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On August 23 2012 23:41 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:37 ShadeR wrote:On August 23 2012 23:36 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 23 2012 23:33 ShadeR wrote:
Are people seriously inferring that Blizzard can MAKE them play??? LOL The players want to play, all that needs to be done is "make" Kespa to allow the players to do what they want in this matter. Players follow the will of the team. The teams ARE KeSPA Maybe stuff like this is why Stork and Boxer wanted a player's union.
It is. Stork was particularly unhappy about the manner in which the transition to SC2 was made. Several of his teamates (younger brothers) ended up retiring.
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Standard Kespa... I'm seriously sick there are still ppl defending it. -.-
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The only people happy about this decision are the GSL players. No increase in competition, same money.
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On August 23 2012 23:33 ShadeR wrote:
Are people seriously inferring that Blizzard can MAKE them play??? LOL
No but according to the TOS Blizzard can take away their ability to play SC2 if need be. IE, your players won't enter our tournament? They get blacklisted.
It probably won't come to that, blizzard will likely say they're monitoring the situation carefully but if they don't enter te GSL soon they could take discretionary measures.
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opterown
Australia54749 Posts
On August 23 2012 23:48 niteReloaded wrote:
The only people happy about this decision are the GSL players. No increase in competition, same money.
LOL true i guess, although alternatively if the GSL players actually are better than KeSPA players generally, then they should be happy that 2 spots in Code S, 2 spots in Up/Down and 4 spots in Code A are W/O
I think ESF players will get over the vs. KeSPA player fright soon too.
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On August 23 2012 23:49 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:33 ShadeR wrote:
Are people seriously inferring that Blizzard can MAKE them play??? LOL No but according to the TOS Blizzard can take away their ability to play SC2 if need be. IE, your players won't enter our tournament? They get blacklisted. It probably won't come to that, blizzard will likely say they're monitoring the situation carefully but if they don't enter te GSL soon they could take discretionary measures.
whatever there announcing its bigger then "were monitoring the situation" if that was all then they wouldnt announce that there making an announcement theyd just announce it
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On August 23 2012 23:50 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:49 TheDougler wrote:On August 23 2012 23:33 ShadeR wrote:
Are people seriously inferring that Blizzard can MAKE them play??? LOL No but according to the TOS Blizzard can take away their ability to play SC2 if need be. IE, your players won't enter our tournament? They get blacklisted. It probably won't come to that, blizzard will likely say they're monitoring the situation carefully but if they don't enter te GSL soon they could take discretionary measures. whatever there announcing its bigger then "were monitoring the situation" if that was all then they wouldnt announce that there making an announcement theyd just announce it
Perhaps they are just "monitoring the situation" as they said?
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On August 23 2012 23:41 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:27 MVTaylor wrote:
@Salazarz On my phone so I can't quote, message too large and no scroll ability in reply box.
The essence though is that it isn't kespa teams limiting themselves it's kespa denying players the right to enter to strengthen leagues they have more control over, all be it with some really awful reasoning given instead. The problem with this line of reasoning is that it assumes that individual kespa players normally get to decide such things for themselves, and are suddenly being denied the right to do that. Whereas it's actually normal for the teams (and Kespa as the association of teams+broadcasters) to make such decisions, not the players. A Kespa team simply won't tell a player to go do whatever he wants and play in any league he wants. That's NEVER going to happen. In order for Kespa players to be able to play in the GSL, the team has to come to the players and say "ok, GSL is now in our schedule, here's the schedule by which we're going to work the next month" or something of the sort. I'm not saying that the Kespa's interests as a team association didn't play a role in the decision, but there are definitely more practical issues as well. The important thing to realize is that these players actually belong to the teams and the way they spend their time and what they spend it on is also organized by the teams.
KeSPA internal interests have everything to do with it. The "players already have enough to do" is total shit. There's less Proleague, less OSL, no MSL. It would be in GOM's best interest to schedule in such a way that the KeSPA players' schedules aren't conflicted with anything they already do. If MC and others can travel to three different continents in two weeks then KeSPA players can devote two hours a week to play in another tournament.
And it has already been established that players and coaches want their players to practice against GSL players as they believe they best improve doing that. This is nothing but a political decision.
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Too many leagues.
Kespa was for BW.This is SC2 ie. cancel Kespa no point for it to exist.
They are not doing this for the benefit of players,they want more money,this is just a pressure.
Money ruins things...
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I think it is silly that Kespa wont't let player try for Code A, I'm sure there are a few guys on each team that would do very well at these if given the chance. Plus it'll help to increase the relationship within Korea...
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On August 23 2012 23:47 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:41 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:24 floor exercise wrote:On August 23 2012 23:21 Pimpmuckl wrote:
So basically:
GomTV lets their players play in the "KeSPA"-Tournaments. No problem here.
But KeSPA doesn't allow their players to even try out for GSL? I have _no_ idea why the hell would anyone say this is even remoty "good". The BW Legends stepped up their game SO much and i would have loved to see them compete at a GSL format.
