's not to say the big guns retire/withdraw from their KeSPA teams and join other teams in SC2. The thing is you still lose exposure and the other developers along with KeSPA would do everything in their power to block SC2. Without Blizzard, KeSPA has LoL. Without KeSPA, Blizzard has GOM and uhm, the rest of the world. I think both would be fine, I just think it would be a little awkward for KeSPA to force their players to transition to another game, after they just forced them to transition to SC2.
More like a fire sale on the Kespa players after Kespa goes into LoL instead of SC2.
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On August 23 2012 23:53 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:45 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. Blizzard is counting on KeSPA to give the game more exposure in Korea. Their options are limited whereas KeSPA. Well, they have plenty of options. Blisard can deny them the right to run any tournament. Kespa can still do whatever BS they want, just without any broadcasting and such, and hence, zero profits. On August 23 2012 23:31 Forikorder wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. they dont have to argue anything, if they press a button KeSPA cant paly SC2 thats a fact Not just that. Considering Korea is, supposed to take US IP pretty seriously, the entire idea that goverment institution can infringe copyright just like that, wwould do terrible damage to Korea`s international relations. I'm sorry but you guys don't have a clue on what you're talking about and missed what I said entirely. KeSPA doesn't need Blizzard. Even if Blizzard could stop them from playing SC2. KeSPA would just bank on their other properties and give SC2 the backdoor. As we've seen before Blizzard believes they need KeSPA to pick up the slack in the Korean market. This is no different from the IP rights from before. In summary, even if Blizzard won the argument and no SC2 for KeSPA they would push their other tournaments and SC2 would hit another big wall in Korea. Not good for business. That's not to say the big guns retire/withdraw from their KeSPA teams and join other teams in SC2. The thing is you still lose exposure and the other developers along with KeSPA would do everything in their power to block SC2.
Blizzard doesn't need Kespa either, the sc2 scene has been growing without them and will be without them. It's just that with Kespa involved it will probably go a lot faster like you said.
And really Kespa isn't going to pull out now when they've invested so much money and effort into it already you don't just switch to a different game like it's nothing.
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On August 23 2012 23:49 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:33 ShadeR wrote:
Are people seriously inferring that Blizzard can MAKE them play??? LOL No but according to the TOS Blizzard can take away their ability to play SC2 if need be. IE, your players won't enter our tournament? They get blacklisted. It probably won't come to that, blizzard will likely say they're monitoring the situation carefully but if they don't enter te GSL soon they could take discretionary measures.
You don't see anything wrong with. "Hey if you don't play in this tourney you get punished" Blizzard's vice grip around your balls is incredible. I admire this achievement.
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On August 23 2012 23:59 Zane wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:53 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:45 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. Blizzard is counting on KeSPA to give the game more exposure in Korea. Their options are limited whereas KeSPA. Well, they have plenty of options. Blisard can deny them the right to run any tournament. Kespa can still do whatever BS they want, just without any broadcasting and such, and hence, zero profits. On August 23 2012 23:31 Forikorder wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. they dont have to argue anything, if they press a button KeSPA cant paly SC2 thats a fact Not just that. Considering Korea is, supposed to take US IP pretty seriously, the entire idea that goverment institution can infringe copyright just like that, wwould do terrible damage to Korea`s international relations. I'm sorry but you guys don't have a clue on what you're talking about and missed what I said entirely. KeSPA doesn't need Blizzard. Even if Blizzard could stop them from playing SC2. KeSPA would just bank on their other properties and give SC2 the backdoor. As we've seen before Blizzard believes they need KeSPA to pick up the slack in the Korean market. This is no different from the IP rights from before. In summary, even if Blizzard won the argument and no SC2 for KeSPA they would push their other tournaments and SC2 would hit another big wall in Korea. Not good for business. That's not to say the big guns retire/withdraw from their KeSPA teams and join other teams in SC2. The thing is you still lose exposure and the other developers along with KeSPA would do everything in their power to block SC2. Without Blizzard, KeSPA has LoL. Without Kespa, Blizzard has GOM and uhm, the rest of the world. I think both would be fine, I just think it would be a little awkward for KeSPA to force their players to transition to another game, after they just forced them to transition to SC2.
they cannot force them. Ofc those players switching over to Fed/International teams would get shunned like we've seen before but the thing is you want to keep your friends close and your enemies even closer.
KeSPA has a lot of utility and a lot of influence in the Korean scene. Blizzard realizes that and that's why they want to do their best to work with them.