Fuck this shit, why the hell would KeSPA do that, i'm really getting mad now. Because everyone is going crazy for Kespa players and no one gives a shit about Gom players. It's really that simple. There's nowhere that follows SC2 that isn't going crazy for Kespa players in the past few months. The only way a Gom player gets mentioned is if he loses to a Kespa player. So why would they just hand them out? They are in huge demand, a competitor simply says "okay same game give us your players" what would anyone say to that? Probably the dumbest post of the thread. People do go ape shit for guys like MC, DRG, MKP with all the exposure they receive and wins. At the last MLG with the KeSPA tournament people were pretty infatuated with the new kids on the block and when given the stage you could see a difference between your run of the mill Korean and them. They're performers. They understand that and likewise they give the crowd what they want. This is nothing really new to them either. Other than that yeah what floor said is really off the mark lol.
I've been to several MLGs (including the recent Anaheim) and couple of European events (namely Dreamhack) and I can without a shadow of a doubt say, a lot of ppl "give a shit" about Gom players. Also, the Anaheim crowd completely embraced the Kespa players the SAME way they embraced MC, MMA, DRG, MKP and the like.
To say no one "gives a shit about Gom players" is pretty stupid.
The biggest tragedy in all of this is that KeSPA is still pretty archaic and stuck in its ways when they continue to fail to realize that the international audience is willing to support them but they're making it incredibly difficult to do so.
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On August 23 2012 23:45 naastyOne wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. Blizzard is counting on KeSPA to give the game more exposure in Korea. Their options are limited whereas KeSPA. Well, they have plenty of options. Blisard can deny them the right to run any tournament. Kespa can still do whatever BS they want, just without any broadcasting and such, and hence, zero profits. Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:31 Forikorder wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. they dont have to argue anything, if they press a button KeSPA cant paly SC2 thats a fact Not just that. Considering Korea is, supposed to take US IP pretty seriously, the entire idea that goverment institution can infringe copyright just like that, wwould do terrible damage to Korea`s international relations.
I'm sorry but you guys don't have a clue on what you're talking about and missed what I said entirely.
KeSPA doesn't need Blizzard. Even if Blizzard could stop them from playing SC2. KeSPA would just bank on their other properties and give SC2 the backdoor.
As we've seen before Blizzard believes they need KeSPA to pick up the slack in the Korean market. This is no different from the IP rights from before.
In summary, even if Blizzard won the argument and no SC2 for KeSPA they would push their other tournaments and SC2 would hit another big wall in Korea.
Not good for business.
That's not to say the big guns retire/withdraw from their KeSPA teams and join other teams in SC2. The thing is you still lose exposure and the other developers along with KeSPA would do everything in their power to block SC2.
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Seems strange and largely self righteousness than actual passion for justice if kespa run events havent had anyone pay for them yet but people are saying they wont give a cent to them? Its an easy thing to say when you never planned to or ever had to pay to begin with
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On August 23 2012 23:53 DrakeFZX3 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:47 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:41 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:24 floor exercise wrote:On August 23 2012 23:21 Pimpmuckl wrote:
So basically:
GomTV lets their players play in the "KeSPA"-Tournaments. No problem here.
But KeSPA doesn't allow their players to even try out for GSL? I have _no_ idea why the hell would anyone say this is even remoty "good". The BW Legends stepped up their game SO much and i would have loved to see them compete at a GSL format.
Fuck this shit, why the hell would KeSPA do that, i'm really getting mad now. Because everyone is going crazy for Kespa players and no one gives a shit about Gom players. It's really that simple. There's nowhere that follows SC2 that isn't going crazy for Kespa players in the past few months. The only way a Gom player gets mentioned is if he loses to a Kespa player. So why would they just hand them out? They are in huge demand, a competitor simply says "okay same game give us your players" what would anyone say to that? Probably the dumbest post of the thread. People do go ape shit for guys like MC, DRG, MKP with all the exposure they receive and wins. At the last MLG with the KeSPA tournament people were pretty infatuated with the new kids on the block and when given the stage you could see a difference between your run of the mill Korean and them. They're performers. They understand that and likewise they give the crowd what they want. This is nothing really new to them either. Other than that yeah what floor said is really off the mark lol. I've been to several MLGs (including the recent Anaheim) and couple of European events (namely Dreamhack) and I can without a shadow of a doubt say, a lot of ppl "give a shit" about Gom players. Also, the Anaheim crowd completely embraced the Kespa players the SAME way they embraced MC, MMA, DRG, MKP and the like. To say no one "gives a shit about Gom players" is pretty stupid. The biggest tragedy in all of this is that KeSPA is still pretty archaic and stuck in its ways when they continue to fail to realize that the international audience is willing to support them but they're making it incredibly difficult to do so.
I wasn't arguing against you bud. You don't need to support them directly. The only thing you have to do is support their players and from the looks of it lots of people do.
The KeSPA players know how to get a crowd hollering.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Kespa always does whatever the fuck it wants to do, regardless of what anyone thinks, even their own players. Not sure if this is a genuine schedule/fatigue problem, or they're trying some kind of power play. Even if it is the former, they still could've allowed progamers (with free schedule) to make their own minds up. Oh well, it's not exactly news that they run a tight ship.
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Not to be a dick, but from what I've seen the Kespa players aren't good enough to win in the GSL anyway. Again, I really don't mean to start a flame war or insult anyone but I am quite sure that Kespa is worried that their players would get trounced - its hard to get super good at SC2 when you haven't had nearly enough time to do so. About a month ago I watch Jaedong nearly lose to Kawaiirice on his stream. However, I do hope to see Flash and Jaedong play against more familiar faces soon, and this is going to prevent me from doing so. Blast!
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Kespa are the bad guys from our perspective, but their moves will likely get the job done.
OSL will be THE league to play & watch within months, like I predicted a few months ago. They know what they're doing.
On August 23 2012 23:56 TheFish7 wrote:
Not to be a dick, but from what I've seen the Kespa players aren't good enough to win in the GSL anyway. Again, I really don't mean to start a flame war or insult anyone but I am quite sure that Kespa is worried that their players would get trounced - its hard to get super good at SC2 when you haven't had nearly enough time to do so. About a month ago I watch Jaedong nearly lose to Kawaiirice on his stream. However, I do hope to see Flash and Jaedong play against more familiar faces soon, and this is going to prevent me from doing so. Blast!
The bigshots from Kespa are getting better and better with each hour of practice, and with what they've shown so far with the rate of improvement, I don't think anyone doubts they'll be fighting toe to toe for all the biggest titles in the SC2 world within months.
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On August 23 2012 23:53 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:45 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. Blizzard is counting on KeSPA to give the game more exposure in Korea. Their options are limited whereas KeSPA. Well, they have plenty of options. Blisard can deny them the right to run any tournament. Kespa can still do whatever BS they want, just without any broadcasting and such, and hence, zero profits. On August 23 2012 23:31 Forikorder wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. they dont have to argue anything, if they press a button KeSPA cant paly SC2 thats a fact Not just that. Considering Korea is, supposed to take US IP pretty seriously, the entire idea that goverment institution can infringe copyright just like that, wwould do terrible damage to Korea`s international relations. I'm sorry but you guys don't have a clue on what you're talking about and missed what I said entirely. KeSPA doesn't need Blizzard. Even if Blizzard could stop them from playing SC2. KeSPA would just bank on their other properties and give SC2 the backdoor. As we've seen before Blizzard believes they need KeSPA to pick up the slack in the Korean market. This is no different from the IP rights from before. In summary, even if Blizzard won the argument and no SC2 for KeSPA they would push their other tournaments and SC2 would hit another big wall in Korea. Not good for business. That's not to say the big guns retire/withdraw from their KeSPA teams and join other teams in SC2. The thing is you still lose exposure and the other developers along with KeSPA would do everything in their power to block SC2.
I know you are just speculating, but what you described is a lose-lose situation for everyone: players, Kespa, Blizz, fans.
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On August 23 2012 23:53 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:45 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. Blizzard is counting on KeSPA to give the game more exposure in Korea. Their options are limited whereas KeSPA. Well, they have plenty of options. Blisard can deny them the right to run any tournament. Kespa can still do whatever BS they want, just without any broadcasting and such, and hence, zero profits. On August 23 2012 23:31 Forikorder wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. they dont have to argue anything, if they press a button KeSPA cant paly SC2 thats a fact Not just that. Considering Korea is, supposed to take US IP pretty seriously, the entire idea that goverment institution can infringe copyright just like that, wwould do terrible damage to Korea`s international relations. I'm sorry but you guys don't have a clue on what you're talking about and missed what I said entirely. KeSPA doesn't need Blizzard. Even if Blizzard could stop them from playing SC2. KeSPA would just bank on their other properties and give SC2 the backdoor. As we've seen before Blizzard believes they need KeSPA to pick up the slack in the Korean market. This is no different from the IP rights from before. In summary, even if Blizzard won the argument and no SC2 for KeSPA they would push their other tournaments and SC2 would hit another big wall in Korea. Not good for business. That's not to say the big guns retire/withdraw from their KeSPA teams and join other teams in SC2. The thing is you still lose exposure and the other developers along with KeSPA would do everything in their power to block SC2.
They both need each other. If KeSPA gives SC2 the backdoor, as you've put it, they would basically destroy one of their biggest money making assets in their Starcraft brand. Can you imagine the outrage if KeSPA closes down all 8 of their Starcraft teams in Korea? The players can certainly go to other teams at that point and KeSPA will have essentially lost their golden goose.
There's a mutual benefit to be had here and KeSPA is having a hard time adapting to the current scene.
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On August 23 2012 23:54 GreyKnight wrote:
Seems strange and largely self righteousness than actual passion for justice if kespa run events havent had anyone pay for them yet but people are saying they wont give a cent to them? Its an easy thing to say when you never planned to or ever had to pay to begin with
If brood war had a large enough foreign following do you really think that klazart would have been able to commentate games? or that Nanashin would have been able to re stream?
If ogn is starting to charge people money for their lol stream then i think that sort of answers my question.
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