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On August 23 2012 23:51 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:41 Talin wrote:On August 23 2012 23:27 MVTaylor wrote:
@Salazarz On my phone so I can't quote, message too large and no scroll ability in reply box.
The essence though is that it isn't kespa teams limiting themselves it's kespa denying players the right to enter to strengthen leagues they have more control over, all be it with some really awful reasoning given instead. The problem with this line of reasoning is that it assumes that individual kespa players normally get to decide such things for themselves, and are suddenly being denied the right to do that. Whereas it's actually normal for the teams (and Kespa as the association of teams+broadcasters) to make such decisions, not the players. A Kespa team simply won't tell a player to go do whatever he wants and play in any league he wants. That's NEVER going to happen. In order for Kespa players to be able to play in the GSL, the team has to come to the players and say "ok, GSL is now in our schedule, here's the schedule by which we're going to work the next month" or something of the sort. I'm not saying that the Kespa's interests as a team association didn't play a role in the decision, but there are definitely more practical issues as well. The important thing to realize is that these players actually belong to the teams and the way they spend their time and what they spend it on is also organized by the teams. KeSPA internal interests have everything to do with it. The "players already have enough to do" is total shit. There's less Proleague, less OSL, no MSL. It would be in GOM's best interest to schedule in such a way that the KeSPA players' schedules aren't conflicted with anything they already do. If MC and others can travel to three different continents in two weeks then KeSPA players can devote two hours a week to play in another tournament.
There's also two games to train (for 50% of the players), and a new game to transition to, AND it's the most important period of the Proleague season. While the matchdays might not conflict, the overall practice time still does.
Measuring Kespa players' schedules against MC's schedule is ridiculous. They're never going to accept that kind of schedule, it's simply incompatible to how the teams function. Besides that, I'm pretty sure it will become apparent fairly soon that their practice regimen is superior and it produces and develops better players.
It would be silly for them to willingly adapt to the inferior environment when it comes to structure and organization. It's much more likely to turn out the other way around.
On August 23 2012 23:51 setzer wrote:
And it has already been established that players and coaches want their players to practice against GSL players as they believe they best improve doing that. This is nothing but a political decision.
They can practice against GSL player outside of a tournament environment. Other than that, I wouldn't read too much into the interview statements.
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this isn't really news at all. i don't think anyone expected kespa players to play in the GSL yet.
if someone is dissappointed about this, i can't sympathize
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On August 23 2012 23:55 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:53 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:47 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:41 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:24 floor exercise wrote:On August 23 2012 23:21 Pimpmuckl wrote:
So basically:
GomTV lets their players play in the "KeSPA"-Tournaments. No problem here.
But KeSPA doesn't allow their players to even try out for GSL? I have _no_ idea why the hell would anyone say this is even remoty "good". The BW Legends stepped up their game SO much and i would have loved to see them compete at a GSL format.
Fuck this shit, why the hell would KeSPA do that, i'm really getting mad now. Because everyone is going crazy for Kespa players and no one gives a shit about Gom players. It's really that simple. There's nowhere that follows SC2 that isn't going crazy for Kespa players in the past few months. The only way a Gom player gets mentioned is if he loses to a Kespa player. So why would they just hand them out? They are in huge demand, a competitor simply says "okay same game give us your players" what would anyone say to that? Probably the dumbest post of the thread. People do go ape shit for guys like MC, DRG, MKP with all the exposure they receive and wins. At the last MLG with the KeSPA tournament people were pretty infatuated with the new kids on the block and when given the stage you could see a difference between your run of the mill Korean and them. They're performers. They understand that and likewise they give the crowd what they want. This is nothing really new to them either. Other than that yeah what floor said is really off the mark lol. I've been to several MLGs (including the recent Anaheim) and couple of European events (namely Dreamhack) and I can without a shadow of a doubt say, a lot of ppl "give a shit" about Gom players. Also, the Anaheim crowd completely embraced the Kespa players the SAME way they embraced MC, MMA, DRG, MKP and the like. To say no one "gives a shit about Gom players" is pretty stupid. The biggest tragedy in all of this is that KeSPA is still pretty archaic and stuck in its ways when they continue to fail to realize that the international audience is willing to support them but they're making it incredibly difficult to do so. I wasn't arguing against you bud. You don't need to support them directly. The only thing you have to do is support their players and from the looks of it lots of people do. The KeSPA players know how to get a crowd hollering.
Just because I responded to you doesn't mean I'm arguing against you. It's more of an extension of the discussion.
Unfortunately for KeSPA, their players won't be getting any crowds hollering at this point. Certainly not international nor GSL crowds that's for sure.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On August 24 2012 00:01 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:49 TheDougler wrote:On August 23 2012 23:33 ShadeR wrote:
Are people seriously inferring that Blizzard can MAKE them play??? LOL No but according to the TOS Blizzard can take away their ability to play SC2 if need be. IE, your players won't enter our tournament? They get blacklisted. It probably won't come to that, blizzard will likely say they're monitoring the situation carefully but if they don't enter te GSL soon they could take discretionary measures. You don't see anything wrong with. "Hey if you don't play in this tourney you get punished" Blizzard's vice grip around your balls is incredible. I admire this achievement.
similarly though it's "hey we know you want to play in this tourney, but you can't" from kespa
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On August 24 2012 00:01 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:53 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:45 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. Blizzard is counting on KeSPA to give the game more exposure in Korea. Their options are limited whereas KeSPA. Well, they have plenty of options. Blisard can deny them the right to run any tournament. Kespa can still do whatever BS they want, just without any broadcasting and such, and hence, zero profits. On August 23 2012 23:31 Forikorder wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. they dont have to argue anything, if they press a button KeSPA cant paly SC2 thats a fact Not just that. Considering Korea is, supposed to take US IP pretty seriously, the entire idea that goverment institution can infringe copyright just like that, wwould do terrible damage to Korea`s international relations. I'm sorry but you guys don't have a clue on what you're talking about and missed what I said entirely. KeSPA doesn't need Blizzard. Even if Blizzard could stop them from playing SC2. KeSPA would just bank on their other properties and give SC2 the backdoor. As we've seen before Blizzard believes they need KeSPA to pick up the slack in the Korean market. This is no different from the IP rights from before. In summary, even if Blizzard won the argument and no SC2 for KeSPA they would push their other tournaments and SC2 would hit another big wall in Korea. Not good for business. That's not to say the big guns retire/withdraw from their KeSPA teams and join other teams in SC2. The thing is you still lose exposure and the other developers along with KeSPA would do everything in their power to block SC2. Blizzard doesn't need Kespa either, the sc2 scene has been growing without them and will be without them. It's just that with Kespa involved it will probably go a lot faster like you said. And really Kespa isn't going to pull out now when they've invested so much money and effort into it already you don't just switch to a different game like it's nothing.
From everything Blizzard has done over the last couple of years? You can say they don't need them, but here's the catch. Blizzard wants them.
They are under the belief that KeSPA can speed up the process with their network.
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On August 23 2012 23:53 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:45 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. Blizzard is counting on KeSPA to give the game more exposure in Korea. Their options are limited whereas KeSPA. Well, they have plenty of options. Blisard can deny them the right to run any tournament. Kespa can still do whatever BS they want, just without any broadcasting and such, and hence, zero profits. On August 23 2012 23:31 Forikorder wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. they dont have to argue anything, if they press a button KeSPA cant paly SC2 thats a fact Not just that. Considering Korea is, supposed to take US IP pretty seriously, the entire idea that goverment institution can infringe copyright just like that, wwould do terrible damage to Korea`s international relations. I'm sorry but you guys don't have a clue on what you're talking about and missed what I said entirely. KeSPA doesn't need Blizzard. Even if Blizzard could stop them from playing SC2. KeSPA would just bank on their other properties and give SC2 the backdoor. As we've seen before Blizzard believes they need KeSPA to pick up the slack in the Korean market. This is no different from the IP rights from before. In summary, even if Blizzard won the argument and no SC2 for KeSPA they would push their other tournaments and SC2 would hit another big wall in Korea. Not good for business. That's not to say the big guns retire/withdraw from their KeSPA teams and join other teams in SC2. The thing is you still lose exposure and the other developers along with KeSPA would do everything in their power to block SC2.
if KeSPA doesnt need SC2 whyd theybg blizz to let them play it?
KeSPA needs SC2 or theyll get no new palyers and the organization dies, Blizzard doesnt need KesPA they can wait
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On August 24 2012 00:03 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 00:01 RvB wrote:On August 23 2012 23:53 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:45 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. Blizzard is counting on KeSPA to give the game more exposure in Korea. Their options are limited whereas KeSPA. Well, they have plenty of options. Blisard can deny them the right to run any tournament. Kespa can still do whatever BS they want, just without any broadcasting and such, and hence, zero profits. On August 23 2012 23:31 Forikorder wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. they dont have to argue anything, if they press a button KeSPA cant paly SC2 thats a fact Not just that. Considering Korea is, supposed to take US IP pretty seriously, the entire idea that goverment institution can infringe copyright just like that, wwould do terrible damage to Korea`s international relations. I'm sorry but you guys don't have a clue on what you're talking about and missed what I said entirely. KeSPA doesn't need Blizzard. Even if Blizzard could stop them from playing SC2. KeSPA would just bank on their other properties and give SC2 the backdoor. As we've seen before Blizzard believes they need KeSPA to pick up the slack in the Korean market. This is no different from the IP rights from before. In summary, even if Blizzard won the argument and no SC2 for KeSPA they would push their other tournaments and SC2 would hit another big wall in Korea. Not good for business. That's not to say the big guns retire/withdraw from their KeSPA teams and join other teams in SC2. The thing is you still lose exposure and the other developers along with KeSPA would do everything in their power to block SC2. Blizzard doesn't need Kespa either, the sc2 scene has been growing without them and will be without them. It's just that with Kespa involved it will probably go a lot faster like you said. And really Kespa isn't going to pull out now when they've invested so much money and effort into it already you don't just switch to a different game like it's nothing. From everything Blizzard has done over the last couple of years? You can say they don't need them, but here's the catch. Blizzard wants them. They are under the belief that KeSPA can speed up the process with their network.
And Kespa wants sc2 otherwise they wouldn't be trying to transition it's a mutual beneficial relationship that neither of them are willing to break easily.
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If Kespa continues with this policy, and let's say even forbids its players participation in international tournaments, I can see a massive exodus from Kespa teams to international teams. Maybe law cases, terminations of contracts etc. There should be a measure on how much you can limit someone's freedom.
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what you guys dont understand is that PL>all for these players/teams. if they went to all the random tournaments they wouldn't be able to play on such a high level.
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On August 24 2012 00:02 GoonFFS wrote:
this isn't really news at all. i don't think anyone expected kespa players to play in the GSL yet.
if someone is dissappointed about this, i can't sympathize
People absolutely did expect it. Especially after every single KeSPA player interviewed about it expressed a strong desire to play in the GSL qualifiers. Of course, their desires mean shit atm.
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On August 23 2012 23:47 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:41 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:24 floor exercise wrote:On August 23 2012 23:21 Pimpmuckl wrote:
So basically:
GomTV lets their players play in the "KeSPA"-Tournaments. No problem here.
But KeSPA doesn't allow their players to even try out for GSL? I have _no_ idea why the hell would anyone say this is even remoty "good". The BW Legends stepped up their game SO much and i would have loved to see them compete at a GSL format.
Fuck this shit, why the hell would KeSPA do that, i'm really getting mad now. Because everyone is going crazy for Kespa players and no one gives a shit about Gom players. It's really that simple. There's nowhere that follows SC2 that isn't going crazy for Kespa players in the past few months. The only way a Gom player gets mentioned is if he loses to a Kespa player. So why would they just hand them out? They are in huge demand, a competitor simply says "okay same game give us your players" what would anyone say to that? Probably the dumbest post of the thread. People do go ape shit for guys like MC, DRG, MKP with all the exposure they receive and wins. At the last MLG with the KeSPA tournament people were pretty infatuated with the new kids on the block and when given the stage you could see a difference between your run of the mill Korean and them. They're performers. They understand that and likewise they give the crowd what they want. This is nothing really new to them either. Other than that yeah what floor said is really off the mark lol.
The way I see it...
People are going apeshit about KeSPA players and GOM player who do well or those who are great characters/entertainers. Nobody give a shit about under-performing GOM and KeSPA players.
Hasn't this alway the case.. The winners and the characters/entertainers get the glory, the rest are in the shadows until they have a break-out/memorable moment.
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On August 24 2012 00:02 DrakeFZX3 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:55 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:53 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:47 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:41 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:24 floor exercise wrote:On August 23 2012 23:21 Pimpmuckl wrote:
So basically:
GomTV lets their players play in the "KeSPA"-Tournaments. No problem here.
But KeSPA doesn't allow their players to even try out for GSL? I have _no_ idea why the hell would anyone say this is even remoty "good". The BW Legends stepped up their game SO much and i would have loved to see them compete at a GSL format.
Fuck this shit, why the hell would KeSPA do that, i'm really getting mad now. Because everyone is going crazy for Kespa players and no one gives a shit about Gom players. It's really that simple. There's nowhere that follows SC2 that isn't going crazy for Kespa players in the past few months. The only way a Gom player gets mentioned is if he loses to a Kespa player. So why would they just hand them out? They are in huge demand, a competitor simply says "okay same game give us your players" what would anyone say to that? Probably the dumbest post of the thread. People do go ape shit for guys like MC, DRG, MKP with all the exposure they receive and wins. At the last MLG with the KeSPA tournament people were pretty infatuated with the new kids on the block and when given the stage you could see a difference between your run of the mill Korean and them. They're performers. They understand that and likewise they give the crowd what they want. This is nothing really new to them either. Other than that yeah what floor said is really off the mark lol. I've been to several MLGs (including the recent Anaheim) and couple of European events (namely Dreamhack) and I can without a shadow of a doubt say, a lot of ppl "give a shit" about Gom players. Also, the Anaheim crowd completely embraced the Kespa players the SAME way they embraced MC, MMA, DRG, MKP and the like. To say no one "gives a shit about Gom players" is pretty stupid. The biggest tragedy in all of this is that KeSPA is still pretty archaic and stuck in its ways when they continue to fail to realize that the international audience is willing to support them but they're making it incredibly difficult to do so. I wasn't arguing against you bud. You don't need to support them directly. The only thing you have to do is support their players and from the looks of it lots of people do. The KeSPA players know how to get a crowd hollering. Just because I responded to you doesn't mean I'm arguing against you. It's more of an extension of the discussion. Unfortunately for KeSPA, their players won't be getting any crowds hollering at this point. Certainly not international nor GSL crowds that's for sure.
They aren't directly tied. We've seen countless no-no's by KeSPA and judging from how the international fanbase has treated them at the last MLG as well as other international events before SC2. People want to see these players. They don't directly tie their cheers to KeSPA at all. The cheers are for the players and the fans understand this.
We don't even have to peel away the layers. What you see is what you get. People might not be a fan of KeSPA but they most certainly are a fan of the players.
How can you not like a guy like Leta?
Even if we looked at the layers, the players have no say as I pointed out before so there's not much substance to you saying people will start booing them.
You can boo KeSPA all you want though.
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On August 24 2012 00:03 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 00:01 RvB wrote:On August 23 2012 23:53 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:45 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. Blizzard is counting on KeSPA to give the game more exposure in Korea. Their options are limited whereas KeSPA. Well, they have plenty of options. Blisard can deny them the right to run any tournament. Kespa can still do whatever BS they want, just without any broadcasting and such, and hence, zero profits. On August 23 2012 23:31 Forikorder wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. they dont have to argue anything, if they press a button KeSPA cant paly SC2 thats a fact Not just that. Considering Korea is, supposed to take US IP pretty seriously, the entire idea that goverment institution can infringe copyright just like that, wwould do terrible damage to Korea`s international relations. I'm sorry but you guys don't have a clue on what you're talking about and missed what I said entirely. KeSPA doesn't need Blizzard. Even if Blizzard could stop them from playing SC2. KeSPA would just bank on their other properties and give SC2 the backdoor. As we've seen before Blizzard believes they need KeSPA to pick up the slack in the Korean market. This is no different from the IP rights from before. In summary, even if Blizzard won the argument and no SC2 for KeSPA they would push their other tournaments and SC2 would hit another big wall in Korea. Not good for business. That's not to say the big guns retire/withdraw from their KeSPA teams and join other teams in SC2. The thing is you still lose exposure and the other developers along with KeSPA would do everything in their power to block SC2. Blizzard doesn't need Kespa either, the sc2 scene has been growing without them and will be without them. It's just that with Kespa involved it will probably go a lot faster like you said. And really Kespa isn't going to pull out now when they've invested so much money and effort into it already you don't just switch to a different game like it's nothing. From everything Blizzard has done over the last couple of years? You can say they don't need them, but here's the catch. Blizzard wants them. They are under the belief that KeSPA can speed up the process with their network.
Agreed.
But you're assuming KeSPA doesn't need Blizzard. Technically they don't. But they have signed contracts with a lot of progamers who are making big money playing BW (and now SC2) - while the skills aren't directly transferable they are close, making it good showings for the fans (and hence beneficial for the sponsor teams). Do you see them playing LoL? Not really.
So I'd argue both sides need each other a lot. Blizzard needs KeSPA to gain legitimacy in the Korean market. KeSPA needs Blizzard or else they're going to be trying to go back to BW (which would look really bad) or have a bunch of highly paid progamers with nothing to do.
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Much ado about nothing. Kespa has SPL and OSL going on, and still has players in WCS. They don't exactly need GSL. I don't really see the big deal.
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EPT
